“Truth? You can't handle the truth!”

[GoGilesGo]

Temperature has risen in here a bit so I'm reluctant to post this but...

Russell Brand - right-wing propagandist

Brand was a big draw at both Occupy New York and Occupy Westminster; led the New Era protests; endorsed (and interviewed) Ed Milliband in 2015; was courted by Billy Bragg; described as a hero of the year by George Monbiot; welcomed Corbyn's election as Labour leader; "Marx was a great economist; Communism wasn't done properly" on Joe Rogan; "Socialism's historical connection with spiritual principles is deep" in the New Statesman; front cover blurb for Owen Jones' book The Establishment; and was until a few days ago, set to be a contributor to Corbyn and McClusky's upcoming poetry book.

Not sure I'd call him a right winger

[The Legendary Shark]

Structural engineers. (You might need to use a TOR browser or VPN to access this link.)

[JayzusB.Christ]

Structural engineers. (You might need to use a TOR browser or VPN to access this link.)

Just to clarify: Do you genuinely believe that 9/11 was an inside job or not? Or if you're somewhere in between, which do you think is more probable?

[Hawkmumbler]

Another successful example of what I have come to term 'The Chum & Switch" where Shark either overtly or (more likely) vaguely yet not so subtly implies an argument for one things (apparently in this instance deep state agents are paradropping into Maui to kidnap up to a thousand children to ensnare into indentured sex work) and when he gets push back dials it back to being apparently about an entirely different matter(s) and leans on a wobbly understanding of clauses and shady web links.

Must be a day ending in Y.

[GordonR]

Not sure I'd call him a right winger

Then you've not been paying attention.

Recent guests on his podcast include Republican presidential candidate crazies Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy, right-wing crazy agitator Candace Owens and perennial right-wing snake oil salesman Jordan Peterson.

As far as I know, he doesn't host any similar figures from the left.

No matter where he was 10 years ago, he's now firmly entrenched in the GB News/conspiracy theory end of the spectrum, because, frankly, that's where the easy Scam Money is.

And, let's say, you were a devious and manipulative narcissist who knew you had done a bunch of nasty shit that was going to catch up with you one day? Well, that market comes ready with a mass of rubes and apologists who'll come charging out at the first mention of MeToo or 'cancel culture' to defend you.

[GordonR]

Another successful example of what I have come to term 'The Chum & Switch" where Shark either overtly or (more likely) vaguely yet not so subtly implies an argument for one things (apparently in this instance deep state agents are paradropping into Maui to kidnap up to a thousand children to ensnare into indentured sex work) and when he gets push back dials it back to being apparently about an entirely different matter(s) and leans on a wobbly understanding of clauses and shady web links.

Must be a day ending in Y.

All very true.

However, his current descent into Poundshop QAnon drivel - "1000s of fictional children are missing, and all we want to talk about is a prominent conspiracy theorist sexual predator!" - is quite something.

[The Legendary Shark]

Structural engineers. (You might need to use a TOR browser or VPN to access this link.)

Just to clarify: Do you genuinely believe that 9/11 was an inside job or not? Or if you're somewhere in between, which do you think is more probable?

I honestly don't know what happened, only that many elements of the official story don't seem to add up. "Inside job" is, I think, too simplistic an explanation because it implies that "the government" (all those thousands and thousands of people) planned and executed the whole thing whilst keeping it quiet, which is patently impossible. Were elements of government involved? I think so. Elements of banking and corporations? Yes, I think so.

[GoGilesGo]

Then you've not been paying attention.

very true, not been on my radar for a long time.

And, let's say, you were a devious and manipulative narcissist who knew you had done a bunch of nasty shit that was going to catch up with you one day? Well, that market comes ready with a mass of rubes and apologists who'll come charging out at the first mention of MeToo or 'cancel culture' to defend you.

Similar allegations made in 2015 and at that time the likes of Marina Hyde, James O Brian and Charlie Brooker came riding to his defense. Partisan bias going both ways.

[M.I.K.]

Similar allegations made in 2015 and at that time the likes of Marina Hyde, James O Brian and Charlie Brooker came riding to his defense. Partisan bias going both ways.

I don't remember that. What was being said back then?

[GoGilesGo]

I don't remember that. What was being said back then?

excuse the link to the Mail.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3065667/Russell-Brand-misogynist-hurt-abused-says-ex-girlfriend-labels-Ed-Miliband-fool-getting-bed-him.html

[JayzusB.Christ]

Structural engineers. (You might need to use a TOR browser or VPN to access this link.)

Just to clarify: Do you genuinely believe that 9/11 was an inside job or not? Or if you're somewhere in between, which do you think is more probable?

I honestly don't know what happened, only that many elements of the official story don't seem to add up. "Inside job" is, I think, too simplistic an explanation because it implies that "the government" (all those thousands and thousands of people) planned and executed the whole thing whilst keeping it quiet, which is patently impossible. Were elements of government involved? I think so. Elements of banking and corporations? Yes, I think so.

So, more likely orchestrated by people in the US government and western businesses than by religious extremists?

[Funt Solo]

Temperature has risen in here a bit so I'm reluctant to post this but...

Russell Brand - right-wing propagandist

Brand was a big draw at both Occupy New York and Occupy Westminster; led the New Era protests; endorsed (and interviewed) Ed Milliband in 2015; was courted by Billy Bragg; described as a hero of the year by George Monbiot; welcomed Corbyn's election as Labour leader; "Marx was a great economist; Communism wasn't done properly" on Joe Rogan; "Socialism's historical connection with spiritual principles is deep" in the New Statesman; front cover blurb for Owen Jones' book The Establishment; and was until a few days ago, set to be a contributor to Corbyn and McClusky's upcoming poetry book.

Not sure I'd call him a right winger

I absolutely take your point - and nobody likes to be gaslit. If you could stand to read back a page or so in the thread you'll find where JayzusB.Christ was posting a similar experience of him - and I provided some context. To be absolutely clear - I have had moments of being vaguely fond of him (as a media personality), and of agreeing with the words coming out of his mouth. But in small doses, and a long time ago.

Given all the evidence on offer - I have to come to the conclusion that I have no idea at all what Russell Brand really thinks (recall he also had a "don't vote it's a waste of time" moment), and perhaps neither does he.

But, if you look at his YouTube page (and I don't recommend it, for all love) you can clearly see the audience he's currently pandering to.

---

Regarding the sexual assault claims, I'm not following an argument that says "he was accused of this sort of thing before so it can't be true now", but hopefully nobody was making that point and we can all breath a sigh of relief.

(It's also true that people are complicated, so you have folk who will be "that's not the man I know" while at the same time having people saying "that man raped me" or "that man sexually assaulted me". One hopes and assumes the latter camp is the smaller set.)

[Funt Solo]

William Hurt: actor, wife-beater, structural engineer. Hear him!

Ad-hominem attack to avoid dealing with the film he produced.

Attack? I listed his qualities and said "hear him". Next you'll be telling me he wasn't a structural engineer.

Structural engineers. (You might need to use a TOR browser or VPN to access this link.)

So, he wasn't really a structural engineer? If he wasn't, then that brings into question my entire understanding of the whole cover up! I'm calling a fucking ++LAMBDA ALERT++!

Stamping this one for the higher echelons by invoking the big Q:

?

[The Legendary Shark]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3065667/Russell-Brand-misogynist-hurt-abused-says-ex-girlfriend-labels-Ed-Miliband-fool-getting-bed-him.html

That's a compelling and illuminating article.

For my part, I never paid much attention to him. I haven't watched broadcast t.v. for years and take no interest in celebrity gossip and all that concomitant crap, and so he really never entered into my sphere of interest. I've watched a few of his Facetube videos and found them to be entertaining and amusing, but he wasn't really saying anything new or unique. I think he did a good job of getting the general ideas out to a certain demographic but, being in the demographic of (apparently) dumb-ass nutjobs, I prefer more sober content from people actually doing the investigating in real time; other dumb-ass nutjobs like Corbett, Christian and the like. I didn't pay much attention to Brand for the same reasons I don't pay much attention to Alex Jones (who, I nevertheless think, also does a good job in his own way) - sensationalism and rabble-rousing. I like my crazy-ass conspiracy bollocks to highlight what needs fixing, not what needs destroying, what brings us together rather than what drives us apart, our similarities rather than our differences.

This article puts Brand into a different light, for me. The "messiah complex" statement strikes the biggest chord in the context of the crazy-ass conspiracy world I inhabit. It strikes me now that maybe Brand was using the things other people uncovered simply as a vehicle to feed his own narcissism, like some crooked televangelist praising God* as a means to an end. Maybe I'm wrong, but this is how I'm thinking at the moment. As far as I know, he never actually uncovered anything himself but simply jazzed-up the work of others. And, no matter what you might think of them, many of those other researchers (the few I follow amongst them) do a lot of work and approach each topic on its own merits. Of course they have biases, we all do, and mistrust "the authorities" while placing more trust in authorities in their fields. But then, it wouldn't make any sense at all for people who trust in the authorities and think governments and corporations are largely a force for good to be constantly analysing and criticising their flaws, would it? But whatever his motivations, Brand has encouraged more and more people to look at the more serious end of the crazy-ass conspiracy world - which I, for one, welcome.

I didn't fall down the crazy-ass conspiracy rabbit hole until 2007, when I first became aware of WTC7. That led me to other anomalies; the indestructible terrorist passport, highly suspicious and suggestive stock-market activity, Operation Able Danger, and so on and on. The world literally shifted before me, like suddenly getting the technique for viewing those magic eye pictures. And it was scary. Terrifying, in fact.

See, I was once just like Funt and GRennie and Hawkie and Pops. I believed in the system, more or less, knowing it had flaws but also knowing that we needed it and should largely trust it. Even Tony Blair's 45 minute WMD debacle didn't dent my overall trust in the system, because the system's full of good people trying to do the right thing, right? Even when some tw*t we couldn't get rid of for at least four years rose to power, my overall faith in the system was unshaken. I watched Newsnight and Panorama and Horizon and I knew what was what. I could shout ineffectually at Question Time with the best of them. I knew what was going on. I was informed. I was smart. I joined in to shout down the crazy-ass conspiracy nutters in Yahoo Chat.

And then, quite suddenly, I was that nutter. Scary, like I said.

Then came my run-in with the authorities and much of what I had learned about the true nature of things was revealed to me personally as more than just online theory. I lost everything (my beloved Progs! I still mourn for them) but gained a new strength.

So, from personal experience, I can say that a shift in perspective hits people hard. If Russell Brand had been there when I first fell in, I think I might have been enamoured by him, made to feel less alone, even validated. On the campsite we get people from all over the country, and many from surprisingly far-flung locations around the world, and I've noticed a definite upsurge of mistrust for the system in the last three years. Some of them have seen and are either angry or afraid, more often both, and I think Brand, whatever his motivations, helps a fair percentage of those people. I guess he softens the blow.

This is not, of course, a defence of Brand's alleged behaviour. Let the truth out on that one, though this article, and its timing, do add weight I will still defend his right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty.

TL;DR

Good article, thanks.




*Not that I'm equating crazy-ass conspiracy theories to the Word of God, of course - just using certain content to push a personal agenda.

[The Legendary Shark]

Structural engineers. (You might need to use a TOR browser or VPN to access this link.)

Just to clarify: Do you genuinely believe that 9/11 was an inside job or not? Or if you're somewhere in between, which do you think is more probable?

I honestly don't know what happened, only that many elements of the official story don't seem to add up. "Inside job" is, I think, too simplistic an explanation because it implies that "the government" (all those thousands and thousands of people) planned and executed the whole thing whilst keeping it quiet, which is patently impossible. Were elements of government involved? I think so. Elements of banking and corporations? Yes, I think so.

So, more likely orchestrated by people in the US government and western businesses than by religious extremists?

Not necessarily orchestrated. For me, I'm beginning to think it's more about masses of different agendas, philosophies and ideas - the tides in human affairs, if you will - flowing through time. Parts of it appear planned, I think, but I don't think it was any one group of cigar-smoking villains in a Bavarian castle orchestrating every aspect. Nor do I think it was orchestrated by Bush, Bin Laden, or Bad Bob Booth. I think that it's a confluence of agendas, each organising its own little part for mutual benefit or taking advantage of the situation for the same reason. In a fantasy conversation, "All you have to do is authorise the Abel Danger Drill, Mr President - our partners will take care of the rest." Ha. Maybe.

The long and the short of it is, I don't know what happened or who's ultimately or collectively responsible. I do find it hard to believe that a paper and plastic bog-standard passport would survive a five-hundred mile-an-hour plane crash into a concrete and steel skyscraper, the ensuing one-thousand degrees C fireball, and the collapse of a five-hundred-thousand ton building almost completely unscathed, and that no fewer than three buildings, within the same location and the span of a few hours, collapsed into their own footprints in a symmetrical manner (despite asymmetrical damage) never seen before or since - except under very specific conditions.

That's where it starts, looking at the little details that don't add up. Just a few, probably a coincidence, sure - but the more coincidences and connections you see, the less it looks like what the official story says it is. Just because I don't have a counter-theory doesn't make my assertion wrong. All we can do sat on our asses staring at computer screens is look at the presented evidence. What we do after that is up to the individual. Just have a look at Peace, War, and 9/11 and see what you think. I'd be genuinely interested to read your thoughts.