The Political Thread

[Jim_Campbell]

Sorry let's make this more sarcastic:

To be clear: I am not suggesting that The Gays should have a homogenous opinion on anything, any more than The Blacks or The Whites or The Straights, and fuck you in the eye if you were suggesting otherwise, Owen, because that's a cheap fucking shot.

I was/am simply baffled by the fact that a disproportionate number of my friends on social media (and in real life, now that I think about it) who actively espouse a political stance that I would consider right-wing, up to and including voting UKIP, are gay. I would struggle to support a party of any persuasion if a fundamental part of their platform was the active denigration, the vilification, of a basic part of my identity. It seems to me that there's a cognitive dissonance easily of the same order as someone of afro-caribbean origin voting for the BNP.

Jim

[CrazyFoxMachine]

Oh Jim there were QUITE a few posts between what you said and what I was saying it wasn't a dig at you just a general snarky forumcomment (tm), it IS a bewildering phenomenon that ignores facts (and history) and one I've seen alarmingly first hand. Let's not fight eh, as Whedon said in his "I didn't quit Twitter because of feminists you knee-jerk nutters" interview:

"Every sub-section of liberalism is always busy attacking another sub-section of liberalism, because god forbid they should all band together and actually fight for the cause."

So come on, eh. Let's get together and destroy the crossbar I or something. Let's fuck them in the cross-bar I.

[NapalmKev]

Don't forget to Vote tomorrow. Make sure the Tories get hammered into the dirt.

Cheers

[Jim_Campbell]

Oh Jim there were QUITE a few posts between what you said and what I was saying it wasn't a dig at you just a general snarky forumcomment (tm)

Mmm. Yes. I've just had my first direct encounter with the charmless bunch of misogynist motherfuckers who cluster under the Gamergate banner, so I may be over-touchy just now. My apologies.

Jim

[JayzusB.Christ]

the vast majority of whom dress and behave in a perfectly ordinary way

...blimey this is all really opening my eyes guys you mean people who identify as gay might be individuals with their own opinions?!



Sorry let's make this more sarcastic:

I too hope one day to actually meet one of those fine gay folk and find out from them what all of their kind think about Tories/hammers/cheese but until then I will just have to put up with all us straights and our identical thoughts on politics, religion and culture generally. Oh us straights.

All I was doing was quoting a gay man's opinion which for me personally was surprising as I hadn't heard it before.  The part you quoted was me paraphrasing him - I wasn't trying to open anyone's eyes to anything; I just thought it was an interesting point of view and decided to share it here.   

[Theblazeuk]

The difficulty in being 'liberal' is that you care what other people think/feel.

It's much easier to be a ****, just see Fox/UKIP. You don't even need to try and be internally consistent.

[Banners]

Don't forget to Vote tomorrow...

Or if you're voting UKIP, the vote is on Friday.

;-)

[Old Tankie]

Why would anyone be baffled that gay people would want to vote for a political party that wants to control immigration and to leave the European Union.  I find it strange when people support a political party that, when in government, entered into what many people considered an illegal war and, because of that political decision, contributed to the deaths of thousands of people.  Now, that's baffling.

[Theblazeuk]

I don't think it's baffling that gay people would vote conservative. UKIP, that's one I can't get my head around. Conservatives - well just because there's a bunch of old bigots who speak loudly about it doesn't mean there all like that. But by the same token the party's voting record speaks for itself; more Conservatives voted against same-sex marriage than for it. The numbers are really quite revealing.

http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2013-02-05&number=151&dmp=6686


I haven't met a Labour supporter happy about the Iraq war. And 146 of 148 tory MPs voted 'aye' there; proportionally speaking, more Labour MPs voted against their own government in this regard. The tories also had 100% turnout whereas many Labour MPs abstained rather than rebel against the whip. If the Tories had opposed it, it wouldn't have happened. David Cameron voted for it for one. And to return to gay issues, David Cameron voted against the repeal of Section 28 in 2003, along with the majority of Tory MPs - http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2003-03-10&number=109. 

(For completeness sake here is the Iraq one http://www.publicwhip.org.uk/division.php?date=2003-03-18&number=118&display=allpossible)

A parliamentary system is more complex than portrayed and could be a relatively good democracy if we'd use it properly. It's far from ideal though; my own MP, Jim Dobbin of Heywood/Middleton, was a devout Catholic and as such voted in ways I found completely reprehensible on occasion.

It's baffling how the information is out there but the rhetoric is all that seems to matter.

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

Why would anyone be baffled that gay people would want to vote for a political party that wants to control immigration and to leave the European Union.

Because of this sort of thing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-25793358

[Theblazeuk]

Or this

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/ukip-conference-homophobic-leaflet-claims-5243610

[Professor Bear]

It's not that we're baffled why gay people would vote UKIP, we're baffled why anyone with an ounce of sense would vote UKIP.

[Old Tankie]

Well, I'm baffled why anyone with an ounce of sense would vote for a party that when in government was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people.  But, that's just me!

[Tjm86]

I was/am simply baffled by the fact that a disproportionate number of my friends on social media (and in real life, now that I think about it) who actively espouse a political stance that I would consider right-wing, up to and including voting UKIP, are gay. I would struggle to support a party of any persuasion if a fundamental part of their platform was the active denigration, the vilification, of a basic part of my identity. It seems to me that there's a cognitive dissonance easily of the same order as someone of afro-caribbean origin voting for the BNP.

Jim

I always remember one episode of West Wing where Josh is trying to convince a congressman to vote a particular way.  He finally bursts out with the point that the aforementioned congressman is gay an asks why he would be a member of a party that despises him.

The congressman responds by asking why Josh doesn't join the NRA.  '2 million members.  Get 2 million and 1 opposing members to join then call a vote!'  Undermine what they stand for from the inside.

[I, Cosh]

Well, I'm baffled why anyone with an ounce of sense would vote for a party that when in government was responsible for the deaths of thousands of people.  But, that's just me!

It's not a binary situation.