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Dredd's real-time ageing?

Started by JayzusB.Christ, 10 April, 2021, 03:59:53 PM

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Barrington Boots

We all think Dredd's run his course because we've been reading about him for decades, but realistically as others have said he'll never go away because he is such a huge IP and I don't think he'll ever be replaced: there'd be constant comparisons to the man himself, and eventually he'd be retconned back into the main role.

Personally, I think Dredd himself as a nuanced character is played out: he's been everywhere and done everything and the character's been moved forward to the point that he can only be moved back or painted in the broadest of stokes. As I reckon 'real time' Dredd's time is at an end, and I'd almost prefer the writers don't worry about some convulted continuity and just have him grinding on forever rather than explain it. I think the current batch of cit-centric stories, where Dredd appears as a looming threat or just kills / cubes everyone at the end are the best way around having the strip constantly focusing on him.
You're a dark horse, Boots.

IndigoPrime

Quote from: Funt Solo on 10 April, 2021, 06:14:48 PMWe could ask the question: did that work for Strontium Dog?
I was pretty grumpy about Strontium Dog at the time. Recently, though, I've re-read the entire run (bar the very last story) via the Hachette series and Rebellion's Repo Men. I was surprised to discover I enjoyed the original run less than I thought I would. I mean, it's still frequently very good, but it's patchier than I remembered, especially at the start and end.

The reboot starts really oddly, attempting to reframe the past as myth. It adds a bunch of stuff like Milton that's never mentioned again. The entire Kreeler Conspiracy story feels like a mis-step. But then it all gets better, very, very quickly. Blood Moon was strong and more nuanced than older Strontium Dog. The entire Traitor book was rollicking stuff, with varied approaches to the storytelling.

For me, Strontium Dog went off the boil somewhat again when it attempted to loop everything back into continuity. Life and Death was needlessly foul regarding Feral (who, when you look at the storyline, did [spoiler]help carry Alpha through the dimensional portal AND kept him hidden from the Kreelers AND took him to Zen, but then got 'punished' in the arc for not offering to lay down his life for the hero[/spoiler]. And that Ho Gan jibe by Wagner ("notorious fantasist") felt really off.

The rest of the arc was fine, but felt a bit flat—like it was going through Portrait motions again with a new cast of mutants who'd all be killed off without that causing a flicker of giving a crap in the reader. (There was no time to get invested in any of them, after all.) Then we had Stix Fix doing an ill-advised trip back to 1980s stereotyping before the trip rallied somewhat with Repo Men.

It's hard to know where Strontium Dog might have gone after this had Ezquerra still been around to illustrate it. But reading these tales did make me think that I these days care more about a good story than continuity in long-running series. What was once an interesting and useful device increasingly feels like a problem to long-term readers and a weird oddity to people who subsequently find out Dredd is in his 70s. I've no idea what the solution is, nor even if it's necessary to have one.

The Legendary Shark

[move]~~~^~~~~~~~[/move]




Richard

That was a good summary of Strontium Dog.

QuoteI'd almost prefer the writers don't worry about some convulted continuity...

I wouldn't. To me, the fact that Judge Dredd moves on in real time year by year, and has so much history to it, is so much better than US superheroes where Spiderman is still a teenager after 50 years. If they really ditched that I think I would stop reading it. It's not inconsistent with having good stories, as we've seen over the last 44 years.

JayzusB.Christ

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 12 April, 2021, 10:02:45 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 10 April, 2021, 06:14:48 PMWe could ask the question: did that work for Strontium Dog?
I was pretty grumpy about Strontium Dog at the time. Recently, though, I've re-read the entire run (bar the very last story) via the Hachette series and Rebellion's Repo Men. I was surprised to discover I enjoyed the original run less than I thought I would. I mean, it's still frequently very good, but it's patchier than I remembered, especially at the start and end.

The reboot starts really oddly, attempting to reframe the past as myth. It adds a bunch of stuff like Milton that's never mentioned again. The entire Kreeler Conspiracy story feels like a mis-step. But then it all gets better, very, very quickly. Blood Moon was strong and more nuanced than older Strontium Dog. The entire Traitor book was rollicking stuff, with varied approaches to the storytelling.

For me, Strontium Dog went off the boil somewhat again when it attempted to loop everything back into continuity. Life and Death was needlessly foul regarding Feral (who, when you look at the storyline, did [spoiler]help carry Alpha through the dimensional portal AND kept him hidden from the Kreelers AND took him to Zen, but then got 'punished' in the arc for not offering to lay down his life for the hero[/spoiler]. And that Ho Gan jibe by Wagner ("notorious fantasist") felt really off.

The rest of the arc was fine, but felt a bit flat—like it was going through Portrait motions again with a new cast of mutants who'd all be killed off without that causing a flicker of giving a crap in the reader. (There was no time to get invested in any of them, after all.) Then we had Stix Fix doing an ill-advised trip back to 1980s stereotyping before the trip rallied somewhat with Repo Men.


I totally agree - Glad I'm not alone! I liked Feral - he was ideal for Simon Harrison at the time.   I'd also add that I thought Johnny's death was an incredible scene and a brave step for 2000ad, and I was disappointed that they brought him back to life.
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

broodblik

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 12 April, 2021, 12:18:15 PM
I totally agree - Glad I'm not alone! I liked Feral - he was ideal for Simon Harrison at the time.   I'd also add that I thought Johnny's death was an incredible scene and a brave step for 2000ad, and I was disappointed that they brought him back to life.

I also felt the same about his "return". It always felt quite clumsy and basically illogically how it was done. 
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

Barrington Boots

Quote from: Richard on 12 April, 2021, 12:13:33 PM
That was a good summary of Strontium Dog.

QuoteI'd almost prefer the writers don't worry about some convulted continuity...

I wouldn't. To me, the fact that Judge Dredd moves on in real time year by year, and has so much history to it, is so much better than US superheroes where Spiderman is still a teenager after 50 years. If they really ditched that I think I would stop reading it. It's not inconsistent with having good stories, as we've seen over the last 44 years.

I meant specifically with regards Dredd's aging, not the main strip itself. If we're going to have to go through hoop-jumping stories where Dredd get's de-aged every once in a while I'd rather his age just wasn't acknowledged at all.
You're a dark horse, Boots.

Funt Solo

I keep skirting around the specific topic, but I think it's relevant to look at how other characters are handled.

The Anderson story in Regened prog 2183 (First-Class Citizen) is set in the modern era of MC-1, but there are only two clues to that fact: one, in the text in Joko's Nerve Centre and two, she psi-flashes a projection of a grizzled looking Dredd to spook a perp.

But, Anderson herself is most often presented as a young woman, and here's no different. This story could really have been set in almost any year of the city's history after she's graduated.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

The Corinthian

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 12 April, 2021, 10:02:45 AM
The reboot starts really oddly, attempting to reframe the past as myth. It adds a bunch of stuff like Milton that's never mentioned again. The entire Kreeler Conspiracy story feels like a mis-step.

Wasn't it basically Wagner retooling the pitch for a Strontium Dog film/TV series from the Fleetway Films debacle, then junking the "streamlined for the screen" stuff when it was decided to revive the strip regularly?

IndigoPrime

It was, and the reboot series is presented as a kind of attempt to get at the 'truth' of Strontium Dog, but Kreeler Conspiracy therefore sticks out like a sore thumb in several regards.

As for Anderson, that character's appearance makes no sense in continuity, given the point the strip specifically made about Psis _not_ having access to any tech that would arrest ageing, since that affects psi powers. Or perhaps that was ditched so she could carry on mostly resembling the current artist's fantasy woman (with a few exceptions, not least Ranson's interpretation).

The Legendary Shark


Dredd has the fastest Lawmaster in the whole Justice Department - this is so he can get where he's going before he forgets why he went.

[move]~~~^~~~~~~~[/move]




Woolly

Let's not forget that Dredd was genetically engineered, and thus has access to many future-science crap ideas gene-massages that could prolong life/hardness/glow-in-the-dark-powers...

Funt Solo

++ A-Z ++  coma ++

The Legendary Shark


Dredd died when Whitey shot him from a mile away in Prog 2. The rest is a simulation.

[move]~~~^~~~~~~~[/move]




JayzusB.Christ

Quote from: The Corinthian on 12 April, 2021, 03:51:20 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 12 April, 2021, 10:02:45 AM
The reboot starts really oddly, attempting to reframe the past as myth. It adds a bunch of stuff like Milton that's never mentioned again. The entire Kreeler Conspiracy story feels like a mis-step.

Wasn't it basically Wagner retooling the pitch for a Strontium Dog film/TV series from the Fleetway Films debacle, then junking the "streamlined for the screen" stuff when it was decided to revive the strip regularly?

I think so, yeah.  Continuity was very different too - Nelson Kreelman as 'President of Earth' for example; presumably so the Americans could produce it if they wanted.
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"