Minor Orgins Gripe

[Funt Solo]

I keep hearing complaints about that - did Rico #1 have a "Dredd" badge in an earlier story or something?

[Bad Andy]

'John Wanger'

He does write some penetrative stuff, I suppose.

[Steve Green]

That's his Porn Star name...

- Steve

[opaque]

I know we can't go into a great deal of detail of things that went on in the history (especially as has been mentioned it's just Dredd sat in a cave) but the impression I got was that Origins was supposed to be about the start of the whole system not just the fact that Fargo didn't die and was put in statis then went missing. Maybe I was just wrong?

My worry is that if we're not going to see the foundation of the Dredd world in Origins (hence the title) will we ever see it?


It took 5 and a half pages for Dredd and Rico in to get out of the hospital in Prog 1529. The overthrowing of Booths control was given a lovely full page of artwork but it got 2 and a bit pages in total. Which was more important?

Hopefully we will get to see loads more but how will it fit in? Dredd giving talks at the academy maybe?

I'm not saying it needs to affect the canon elements of Dredd. In fact for most of the years in question barring a couple of events it would be creating it!

I think we were spoiled by epics such as the Apocalypse War really.

[[YT-2]]

>IMO it's not proved problematic in any way to have a two-tier system in terms of continuity, even with 2000ad Dredd strips. The Wagner stuff's always the best, anyway, so I find it very easy to ignore things that don't fit.

When working on the timeline and history anything not Wagner wasnâ??t immediately dismissed, just highlighted. Creators like Pat & Alan have had a lot of input and there was no real need to examine their work but other creators have just pissed around with Dredd on their way through to America so their work was easier to disregard if needed.

Games were another area that was at times ignored, not read or used by a huge chunk of Dredd fans, dates made up to suit a game and fill in blanks by whoever was writing that particular scenario, so does it deserve to be treated as canon, I donâ??t think so.

[JOE SOAP]

I think that the war of the Judges against Booth is already considered the "civil war", so if the conflict with Texas had been acknowledged in Origins then we would have had 2 civil wars in one story.

To have the Texas War included in Origins would be a mistake in terms of story structure, It would feel like an anti-climax having followed on from an even greater war/conflict caused by the judges' "Declaration of Independance" in dramatic terms.

It's similar to the reason why "the Scouring of the Shire" chapter was dropped from the film of Return of the King. It's too much of a weak tangent dramatically.


Of course there's no reason why the Texas War along with the Battle of Armageddon can't be told in separate stories. It would probably serve both better.
To have included both in Origins would have diverted too much from the main narrative thread of current events in the story, plus the fact Booth, at least, has already been seen arrested and sentenced before in "the Cursed Earth" story.

[JOE SOAP]

***My worry is that if we're not going to see the foundation of the Dredd world in Origins (hence the title) will we ever see it? ***

We've seen Fargo set up the Judges in Origins.

Are the civics and construction of Mega City One really that interesting as a story?

[Misanthrope]

Good point.

Imagine if a great war hero was born in your town. Someone writes his biography and goes into detail about the construction of the town he was born in.
It would bore you senseless.

[Robin Low]

You know, for years I've been trying figure out where the idea of a civil war between Texas City and MC1 and MC2 came from, and finally it's revealed to me that it came from a cover poster!

I'm at a loss whether I should incorporate it into my timeline or not.

Either way, I reckon there's plenty of ideas for Origins 2. Let's just hope we don't have wait another 30 years.

Regards

Robin

[Robin Low]

"Are the civics and construction of Mega City One really that interesting as a story?"

Potentially, yes. The transition between the two systems of rule could not have been easy. It would be interesting to see what challenges to their authority the Judges faced, and whether or not they relied on force, cunning or genuine heroism to get their own way.

Also, the city-blocks and roadways of MC1 have always been an integral part of the series, so using their construction as a backdrop to stories could be intersting.

Regards

Robin

[Funt Solo]

::"it came from a cover poster!"

I know, that is rather odd.  Is it mentioned anywhere else?  Is it even mentioned within that prog?  Sometimes there would be text inside the prog about the cover story.  (When I was a kid, I had this naive belief that everything I read about Dredd was an official part of the overall history of that world - including a single cover poster and the information presented in the original RPG, and anything by any creator.  The point at which I couldn't hold onto that anymore was when Millar toppled the east-coast Statue of Judgement into the west wall.  You see - it's all his fault!)

::"interesting to see what challenges to their authority the Judges faced"

The thing is, we did see that - we saw them fighting regular army units and a citizenry out of control.  Without a character being involved in that, it's not much of a story.  One thing does interest me - the Judges took power by force, right?  And all this happened after an atomic war.  Why did the citizens erect the Statue of Judgement in their honour?  You'd think they'd be equally peeved with any gun-toting authority.  (Mind you, I might be picking that up from the RPG timeline as well.)

[Tweak72]

Judges took control but with the support of the Citizens

[[YT-2]]

>I know, that is rather odd. Is it mentioned anywhere else?

not in the comics. Except for that cover image and some RPG stuff.

http://www.2000adonline.com/covers/2000ad/mediumres/169.jpg>http://www.2000adonline.com/covers/scans/mediumres/169.jpg>

[[YT-2]]

balls put the images teh wrong way round 8-(

[Robin Low]

"When I was a kid, I had this naive belief that everything I read about Dredd was an official part of the overall history of that world - including a single cover poster and the information presented in the original RPG, and anything by any creator."

My take on this stuff goes as follows:

-does it add something interesting to the story?

-does it fit without causing problems to established continuity?

-if it does cause problems with established continuity, but still adds something intersting, can a credible fudge be created to explain it?

If the answers to those questions are yes, then I tend to go for it.

"The thing is, we did see that - we saw them fighting regular army units and a citizenry out of control. Without a character being involved in that, it's not much of a story."

I'm thinking of the period following the Battle of Armageddon as the Judges firmly establish themselves in MC1

"One thing does interest me - the Judges took power by force, right? And all this happened after an atomic war. Why did the citizens erect the Statue of Judgement in their honour? You'd think they'd be equally peeved with any gun-toting authority."

As someone pointed out, it was said (I think in the Cursed Earth epic when we first hear about Booth) that the Judges took control at the wishes of the people. That could be Justice Department propaganda, but under the circumstances of what had just happened it seems perfectly credible.

It's entirely possible that the two decades or so between the Judges taking power and the first time we see Dredd in 2099 was a relatively relaxed period, where the citizens were reasonablely happy with the way the Judges operated. As readers, we might literally be real-time witnesses to the increasing power and controlling authority of the Judges.

Regards

Robin