Prog 2373 - A crash course in future law enforcement!

[Le Fink]

Regened is quite an odd name. It's not meaningful to new readers, as it references something that happened in the comic in 1985, and, erm, didn't work very well. 

Oh, what's that referring to?

The hinge-story (progs 401-406) that took Rogue from Nu Earth to Horst. G, B & H (wait - GBH?) were regened but then started to sort of flake away (like people in Marty McFly's photograph in BttF) because of a mad space-math disease that could only be cured by a magic egg from D&D World.

Oh THAT.

 

[IndigoPrime]

I suppose we should really get at least one review into each page of this review thread, so here's mine. An odd Prog this week after the past couple of months. Despite only one strip changing, it feels like a bit of a comedown. That's not to say this was a bad Prog – it really wasn't – but it obvious feels very different.

I thought the Stuart Moore wraparound cover was excellent, and the (unrelated) Dredd was a useful palette cleanser. The story was fun. A bit slight. But I'm OK with that this week. I'm not sure I could have coped had this one turned out differently at the end.

Indigo Prime continues to play with some interesting concepts within its own continuity. I hope Kek-W can keep it coherent. I'm not sure we need more toys from the toy box. Wiping out the Tyranny army as a pity. Some nice body horror this episode too.

Filt Tilt Boogie continues to be fun, although I clearly need a re-read to decipher what was going on in p4–5. Not sure whether the gran was just lucky or if she has a kind of sixth sense. Lying cats seeming cousin is fun. (I get the need to release collections quickly, but how nice would it have been to have had both FTB series in a single HC? Ah well.)

Deadworld slaps back and forth between pantomime villains and genuine horror, sometimes within the same few pages. "We are losing control of the Judge Child", says Phobia. And the plot also. This one just feels like a mess now. I've no idea what's going no. Maybe I'm getting old.

Thistlebone is much tighter, and ends suitably ominously.

Full Tilt Boogie > Indigo Prime > Dredd > Thistlebone > Deadworld. Nothing bad. Four good. One that I wish was more good – for me, at least.

[scrotnig]

If Regened is done, I shall miss it as it once was. I think the last few issues were....not as strong as earlier ones. I guess that's the last we'll ever see of Lowborn High as well. I will be honest and say I don't miss that. But I will miss a lot of the other stuff. Obviously the best of it is in the main Prog now, but I felt there was life in Finder and Keeper, and Renk to name but two. The latter I would very much like to see in the Prog.

It begs the question....how DO you attract new younger readers? Us old farts don't be around forever.

[Funt Solo]

It begs the question....how DO you attract new younger readers? Us old farts don't be around forever.

One angle would be that you don't necessarily need to attract very young readers - they'll already be into comic-formats from other media (graphic novels) and then they just need to angle in to 2000 AD.

I think the quality of 2000 AD is the main selling point, but it's a teenage to adult age rating at the moment. Regened worked best when it was established talent with 2000 AD's best aspects of chaos and non-conformity. Fundamentally, I think there's a problem with presenting "all ages" as being squeaky clean. Cadet Dredd was a bit Judge Pal - which is supposed to be a disturbing critique of a "dob-in-your-neighbor" totalitarian state, but in Regened we were supposed to whoop. Chopper's parents got twisted around from out-of-touch wasters into loveable eccentrics. Instead of him being a sullen teenager looking for some meaning in his life, he became a happy-go-lucky cut-out from Whizzer 'n' Chips.

Ultimately, it felt like Regened (in some cases) meant Neutered.

[Colin YNWA]

As others have said the problem with Regened wasn't the idea that was aces. It was the excecution in the second half of its run. It seemed to stop using the best talent available to pull new readers in and felt more and more like a way to give folks a tryout* and so shot itself in the foot.

If you think about the quality of some of the earlier strips, Pandora Perfect, Department K, Mayflies, Full Tilt Boogie to name but a few. There was some good Future Shocks and shorter stuff like Intestinauts and that game by Henry Flint in the FCBD issue. It oozed quality. There were misteps sure but those were always balanced by great stuff.

As it went on the quality dropped and never recovered. Such a shame. Also things weren't helped by the fact that they never quite settled on how to do Cadet Dredd. At times it was great, at times it just didn't work. It never selected in how to use an authoritarian lead to best effect and for me it worked best when he was contrasted with Rico... but maybe Dredd needed to be the villain of that strip? Who knows I'm sure folks did the work to research how best to do it.

Still let's see what happens next and hopefully there are ways to turn this kids line into something more bridging?

*Probably not true or fair but defo my instinctive impression.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Maybe I am just getting old, but I have no idea what's going on in any of the strips other than Dredd.

I have never, ever, been able to follow Indigo Prime.

Full Tilt Boogie feels like it has 10 years of back story that I've missed.

Deadworld seems to be going in circles.

Thistlebone... nothing has happened in it, other than some folks have made a film and go pissed. There has been no horror (other than 70s fashion). Am I right in thinking it's a flashback?

[zombieman]

As a horror nerd, the incorrect Scanners reference in Indigo Prime annoyed me. 

[zombieman]

Oh lord, please ignore me. I somehow managed to skip 2 pages!

[Le Fink]

...It was the excecution in the second half of its run...

This has probably been said but I think the scheduling hurt it too. 4 issues a year makes long form stories harder to follow/care about so you're left for the most part with one-offs, which are also possible harder to write in order to give you that emotional connection and payoff. A monthly comic might have worked with long form stories like following a bunch of cadets through their training. I'd actually be happy to read that. Current Dredd and other stars could cameo. It's young protagonists, tick, sci-fi, tick, and drama, tick, but drawn out so you see them grow, succeed and fail over time.

[JayzusB.Christ]

It begs the question....how DO you attract new younger readers? Us old farts don't be around forever.

One angle would be that you don't necessarily need to attract very young readers - they'll already be into comic-formats from other media (graphic novels) and then they just need to angle in to 2000 AD.

I think the quality of 2000 AD is the main selling point, but it's a teenage to adult age rating at the moment. Regened worked best when it was established talent with 2000 AD's best aspects of chaos and non-conformity. Fundamentally, I think there's a problem with presenting "all ages" as being squeaky clean. Cadet Dredd was a bit Judge Pal - which is supposed to be a disturbing critique of a "dob-in-your-neighbor" totalitarian state, but in Regened we were supposed to whoop. Chopper's parents got twisted around from out-of-touch wasters into loveable eccentrics. Instead of him being a sullen teenager looking for some meaning in his life, he became a happy-go-lucky cut-out from Whizzer 'n' Chips.

Ultimately, it felt like Regened (in some cases) meant Neutered.

While I have no idea what modern-day kids like, I used to really enjoy the merciless cynicism of Dredd when I was a kid, even if I didn't know what 'cynicism' meant.  Of course I still liked the monsters and the explosions too, but The Exploding Man proved you could have both in a story that still had poignancy and depth.

BAD Company was absolutely rivetting to me, despite the relentless brutality and the harrowing evolution of innocent recruits to ruthless killers.

But who knows - maybe modern-day children have a very different mindset.  We clearly had very different tastes from 50s Eagle kids, after all.

[Barrington Boots]

My run of Saturday Progs has come to and end and this dropped yesterday. Nevertheless I really enjoyed this Prog.
Really great, moody cover. A touch of Akira on the red bike, or is that just me?

Dredd was indeed very slight but perfectly enjoyable, whether it leads to a recurring character or not. Was always going to be a bit of a 'death slot' following a depressing mega epic so this story was well placed to handle that.

Indigo Prime Good episode. I'm following this just fine - IP's never been one of my favourite strips but one thing I've always enjoyed about it is that it feels ever so slightly incomprehensible in the way events and things are referenced without explanation and that adds to the uniqueness of it. This was weird, violent and looks beautiful, digging it.
Agree about the Scanners reference though! Needled me too and not needed.

Filt Tilt Boogie Enjoyed this a lot more than last week. I also am not sure on the scene with the coin (blind luck or something else?) but appreciated the slightly comedic aspect of the assassin missing and getting beaten up. I've enjoyed this so far - and it feels like this is a perfect all ages strip, especially with its bright, manga-influenced art which is likely to appeal to more younger readers than put off older ones based on what I know. My only complaint is how decompressed the storytelling has been so far.

Deadworld feels a lot tighter since we shifted back to Jess & co and away from the Sovs and Skeletor Sidney. This is grotesque and exciting stuff, especially as I'm more invested in these characters and we don't know who the protagonist is (Jess? Fairfax? Whatever Byke is?) so anyone or indeed everyone could die here - although I suspect Fairfax won't, from what Jess said. 

Thistlebone Cool as ever, although I was hoping for more happening after the tree page last week. Atmosphere building and building to something dreadful.

As to the Regened debate... NGL, I'm happy it appears to be done but I don't want the Prog to bleed readers without bringing in more until it fades away. As when it launched I just have to trust Rebellion who should know more about marketing strategy than anything anecdotal I might have. The format - having the issues so spread out - definitely had me thinking it was more of a try out for strips with a view to moving them into the Prog and then getting a collected edition out of them meaning the best stuff consistently vanished from its pages to be replaced with stuff that often felt filler-y, especially in the latter issues, and fwiw I found the content of a lot of the stuff weirdly pitched: seemingly unsuitable for younger readers in many ways whilst being unengaging for an older reader. I was very surprised that more established or veteran creators in the kids comic field weren't used.
At the end of the day I hope it did some good!

[IndigoPrime]

maybe modern-day children have a very different mindset

The main thing I see in mini-IP and her friends regarding stories they (mostly girls, 9-10) read are: younger-aged protagonists; an emphasis on justice in the sense of fairness (something Cadet Dredd really struggled with); a shit-ton of horror, but often laced with comedy; diversity replacing meanness (Blyton now considered archaic; Dahl confuses due to its meanness; and I suspect Harry Potter could head the same way, given its rampant stereotypes, although many of those are lost on kids – and probably adults too).

Which might sound... dull? But the books I read with her are often whip-smart. They tackle a lot of themes to help the protagonists to their goals. Humour exists because someone has set up a joke, rather than just screaming LOOK AT THE UGLY FAT PERSON. And they're often really engaging in terms of language and pace.

Regarding comics vs books, I think it's much harder to say what works. There's clearly some success in the indie space. Manga is hugely popular with teens. Younger kids devour a smallish selection of mostly cartoon-oriented titles. The Phoenix shows there's a market, but it may well be a very small one. And even The Beano is bouncing around a ~30k circulation (IIRC) these days.

For me, the best of Regened were series that made no assumptions. Those tying themselves heavily into continuity – especially previous 2000 AD stuff, but also within Regened itself (Lowborn High, say) – suffered. And Cadet Dredd didn't really work because as a basic concept it's fundamentally flawed from the outset.

In the 1970s, the 'hardman' was the centrepiece of media and so translated well to comics. As we grew up, so did the Dredd strip, bringing in nuance. Readers became engaged with its grey area morality. But that path doesn't exist in the 2020s. The Cadet incarnation worked best when it ditched all that and became about the brothers – one reckless and one being a rigid killjoy. Yet even then, it too often clearly wanted to tie itself into actual Dredd continuity (with several foreshadowing nods), rather than just being its own thing, and it made you root for the character who wasn't the lead, because he was actually fun.

[Link Prime]

Got an 80% thumbs-up Prog this week, so pretty much no complaints.

The Regened debate continues to be a wild ride, with a lot of you former Pro-Geners admitting you won't miss it.

The whole affair will be poorly regarded retrospectively I suspect - by the majority of us who will still be alive and well, and buying 2000AD, in the next decade and indeed the couple after that.

The only actual threats I see on the Prog's short to medium-term horizon are the cut-backs at the competent Script Droid production facility.

[Jim_Campbell]

Cue Jim Campbell explaining why it had to be part of the normal prog run for economic reasons...

Ahem.

The reason why Regened ended up in the prog was nothing to do with economics. Keith Richardson (I think) explicitly said in a thrill-cast that the first Regened was supposed to be a special, but the distributor nixed it on the grounds that they thought Rebellion already had enough specials coming up that year. That meant that they would have had to drop another special to make room for Regened.

I'm assuming (as always, no inside info) that a judgement was made that it would be easier to fold the Regened content into the regular prog than to do the same with any of the other specials on the slate that year.

And then we had the pandemic, which made the idea of launching a new title incredibly risky when we were only ever one spike in the R number and another lockdown away from all the retail outlets being ordered to close again. At that point, given that the numbers for having the content in the prog were, by all accounts, pretty encouraging, it certainly did make economic sense to continue with a strategy that Rebellion certainly didn't intend at the outset.

We're in a different place now, so maybe it makes sense to take a step back and review the strategy given the different circumstances. Again, I don't know. I thought, and still think, the idea is a sound one, so I hope that it continues to exist in some form.

[IndigoPrime]

And newsstand is even riskier today, arguably. Locally, we've seen McColl's be replaced by a Morrisons Local, which has reduced the amount of magazines/comics carried to (at a rough estimate) 20%. A nearby gigantic Tesco has ripped out its book section entirely and the magazines have been drastically reduced – probably to about 40% of the original space, and there's definitely also a reduction in what's carried. And rumblings continue about WHSmith and whether that too might start cutting things back in future. (I hope not – it's now last-place standing in a lot of towns.)