In search of the ultimate SF list

[Slippery PD]

TP - That may be the case,  but I for one have grown out of it.  I now look back and cringe at episodes that I used to watch.  So Ive grown up....  maybe thats not altogether a good thing.  
The list itself is subjective, I have given my opinion and in doing so have said that three of the major Pillar's of SCI-FI, shouldnt go on the list.  I dont suggest that Dr Who or Star Trek or Star Wars arent popular indeed they are but does that make them "good".  By the same token then reality TV shows, games shows and Soaps, should also be "good".

As I said with Star Trek that may make me unpopular, but, its my humble (very) opinion.

[Tu-plang]

I agree Star trek's not very good, that's 3 of us against the world.

[paulvonscott]

Star Wars has gone seriously tits up in my opinion, original Star Trek was fun and followed by some seriously shite series.  

But I have to say Dr Who is for me still one of my faves, having watched just about all of them (that still exist) from Hartnell onwards, I have to say it's a cracking program.  If all you can see is some dodgy special effects (and the admittedly poor end of the show, post Davidson) then that's a shame.  I still think Dr Who is the best idea for a tv show ever, you can have it set anywhere and at any time and it's still Dr Who.  Great stuff.

[Quirkafleeg]

Make that 4.

Quit liked the OS when I was younger and there's some good ideas in it... but now I find it hard to get past just how very bad an actor Shatner is.

The rest are just po-faced rubbish mixing the worst of right and left wing America - Republican militarism and hippie dip-shit philosophy.  

[Quirkafleeg]

Make that 4.

Quit liked the OS when I was younger... but now I find it hard to get past how bad an actor Shatner is.

The rest are just po-faced rubbish mixing the worst of right and left wing America - Republican militarism and hippie dip-shit philosophy.  

[Slippery PD]

PVS - maybe thats it, I said previously that after Davidson Ive never had time for Who, due to the fact that I hated whoever played who, and this also coincided with my teenage years. I just lost all interest in it.  Id agree with your comment though that as a premise for a TV show its definately one of the best.

Ive watched episodes recently and it does nothing for me.  I probably just see it as a part of my pre-teens, that will never return.  Which is possibly rather sad.

In respect to Star Trek, I find it  banal and dull, particularly after the original series.  Oh look were all human, dont we get along together.  Well No we feckin dont.  The aliens are the badguys and whats this whole lets sit down and have a chat business from TNG, its like the united nations in space.  Dull, dull, dull.  Then theres the other spin offs, aaaargh.  Isnt the star trek cow well and truly milked?????    

Which leads me to star wars...  the cow Mr Lucas is well and truly milked.  First three films were excellent, I just wish hed decided to stop there.  

I think I may be turning into the grumpy misery guts of this board, sorry all.  Rant over.  

[2000AD Online]

A drunken Mr. Whit replies:

Doctor Who is quite possibly the ultimate television show. It can be anything, anywhere, any time. A shame, then, that fan expectation and public perception have had an unfortunate habit of inhibiting its near-limitless potential. I can't agree with post-Davison being worthless as Pertwee is probably my least favourite Doctor.

As for Shatner, again I disagree. He's actually a more than capable actor who got lazy and allowed his ego to get the better of him.

[judda fett]

StarWars, the legacy of the original trilogy is honoured by the 'Expanded Universe' of novels and comics- moreso than the current run of prequels; read 'The Han Solo Trilogy', 'The Bounty Hunter Wars', and 'Tales from Jabbas Palace'. Youre a cold bastard if these dont take you back to the playground. Also check out the new DarkHorse Marvel reprint SW collections...
Im a big SW fan (top of my list is Boba Fett), and undoubtabley the 'classic' trilogy is a big part of 99.9% of the twentysomethings on this boards collective childhood.
Everything is better when youre a kid- SW is no exception and we'll all be at Episode 3 to see how Anakin becomes Vader...

[O Lucky Stevie!]

>Doug - Big Faux pas from me on that one, Dune, of course. How could I have forgotten??

no doubt because you were blocking all memory of the sequels. the first book is a masterpeice, but unfortunately it's progressively downhill from there, to the point where anything beyond the initial trilogy isn't worth bothering with.

a guy who works in one of two local comics shop recently asked me to compile a list of sf authors whom i rate. here 'tis:--

Poul Anderson
Isaac Asimov
J G Ballard
Iain M Banks
John Barnes
Stephen Baxter
Greg Bear
Gregory Benford
Alfed Bester
Terry Bisson
James Blish
Ray Bradbury
David Brin
Pat Cadigan
Arthur C Clarke
Hal Clement
Tony Daniel
Philip K Dick
Thomas M Disch
Greg Egan
Harlan Ellison
Kathleen Ann Goonan
Joe Haldeman
Alexander Jablokov
James Patrick Kelly
Geoffrey A Landis
Ursula K LeGuin
Ken MacLeod
Paul McAuley
Jack McDevitt
Ian McDonald
China Mi?ville
Larry Niven
Jeff Noon
Charles Pellingrino
Frederik Pohl
Robert Reed
Alistair Reynolds
Kim Stanley Robinson
Rudy Rucker
Mary Doria Russell
Geoff Ryman
Charles Sheffield
Lucius Shepard
Cordwainer Smith
Olaf Stapledon
Allen Steele
Bruce Sterling
Theodore Sturgeon
Michael Swanwick
Sheri S Tepper
Jack Vance
Vernor Vinge
Howard Waldrop
Ian Watson
Sean Williams
Connie Willis
Robert Charles Wilson
John Wyndham
Roger Zelazny

plus any anthology edited by Gardner Dozois (especially 'The mammoth book of new sf' series)
& 'Year's best sf' anthologies edited by David G Hartwell


i've wet my knickers!
steven l'enfant terrible

[paulvonscott]

"and undoubtabley the 'classic' trilogy is a big part of 99.9% of the twentysomethings on this boards collective childhood."

It was, but the man with the beard killed it.

[O Lucky Stevie!]

>It was, but the man with the beard killed it.

so that's what that survey of devon's daddy's was all about.

my personal thoughts on star wars are that the films themselves are possibly the weakest points of the whole franchise: great preproduction design, great lunchboxes, loved the action figures when i was a kid, but the actual films themselves are blighted by pedestrian cinematography (let's face it, the only decently framed shot in 'the new hope' was the opening one of the star destroyer chasing the rebel cruiser) & banal, derivative storytelling. post-modernism & pop culture at it's laziest. though i must point out that i haven't actually seen either the phantom menace or attack of the clones &--based on my feelings for the 'classic trilogy'--i have no intention to. i'm quite certain that mr lucas won't miss my money &, franky, don't have enough hours in the day to do everything that i want to. that's why i'm sitting here typing this;)... give me 2001 & solaris anyday.

classic trek i still rate even if just for the sets, costume design & music. combustible edison in orbit, anyone? after that it's all just american mainstream culture as the salvation of the universe, although deep space nine did show some promise by staying in one place & exploring the politics of the situation.

i didn't even bother with voyager, made myself sit through the first two episodes of enterprise so that i knew that i'd have a cogent argument for the trekkies i know (most of whom, from my experience of having actually worked in a sf bookshop, have absoluely no sf interests beyond sf blockbuster films & high rating television series, if that). the bush admisnistration in space, anyone? also, am i the only one who thought that for something only made last year it looks so datedly 1990s?

as for doctor who, i'm with mrwhit (except for the bit about jon pertwee).

Link: http://www.2000adonline.com/index.php3?zone=fan&page=message&choice=2608.3211112222" target="_blank">mrwhit tells it like it is

[Eldritch]

So there is a surprising solidarity in our concensus; I find this cheering. Jack Vance, someone reminded me, most definitely deserves his place on this almost eerily united list. I'm still waiting for someone to pop up with INDEPENDENCE DAY - resist!

[paulvonscott]

Solaris with all respect sir, is a piece of shit.  Although I recommend anyone to read the original book by Stanislav Lem, who is quite frankly bloody wonderful, he deserves to be on this list.  It will only emphasise how bowel achingly tedious the film is, I read the book afterwards so it didn't colour my view of it.

Quite frankly I'd rather see the new version with George Clooney 10 times in a row than EVER watch it again.  A cack russian art movie attempting to beat 2001 and failing.

"blighted by pedestrian cinematography & banal, derivative storytelling. post-modernism & pop culture at it's laziest."

You should replace that irritating northern irish critic they drafted in to replace (the actually quite engaging)Alex Cox on moviedrome.

I love Star Wars the movie, I loved it as a kid and I love it now (sans shitty cgi extras and greedo shooting first), I like the odd bit from the next two movies but they don't hold for me what is the genuine magic of the first one.  It really was a major cinematic event (for good or bad).  Despite all it's often quoted faults I still think it's bloody marvellous.  Not into the new movies and merchandise though.  I won't be buying New Hope (it's called Star Wars you fuckers!) on DVD unless I can see the original version.

I here George is going to add more stuff to episode IV.  What a gimp.  Well, he did make THX 1138 which I liked, so that's two movies.  I am expecting that he'll go back to it and add a digital nine-headed donald pleasance to it to make it more exciting.  The gimp!

Excuse my excitableness.

[petemaskreplica]

No-one seems to have mentioned the 2 guys who pretty much invented the SF genre as we know it: H G Wells and Jules Verne. Then there's Frankenstein (the first SF novel?) and the Laputa section of Gulliver's Travels. And on the subject of old stories which influenced everything afterwards, how about Metropolis.

And I'd also like to include Terry Gilliam, for Brazil (IMO one of the best fims ever made).

[damnandblast]

"No-one seems to have mentioned the 2 guys who pretty much invented the SF genre as we know it: H G Wells and Jules Verne."

Also Edgar Rice Burroughs and Conan Doyle. Not primarily SF authors, but highly influential.

Nigel