The Political Thread

[IndigoPrime]

Deflection! Ten Brexit points!
"Greece"! Ten Brexit points!

[TordelBack]

Best of luck today UK chaps, vote with your heads. It's what Mean Machine would want.

And reflect that when Ireland, in the centenary year of the Easter Rising, wants to remain in a union with you, maybe you should take note.

[Dandontdare]

Are Greece enjoying all the safety nets of the EU?

Well their entire economy would've collapsed some years ago without the rest of us pumping in billions of euros to prop it up, so yes

[GordonR]

Isn't it strange how UKIP/Brexit supporters rarely mention immigration when asked about their voting motivations, despite opinion polls saying it's one of their main concerns.

I guess the Leave campaigns must really be wasting a lot of money and energy focussing on an issue that so few of their voters seem to be concerned about.

[TordelBack]

Surely the most incredible thing is that the economy is being thrown to the wolves to 'tackle' the source of 25% of nett immigration over the last decades, while nothing has been done to address the 75% that is entirely within Parliament's control. As many long term immigrants come from China as from Eastern/southern Europe (15%). It's almost as if the whole campaign was a front for an internal party political squabble.

[Jim_Campbell]

Isn't it strange how UKIP/Brexit supporters rarely mention immigration when asked about their voting motivations, despite opinion polls saying it's one of their main concerns.

In the news today: UK population increased by ~500,000 last year, which is pretty much bang on the average annual rise for the last decade. Still, those Balkan hordes, eh?

[morpheas]

Are Greece enjoying all the safety nets of the EU?

Yes we do.

The EU tried to throw us out a year ago, isn't it? Well Germany tried its best.

And not understanding why Greece did and DOES everything to stay in, is you problem in a nutshell. And it's not only for the money coming from the EU, because that money goes directly to Banks.

Who is to gain if you go? For the poor People it's going to be a disaster.
You should stay IMHO.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

Germany are the power behind enforcing the steep bailout on Greece, which looks like the repayments are gonna fail again in the next month or so.

I have read that suicides are up around 35% since all this began and that many people are sick of it all.

We all know that part of the problem was that taxes were not being paid across the board and that the retirement age was pretty impressive, to say the least.

It's numerous things like this that tell me Greece are not having a great time of it.

Obviously I could be wrong on all this but there's only so much time in the day to read up on everything, unless you are Legendary

[TordelBack]

Yup. If you're a polluter, unscrupulous employer, international lawyer or a born-again eurosceptic wannabe PM, vote Leave.  The rest of the UK, even the racists, sorry xenophobes, no wait, defenders of traditional 'culture' (is that one okay) won't like what they get.


CF: Greece's problems are largely internal and historical, but greatly exacerbated by its inability to devalue its currency.  The EUs poor treatment of the situation has been less than nuanced, but then nor was any other source of funds likely to be.  You'll note that the UK has its own currency which it's doing a great job of devaluing right now (my Prog less than Eur4 today, thanks Boris!), so the Greek relationship with the EU has little bearing on Leave/Remain.


I'll shut up now.  Not my fight, just a prospective victim of collateral damage.

[I, Cosh]

As for why any working man would want to leave the EU. At my place their are over 1400 and from about the 250+ that I have chatted to and heard talking over the last few months, they all want out and that includes some of the EU workers who now live here.

I believe you but it doesn't explain why.

I simply can't understand why normal working people are willing to support a movement which is being championed by people whose prime motivation is the desire to remove regulatory safeguards protecting those same working people. I know the Tories hate the whole concept of the EHCR but why would any normal person oppose the principle of basic equality?

[Professor Bear]

The media barons are very much in favor of a Brexit, so they've made sure no-one in their papers or news programmes are talking about human/workers' rights or how the bureaucratic structures that created TTIP are still firmly in place.  Instead, the debate has been framed entirely in terms of the right, and they've replaced all that lefty talk with the right-wing friendly immigration strawman and pretending the only motivation of Leave campaigners is racism.

There is, of course, also the consideration that British people are traditionally quite conservative - though this just throws up the question why they'd support the current bunch of neoliberals currently passing themselves off as Tories.

[Keef Monkey]

I only know of one person who is voting Leave, and in any conversation about it you'll hear her mention several times that she isn't racist (nobody said she was) and that she has 'other reasons', but at no point have these other reasons ever become clear. I find it very peculiar that someone would feel strongly enough about the issue to vote leave, but wouldn't have the conviction to tell anyone why.

[COMMANDO FORCES]

You honestly believe that the Tories are gonna get rid of sick pay, maternity leave, workers rights, etc.... We agree to differ there.

For a start if such a thing was ever mentioned I would expect that the backbenchers, Labour, Liberals, etc... would have some say in that and then if it was put through, then the Tories would get booted out.

Oh by the way reference pollution, hasn't Germany just built a few Coal Fired Power Stations, so the environment means a lot some but not others. Take from that what you will.

I'm not gonna battle every point out (as I have to get some sleep in and pop along to cast my vote. Hang on, this is a ploy to stop me, well you can sod off) but I believe that all have a right to vote but it seems to me that only one side constantly slags off the other by somehow knowing why they are voting differently to them, which is impressive mind reading.

One last thing, Labour have a few people who are against the EU but I don't see much said about Corbyn (he has campaigned well) and Tom Watson. Perhaps it doesn't suit some peoples agendas.

If you believe that the EU are democratic, doesn't waste money, isn't corrupt, will change for the better, then good on you. I don't see it like that. Those books still haven't been audited but who really cares. People slag off the US with all those lobbyists but there are over 30,000 doing the same stuff in the EU. I found that number from the Guardian by the way.

[Jim_Campbell]

Those books still haven't been audited but who really cares

Yes, they have.

[The Legendary Shark]

As for why any working man would want to leave the EU. At my place their are over 1400 and from about the 250+ that I have chatted to and heard talking over the last few months, they all want out and that includes some of the EU workers who now live here.

I believe you but it doesn't explain why.

I simply can't understand why normal working people are willing to support a movement which is being championed by people whose prime motivation is the desire to remove regulatory safeguards protecting those same working people. I know the Tories hate the whole concept of the EHCR but why would any normal person oppose the principle of basic equality?

I know the Tories hate the whole concept of the EHCR but why would any normal person oppose the principle of basic equality?

The ECHR (which I presume you mean - if not, ignore me!) is not an arm of the EU (although Article 17 of Protocol no.14 allows the European Union to become party to the Convention). It was established in 1959 on the basis of Article 19 of the European Convention on Human Rights, which has 47 signatories including the UK,  which was a founder member. Perhaps you mean the Court of Justice of the European Union?