*** Prog 2000 ***

[abelardsnazz]

Just read Prog 2000 and it's everything it should be, a nostalgic look back and anticipating thrills of the future.

Brilliant cover and poster by Cliff Robinson.

The Tharg link pages are a great idea, wonderful to see the return of familiar names and cameos of past thrills.

Dredd was great fun, I took it in the same spirit as Top Dogs, not thinking about continuity too much. Be great to see Dredd and Alpha team up again though.

Nemesis is also great fun, exactly in the spirit it should be.

Rogue Trooper highlights in just a few pages how good Gordon Rennie's depth of storytelling is about the eternal war on Nu Earth and sets up the new series very well.

Anderson revisits that other great eternal conflict, hers with Death, and does so brilliantly. Great to see you drawing Cass again David.

I'm not into Sinister Dexter so will leave discussion on that to those better versed than me.

Counterfeit Girl hooked me from the off, loads of ideas chucked in to the mix straight away, and Rufus Dayglo's art reflects this world perfectly'

All in all, a great Prog, all involved should feel justifiably proud.

[I, Cosh]

FWIW I don't think Cosh is far off in his assessment of Origins as a whole, but I'd expand it to include the effects of the story and not just the ending.

This is a fair point. I was just thinking recently that the whole Mutants in MC1, Tour of Duty, Mayor Maybe  might be the best Dredd era of all. Certainly in terms of a cohesive, ongoing narrative.

[sheridan]

Nicely done Robin, you're still my continuity-nerd idol.

Thanks for coming out of semi-retirement, Robin!

FWIW I don't think Cosh is far off in his assessment of Origins as a whole, but I'd expand it to include the effects of the story and not just the ending. Seeing li'l Joe'n'Rico in action, seeing Dredd confronted with the realities of the mutant experience, learning that Dredd actually knew Fargo, Fargo's mitivations and hopes, and Fargo's own remorseless self-judgement and feelings of failure, and not least crystallising the source of Dredd's doubts: he is the Law, but the Law is wrong at a fundamental level... it all deepened the Dredd character to a considerable degree.

Yep - I was thinking the same thing - the mutant stories, the Cursed Earth exile, all have followed from Origins.

[Prodigal2]

Nicely done Robin, you're still my continuity-nerd idol.

FWIW I don't think Cosh is far off in his assessment of Origins as a whole, but I'd expand it to include the effects of the story and not just the ending. Seeing li'l Joe'n'Rico in action, seeing Dredd confronted with the realities of the mutant experience, learning that Dredd actually knew Fargo, Fargo's mitivations and hopes, and Fargo's own remorseless self-judgement and feelings of failure, and not least crystallising the source of Dredd's doubts: he is the Law, but the Law is wrong at a fundamental level... it all deepened the Dredd character to a considerable degree.

Beautifully put.

As a 4 year old reader Origins really floated my boat when I purchased it shortly after dipping my toe in 2000AD waters. It fleeced out my my pre-conceptions of a more one dimensional character and was a major hook for me on a continuing journey. I loved it.

[Frank]

the whole Mutants in MC1, Tour of Duty, Mayor Maybe  might be the best Dredd era of all. Certainly in terms of a cohesive, ongoing narrative

Amen. Closest you'll get in terms of quality is the end of Oz to Twilight's Last Gleaming, but the scale, scope and complexity are so different it runs a very distant second.

Given Robin's reluctance to rejoin the discussion here, I'll frame the following as general observations, rather than anything that demands a response.

In Oz (prog 559), Silver says Judd made his move once 'the wars were over', but he doesn't specify which wars. Given the fact that Fargo is still alive, those wars must have been fought prior to 2051*.



* I thought there was an opportunity for total nerdgasm here, and that the war Uncle Tom refers to might be the Germ War mentioned by Red in the first episode of The Cursed Earth, but Judge Dredd's "old friend" (how's that for an anomaly!) says that happened after the Atomic War of 2070

[JOE SOAP]

In Oz (prog 559), Silver says Judd made his move once 'the wars were over', but he doesn't specify which wars. Given the fact that Fargo is still alive, those wars must have been fought prior to 2051*.

The tone of that page heavily implies the Judges are all ready in the era of total post-presidential control after the war of 2070 - Silver's reference to Fargo "slowly pulling things back together"; Judd making his case to the council of five and Fargo having the ability to exercise his veto over the idea of cloning citizens, then Silver's words "We thought we could do anything" plus a few pages later he says "The whole world was in a mess". Taken altogether it's hard to say Booth's war of 2070 is not the context.

[Frank]

The tone of that page heavily implies the Judges are all ready in the era of total post-presidential control ... it's hard to say Booth's war of 2070 is not the context

Oh yeah - that's clearly what Wagner and Grant had in mind when they wrote that page. But if you're trying to resolve the aporia it presents, the handy lack of dates means placing that scene prior to 2051 is a more elegant solution than Fargodiedbuttheykeptitasecretandthawedhimoutwhenevertheyhadaproblemthatgooglingcouldntsolveandheneededtobearoundforcontinuityreasons

I admit my preference for the simplest explanation possible stems from the fact such contradictions don't bother me at all and I don't even think they need to be addressed with an in-story solution.

I accept that places me in a tiny minority of comic readers, accustomed as they are to the conventions of US funny books*, and that they're the people who subsidise the continuing publication of work by creators I enjoy, so I should just shut up.


* I can't remember any letters to the Beano demanding to know why the repercussions of Dennis the Menace TP-ing Beanotown weren't followed up in subsequent weeks, or moaning that events in Minnie The Minx seem to happen in a separate continuity to Dennis's

[TordelBack]

I can't remember any letters to the Beano demanding to know why the repercussions of Dennis the Menace TP-ing Beanotown weren't followed up in subsequent weeks, or moaning that events in Minnie The Minx seem to happen in a separate continuity to Dennis's[/i]

Can't decide if you really mean this bit!  I'm pretty ecumenical when it comes to continuity - if I liked a story or event, it matters, if I didn't, it doesn't - but I don't think having an interest in a character or setting that develops and changes over time in a vaguely consistent manner is necessarily the product of/analogous to an American comics-reading mindset.  Certainly a good fun story is a thing unto itself, but a larger story that can come into being around those stories is simply another good thing.

[I, Cosh]

I seem to remember back in the day when there were variant covers, us loyal subbees were given both covers stapled onto the one issue...

Always thought that was a stroke of genius on Rebellion's part. Ordinary subbers feel like they've got a nice treat while the real loons need to buy both normal versions rather than just the one they didn't get in the mail.

[Banners]

We also used to get sent the occasional graphic novel too for free (or did I imagine that?)

[Steve Green]

I did have the Rain Dogs and Glimmer Rats Hardbacks through from a sub.

[moldovangerbil]

Does anyone need a copy of the Robinson cover?  Thanks to warehousing droid malfunctions, I have a spare that PICKLZ has said I can keep.  I don't need it so I'd like to pass it on to a thrill-starved fellow squaxx.

PM me only if you need it please (ie you haven't got a copy at all or if you're looking for this variant).  Please DON'T if you're looking to sell it on ebay.

[Mattofthespurs]

Does anyone need a copy of the Robinson cover?  Thanks to warehousing droid malfunctions, I have a spare that PICKLZ has said I can keep.  I don't need it so I'd like to pass it on to a thrill-starved fellow squaxx.

PM me only if you need it please (ie you haven't got a copy at all or if you're looking for this variant).  Please DON'T if you're looking to sell it on ebay.

Dammit! A day too late. Just spent a tenner on it.
Oh well, hope it goes to a good home.

[Richard]

Thanks to Robin for posting that.

Tbh, I'd have been happy with just retconning the date on Fargo's tomb, but I did enjoy the whole secret history / conspiracy / cover up thing, so it was worth it. Although ironically there's still another unresolved  discrepancy where Dredd says in Blood Cadets that Goodman wasn't chief judge until after 2079, but thee you go.

I think it would have been mad not to include Judd -- Dredd's creator -- in a story about Dredd's origins, or not to include the Judda, who first appeared in 2071, in a story about events taking place around that date.

I don't buy the argument that Silver must have been referring to a war before 2051 when he's talking to an audience of people who all appear to already know that Fargo was still alive in 2071.

[Llowellen]

Prog 2000 is sold out in the store, is there going to be another printing, or is that it?