Science is Drokking Fantastic Because...

[The Legendary Shark]

I'm glad I spelled it correctly!

[The Legendary Shark]

I'm glad I spelled it correctly!

[Link Prime]

I think that simple life is ubiquitous, complex life fairly common and intelligent complex life quite rare throughout the entire universe.

Plausible enough, Shark- I just want (any of) it proven before I die. 

[ZenArcade]

It's the proving that's the devil. Life may well be general in the Cosmos but I go with Fermi in relation to intelligent life. Z

[The Legendary Shark]

It depends what we mean by 'intelligence'. Humanity is still very primitive and stupid so it's possible we wouldn't recognise true intelligence even if we saw it. We could be like an undiscovered Amazonian tribe who only knows how to communicate over short distances by banging on trees with no concept of radio - we simply don't understand the universe around us well enough to contact, or even detect, anyone else.
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Just because we think that the only way to travel the cosmos is in starships that doesn't make it so. I reckon that the stargate or trans-warp beaming might be closer to the truth.
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It may be that we simply don't understand our own nature. The Fermi Paradox, and its proposed solutions, are all firmly rooted in "western" thinking - all maths and mechanics - and other, more esoteric solutions are generally not explored. For example, the Buddhist explanation for multiple personality disorders is that past lives are intruding on the present and that, somehow in sufferers of these disorders, the reincarnation process has gone wrong.
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Perhaps, then, we do not have the 'intelligence' to contact other races in the universe until our consciousnesses 'hatch' - when we die. Our bodies may be nothing more than very complex 'eggs' and our Earth simply an 'incubator for souls'. It could very well be that the science we all know and love is only good for describing the physical universe and is utterly valueless when it comes to explaining or even detecting higher forms of intelligence.
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Anyhoo, there are several possible solutions to the Fermi Paradox - some of them listed here: io9.com/11-of-the-weirdest-solutions-to-the-fermi-paradox-456850746
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[ZenArcade]

Mathematics a universal language is the basis of Fermi's work on this.
The universe as we see it is based on fundamental physical and
mathematical laws which have been utilised by most cultures not
only western ones. The metaphysical is also a western trait
(Angels and Demons so to speak) we do not for a minute try and apply
them to the structure of cosmology in any serious way and
I feel the same applies to the metaphysical of non western cultures
as well.
It is not the spirit which causes a planet to orbit a star: alas more prosaically it is gravity and angular momentum. Z

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Mathematics a universal language ...

Well that's debatable. There's on going argument over whether maths is something intrinsic to reality we discovered, or just something we invented to make sense of the universe

[ZenArcade]

Sorry KP I should have been more clear universal in the earth bound sense. Z
Ps are you attending our get together at the Europa on Saturday at 12ish?

[The Legendary Shark]

Exactly, we don't even try to see the universe beyond mathematics and physicality. Mathematics is a useful tool for constructing the descriptive laws of the phenomena we see around us but it may be too precise in some instances - leading to concepts such as the singularity and infinity, which may not actually exist but be artefacts produced by mathematics.
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Imagine that there is a microscopic civilisation living on a single cell inside a watermelon and that time for them passes extremely quickly - the equivalent of a million years in half a second. Now, explode that watermelon. To the microscopic civilisation the exploding watermelon is expanding quite slowly, as imperceptibly as our own universe. The microscopic scientists might well model that expansion mathematically and go way too far. Not understanding the true nature of the watermelon they project the expanding matter backwards but go too far and end up with a singularity where one never existed.
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As to the esoteric side of it, I always had a fondness for the old Arabic(?) proverb "God sleeps in the rock, dreams in the plant, stirs in the animal and awakens in man."
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Science is good but it's not everything. There is no equation describing how love feels but we know that it exists. My point is that science and mathematics might simply be an expression of our own stupidity because it seeks to quantify and explain everything and anything that it can't explain is seen as either impossible or irrelevant.
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A truly advanced civilisation might be far more interested in introspection than space exploration and not really be interested in the antics of a planet full of talking eggs at all.
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It's as good an explanation for the Fermi Paradox as any.

[ZenArcade]

Oh for F**ks sake Shark this isn't a good time....can I come back to you, I'm in the middle of prog 2015 at the moment. The argument is interesting but I can't give it the attention it deserves at the moment. All I will say in relation to the micro universe is plank's constant. Will be back on this later. Z

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Sorry KP I should have been more clear universal in the earth bound sense. Z
Ps are you attending our get together at the Europa on Saturday at 12ish?

No can do. As a barman this is a crazy busy time of year, i've no free time until Christmas eve.

As to Shark's point about zero/naught and infinity not existing,that may well be the case, but there are several abstract comcepts in maths, such as imaginary numbers and non algebraic polynomials. While they may not physically exist, out understanding of the world around us depends on them. I think it's remarkable we can undertand such things

[ZenArcade]

Remarkable indeed, we only understand because we have developed a system of thought and articulation with which to do so. Z

[The Legendary Shark]

I'm not knocking science and mathematics (I love 'em), we do need these things in order to break down and understand the universe around us. I'm not saying that we should do away with them or be suspicious of them because they can't describe what love or anger or stubbing your toe feels like. I'm just stating the blindingly obvious, really - that the universe is far more than numbers and equations on a page and that even though maths is a spookily efficient way of describing the universe that's really all it is - an abstract sketch of reality and not reality itself.
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Mathematics is important but no more so than imagination, say. In fact, I'd hazard to say that imagination may even be more important than maths because before you can invent maths you first have to imagine it. The danger, in my view, is in elevating maths to a status above what it actually is, which is just a tool - an incredibly sophisticated and useful tool but a tool nonetheless. To do so gives us things like the old Spock/Kirk argument over the morality of phrases like "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."
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So yes, maths is drokking fantastic - but it's not God.

[The Legendary Shark]

How to measure the Planck Constant yourself - using Lego!
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m.phys.org/news/2014-12-nist-physicists-watt-lego-blocks.html

[JayzusB.Christ]

One of my best friends watches Ancient Aliens on the History Channel, and believes it.  I've only seen one episode and realise immediately it's using unscientific reasoning.  But I haven't got the scientific vocabulary to explain it.  Someone help me to explain why I'M RIGHT.

He also believes that governments constantly cover up alien sightings, because he trawls the internet looking for such 'evidence'.  I don't, so I can't really argue against that, but I don't really believe it.