Science is Drokking Fantastic Because...

[Professor Bear]

I feel I should offer the counter-theory that the government of Planet X was until recently abducting random unimportant humans (who were identified as persons of interest because they fit the criteria of "two arms, two legs") and using Enhanced Probing Techniques to discover the location of our interstellar craft which obviously some random redneck has no knowledge of but we definitely have secretly stashed somewhere.  The Planet X Intelligence Agency has - after pressure from the more liberal current establishment headed by a president who is green instead of grey, not that this has anything to do with anything you understand - recently released a report on anal probing that found it has no scientific value and returns inaccurate information, so that's why there aren't as many probings happening these days, because the terrorist appeasers in the liberal cabal that runs the Planet X media have tied the hands of the political establishment and anal probing operations have been curtailed - though the previous Vice President of Planet X has continued to insist that jamming things into the ass of random bipeds was contextually justified by his administration's efforts to prevent a repeat of previous attacks by aliens, and enhanced probing is the only way to find humanity's hidden interstellar vehicles that they will one day use to travel to Planet X and probe innocent citizens, at which point the previous administration will be validated, not that those from that administration and their successors secretly hope and pray for such a terrible thing to ever happen, but if it did, they were totally right all along, and if it never happens, they're the reason why.

I saw a documentary once that backed all of this up.  It was pretty interesting, but I forget where I saw it.

[The Legendary Shark]

I think that people believe in aliens coming to save/destroy us for the same reasons that they believe in the Second Coming, Judgement Day and Barak Obama.
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They don't want to face the fact that the future of humanity has to be shaped by individual humans themselves. They feel powerless and alone and assume that everyone feels the same way and so, instead of taking responsibility for their own futures and lives, coupled with the human psychological need for leadership, transfer their hopes and fears to such outside agencies.
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Why bother doing anything at all when aliens/Jesus/Obama will be along soon to sort everything out for us? These beliefs are not only paralysing but can be positively dangerous. A president who believes in the Second Coming should be ousted immediately because he/she figures that he/she can do anything, including hitting the Big Red Button, because it doesn't matter if they shatter the world - God will put everything right in the end.
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Maybe there are aliens out there watching us (some of those exopolitics sites are truly fascinating) and maybe there aren't. Either way, it's a huge mistake to just sit back and rely upon or blame them for Everything.
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Still, when one lives in a world where a small elite seem to be in charge of everything and everyone, severely curtailing the freedoms, responsibilities and wealth of the vast majority, it's no surprise that feelings of powerlessness manifest in such beliefs.

[Professor Bear]

I can understand why some would think that outside agency is required to influence such a closed system as the human geopolitical construct we inhabit, and I don't begrudge them hoping it happens.  For many, Jesus or aliens are probably a safer bet as harbingers of paradigm change than anything they can do themselves.

[Theblazeuk]

Somewhere, a tiny green tentacled thing is convinced that fleshy pink things from outerspace will deliver them.


Loved the analogy btw.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Thank you, Sharky, that's exactly how I feel, albeit far more eloquent than I could possibly put it.

I also think that a belief in Ancient poxy Aliens assisting humanity in their greatest endeavours takes away from those endeavours.  We have huge flaws as a species, but you've got to hand it to us when it comes to inventiveness and creativity.  No matter how anomalous* a sophisticated ancient artefact may seem, it simply means that people back then were even smarter than we thought despite the information gap that surrounds whatever the piece of technology in question is.

Using Occam's razor to extract alien intervention from something like an ancient computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antikythera_mechanism), for example, doesn't detract from the wonders and marvels of such an incredible piece of work.  It means that intricate clockwork is far older than we had previously realised, and that to me is far more amazing than a very shaky assumption that we couldn't have done this on our own. 

Attributing currently-inexplicable parcels of history to the work of aliens is for me the modern-day equivalent to the old Irish belief that prehistoric burial mounds were once portals to the  fairy underworld, or that the mating calls of foxes were the screams of banshees (my own theory, and I'm prepared to be proven wrong!).  It's spooky and thrilling, and makes for great stories, but it's there because we don't have the facts.

*A word I have just discovered.

[The Legendary Shark]

My God - someone who agrees with me!!! I should have you stuffed :-D

[JayzusB.Christ]

 

The truth is, Sharky, I agree with you about many things, including your many of your pro-anarchist views - I just approach life very differently from you.  But that's politics, and belongs in another thread (to which I rarely contribute because I'm neither articulate nor informed enough).

[The Legendary Shark]

Sorry, JBC - I was only joshing and I hope you weren't offended. And don't do yourself down - you're plenty articulate enough and this is the internet: nobody on it knows what they're talking about!

[JayzusB.Christ]

Sorry, JBC - I was only joshing and I hope you weren't offended.

Good lord, man, I wasn't even slightly offended - in fact, your comments genuinely brought a smile to my face 

And my own anarchist views are largely derived from listening to some Noam Chomsky audiobooks (as well as being hugely disillusioned by the machinations of current political leaders), so all I'd be doing is quoting him. 

Anyway, back to science!  The friend I was writing about sent me links to this guy:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYgPZFst5sg.  Klaus Doner - never heard of him before, but what he is discussing here is fascinating, if a little hard to swallow (though thankfully without any extraterrestrial ramblings).  Hpwever, I can't find any counter-arguments or even much mention of him on Google - anyone know anything of his credentials?

[The Legendary Shark]

This guy?  www.unsolved-mysteries.info/
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It sucks not being able to access YouTube on this old 'phone but I seem to remember watching something by him years ago.
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Is he an advocate of the idea that mankind has achieved an advanced global society once before but that civilisation was wiped out by the Flood? I think, iIrc, that Graham Hancock holds up things like the Bimini Road in support of this idea. This ancient civilisation, he claimed, was a primarily seafaring culture with its major cities located mainly on now submerged coastal and island cities.
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I find it an intriguing idea.
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Another advocate of ancient civilisations is Richard C. Hoagland. If you want to see something really fascinating, look for some of his presentations on YouTube - start with his 1992 presentation to the United Nations.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Will do; thanks, Sharky!

I've listened to a bit of Graham Hancock alright; interesting stuff (although I'm not sure how well it holds up to scrutiny; I've heard some seriously conflicting ideas from other sources since I listened to it). 

[shaolin_monkey]

Did anyone read this article about where fat goes when we lose weight?  Absolutely fascinating, and totally unexpected!

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/where-does-your-fat-go-when-you-lose-weight

[Richmond Clements]

Another advocate of ancient civilisations is Richard C. Hoagland

Hogland? Citing Hogland as a source? That's like citing David Ike.

For example... http://www.examiner.com/article/richard-c-hoagland-says-obama-will-announce-life-on-mars-august

[The Legendary Shark]

I say only that Hoagland's presentation to the U.N. is fascinating, as are his others. Maybe there's something to his ideas and maybe not. I hope he's correct, especially about hyperdimensional physics, but I simply don't know. I don't know if any of Ike's ideas are correct or not either - but I hope they're not.
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I won't dismiss either one on the strength of my own prejudices.

[TordelBack]

Hogland? Citing Hogland as a source? That's like citing David Ike.

Aye. Can we exile Hoagland, Hancock and von Daniken to one of the many non-science her threads? They can be good fun, but have about as much to do with science as Dr Who.