Stupid things people have actually said to you.

[vzzbux]

I think one roger in enough Joe.





V

[House of Usher]

I'd say that 60% of the class appeared entranced. At one of the (many, many) breaks I commented to my neighbours that I found the whole thing immensely depressing and was rounded on fairly smartly by several of same, who apparently found the insights, err, insightful and heartening.

I am appalled.

I'm sure my bleating and snide remarks come across as crass and superior for this reason.

No at all. I recognize most of it from experience. I think I have been unemployed 6 times in 25 years, and three times I had to attend mandatory workshops and 'Job Clubs.' One of the stupidest things I remember being told repeatedly is that 80% of job vacancies aren't advertised, and on that basis one should speculatively contact every employer in the phone book: the taxpayer will cheerfully foot the bill for stationery, stamps, photocopying and phone calls. When the service providers are being paid to promote this orthodoxy they aren't going to be receptive to the suggestion that if an employer isn't advertising then they probably don't have a position to fill, or the suggestion that employers don't advertise when they know they can fill positions through their network of contacts.

It's never about helping people to get jobs. It's about making sure they are kept busy in pointless activity and not enjoying themselves too much in the time it takes them to find work. When I left the Job Club in Brighton it was to take up a postgraduate course elsewhere. The provider counted that as another client off the books, which presumably counted towards their targets, regardless of the fact it just moved my benefit claim to another town.

[staticgirl]

Tordelback - Speaking as one who had years on the dole in the 90s and who also had the misfortune to have to work at the dole straight after* ("you want a job here? Mind if you say no we cut yr dole off for refusing work...") I've seen (and felt) your frustration and anger many times. The system is not set up to cater to the professional classes as in normal times they don't tend to stay claiming for long. However, that's no excuse for the fact that we get depression and recesssion again and again and they still don't learn how to target people and provide support efficiently. There's no political will to do so at the top. People who don't work are defficient as human beings according to those in power and deserve all they get.

That's why I've never forgotten the people who are left to moulder in their own humiliation since life got easier for me and I will never fall into the tabloid trap of blaming them for their own misfortune. I get increasingly angry as life goes on rather than less. I just wish there was someone to vote for who felt the same.

*the men who had worked in skilled industrial jobs were still claiming the dole after losing their industries in the 80s and were too depressed and humiliated (and in some cases old and ill, or illiterate) to get another job in the wonderful world of computers and call centres. They broke my heart those blokes.

[House of Usher]

they still don't learn how to target people and provide support efficiently.

"It says here you're a researcher. There's a job going at the university as a researcher in microwave telecommunications. Do you want to apply for that?" and "You've done teaching and lecturing. There's a lecturing job going in the school of dentistry. What about that one?"

F***'s sake. I've got a mortgage to pay. Instead of pissing about trying to match my skills, which you don't understand, to jobs you don't understand, how about you let me know if there are any admin or retail jobs going?

[A.Cow]

It's never about helping people to get jobs. [...] The provider counted that as another client off the books, which presumably counted towards their targets.

Too right.  After a period of unemployment in the mid-'90s, I got a job training long-term unemployed people in PC maintenance.  We were pretty successful -- a quarter of the students got jobs before the end of the course ... which meant that we lost our subsidy funding because so many "failed to complete the course."

We then found an alternative funding source (different arm of the same Government department) who paid by the number of sessions attended.  Next thing the JobCentre told our students to stop attending, because the different funding source meant that the students stayed on their books while training, which messed up their targets.  (Eventually they gave in to our argument that we were helping get them into real jobs and off the books permanently.)

[Mikey]

That's why I've never forgotten the people who are left to moulder in their own humiliation since life got easier for me and I will never fall into the tabloid trap of blaming them for their own misfortune. I get increasingly angry as life goes on rather than less. I just wish there was someone to vote for who felt the same.

Well said -I totally aggree.

I'm sure my bleating and snide remarks come across as crass and superior for this reason.

It probably does to some of the people in the class! I understand your utter frustration and if I had ever been forced into a re programming job seeker training course when I was on the brew, I think I would've ended up sweating it out in the boot, me boys, an un payin guest of the queen. On the brew - great hours, shite wages I always said.

M.

[staticgirl]

Given the general air of resentment and awareness that it was just a hoop to get through to be left alone (comparatively) I experienced in similar courses, I suspect the majority of Tordelback's fellow 'students' will feel the same rather than inferior. There is often a divide between those who know perfectly well how to do all this crap but there are just not enough jobs out there for everyone and those who are sadly unable to cope with the processes of getting a job and keeping that job for a variety of reasons. Either way the course usually fails both groups.

[Emperor]

At one of the (many, many) breaks I commented to my neighbours that I found the whole thing immensely depressing and was rounded on fairly smartly by several of same, who apparently found the insights, err, insightful and heartening.

Oh dear, you have the horrible feeling they'll be off down to M&S to snap up those bargain meals, only to realise a few weeks down the line that they've solidly shot themselves in the foot.

However, the idea that you are unemployed because you haven't completely applied yourself properly does have a certain appeal, as long as you don't think to hard about it, as it means you can get a job and turn your life around by buckling down, when the problem is the economy is in the shitter and there aren't that many jobs to go around.

[TordelBack]

Being totally honest, and please Grud no-one from social services ever reads thus, I probably could get "a" job if I put my back into it.  I've done just about everything at one time or another, from kitchen porter to wine waiter to shed-painter to college lecturer to AV technician to toilet cleaner, I'm sure I could find something.

The real problem is I'm quite keen on getting a job that doesn't mean starting from scratch at 41: a 'Job Bridge' position (that's €50 plus dole) or minimum wage job with long hours* would literally mean (after transport costs) paying all of my wages to strangers to look after my kids.  I'm sorry, but I don't see the appeal, or the future, in that. I've got two kids under 6 and 30 more years of (potential) work ahead of me - I need to do something viable in the long-term.

Instead, I've been 'upskilling' (-bleurgh-) frantically since my business went under, doing several computer courses and other professional training (at my own expense) and self-taught projects, and I had thought I'd be able to get by as self-employed doing casual bits and pieces - despite innumerable proposals and quotes, various nibbles and too-much on-spec work, this just hasn't worked out.  Yet.  All this is with a view to getting back into the heritage area, where at least I'm experienced and frankly good at what I do, and know the ropes and the pitfalls.

This ghastly course I've committed to was the least-worst option, promising as it did to address the 'professional' markey and get me back into the interviewing/CV/application/online networking swing of things, which after 12 years in the same job and a grand total of two job interviews in my entire life (both for the same job, as it happens), it seemed like a least-bad idea.  It was certainly better than the first options put in front of me: re-training as an Architect (archaeologist, architect, do you see what they did there? Never mind that architects are about the only profession as completely screwed as archaeologists), or a 10-week Introduction to Microsoft Office (a package I've been reluctantly using daily since before it was Microsoft Office). 

So I'm complaining a lot, but believe me, it could be worse: I had to do a course, or lose my benefits, there were 60 applicants for this 20 place course, and I've been on a waiting list for 3 months.  It's just the basic aimless box-ticking crapness of the reality it, despite the decent folk involved, that leads me to this endless whining.

Anyway, up later this week, it's Psychological Profiling and Aptitude Assessment time!   I'll keep you posted.


* There's also the seemingly endless problem of responsibly dismantling my previous company, which occupies most of my evenings and many weekends in solitary archiving, labeling and spreadsheet contemplation.

[Roger Godpleton]

Giving old men sponge baths counts as "heritage" in my book.

[TordelBack]

Giving old men sponge baths counts as "heritage" in my book.

As long as I'm the old man in question, I completely agree with you.

[House of Usher]

Anyway, up later this week, it's Psychological Profiling and Aptitude Assessment time!   I'll keep you posted.

Roll on the Myers-Briggs half-baked Jungian codswallop! 

[Roger Godpleton]

It's good you showed up, David. Tordelback needs a bath.

[TordelBack]

Respect my heritage!  Respect it rhythmically, with a soapy flannel.

[House of Usher]

But Roger, Mr Tordelback was asking for you specifically. He's heard you're good.