It's the Xmas prog! Interesting one with only one jump-on story, and that is resuming half way through. All other new stories are one and done.
Cool madcap droidtastic cover from the Robinson-Teague team.
Dredd is a spooky Rico episode with portents and ghosts of [not Xmas] past - Tom Foster being his most Cliff Robinson. This is mainly teasing us about things to come. Nicely done though.
Azimuth is back with a bang and with an ending that feels a bit like fan service... and I loved it! It's very exciting, looks great and I couldn't be happier! Art absolutely sterling.
An Anderson one off and Our Cass is younger than ever, as is the rest of Psi Div, in a competently executed one-off. It's set in 2145, the same year as the Dredd tale. Anderson looks about 16.
And a new writer on Strontium Dog. Starts well but segues into something a bit wordy... and ends up a bit too on the nose for me. Cornwell auditioning to take on another Ezquerra strip? He's done great on Spector, which has really grown on me, I'd be happy to see him an extended go on Johnny.
The rest of the prog is a Rogue one-off, and the continuation of the Helium, Devil's Railroad, Enemy Earth, and Feral and Foe strips, to be read.
I got mine this morning. Early! But is still don't have 2361. Argh!
Not sure how it feels having a Christmas prog as a continuation prog like this. It doesn't quite scream 'special' in the same way really. That said, there are some quality tales here to make up for things.
Niemand and Foster's Dredd strip pays more attention to Rico than to Dredd himself although arguably as the Dead Man makes an appearance it could be argued that he is there, albeit in spirit / hallucination form. Rogue Trooper is another strong one although possibly more because of Coleby's artwork than the strength of the story itself. Both are stand-alone tales which does help although in both cases they draw on old material. Not necessarily a critical flaw but it's possible readers less familiar might find the tales less satisfying. Anderson is another tale that works well but lacks something to really lift it.
Would have to agree with Fink on Azimuth. The artwork is top-notch even if the story is now straying more and more into matrix territory. We'll just have to see where things go. I'd also have to agree with the position on Stront. A bit of a mixed bag and the sudden shift in artwork threw me briefly. Certainly it is true to Johnny's character as we've seen countless times through the years. He's always been one to stand up against bullies and this was no exception.
Helium is just rattling merrily along as the world is expanded once again. D'israeli's artwork is as sumptuous as ever as Space Battleship Yamato makes an appearance! Cue another plot twist.
As for Enemy Earth. Not sure why this has turned out to be as disappointing as it has. That early glimpse was exciting and intriguing. Somewhere along the way it seems to have lost things. Whether it is this 'alien threat' direction or the artwork, I'm not sure. Perhaps I need to go back and try again, see if I can recapture that lost appreciation.
Devil's Railroad is one that just hasn't really captivated right from the off. Nothing really specific to put my finger on, as with EE. I guess it is just one of those types of stories that I don't connect with.
Rounding out with Feral and Foe though, things are as chaotic as ever. This whole series has kindled a far greater appreciation of the strip with plenty of humorous nods to D&D. It's also helped that some of the expectations about characters have been upended as the tale has progressed. Bit of an info-dump episode but executed well ...
Overall then, a reasonable Christmas prog but not one of the strongest.
Forgot to mention Fiends of the Eastern Front which is reminiscent of Mignola. Beautifully drawn by Trevallion - a good short story.
Cover by Cliff Robinson and Dylan Teague:
(https://www.comicbooknews.co.uk/img/2000AD/2023/2000%20AD%20Prog%202362_cover.webp)
Not read it yet, but just wanted to say it's great having it so early - last year it was late January when the Xmas prog arrived!
I love the cover.
I've kind of read it but I need to read it again to absorb all of it. I wasn't really sure what was happening in SD but i liked the art.
Bit of an oddball this year, with some much of the Prog continuing through the special. The lack of a letters page (a first in the Christmas Prog?) threw me, as did the paucity of features. Honestly, I miss the cover retrospectives from the old annual.
The actual cover, though, is fantastic. And Droid Life was excellent, with some amusingly dark humour. I liked the Dredd with its riff on A Christmas Carol, but it did feel like a continuity bridge. And as for continuity, Grud knows what's going on with that Azimuth reveal. Still, it was an enjoyable read, even if presumably baffling for newcomers. (Next to the final page, The Out: Book Four advert. Yay!)
Echoing others, Anderson and chums all looking like kids was a bit weird, but the story was solid enough. In a sense, it fittingly felt like an old annual one-shot. Fiends, though, took things up a level, and for me was the highlight of the Prog: creepy, 'festive' with a twist, and with some stunning art. Wonderful stuff.
Strontium Dog... So I'm always a bit twitchy when this strip is resurrected, given that Wagner's not returning and Ezquerra's sadly gone. But the reality is it won't be gone forever. And if it is to return in whatever form, it needs to be in good hands. Cornwell's a known quantity, but is this Rufus Hound's first comic strip? If so, big boots to fill.
In a sense, it's two strips in one. The B+W section gets the feel of the leads right. It perhaps intensifies the nature of their relationship, but it didn't feel like one of those old annual strips where everything felt off. And then there's the trippy mid-section (with some foreign text I couldn't identify, but assume must be Norse – it certainly translates from Icelandic though). This felt very different from Stront, and more like a short tale Hound wanted to tell.
In all, I liked this one a lot. It was different. It wasn't trying to be Wagner Strontium Dog. But it also felt like it existed in the same universe.
Next up, Wessel perhaps had an easier time of it with Rogue, and the story was much more straightforward. Again, I thought this all worked very well, and the art was – unsurprisingly – stellar from Coleby.
At which point, we returned to our standard programming:
Helium shoved yet more twists into the mix to make life tricky for its protagonists. Enemy Earth is for me still a solid read. Devil's Railroad still feels clumsy as hell and I don't care about anyone in it. And Feral & Foe continues to be fun and silly, which makes it very readable but I felt this week started to undermine any sense of peril, in much the same way quippy MCU movies do.
Anyway. Overall a very good Prog, if a slightly weird end-of-year Prog.
Fiends > Helium > Strontium Dog > Rogue Trooper > Droid Life > Azimuth > Feral > Dredd > Anderson > Enemy Earth > Devil's Railroad
'Right, let's get this done! The night is short and I have toddlers to fry!'
Classic.
A very awkward year-end prog where nothing new starts as per normal but we do get is a lot of strips that are at the end of their respective runs and 6 stand-alone stories. If you are a new reader this is not the best jump-on point. Overall, it was a good xmas prog not the best but 8 of the stories were on song but 2 was certainly bubbling under. We also get a very much jam pack prog without anything but strips no articles at all and two great ads for what is coming.
Dredd – Interesting story with no Dredd in the story at all. This is more a setup story than a xmas story, but we do have some ghosts of the Dredd-verse.
Azimuth – Tazio's art is excellent. The story is all about the build up to a climax and then we have a reveal. Not sure where Abnett is taking this, but I think we are in for a wild ride.
Anderson – A very enjoyable one shot. Anderson is up against a very powerful PSI who controls people to do some bad stuff, especially using children. Justy one thing is that Anderson again is drawn as a hot babe, but the timeline is never established here so let's just live with it.
Fiends – Excellent story, excellent art just loved this one. The highlight of the prog. Hopefully the next arc can continue sooner than later.
Strontium Dog – Let's start with the art first. I believe that Dan Cornwell can take the mantle forward, his art feels like the real deal. The story, however, was not a Johnny story and felt very much anti him. We all know that he does not show mercy to those who are unjust but, in this story, he literally murders a person for his ideology and then laughs about it.
Rogue – A good straight forward story that just tell us another tale off the brutality on Nu-Earth. This one is more focus on the Norts but not in a bad way. The story is boosted by the great art of Simon Colbey (he can the old master Cam is by favorite Nu-Earth artists).
Helium – The chase is coming to an end with our heroes trying every trick in the book, but we have a lifeline but with some strings attached. A good read as always.
Enemy Earth – So the story now has steered towards another venue as we move from The Walking Dead towards Independence Day.
Railroad – I am still struggling to really care for any of the characters, the story just is not working for me.
Feral and Foe – We are now getting closer to our questions and our characters might need a few level-ups before they can continue facing the final hurdle. A good read as Anbett continues to brew more dungeon-crawling antics.
B/W Cover:
(https://2000ad.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/2023-XMAS-COVER-11-720x1024.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/GdYfIdU.jpg)
Only read Azimuth.
I'd love to discuss what the implications of the ending is, but I think that really needs spoiler tags, but don't see them anymore.
Have they been removed?
They stopped working during one of the forum upgrades. Maybe start another thread, clearly marked with spoilers? (Although, TBH, I'd argue that if you're dipping into a thread about a specific magazine and haven't read it yet, you've kind of only got yourself to blame if you spot spoilers...)
Quote from: Magnetica on 13 December, 2023, 11:14:27 AMOnly read Azimuth.
I'd love to discuss what the implications of the ending is, but I think that really needs spoiler tags, but don't see them anymore.
Have they been removed?
Stick SPOILERS at the top of your post and have at it, I say. I thought it was a great twist, but didn't realise the Meg and Dexter's timelines were so intertwined. I've not read much of sindex though.
Quote from: broodblik on 13 December, 2023, 07:14:11 AMAnderson again is drawn as a hot babe, but the timeline is never established here so let's just live with it.
The intro blurb on the contents page gives the same year as Dredd - 2145.
I know it's a bit silly to care, but still.
Quote from: Le Fink on 13 December, 2023, 02:51:16 PMQuote from: broodblik on 13 December, 2023, 07:14:11 AMAnderson again is drawn as a hot babe, but the timeline is never established here so let's just live with it.
The intro blurb on the contents page gives the same year as Dredd - 2145.
I know it's a bit silly to care, but still.
A continuity nerd writes: that's Anderson's daughter. Try to keep up. :D
Quote from: Funt Solo [Rlink=msg=1108384 (tel:1108384) date=1702481036]
A continuity nerd writes: that's Anderson's daughter. Try to keep up. :D
Ha. I remember this being said about Henry Flint's recent Anderson. This one is even younger! Has the original Anderson popped back into the Proteus and jumped 38 years?
Quote from: Le Fink on 13 December, 2023, 02:47:44 PMQuote from: Magnetica on 13 December, 2023, 11:14:27 AMOnly read Azimuth.
I'd love to discuss what the implications of the ending is, but I think that really needs spoiler tags, but don't see them anymore.
Have they been removed?
Stick SPOILERS at the top of your post and have at it, I say. I thought it was a great twist, but didn't realise the Meg and Dexter's timelines were so intertwined. I've not read much of sindex though.
###### MASSIVE SPOILERS #######
They're not, and that's kinda the point. Up to now there has been no connection at all between Downlode and the world of Judge Dredd.
And now....is the implication meant to be that Azimuth is a simulated world inside Downlode that itself is simulated world within Dredd's world?
I kinda hope not, because that would basically be retconning the whole of Sinister Dexter.
Hopefully there's some other explanation for this, and I'm reading waaaay too much into it.
Can't wait to find out - the next series can't come soon enough.
###### MASSIVE SPOILERS #######
There is actually precedence for this sort of malarkey in Sin Dex. See "Now & Again" from capital-P Prog 2012. They dimension-hop from MC-1 to Flesh to Nu Earth to Dante to Strontium Dog to Kingdom to nowhere at all.
I thought it was the final Sin Dex story, and it could have been.
On the other hand, this could be (as you said) something else entirely.
###### MASSIVE SPOILERS #######
If it turns out that the Dredd-verse and Downlode is the same world then that will be a pity. It can also be one of the popular themes these days: multiverse/alternative dimensions. These themes are their for being lazy and not needing to write a proper explanation of events and justify illogical events. But in Abnett I trust to deliver something different bring on then next chapter sooner than later.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 13 December, 2023, 10:05:51 PM###### MASSIVE SPOILERS #######
There is actually precedence for this sort of malarkey in Sin Dex. See "Now & Again" from capital-P Prog 2012. They dimension-hop from MC-1 to Flesh to Nu Earth to Dante to Strontium Dog to Kingdom to nowhere at all.
It's pretty well established (I think) that the Sin/Dex multiverse encompasses pretty much the entire 2000AD canon amongst its alternates, in the 2012 end of year prog you mention, but also when all these folks turn up during a dimension hop.
(https://i.imgur.com/3XQzW68.jpg)
(Image of the original art thieved from Pete Wells' Comic Art Fans page, because I couldn't find the published version online anywhere. In the published version, Zenith and Big Dave were covered by captions because the rights to Zenith were still in dispute at the time, and the rights to Big Dave were returned to the creators years earlier.)
My memory is a bit hazy on the story where the original 'Andi' appeared, but aren't they
also an alternate-universe version of the character...?
# # # # # # MASSIVE SPOILERS # # # # # # #
Thanks Jim, I'd forgotten about that.
So that explains it, it's some alternative universe version of Anderson.
But, what this also means is, all 2000AD stories, at least in the Dan Abnett version, are taking place in alternative realities that could be in theory be travelled to by anyone with appropriate dimension jump tech.
But it's largely ignored, certainly for "normal' stories.
So it's not a retcon of the whole of SinDex. Which is great.
Garth Ennis "Helter Skelter" story in progs 1250-1261 canonised the idea that all 2000AD stories are different alternate dimensions that can crossover with Mega City One given the right Dimension Hopping mcguffins, and last years "Judgement Days" used the same concept as the basis for it's own crossover madness. So this kind of thing has been possible for some time.
Anderson using psychic magic to cross dimensions has been done a few times too (IIRC, she physically linked to Judge Death while he was floating around in a void dimension), so it's not too wild to think she might have linked to Azimuth that way.
I have a hard time counting anything that happened in Helter Skelter as canon. 😂
Dredd and Anderson crossing over to Deadworld is one thing. Let's call that the Dredd multiverse.
All 2000AD universes being connected as another thing; that's a 2000AD multiverse.
Quote from: dan200 on 14 December, 2023, 02:51:57 PMAnderson using psychic magic to cross dimensions has been done a few times too
When she bonded with an angel during End of Days she seemed capable of dimension-hopping and perhaps time travel. (How she transformed back from angel-Anderson to normal Anderson was hand-waved away between the pages.)
+++AZIMUTH SPOILERS++
Sorry to double-post, and it's probably not relevant - but the Cassandra in Azimuth is bald. The last time I recall seeing a bald Anderson was when she was comatose during Half-Life.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 14 December, 2023, 03:38:09 PM+++AZIMUTH SPOILERS++
Sorry to double-post, and it's probably not relevant - but the Cassandra in Azimuth is bald. The last time I recall seeing a bald Anderson was when she was comatose during Half-Life.
I think the baldness is a red herring. (Please keep in mind that I have literally no inside info on this.)
The
uniform, however, appeared in 'Satan' when Satan tried to persuade Anderson to become his herald. In that story, Anderson said no... but perhaps we might infer that
this version said
yes...(https://i.imgur.com/GClxFI3.jpg)
(Which might make things... interesting.)
* immediately checks Anderson's feet for hooves *
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 December, 2023, 03:57:10 PMThe uniform, however, appeared in 'Satan'
Oh, shit! Well spotted, Jim.
I was beginning to wonder if I was the only person who'd recognised that (rather distinctive) uniform.
Well I settled down for a lengthy, long awaited, Zarjag festive read..
And was disappointed.
Dredd was well splendid, and strangely SinDex was top notch too, the best its been since it started IMHO.
Anderson was entry level stuff in both art and story. While Rogue's Nort speak almost had me reaching for the Babbel button, but thought, really why introduce this double speak now after all these years?
Everything else seemed, well, weekly and lacking that 'annual'feel.
Dissapointed of Edinbra.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 14 December, 2023, 04:43:09 PMQuote from: Jim_Campbell on 14 December, 2023, 03:57:10 PMThe uniform, however, appeared in 'Satan'
Oh, shit! Well spotted, Jim.
Quote from: M.I.K. on 14 December, 2023, 06:37:01 PMI was beginning to wonder if I was the only person who'd recognised that (rather distinctive) uniform.
Of course, maybe I was, 'cos Jim probably read where it was from in the story's script, seeing as how he lettered the blooming [/RaymondBriggsSpeak] thing.
Quote from: M.I.K. on 17 December, 2023, 04:22:15 PMOf course, maybe I was, 'cos Jim probably read where it was from in the story's script, seeing as how he lettered the blooming [/RaymondBriggsSpeak] thing.
TBH, I always take a sneaky peek at the art before I get into the script, and I recognised the uniform as a callback to a Ranson Anderson straight away... I did have to double check exactly which story, though — my memory circuits aren't what they used to be!
+++SPOILERS JUST IN CASE SOMEONE'S GOT THIS FAR INTO THE THREAD WITHOUT READING ANY OF THE WORDS++
I knew it was the bit where Satan proposes that Anderson becomes Silver Surfer to his Galactus which, now I think about it, might explain the bald heid.
I'm not quite as much of a traditionalist as it didn't especially bother me the prog wasn't wall-to-wall Christmas strips. Or that in fact there was only one properly Christmas-themed story in the entire issue! Also, with all this discussion of whether the Christmas issue should be a jumping-on prog, it's interesting that the lead story, a one-off tailored for the prog, should contain so many continuity references so as surely to thoroughly confound any new readers who may have strayed into the pages. And no actual Joe Dredd. Still, good stuff for those of us in the know, though it was a brave decision by the Foster droid to provide a faithful rendition of Rico (Snr.) Dredd's very, uh, dated 70's bouffant.
Elsewhere Azimuth, Strontium Dog, Helium and Feral & Foe were all top-notch thrills. I'm totally on board with the Azimuth reveal - in fact if anything it's a bit disappointing that with the costume, it seems to be a reference to previous events. To my mind it certainly looks exactly like the sort of thing [redacted] would choose to wear if they were to port themselves into a world of virtual reality! If the strip does decide to go full-on GGC multi-verse it'll be a proper 2000 AZ (Ay (to) Zee) -imuth. No, it doesn't really work. Sorry.
Also, it's funny how my internal ranking of Dan Abnett's current stories fluctuates. A year ago I'd have had Brink and The Out as the top two but now, Feral & Foe and Azimuth(/SinDex) are definitely my faves. 'Faves!' How 70's.
Love the trip that Rufus Hound took us on in Strontium Dog. The opening frames seem to riff on the short montage of shared cabin (in)action in the Search and Destroy fan movie (and the denouement, that bit from Hot Fuzz). Perhaps the events at the end were a bit disjointed from the previous narrative. Also, did I miss the reason why the Mukjol (?) bar made Johnny hallucinate? Was it spiked?
TOP THRILL though goes to the only strip that plays it by the book (as log as the book is 'How to write great Christmas-themed comic strips') - 'Silent Knight' is ten pages of absolute bliss. It's been too long since we had a Tiernen Trevallion decapitation panel! And yes, "The night is short and I've got toddlers to fry" goes straight into the compendium of classic 2000 AD one-liners. T-shirt please, Tharg!
Do I just have deja vu, or have we previously seen another story where someone was decapitated in exactly the same way as in Alpha?
Quote from: Richard on 18 December, 2023, 09:50:11 PMDo I just have deja vu, or have we previously seen another story where someone was decapitated in exactly the same way as in Alpha?
Maybe
Cult of the Thugee from 1991's Judge Dredd Mega-Special?
(https://i.imgur.com/VbxEm87.png)
The quality was high overall, mainly due to the high standard of the stories spilling over (Helium, Railroad, Feral) plus Azimuth and a Dredd that teases some big doings in the future.........
But it really didn't feel like the same ms of year/Xmas Prog that I look forward to reading every year. I feel this annual issue is great place to kick off new stories as it's like opening a present, and often I talk one or two friends into picking it up because it's a great chance to 'jump on'.
Further positive would be that Torunn Gronbekk, after doing a terrific job on Battle, delivered the best Anderson I think I've read since Alan Grant. One of my favourite characters but the choices of scribe have been pretty mediocre for a long time not. I'd love to see Gronbekk get more regular work and maybe an extended Anderson, she's clearly got the chops for it.
On the downside I thought Rufus Hound's Strontium Dog was awful. I hope that's his last. I'd rather see the strip retired if that's the future of it. I like Hound, but this was not a Strontium Dog strip, just felt like he has some stuff he wanted to say and used this as a vehicle and dragged the Prog into this culture war crap that it manages to avoid most of the time. 2000ad remains one of the last bastions of escapism from conversations that dominate social media and now a lot of mainstream media, I'd rather it stayed that way.
Other than that, it felt disjointed, pointless and out of character. Devil's Railroad handles a topical subject with far greater skill, as we expect from a writer of Milligan's talent. If you are going to do this stuff do execute it cleverly.
Rogue Trooper was all a bit nothingy, which is par for course for Wessel to date.
I skip Enemy Earth.
As much as I'm loving Helium, Feral and Foe, and Devil's Railroad, it feels odd not starting the new year with a clean raft of strips.
For me Strontium Dog read like it was written by someone whom never read any Strontium Dog stories by Wagner/Grant. This is one of my major gripes with most stories these days based upon established IP disregard the history and its lore.
Quote from: HeidTheBaw on 19 December, 2023, 12:50:27 PMand dragged the Prog into this culture war crap that it manages to avoid most of the time. 2000ad remains one of the last bastions of escapism from conversations that dominate social media and now a lot of mainstream media, I'd rather it stayed that way.
It's difficult to know what you're actually complaining about here, because you've been quite non-specific. My knee-jerk reaction is to look at the things being attacked in the strip - the most obvious of which are domestic violence and the rise of fascism. The thing is - Strontium Dog has always been a story in which Alpha fights for the underdog against whoever is bullying them, and one of the core themes of the strip has always been prejudice against "the other", and the battle against fascism (see Portrait of a Mutant, for example).
In a wider lens, 2000 AD has most often leaned against authoritarianism or thuggery. For examples, you can read this year's Void Runners, Helium, The Night Shifter, Portals & Black Goo, The Out or Proteus Vex. Going back a ways, there's Nemesis as a core example.
So, I'm a bit confused as to what the actual complaint is. I think, partly, that's a problem of modern language around politics. If someone complains about the "culture war", it's not clear what they're complaining about. If someone dislikes "wokeism", I don't know what they dislike. They're dog whistles.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 19 December, 2023, 04:03:48 PMQuote from: HeidTheBaw on 19 December, 2023, 12:50:27 PMIn a wider lens, 2000 AD has most often leaned against authoritarianism or thuggery. For examples, you can read this year's Void Runners, Helium, The Night Shifter, Portals & Black Goo, The Out or Proteus Vex. Going back a ways, there's Nemesis as a core example.
I notice you didn't mention Judge Dredd, a much more ambiguous example. Whilst it's obvious to me that John Wagner never intended Dredd to be a "hero" in the conventional sense, I can see why some have interpreted it as a pro-fascist strip. I think the people who have written Dredd over the years have sometimes taken it for granted that people would disagree with Mega-City One's authoritarian politics.
Corrected version with the quotes not messed up:
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 19 December, 2023, 04:03:48 PMIn a wider lens, 2000 AD has most often leaned against authoritarianism or thuggery. For examples, you can read this year's Void Runners, Helium, The Night Shifter, Portals & Black Goo, The Out or Proteus Vex. Going back a ways, there's Nemesis as a core example.
I notice you didn't mention Judge Dredd, a much more ambiguous example. Whilst it's obvious to me that John Wagner never intended Dredd to be a "hero" in the conventional sense, I can see why some have interpreted it as a pro-fascist strip. I think the people who have written Dredd over the years have sometimes taken it for granted that people would disagree with Mega-City One's authoritarian politics.
Quote from: nxylas on 19 December, 2023, 06:06:28 PMI notice you didn't mention Judge Dredd, a much more ambiguous example. Whilst it's obvious to me that John Wagner never intended Dredd to be a "hero" in the conventional sense, I can see why some have interpreted it as a pro-fascist strip. I think the people who have written Dredd over the years have sometimes taken it for granted that people would disagree with Mega-City One's authoritarian politics.
Yes. Thanks to social media, we now know there's a portion of fans who either don't realise Dredd isn't supposed to be a hero, or just don't care. The more authoritarian and reactionary he is, the happier they seem to be.
Quote from: nxylas on 19 December, 2023, 06:06:28 PMI notice you didn't mention Judge Dredd
If you think I omitted Dredd because it's secretly a hotbed of pro-fascist support, you're barking up the wrong tree. (One might even suggest that the population of Battersea Dogs Home has escaped to the forest and are all barking up all the trees.) Sure, there will be some viewers of, say, Starship Troopers that don't realize it's an allegory and a critique (perhaps even cheering along at all the bug-stomping). That doesn't mean I would avoid talking about Starship Troopers in terms of it's actual aims.
To return to the point - do you really think 2000 AD, given the points I've already made, is pro-fascist? Did you think that the Stront story in this prog was "culture war crap"? Do you know what "culture war crap" actually means in the context it was used by Heid?
---
(Culture war carp is slapping Sunak in the face with a fish every time he says "stop the boats".)
I've just noticed the end of Fiends says "Constanta will return in Wilde West- coming soon".
Oh ok, but we had the prologue to that back in Prog 2310, before last year's Xmas issue. Presumably it was meant to run this year, but got delayed.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 19 December, 2023, 04:03:48 PMQuote from: HeidTheBaw on 19 December, 2023, 12:50:27 PMand dragged the Prog into this culture war crap that it manages to avoid most of the time. 2000ad remains one of the last bastions of escapism from conversations that dominate social media and now a lot of mainstream media, I'd rather it stayed that way.
It's difficult to know what you're actually complaining about here, because you've been quite non-specific. My knee-jerk reaction is to look at the things being attacked in the strip - the most obvious of which are domestic violence and the rise of fascism. The thing is - Strontium Dog has always been a story in which Alpha fights for the underdog against whoever is bullying them, and one of the core themes of the strip has always been prejudice against "the other", and the battle against fascism (see Portrait of a Mutant, for example).
In a wider lens, 2000 AD has most often leaned against authoritarianism or thuggery. For examples, you can read this year's Void Runners, Helium, The Night Shifter, Portals & Black Goo, The Out or Proteus Vex. Going back a ways, there's Nemesis as a core example.
So, I'm a bit confused as to what the actual complaint is. I think, partly, that's a problem of modern language around politics. If someone complains about the "culture war", it's not clear what they're complaining about. If someone dislikes "wokeism", I don't know what they dislike. They're dog whistles.
I doubt very much you are confused as to what I'm referring to. The guy on the stage who is a thinly veiled cipher for your Jordan Peterson types.
Yes, 2000ad has always had a reputation for satire and left leaning anti establishment vibes, part of the reason the comic and it's creators have become such an influence over the course of my lifetime reading - but almost always done skilfully or with high quality wit........ I don't recall anything so heavy handed as seeing Johnny delighted at a guy getting his head caved in because he talked some shit on a stage.
Quote from: broodblik on 19 December, 2023, 03:18:00 PMFor me Strontium Dog read like it was written by someone whom never read any Strontium Dog stories by Wagner/Grant. This is one of my major gripes with most stories these days based upon established IP disregard the history and its lore.
Agreed.
See also Devlin Waugh in recent years
Quote from: HeidTheBaw on 19 December, 2023, 08:40:44 PM...I don't recall anything so heavy handed as seeing Johnny delighted at a guy getting his head caved in because he talked some shit on a stage.
Heavy handed...
Really?*Gestures broadly at Pat Mills entire feckin' oeuvre*
Quote from: HeidTheBaw on 19 December, 2023, 08:43:12 PMSee also Devlin Waugh in recent years
Really? I thought Ales Kot's handling of the character in his most recent outings has been
excellent.
Quote from: HeidTheBaw on 19 December, 2023, 08:40:44 PMI doubt very much you are confused as to what I'm referring to. The guy on the stage who is a thinly veiled cipher for your Jordan Peterson types.
Thank you for explaining what you meant. I genuinely was confused because (as mentioned) the phrase "culture war" is often too broad for me to understand - especially in a case where there are various ways it could be used. I wasn't to know if you were referring to the casual domestic violence, the call-to-organized enslavement of women, the general homoerotic undertones of the main characters, the belief in a supreme being or the focus on Sigyn in the tale of Loki. They're all cultural, and potentially controversial.
I take it you're against misogynists, but you would rather that if they were criticized that they be criticized in a more subtle way?
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 19 December, 2023, 10:43:45 PMQuote from: HeidTheBaw on 19 December, 2023, 08:43:12 PMSee also Devlin Waugh in recent years
Really? I thought Ales Kot's handling of the character in his most recent outings has been excellent.
I feel like Kot's been really one-note with his take on Waugh, it's just one ongoing double entendre veering towards edgelord territory (which is not something I'm against in general, but Smith used that angle more sporadically and the effect was a lot greater to me).
Maybe I just really miss Smith.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 19 December, 2023, 10:56:33 PMI take it you're against misogynists, but you would rather that if they were criticized that they be criticized in a more subtle way?
I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but from what I read it seems more like the complaint was over a general malaise with the overt crowbarring into literature, and culture in general, of the so-called culture war phenomena of recent times; your wokeism, formerly social justice warriorism, and before that third-wave feminism tropes intruding into the forefront of public consciousness where it previously hadn't been.
Of course I don't think this is the case, at least not to the extent that it might seem, since social politics has always been a player in culture for as long as there has been culture. It's just that now there so much social change around those aforementioned areas and its extremely rapid adoption by the mainstream is almost a culture shock to some.
We're riding a socio-political pendulum which overswings back and forth at the moment. It'll settle down in time and we'll all look back and wonder what all the fuss was about.
To be fair, it probably wasn't really necessary to show an attempted domestic rape in front of a child just to make the point that misogynists are bad people.
QuoteMaybe Cult of the Thugee from 1991's Judge Dredd Mega-Special?
Thanks for finding that, but I'm thinking specifically of one where two hammers falling in opposite directions collide with someone's head between them.
Quote from: Richard on 19 December, 2023, 11:19:40 PMQuoteMaybe Cult of the Thugee from 1991's Judge Dredd Mega-Special?
Thanks for finding that, but I'm thinking specifically of one where two hammers falling in opposite directions collide with someone's head between them.
Donnie Wahlberg in Saw IV comes to mind.
Quote from: Richard on 19 December, 2023, 11:13:57 PMTo be fair, it probably wasn't really necessary to show an attempted domestic rape in front of a child just to make the point that misogynists are bad people.
On the other hand, it did a good job of reflecting back on Alpha's own childhood, which also demonstrates that the complaint that the writer hadn't done their research and wasn't playing true to the characters was a bit of an empty complaint.
If you check statistics, you find that domestic abuse-related crimes are on the rise in the UK, so I'm not sure how it would be helpful to brush it under the carpet. Indeed, that's probably one of the reasons it's on the rise - because it is often a hidden crime, and it's difficult to prosecute. Quite brave of 2000 AD to highlight it. We should probably be lauding them, rather than criticizing them, I'm sure we'd all agree. Unless...
That's a fair point too. I suppose I'm just more used to seeing that sort of thing in the Megazine than in the prog.
The notion Kot's work is one-note is quite something to me. The character aligns with Smith's, bar chunks of Red Tide (which is relentlessly miserable) and the scripts and strips have been varied in tone. Waugh's cleverness has been played up somewhat, perhaps (what with the manoeuvring of the football team, etc), but this feels like Devlin Waugh to me.
Rufus Hound is interviewed in the Meg this month and goes into the inspirations and reasonings for his tale. He did his research (I missed the reference to The Killing at the start, one of my fave Stront tales) and put the work in, starting with a crash course on comics writing from Alex de Campi.
Having re-read the story because of all this debate it has grown on me. The relationship between the two men is sweetly told, and yes the jump between the threatened boy and Alpha as a child is excellent. Kudos to Cornwell too, he has to jump around a lot. And yes on reflection it is brave and timely. It's still a bit on the nose and for me, a bit verbose in places, so maybe fewer words next time please Rufus and perhaps give a regular Search/Destroy adventure a try?
Quote from: Le Fink on 20 December, 2023, 08:56:27 AMperhaps give a regular Search/Destroy adventure a try?
Yes this it what I'd like, regardless of who's writing it. If there are going to be occasional Strontium Dog stories, I would really love it if they just went back to Johnny has a warrant for the bad guy (or gal) and has to hunt them down on a back water planet. Like it used to be at the very start of the strip. With a twist of course.
Quote from: Funt Solo [Rlink=msg=1108693 (tel:1108693) date=1703033137]
Quote from: Richard on 19 December, 2023, 11:13:57 PMTo be fair, it probably wasn't really necessary to show an attempted domestic rape in front of a child just to make the point that misogynists are bad people.
On the other hand, it did a good job of reflecting back on Alpha's own childhood, which also demonstrates that the complaint that the writer hadn't done their research and wasn't playing true to the characters was a bit of an empty complaint.
If you check statistics, you find that domestic abuse-related crimes are on the rise in the UK, so I'm not sure how it would be helpful to brush it under the carpet. Indeed, that's probably one of the reasons it's on the rise - because it is often a hidden crime, and it's difficult to prosecute. Quite brave of 2000 AD to highlight it. We should probably be lauding them, rather than criticizing them, I'm sure we'd all agree. Unless...
I chose to ignore this last time because I couldn't be bothered, but that's your second insinuation now; that because someone felt a strip was too heavy handed they support misogynistic behaviour. I'm sure your next move will be to gaslight this with a hand wave and ask why I would think that.
This discussion is precisely one of the reasons I don't like writers who lack the ability to weave their commentary through the narrative with a bit more skill. See Devil's Railroad in the same Prog for how it's done, and we are still all very much aware that Milligan is focussing on immigration and the abuse of people stuck within that system that goes with it.
Interesting to note that Hound went to Di Campi for a crash course in writing a comic strip, maybe if he chose his mentor better the entire strip would have had a decent structure rather than being all over the place. But I digress.
I wrote a brief comment on every single strip, this is the one you have chose to hone in on, and not only that, continue to pursue further response rather than accept the reasoning I've already provided.
Reading back through the thread I can see 3 others commenting that they found the strip too heavy handed (and disjointed) so I'm clearly not alone.
Now, I hope you'll excuse me as I have a Klan rally to attend and id really like to attempt to rape my wife in front of my kid before I head off.
Oh, wait. Wow. Something just struck me. Re. [redacted]'s appearance in Azimuth - I know it's still three years away, but... could this be seeding events for a massive 50th anniversary GGC multiverse dust-up?
Well could it?
1. Please can people chill a bit on this thread, or I'm going to start editing/deleting posts? Thank you.
2. I suppose the notion of what is heavy handed or not is in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I've found the entirety of Devil's Railroad about a subtle as a brick.
Quote from: norton canes on 20 December, 2023, 09:47:37 AMOh, wait. Wow. Something just struck me. Re. [redacted]'s appearance in Azimuth - I know it's still three years away, but... could this be seeding events for a massive 50th anniversary GGC multiverse dust-up?
Well could it?
Considering how long it can take for Sin/Dex to get to it's pay-off points, I'd say 'probably'.
As for Strontium Dog...
...I thought it was OK when I read it. Dan Cornwell's art is fantastic as always, and he's definitely the artist I'd like to see follow on from The King (assuming we get any more).
Seeing him punch the abusive lizard a*sehole in the face felt great, and I didn't feel the scene was too over-the-top in it's depictions of abuse. Never even considered it until I read this thread.
My only issue with the SD strip was it being very 'wordy'. Having that much dialogue on the page affected the flow and pace for me, but the story was still strong and I'd like to see more from the Prog's new Rufus.
Will we ever see two Rufus' in the Prog at the same time again? I certainly hope so!
New droid: Rufus²
Quote from: norton canes on 20 December, 2023, 09:47:37 AMOh, wait. Wow. Something just struck me. Re. [redacted]'s appearance in Azimuth - I know it's still three years away, but... could this be seeding events for a massive 50th anniversary GGC multiverse dust-up?
Well could it?
I'm feeling a bit slow -
GGC?
Galaxy's Greatest Comic.
Since 2000AD is now no more futuristic a name than 1977AD, can we just rename it Galaxy?
Quote from: Richard on 20 December, 2023, 04:00:15 PMSince 2000AD is now no more futuristic a name than 1977AD, can we just rename it Galaxy?
Get thee behind me Satan!!!!!!!!
That's what [redacted] said.
My copy arrived this morning - or at least my replacement copy, as the original still hasn't arrived. Massive thanks to the subs droids! I think my Christmas prog vanished last year too.
Anyway - I thought this was an enjoyable Prog but, and this might be nostalgia talking, it lacked something compared to previous years. The current strips running through so no first episode excitement, no Christmas features or anything like that, and only Fiends being a seasonal strip in any way.
Having seen this thread balloon to six pages whilst I was avoiding it I guess I assumed something a bit more was going on!
Anyway... that cover is awesome.
Dredd was a good read for a set up episode for something we don't know about yet, so limited mileage there. No Dredd at all, which is bad, but a starring role for Rico in the future it seems. Tom Foster lovely as ever.
Azimuth - clueless as to where this is going and totally blindsided by that reveal. I did see a Dredd pic on the wall but just thought it was another little easter egg... and I didn't recognise the armour at first, but once it's pointed out... I'm glad this seems to be heading somewhere other than a reset, and it's the most interesting SinDex has been for ages and ages.
Anderson - nothing better than 'alright'. Anderson herself looks about 16 here, the story was quite dark, but also just sort of ended? It did feel like an annual story, to echo others, as it was decent but sort of inconsequential.
Fiends is the absolute highlight. Looks amazing, creepy and horrible, festive theme. The art is just next level stuff here especially of old Constanza himself. Sooo good.
Strontium Dog I see there's been a bit of a debate about this!
I enjoyed it. It was close enough to the old stuff to feel authentic whilst not being too homage-y or afraid to do something a little bit different or not really delve into Johnny's character. The shift into the colour part was bold and unexpected and dare I say it slightly shoehorned in, but also really great.
Also I'm all for Johnny and Wulf killing bigots.
I guess it is saying something about stuff going on in the world today... but 2000ad's always been like that. So overall, I dug this tale.
Going forward, overall I'd kind of rather we didn't get anymore Stront without John and Carlos. But as we will, I'd hope it'd be focused on the Johnny / Wulf partnership as this does: they're a great double act and I suspect the period of the strip where the two of them were together is the on a lot of us remember very fondly. Dan Cornwell does a bang up job here of depicting them and I'd like to see him stay with it. As mentioned by others above, I'd quite like to see the strip back to its bounty hunter roots - if it's going to be an irregular thing, a tale where Alpha and Wulf go and hunt down an alien weirdo is always going to welcome.
Rogue was Rogue. It's rare you get a duff Rogue story but for me, rare you get one that stands out. This was didn't stand out, but it wasn't bad at all. Lovely art from Simon Coleby.
Then good episodes of Helium and Feral & Foe, both of them moving plot along very nicely. That first panel of F&F is great and Helium continues to delight. I didn't read Railroad or Enemy Earth.
Fun Prog then, if not spectacular.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 19 December, 2023, 10:43:45 PMQuote from: HeidTheBaw on 19 December, 2023, 08:43:12 PMSee also Devlin Waugh in recent years
Really? I thought Ales Kot's handling of the character in his most recent outings has been excellent.
seconded, for me it was a vast improvement, just miss the whole Tom of Finland vibe.
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 21 December, 2023, 03:11:06 PMDredd . No Dredd at all, which is bad,
Shirley the Dead Man counts?
He does, but a new reader would have no idea who he is.
Fair point.
Irish Squaxx will be amused by the fact my missus picked this Prog up this morning from the kitchen table assuming it was the Christmas edition of the RTE Guide...a more apt comparison for content I could not make.
I regret to report that this was the poorest End Of Year Programme in almost a quarter century for this benignly demanding reader.
First, the good:
Azimuth, and the most exciting Anderson appearance since she was thrown off a building by Jay De'ath. Wonderful stuff.
Fiends is a regularly strong Thrill, and this was a perfect 10 pager of Christmas horror.
Helium really was worth the wait it seems, as part 11 of this ongoing second series will attest.
The promo pages for Thistlebone and The Out look great, giving me some hope for '24.
The bad, ugly and indifferent make up the remaining 70% of the Prog.
A head scratcher of a Dredd that makes the Jonni Kiss story read like Watchmen, forget em whilst actually reading em outings for Rogue and Anderson, a bizarre / cringe Strontium Dog that reinforces the belief that the strip should be retired and the unreadable-from-the-get-go one-two punch of Enemy Earth and Devils Railroad.
I would usually bite my lip if one or two Thrills from any given Prog don't win me over, as there is regularly more to enjoy than not.
"The art is good", I love you all etc, but it's a Bah Humbug and Boo Urns for this turkey.
I loved Fiends - a perfect Christmas story. And the twist at the end of SinDex grabbed my attention. Dredd was OK, despite featuring him in hallucination form only. Anderson - it was fine, but I find it difficult to take any of her stories seriously when she looks younger than she did forty years ago.
I liked Rogue - generally once I realised that the Nort language was basically bastardised German, I could get my head around it. Not that I speak German but I worked there for two summers in my younger days and picked up some basics.
But yeah, not my favourite end of year bumper prog ever - remember the first few (unwisely called Prog 2000, 2001 etc after the year) when Tharg pulled out all the stops to make them not just comics but EVENTS? I know it would be hard to keep them at that level 23 years on, but it just didn't really feel special this year.
Reading that Rufus Hound interview in the Megazine is making me see his Alpha story in a new (and better) light.
Wow there seems to be divided opinions on this one and having saved it for X-Mas days as I do these days I have to say I got a right X-mas treat. Which is a nice surprise as this being a continuation of all but Dredd ran the risk of it not being special. Far from it in fact!
Dredd - I thought that this was a blinder. Neimand is my fav no Wagner Dredd and its episodes like this that make why completely clear. Still very much seated in Dreddverse, yet brilliantly refreshing and adding to things. Also this is setting up something big one feels. Tom Fosters art is of course superb, if some of the design, particularly of the perps as a little to clean and neat, but that's nit-picking.
Azimuth well if you're going to land us with what feels like a bit of a fan-service twisty introduction you can get away with it if you do it as well as this. Just superb.
It was always going to be hard to match an opening like those two but Anderson does its best, pretty decent story and lovely art BUT why oh why can't folks draw Cass as a mature woman as she is. Its pretty sad, especially when it lets down an otherwise great piece of art.
Fiends takes the quality right back up to top notch with a blinder with glorious evocative art.
Strontium Dog - damn that was so close to being great. Dan Cornwell was of course absolutely brilliant. That opening was fantastic, well crafted tale. Middle colour hallucination bit was unecessary, showed the inexperience of the writer in trying WAY to hard. Then the ending was fantastic and as good as the openning. A really good story with a bit of try to hard in the middle, but you can forgive that I guess.
Rogue Trooper solid story with great art.
Now thw biggest issue is the ongoing stories don't really hold up the quality we have had to this point.
Well okay Helium continues to be a delight and WOW that ending!
Enemy Earth, well ... its there.
Devil's Railroad I'll still stand up for this one. Fittingly pantomine fun for this time of year and I'm enjoying it.
Feral and Foe entertains.
Overall all I'm calling this one a big win. Do miss the fact we're not getting a new line-up to be excited about in the new year but that'll come when it comes and this one was a belter.
Judge Dredd - intriguing. I really liked the bait 'n' switch.
Azimuth - best thing in the prog.
Anderson's Daughter and Friends in "Psi-Div Cosplay" - brings up a lot of questions. Was this meant for Regened, where Anderson and the city exist in a Marvel/DC-style non-linear time zone? Dredd gets to age and get crinkly. Anderson magically gets younger every time she's depicted. Cadet Anderson looked older than this version. Why have the murderous juve-perps not had their hands washed prior to the interrogation? Why has the artist set out to deliberately taunt Jim Hines:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8082/8441819102_87d12cd12a_b.jpg)
Fiends of the Hellboy Front - second best thing in the prog.
Wokium Dog - it's okay. Electro-knuxing the dad isn't a great long term solution to that families ' problems, but I get that (as a stop-gap) he felt he had to do something. The trippy scene felt shoe-horned in - like an idea the author had and needed to place somewhere. I ended up confused in a separate conversation because I hadn't actually read what the Xyhlman cigar-chomper was saying. Reason: listening to c*nts like that in real life is bad enough - I don't want to have to sit through their stump speech in my escapist comic. It was just too many words, so I skipped to the next panel, and figured he was just a Trump-analogy. Turns out he was more of a Jordan Peterson analogy. So, yeah - not subtle, too wordy, too trite, too trippy.
Woke Trooper - I'm just not sure what families are doing on Nu Earth. The original depictions had it as a war zone populated by combat troops, and not families. Best I can say is that it means well.
---
Helium and Feral are great. I'm not reading Enemy Earth or Devil's RR, but may when they complete their runs.
Very late to the party on this, ended up reading it on New Year's Day!
Anyway, 100% agree with all the moans that this 'Special' was lacking in specialness - basically just a few teasers for upcoming stories, and I confess to being confused byt the Thistlebone tease - I thought it was a genuine poster for a movie produces by Rebellion!
Also rather un-special in not having many turns featuring old/not-much-used characters and creators.
On the other hand, all the stories within were were me, very good/excellent in qaulity, and that's got to be highest on Tharg's agenda I guess.
I suppose I must be quite a simple fan as I was genuinely excited by the Anderson reveal in Azimuth. Definite shades of Half-Life with Cass living out a secret life in another dimension, and Bettin's art continues to astonish.
I rather liked Rufus Hound's ake on Strontium Dog, making the effort to tell a small side-story and to tell it in a very non-Wagnerish way. I found it quite Millignay in its flirting with being literary/poetic.
I've complained int he past about Edginton-era Fiends being very far removed from the original 'Vampires in wartime' setting, but if it's this well done I'll shut up and just enjoy it.
Hi,
just a quick note to express disgust at the Strontium Dog story. The art was great, obviously, and I'm not talking about the "wokeness" or whatever as I didn't get that far.
Is this Rufus guy a faecophile? In between talk of Wulf shitting himself and Johnny shitting himself, there's Loki calling his wife a "shit-gargling whore". WTAF? I mean I wouldn't have batted an eyelid if this was e.g. Preacher or something but it's well out of place in the prog. Is that really where the prog is at these days? Is that why we have the regened rubbish, so we can have shit-gargling in the main prog?
Please don't publish this writer again, he's just taken a huge "shit" on a legend. That's one article I'll definitely be skipping when/if I get to the Meg.
Really surprised this hasn't been mentioned already. I assume I won't be chastised for the language here as it's just what's been published in the prog.
Yours,
Disgusted, Nortland
Quote from: Mudcrab on 11 January, 2024, 06:54:56 PMThat's one article I'll definitely be skipping when/if I get to the Meg.
Number one: you're right not to read the article in the Megazine - it's full of references to poop - almost as if they got a thesaurus out and just started listing the synonyms.
Number two: you'd struggle to actually get to the article, because it's book-ended by two tales of dangerous defecation. Number one: The Trigan Empire is a reprint of the classic "Out-of-Time", in which Janno (the Emperor's nephew) is caught short in a fighter jet. Then, number two (after the article) is Johnny Red, in "Za Poopini". I'll not go into the details, for fear that you could never wipe away the dung-laden references.
Crabs crap in their shells and force it out with their legs but they pee out of glands near their eyes.
That is all.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 11 January, 2024, 07:19:42 PMNumber one: you're right not to read the article in the Megazine - it's full of references to poop - almost as if they got a thesaurus out and just started listing the synonyms.
Or a profanisaurus?
Quote from: M.I.K. on 11 January, 2024, 08:56:38 PMCrabs crap in their shells and force it out with their legs but they pee out of glands near their eyes.
Demodex mites live on our face (nestled in our eyelash-pits) and have no anus. They poop into their tails, and then die pretty much around the same time that they've filled up their tail-spaces with their own poop.
There was a cock in Strontium Dog too.
Size does matter