"I have written these things. I'm not proud of it. I have nothing but abhorrence for the superhero as a figure. I think that there is something wrong with our culture. These are responsible adults, and they are thrilling to concepts and characters and stories that were written to entertain the 12 year old boys of 50 years ago.
I think that it says something a little bit disturbing if we just want to regurgitate the culture that we grew up with and which takes us back to our happy place. I really thought comics was about something more than that."
Moore's got new product to promote! Radio Four's Today Programme brought him in from the field, made him wipe his unshod feet on the doormat, and sit up straight like a real author, before asking him every single question he's asked whenever he does an interview for the mainstream media. As well as the playground taunt reproduced above, he manages to perform the Stan Lee trick of forgetting that there was some guy called David Lloyd hanging around while he "created" the look adopted by the Occupy movement - he neglects the Wachowskis, for that matter.
It's actually an interesting interview, which seems to reveal the formative influence collaborating with Malcolm McLaren had on Moore's approach to storytelling - he compares McLaren to William Blake! Moore's promoting the comic adaptation of his script for McLaren's unfilmed Fashion Beast (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/comics/interviews/a513992/alan-moore-on-fashion-beast-and-the-fashion-industrys-dark-side.html) - which I had no idea was even coming out - and mentions that he's having another prose novel published next year, called Jerusalem (http://www.believermag.com/issues/201306/?read=interview_moore). Endearingly, Moore upbraids the interviewer for referring to his new work as a graphic novel, "lets just call them very expensive comics". Classic Alan:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24032641
As always with the sublime Moore I do wish he'd qualify his statements a bit - contemporary comics are more than superheroic childhood escapism, it'd be almost impossible to even keep up with all the comics that don't fit that description, and that are far from infantilism. Repeatedly asserting that the dominance of the lycra-punching crowd somehow means that the medium itself is presently reduced to just that has to be harmful. Does the ubiquity of kill-the-pig 'reality' TV mean that there's nothing decent being made, and avidly consumed, in that medium?
Alan needs to acknowledge that he's no longer as aware of the state of the medium or form as he was when he hung about with the Westminster Hall comics mart folk, and arguing that books that make it to critical/awards lists aren't worth reading because they are 'style accessories' is really throwing the baby out with the bath water.
Mention of David Lloyd would have been nice, but Alan has spent 30-odd years insisting on the fair treatment of his co-creators to his own detriment, even after he'd cut them out of the metaphorical will, so he's allowed the odd lapse.
Can't wait for Jerusalem, speaking as a big fan of Voice of the Fire, and local history novels in general.
Fair comment Tordel.
QuoteThese are responsible adults, and they are thrilling to concepts and characters and stories that were written to entertain the 12 year old boys of 50 years ago.
So, nothing like LOEG then...
Meh. That's OK, I think he is too. It's funny that he touches upon adults still digging superhero fiction (that he himself has long stopped reading, so not sure how he knows what other creators are doing in the genre) because but he's the biggest man-child on the planet. Goes without saying that Moore is a really good writer but it's a bloody shame that he choses to spew such constant negativity about the medium and it's creators from the soapbox he's given. He constantly seems to downplay his past superhero writing, not in a modest way but to try and belittle the people that do like it.
This (http://www.seraphemera.org/seraphemera_books/Alan_Moore_Interview.html)is a hilarious interview for anyone that has the time (it's a long 8 page rant). I still think it could be a spoof as some of the stuff he comes out with is mind blowing bonkers paranoia-filled stuff.
Disdain for anyone else working in mainstream comics; "I didn't really think that there was any talent in the mainstream comics industry. If there had have been, they presumably, sometime over the past 20 or 25 years, would have perhaps come up with something that was as good as Watchmen--or as notable or as memorable--after they'd already been shown how to do it."
NEW 52 was launched because he said no Watchmen sequels (and nothing to do with DC trying stop falling print sales or clean up DC continuity to make it more accessable) "When I originally said that I would not be giving my permission to a raft of prequels, DC immediately announced that they were going to do an exciting relaunch to all of their classic characters--which, I suppose, was their "plan B."
Anyone that worked on Before Watchmen is a prick and are only doing it to get 15 minutes of fame:
"I feel that the industry employees who are actually working upon this book--I had only heard of about three of them--but I'm certainly not interested in seeing any of their work. But, I'm unlikely to because I don't read comics anymore and they're never going to do anything outside of comics. I think it's a shame. I can see why the people concerned are involved, having either never created anything original themselves or they did, but it wasn't good enough to get DC out of their current hole.
It strikes me that, yes, I can understand why they took on Before Watchmen. It will probably be the only opportunity they get in their careers to actually be attached to a project that anybody outside of comics has ever heard of."
If you read Before Watchmen you're a prick "If people do want to go out and buy these Watchmen prequels, they would be doing me an enormous favor if they would just stop buying my other books."
I can't do anything legal about Before Watchmen so I'm going to try and guilt tripping people into not buying it "I would hope that you wouldn't want to buy a book knowing that its author actually had complete contempt for you. So, I'm hoping that will be enough."
That's just the first few pages, he's real charming.
As with the likes of Frank "totally bonkers" Miller some times it's necessary to focus on the output of artists rather than the artist themselves.
Re: Alan Moore thinks you're a prick! Er no he doesn't, well on this subject at least, but that's probably because I agree with his thoughts about the men in tights stuff, and the Talcy Malcy/fashion world stuff was interesting to hear.
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 11 September, 2013, 10:16:30 AM
QuoteThese are responsible adults, and they are thrilling to concepts and characters and stories that were written to entertain the 12 year old boys of 50 years ago.
So, nothing like LOEG then...
Or Tom Strong! Or Supreme! The wonderful thing about Moore is how all the contradictions inherent in his work and in what he says just make them both even more interesting. As
TordelBack says, that's a particularly brief soundbite, delivered as an afterthought capping off an interview which asks him a set of questions which could leave you with the impression he hasn't done anything since reinventing superhero comics for DC and everyone else in the last thirty years with
Watchmen.
There's not many folk who can discuss ideas or the interplay between creativity and commerce in as lively and thought provoking manner as Moore, and you know that if he had been talking to someone capable of pressing him on that point he would have come up with something which made you view his work and the medium a little differently and made both even more interesting and rewarding. Moore can rubbish Morrison's superficial observation that Flash is a bit like Hermes (http://www.believermag.com/issues/201306/?read=interview_moore), then go on to describe how he considers all gods to be metaphysical constructs and comics the ideal medium in which they manifest ... interesting contradictions.
Moore is a bonafide genius, a genuine humanitarian and a revolutionary thinker, and the most significant artist of the last 30 years of the whole medium. If he can't leaven his warm and insightful interviews with some intransigent contradictory ranting from his wizard's tower, who the hell can? It'd be great if he was a better ambassador for comics than he is, but it's not very likely at this stage - just be grateful for what we have.
We are not worthy!
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view3/1365304/we-re-not-worthy-o.gif)
I wonder if Moore's read Naoki Urasawa's Pluto or 20th Century Boys. Probably not, which is unfortunate because I feel Urasawa is the modern Alan Moore.
I have plenty of mates who call me a prick and worse all the time, and who slag off my love of superhero comics as being retarded, but they're still my mates and you know why? Because I am an adult. I I suppose I could get angry at them for daring to say such things about my favorite toys and go huff in the corner instead, or run my mouth off to other people saying my mates liked rape a bit too much for my liking and were probably nonces too, but then I really would be the mentally-retarded prick they were accusing me of being.
I would have thought by now that it was clear when Moore speaks of "comics" in the western mainstream sense he is deliberately winding up that section of comics creators and fandom that takes itself far too seriously, in the same way that those Mohammad cartoons infuriate the vocal arseholes who deserve to have what they cherish ridiculed while regular well-balanced Muslims just get on with their day. Further to that, I'd really like to believe that his trying to appropriate the visual hook of Occupy is an attempt to infuriate the makers and fans of the film from which the V merchandise derives, but chances are he's just not talking about David Lloyd today because he's got Alan to sell. As TB points out, he's ahead of everyone else in terms of sharing the honeypot with his creators to the point that only Dave Gibbons is credited on the Watchmen movie.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 11 September, 2013, 10:59:13 AM
I wonder if Moore's read Naoki Urasawa's Pluto or 20th Century Boys. Probably not, which is unfortunate because I feel Urasawa is the modern Alan Moore.
Not sure I'd go that far (I sense a lack of advance plotting in his work that by contrast is always there with Moore), but you're right - it's hard to see how even the Magus could have read
20th Century Boys and still say nothing much good has happened in comics.
Quote from: Proudhuff on 11 September, 2013, 10:38:15 AM
Re: Alan Moore thinks you're a prick! Er no he doesn't, well on this subject at least, but that's probably because I agree with his thoughts about the men in tights stuff
His point was about grown men reading the same
"concepts and characters and stories that were written to entertain the 12 year old boys of 50 years ago". I'm not sure you or I can absolve ourselves of that sin,
Proudhuff. I'll give Wagner's Dredd work a pass, since it's as much an authored piece of evolving serially published fiction as anything Dickens wrote, but when most other folk write the strip it's difficult to see the line between it and any other corporate owned intellectual property.
Mills's resurrection of
Savage and
Flesh are specifically appealing to reader nostalgia, but most other
2000ad strips running today are new creations specific to the writer/artist who devised them and are wound up when the creators move on. Yet even something as wonderful as the most recent series of
The Ten Seconders is trading in part on a yearning for the Silver Age of youth. Trying to navigate through this argument produces a mess of very interesting contradictions.
Is that true about Savage though? It's certainly trading on nostalgia at the moment, but the earlier books had a fair bit to say that had nothing to do with Invasion beyond the names of the protagonists.
Other comics I'd rank as highly as Watchmen in terms of pure craft.
DC: The New Frontier
King City
Finder
Honestly I'm not sure if Moore is more pissed at Creators for not trying to break out of the traditional molds, or readers for continuing to buy the dreck.
Probably both.
Moore's problem is that he's an artist trapped in an industry that doesn't reward art. That's got to be frustrating. But he should count his lucky stars everyday that he's an famous as he is, and can basically do anything he wants. Most artists in this biz don't get that luxury.
I know I'm in the minority who finds 20th Century Boys too long and too bloated, but Pluto is so damn astonishing that it eclipses anything and everything that Moore has ever written. I reread it recently and it's a complete masterpiece. And I say that even though I feel it's also a book too long. If had ended one book sooner, with that emotional scene of the wife crying, that would have been the biggest gut-punch in the medium. I love Pluto to pieces.
As for Moore, I think he's clever enough to know that his words are chiefly going to be dissected by morally outraged superhero fans, and that the places that are interviewing him would be all too happy for the ad clicks as they refresh the comments again and again. He knows how to provide good ad copy for anybody who wants to give him a microphone.
I think this thread should really be titled:
Alan Moore thinks DC are pricks!
Alan really doesn't like DC, he believe's that they have stolen Watchmen from him and over time are degrading it with the film, tales of black freighter and now the prequels. He saw it as a self-contained 12 parter and that was that. Also, he feels he should now own the copyright but I'm not going into all of that here.
This is a large part of the dig in the current interview - these concepts/characters were written to entertain 12 year-olds 50 years ago. This is true, so why do 40-50 year olds still get entertained by them? Well, we all know for starters that these characters have also changed over time but Alan is suggesting this 'nostalgia' is holding back the comics industry and really only done to generate money. In a large part, you have to agree - despite the recent DC new 52, has anything really new/exciting happenned with the usual superheroes? I suspect Moore would argue that they should all be killed off and then we can come up with something bloomin original!
It's interesting when Moore rants about the comic industry what people come back with to argue the case that comics are not rubbish. I don't think anyone has said "well the new Superman is really kicking arse, this week he meets Lois Lane for the first time". ::)
I wouldn't be as extreme as Alan but I certainly agree that many comics outstay their welcome, wither away and die. Perhaps a bit more of a planned final exit would be better? There are good comics out there, but I must admit they tend to be newer ones like Saga.
Quote from: Recrewt on 11 September, 2013, 01:47:29 PM
I wouldn't be as extreme as Alan but I certainly agree that many comics outstay their welcome, wither away and die. Perhaps a bit more of a planned final exit would be better?
It's not the comics that outstay their welcome. It's the refusal of the fans to let go of what is, essentially, a juvenile stable of titles and those same titles' publishers' decision to concentrate on pandering to an ever-ageing, ever-dwindling pool of readers that makes it
feel that way.
Cheers
Jim
It's the Roy Thomases and the Geoff Johnses too, though. DC keeps commissioning these continuity-obsessed man-children who can't let go of the past to write the books. This isn't a new problem. Look at the 1980s: At the same time DC was publishing the Wolfman/Perez New Teen Titans and the Levitz/Giffen/Lightle LSH, both of which were critically acclaimed and both of which were aging and maturing the characters and really doing new things, they were letting Roy Thomas do All-Star Squadron, which had plots like "Every one-off masked bad guy who was ever seen in a single issue of BUY WAR BONDS COMICS in 1942 have all teamed up to fight the superheroes!"
I mean, DC published the Alan Scott Green Lantern for, what, ten years? They published Hal Jordan as the lead for thirty before replacing him with Kyle Rayner, then decided after a decade that they should let Geoff Johns bring Hal Jordan back. The fact that nobody at that publisher can tell the talent NO is a real problem.
What could have been done (alongside a much more radical change away from funnybook pamphlets and into big 200-page magazines designed for grocery stores, newsstands, and bookstores - not comic shops at ALL, but that's an old complaint of mine) was, when DC decided to streamline continuity, they should have actually used their past as more than just "World War Two." Because they let Geoff Johns whine that he has to have Hal Jordan and Barry Allen in the present with Superman and Batman, you've got silly backwards continuity keeping these 1960s B-listers in the modern day with the actual icons. They always tie the old Justice Society characters to WW2 whenever they revamp, but god forbid they actually establish something bold like "Hal Jordan was Earth's Green Lantern from 1958 to 1974, when he died."
They could have made a huge timeline, established years of activity in the past for hundreds of characters, told occasional flashback stories, and - here's the wild part - have the stories in the 2010s with NEW characters. Aimed at 8-13 year-olds.
Then again, this is a company which owned a character, Static Shock, which was on TV, in a cartoon, seen by millions of kids every week for about five years and didn't understand how to profit from Static Shock merchandising or how to publish a comic book version of that character that the millions of kids who liked the cartoon would want to read. It's not like this company is run by anybody with forward-looking vision.
More to the point: Before Watchmen was shite.
Quote from: Grant Goggans on 11 September, 2013, 02:49:33 PM
alongside a much more radical change away from funnybook pamphlets and into big 200-page magazines designed for grocery stores, newsstands, and bookstores - not comic shops at ALL, but that's an old complaint of mine
^This. I honestly couldn't agree more.
Quote from: blackmocco on 11 September, 2013, 02:54:40 PM
More to the point: Before Watchmen was shite.
Hence why it's no longer and the
Epilogue cancelled.
Quote from: Grant Goggans on 11 September, 2013, 02:49:33 PMThe fact that nobody at that publisher can tell the talent NO is a real problem.
Quote from: Grant Goggans on 11 September, 2013, 02:49:33 PMAimed at 8-13 year-olds.
Considering just last week the company was involved with a public dispute over disallowing one of their most lauded and highest-profile creators from doing a plot that they agreed to nearly two years ago, and weeks before that another went on record as being told by Dan DiDio that DC makes comics for 45 year old single men, I am not sure what DC comics you are referring to - but I for one would like to read their creator-defined all-ages books very much, thank you. The ones produced via editorial clusterfuck that I have been trying to read for the last five years have been just awful.
Also this: http://guttersandpanels.com/gutters-and-panels/2013/3/23/the-new-52-timeline-of-departures
Quote from: blackmocco on 11 September, 2013, 02:54:40 PM
More to the point: Before Watchmen was shite.
Some of it was shite, but that's a very harsh criticism of Cooke's Minutemen.
A very well put together piece IMO.
Personally, I have not read any of the Before Watchmen stuff so I won't comment on the quality. And I'm not even saying that I won't at some time. I can see why Alan Moore was not keen on it and why he would be upset when DC said they were going to do it anyway. The issue with the BW stuff is: did some creators sit down and think up some great new stories or did the DC execs sit down and think up ways of making more money out of this Watchmen cash-cow?
Wouldn't have mattered to me either way if the BW stuff was or wasn't any good - it's still the work of scabs.
I could understand young and hungry creators with families to feed and careers to build doing it, but the names attached did not need the profile boost or work.
I really wanted to check out Cooke's Parker adaptations, too, but I'm fucked if I'm throwing him penny one.
Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 11 September, 2013, 03:36:52 PM
Considering just last week the company was involved with a public dispute over disallowing one of their most lauded and highest-profile creators from doing a plot that they agreed to nearly two years ago, and weeks before that another went on record as being told by Dan DiDio that DC makes comics for 45 year old single men, I am not sure what DC comics you are referring to - but I for one would like to read their creator-defined all-ages books very much, thank you. The ones produced via editorial clusterfuck that I have been trying to read for the last five years have been just awful.
Sorry, I was ranting and unclear, I guess. The books that DC is producing now should be produced with younger readers in mind, not 45 year-olds.
This used to not be a problem with Marvel or DC. You read these Essentials and Showcases and anybody can see that the best of both company's output, while aimed at kids, can be enjoyed by everybody. If you don't like Lee & Kirby Thor, or Aragones/O'Neill/Cardy Bat Lash, something is downright wrong with you.
In the mid-90s, DC started producing a separate "Batman Adventures" comic book to tie into the cartoon on Fox. That way, they could say THESE comics are for little kids, and OUR COMICS, the ongoing continuity, THOSE are for grown-ups. Idiots. What they should have done was modified the continuity, storytelling, and character designs - not necessarily to strictly adapt the DC-Animated-Universe - but make it familiar.
And if you wonder how that could possibly work, it DID in the 1960s. The Batman comics made when the Adam West series was on still had some insanely weird plots, but they also brought Alfred back, and started introducing TV-styled villains like Cluemaster and Poison Ivy (originally a va-va-voom Julie Newmar type with no plant obsession) and making the Riddler a much more regular character. And they sold about thirty times what Batman comics sell today. And they're pretty good stories, too - check out the Showcases, and they've aged, but they're not bad.
Instead, DC put all the "animated" universe tie-in comics into their own little ghetto for little kids, as they did similar books like 8th Grade Supergirl, or Billy Batson & the Power of Shazam, or Tiny Titans. And while some of those were occasionally charming, there was nothing there to grow from. If a ten year-old got hooked on one of those, tough, because they existed in a vacuum and would get canceled soon and nothing else was around to tie into them, but any ten year-old who picked up a Defenders or an X-Men or a good Justice League in the early 1980s had entire evolving universes to explore. Modern DC and Marvel do not want little kid readers, they want their universes to be full of gore and 90-part crossovers and thick continuity and Red Lanterns who vomit blood, because comics ARE SO NOT FOR KIDS THESE IS FER GROWN-UP READERS I'M NO SISSY PLEASE DON'T BEAT ME UP MISTER FOOTBALL PLAYER.
These are superhero funnybooks for kids. Period. If you can't make them exciting and compelling and safe for children and also simultaneously interesting to adults, you deserve to go out of business.
I'll take a Batman that sells 3,000,000 copies a month and can appeal to anybody over a Batman that sells 100,000 copies a month and appeals to only people in their thirties and forties any day.
I used to think Alan Moore was a bit moany, but now I've come to the view that he's basically right. It helps that DC are now going out of their way to show how stupid and evil they really are on an almost daily basis.
Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 11 September, 2013, 04:19:33 PM
Wouldn't have mattered to me either way if the BW stuff was or wasn't any good - it's still the work of scabs.
I could understand young and hungry creators with families to feed and careers to build doing it, but the names attached did not need the profile boost or work.
I really wanted to check out Cooke's Parker adaptations, too, but I'm fucked if I'm throwing him penny one.
Amen, brother.
I won't read Darwyn Cooke stuff now because anyone involved in Before Watchmen clearly has had an integrity bypass.
Quote from: Grant Goggans on 11 September, 2013, 05:48:12 PM
Quote from: Professor James T Bear on 11 September, 2013, 03:36:52 PM
Considering just last week the company was involved with a public dispute over disallowing one of their most lauded and highest-profile creators from doing a plot that they agreed to nearly two years ago, and weeks before that another went on record as being told by Dan DiDio that DC makes comics for 45 year old single men, I am not sure what DC comics you are referring to - but I for one would like to read their creator-defined all-ages books very much, thank you. The ones produced via editorial clusterfuck that I have been trying to read for the last five years have been just awful.
Sorry, I was ranting and unclear, I guess. The books that DC is producing now should be produced with younger readers in mind, not 45 year-olds.
This used to not be a problem with Marvel or DC. You read these Essentials and Showcases and anybody can see that the best of both company's output, while aimed at kids, can be enjoyed by everybody. If you don't like Lee & Kirby Thor, or Aragones/O'Neill/Cardy Bat Lash, something is downright wrong with you.
In the mid-90s, DC started producing a separate "Batman Adventures" comic book to tie into the cartoon on Fox. That way, they could say THESE comics are for little kids, and OUR COMICS, the ongoing continuity, THOSE are for grown-ups. Idiots. What they should have done was modified the continuity, storytelling, and character designs - not necessarily to strictly adapt the DC-Animated-Universe - but make it familiar.
And if you wonder how that could possibly work, it DID in the 1960s. The Batman comics made when the Adam West series was on still had some insanely weird plots, but they also brought Alfred back, and started introducing TV-styled villains like Cluemaster and Poison Ivy (originally a va-va-voom Julie Newmar type with no plant obsession) and making the Riddler a much more regular character. And they sold about thirty times what Batman comics sell today. And they're pretty good stories, too - check out the Showcases, and they've aged, but they're not bad.
Instead, DC put all the "animated" universe tie-in comics into their own little ghetto for little kids, as they did similar books like 8th Grade Supergirl, or Billy Batson & the Power of Shazam, or Tiny Titans. And while some of those were occasionally charming, there was nothing there to grow from. If a ten year-old got hooked on one of those, tough, because they existed in a vacuum and would get canceled soon and nothing else was around to tie into them, but any ten year-old who picked up a Defenders or an X-Men or a good Justice League in the early 1980s had entire evolving universes to explore. Modern DC and Marvel do not want little kid readers, they want their universes to be full of gore and 90-part crossovers and thick continuity and Red Lanterns who vomit blood, because comics ARE SO NOT FOR KIDS THESE IS FER GROWN-UP READERS I'M NO SISSY PLEASE DON'T BEAT ME UP MISTER FOOTBALL PLAYER.
These are superhero funnybooks for kids. Period. If you can't make them exciting and compelling and safe for children and also simultaneously interesting to adults, you deserve to go out of business.
I'll take a Batman that sells 3,000,000 copies a month and can appeal to anybody over a Batman that sells 100,000 copies a month and appeals to only people in their thirties and forties any day.
And again, ^this.
I would add that I really liked the Batman Animated comic because you could pick up almost any issue and get a high quality stand alone Batman tale that was pretty much continuity free. Also, early issues featured art by the great Mike Parobeck.
Having said that, I agree that if the regular Batman titles were properly tweaked, they could have fulfilled the same purpose.
Was there much crossover between the Animated comic and the Grant/Breyfogle Batman run though, because they were great (I suspect it was around the time of Grant's slightly darker Shadow of the Bat).
The best current Bat title is the digital 'Legends of the Dark Knight'.
Quote from: sauchie karate club on 11 September, 2013, 09:05:35 AM
(Moore) mentions that he's having another prose novel published next year, called Jerusalem (http://www.believermag.com/issues/201306/?read=interview_moore).
Which he finished today: https://m.facebook.com/OfficialAlanMoore?_rdr
Ha! The first draft isn't really "finished", more a basis to start the real work. Most writing is rewriting, so they say. With a million words in the draft, I'm not holding my breath.
Still, it's great news that he's reached that milestone. Can't wait to read it - may have to dust off VotF in patient anticipation.
So Alan Moore has finally "built Jerusalem".
Quote from: Montynero on 09 September, 2014, 10:01:58 PM
Ha! The first draft isn't really "finished", more a basis to start the real work. Most writing is rewriting, so they say. With a million words in the draft, I'm not holding my breath.
Watchmen was a 'first draft', apparently.
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 10 September, 2014, 10:16:54 PM
Alan Moore has finally "built Jerusalem".
In England's green and pleasant land. Well ... in Northampton, at any rate.
Quote from: Alan Moore on 10 September, 2014, 10:59:49 PM
Apparently since my post on Sept 9th, there have been reports that Jerusalem doesn't have a publisher yet.
Actually it will be published by Knockabout who co-publish all of The League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen Books.
They are also dealing with foreign publishers too, for the foreign publishing rights. Please direct all inquiries to their contact page here:
http://www.knockabout.com/contact-us/
They've got a book to shill, admittedly, but here's Garth Ennis on Moore:
QuoteHe's the most talented individual the medium's ever seen
http://www.crossedcomic.com/2014/09/15/crossed100-a-new-monthly-series-from-alan-moore-and-gabriel-andrade/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter
Be interesting to see what Moore does with the utterly tired zombiepocalypse genre and the equally tired "told over XX years" narrative device - and he couldn't have picked a more apt book to work on, as the Crossed titles are marmite to comics readers with few opinions nestling in the middle ground, much like fanboy opinion of Moore himself.
Quote from: Garth Ennis=topic=39175.msg844252#msg844252 date=1410811036
that he's writing Crossed means everything to me.
I don't know, was Moore's
Violator mini-series an endorsement of Todd MacFarlane and/or Spawn, or was that a result of his money troubles as his publishing company went under? As a point of principle I never bother checking what I say for factual accuracy, but didn't Moore claim he was finished with comics (possibly in the interview linked to in the first post of this thread)?
Taking off my cynic bunnet, I love Ennis and Moore equally but for very different reasons, so I'll get this. I never bothered tracking down the earlier
Crossed stories - are they worth a look?
You never know, Alan's a genius, there may still be the fire in his loins to create another innovative masterpiece. Doing amazing things in established genres is what he's best at. Never write him off.
I'll certainly be there day one.
What is he building? What the hell is he building in there? I'll tell you one thing: he's not building a playhouse for the children.
Stick Moore's name on the cover of a work in any medium, and you have my money. I want to know.
Mind you, you could say the same about Ennis - his hit ratio is high enough to override my dislike of some of his stuff.
Crossed has loads of potential, a fact only emphasised when you see how bad some of its incarnations have been, compared to the Ennis and Spurious ones.
Quote from: TordelBack on 16 September, 2014, 03:54:59 AM
What is he building? What the hell is he building in there? I'll tell you one thing: he's not building a playhouse for the children.
Every post should start with a Tom Waits quote. Well done that man.
Anyway I've never read any Crossed and not read much of anything of Alan Moore's work from my Wilderness years (I keep meaning to get Promethea and Tom Strong but haven't got a round to it) so maybe this will be a good place to start.
Is the early Crossed stuff any good. While I'm a big fan of Garth Ennis Crossed always looked a bit silly to me, don't know why and its not based on anything other than an instinctive reaction.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 16 September, 2014, 08:49:07 AM
Is the early Crossed stuff any good. While I'm a big fan of Garth Ennis Crossed always looked a bit silly to me, don't know why and its not based on anything other than an instinctive reaction.
The first Ennis 6 parter is 'okay' (Ennis running on average, art not the best in that Avatar tradition) and has a reasonable conclusion. The second 'Family Values' is not great shakes (incest in mid-western farm, preacher-bully father figure etc) and by the third (the usually excellent David lapham doing a 'the horror is us 'friendly cannibal rapist' story) I'd had enough. Never read the main comic but it's gone from negative reviews to polite disinterest at it's respect for making 50 then 100 issues.
The main thing to read is the free online Spurrier comic which has it's weaknesses (art, over indulgent writer-on-writer bits) but which rapidly stops being a crossed comic, has good central and ancillary characters and throws in enough curveballs along the way.
Quote from: BPP on 16 September, 2014, 09:28:04 AM
The main thing to read is the free online Spurrier comic which has it's weaknesses (art, over indulgent writer-on-writer bits) but which rapidly stops being a crossed comic, has good central and ancillary characters and throws in enough curveballs along the way.
I'll confess, the older I get the lower my tolerance seems to get for anything looking to shock for the sake of shocking, and my limited exposure to the main title seemed to suggest that it was looking to do this in spades.
BPP is correct about
'Wish You Were Here', though — Spurrier has a lot of writing tics that seem to annoy me, but I've found this eminently readable, in places really quite compelling. Art is always competent, sometimes excellent. Check it out here (http://www.crossedcomic.com/category/the-webcomic/) but be aware that it is most definitely NSFW.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 16 September, 2014, 08:49:07 AM
I've never read any Crossed
Me neither.
That will definitely change come December. Like Tordelback, if Moore's name is on the cover (hell, if 'The Original Writer' is on the cover) I'm instantly standing to attention.
I'm planning on picking up the first Crossed trade at the weekend, but will unlikely collect the lot.
I do plan to cherry-pick recommended arcs based on the general wisdom of this very forum.
As an aside, I
really enjoyed Moore's tale in the recent Avatar 'God is Dead' bookend release.
And unusually (in my experience with Avatar comics) the artwork was excellent throughout.
Quote from: BPP on 16 September, 2014, 09:28:04 AM
The first Ennis 6 parter is 'okay'
Come now. It has a character whose name
and catchphrase is 'Horsecock', and whose signature weapon is, well, just take a wild guess. Gerry Finley Day himself couldn't have done better.
I wouldn't want anyone to be under illusions regarding 95% of
Crossed: it literally is gross-out shock for shock's sake, going as far as possible for the hell of it - which can be an art in itself. Sometimes this works for me, often it doesn't - and as noted elsewhere I can't read any of Lapham's contributions, they're woeful. In the other 5%, there's something interesting being said about humanity in extremis and the balance of pragmatism and compassion, and I like those bits a lot. Generally these are by Ennis and Spurrier.
But I bet Moore can stand the whole thing on its head.
Quote from: TordelBack on 16 September, 2014, 09:03:50 PM
Quote from: BPP on 16 September, 2014, 09:28:04 AM
The first Ennis 6 parter is 'okay'
Come now. It has a character whose name and catchphrase is 'Horsecock', and whose signature weapon is, well, just take a wild guess. Gerry Finley Day himself couldn't have done better.
Woah! Which episodes of Rogue Trooper did I miss?
;)
Quote from: TordelBack on 16 September, 2014, 09:03:50 PMI wouldn't want anyone to be under illusions regarding 95% of Crossed: it literally is gross-out shock for shock's sake, going as far as possible for the hell of it
Not just Crossed. You are describing 95% of modern superhero comics there, TB. The drive is usually towards setting up and delivering some sort of soundbite, splash image or shock twist, and as time goes on the amount of sex, violence, and sexual violence in children's comics increases to the point that in 10 years' time, Crossed will likely seem a bit quaint.
Quote from: The Adventurer on 11 September, 2013, 10:59:13 AM
I wonder if Moore's read Naoki Urasawa's Pluto or 20th Century Boys. Probably not, which is unfortunate because I feel Urasawa is the modern Alan Moore.
I dig those, and I love the anime adaptation of Monster too. That's my fav of his.
Moore is a one of the greats of course, but I do think it's hard to say somebody is
the most important writer of a 30 year period. He's one of a great bunch, and agreed Watchmen (along with The Dark Knight Returns) were big game changers.
I do think his criticisms on adults enjoying entertainment aimed at a young audience are incredibly silly, but hey, he's entitled to his view. I do like when people criticize Marvel and DC since I find them very often disappointing and often baffling, but Moore isn't even really approaching the topic with any substance.
And on superhero comics, it'd be cool if people were more specific with what they're referring to. You have incredible stuff like Savage Dragon and Invincible over at Image, Marvel and DC aren't the only game in town for that genre.
Quote from: Bear McBear on 16 September, 2014, 11:39:31 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 16 September, 2014, 09:03:50 PMI wouldn't want anyone to be under illusions regarding 95% of Crossed: it literally is gross-out shock for shock's sake, going as far as possible for the hell of it
Not just Crossed. You are describing 95% of modern superhero comics there, TB. The drive is usually towards setting up and delivering some sort of soundbite, splash image or shock twist, and as time goes on the amount of sex, violence, and sexual violence in children's comics increases to the point that in 10 years' time, Crossed will likely seem a bit quaint.
Oh, come on. Granted, a lot of comics do have have problems with violence and sex, and many do go out of their way to make the next big shocking plot twist, but the difference between those and something like Crossed is pretty huge - let's not kid ourselves that they're the same. As Tordleback pointed out, the Crossed comics are almost purely about finding inventive ways to gross the reader out - kind of like The Hostel films, I suppose - but the critical difference between them and any superhero comic you may read is that they do so by throwing tons of rape and child murder your way, and they do so graphically in all its horrible detail, and don't really take the time to concentrate on anything else (in my short-lived experience anyway, with the exception of the little I've read of Spurrier's free webcomic series). Honestly, unless they throw in graphic baby murder or - god forbid - their rape, I highly doubt comics like Crossed will ever seem "quaint" at all.
Anyway, although I'm not as excited as the rest of the internet seems to be by this news (Multiversity Comics even have a ridiculous post collecting reactions on social media), I'd possibly pick it up if the first reviews suggest it's any good, which I believe it could be seeing as Neonomicon, also published by Avatar, was also pretty nasty stuff but also had the usual Moore depth to it.
I've read all of Crossed and still do. Most of it is crap.
Quote from: J.Smith on 17 September, 2014, 12:39:01 AMHonestly, unless they throw in graphic baby murder
Actually they've done this at least twice
Quote from: J.Smith on 17 September, 2014, 12:39:01 AMgod forbid - their rape
A Serbian Film beat them to it. They call it new born porn.
Anyone interested in Crossed should read the initial Ennis run and his later runs. All the Spurrior stuff is good as well. Leave the rest.
Really looking forward to what Moore can bring to it.
Quote from: Satanist on 17 September, 2014, 12:37:00 PM
Quote from: J.Smith on 17 September, 2014, 12:39:01 AMgod forbid - their rape
A Serbian Film beat them to it. They call it new born porn.
Mr Orange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_Zone#Plot) was there long before them or Ian Watkins of Lost Prophets.
Quote from: sauchie polling station on 17 September, 2014, 12:55:16 PM
Mr Orange (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_War_Zone#Plot) was there long before them or Ian Watkins of Lost Prophets.
The War Zone is one of the toughest films I've ever sat through.
Excellent, though.
Never even heard about Crossed until this thread! is it as awful as Boiled Angel (not that I have read that either)
I've never been a massive fan of Ennis humour. Even in Preacher I find the humour bits often grate rather than amuse. It's a shame when he falls back on the purile humour as he's such a good writer of drama. Check out the contrast between his MU Punisher and the MAX stuff - it's like he suddenly thought 'what the fuck am I doing?' and decided to write some proper stories.
As for main stream super hero comics (and I wouldn't include titles like Invincible or Savage Dragon in that)- they make me laugh. They're fun fluff which I can enjoy on a superficial level but they're very backward. The industry makes a big fuss about how progressive they are by giving Captain Marvel or the new Dazzler a costume that covers them up and then the very same company introduces Angela to the MU who goes into battle in her pants with her tits out.
Quote from: TordelBack on 16 September, 2014, 09:03:50 PM
Quote from: BPP on 16 September, 2014, 09:28:04 AM
The first Ennis 6 parter is 'okay'
Come now. It has a character whose name and catchphrase is 'Horsecock', and whose signature weapon is, well, just take a wild guess. Gerry Finley Day himself couldn't have done better.
I wouldn't want anyone to be under illusions regarding 95% of Crossed: it literally is gross-out shock for shock's sake, going as far as possible for the hell of it - which can be an art in itself. Sometimes this works for me, often it doesn't - and as noted elsewhere I can't read any of Lapham's contributions, they're woeful. In the other 5%, there's something interesting being said about humanity in extremis and the balance of pragmatism and compassion, and I like those bits a lot. Generally these are by Ennis and Spurrier.
But I bet Moore can stand the whole thing on its head.
^^^ THIS.
They know how to play a fanboy:
'every cover ofCrossed: +100 will offer clues and hidden information about what has transpired in the 100 years since the outbreak, and hints at things to come for the characters'.Would this be a good time to sell the various Crossed I have kicking about Huff Mansions?
Preacher is an interesting addition to the discussion, as while it was the most extreme thing on the mainstream market at the time, it's pretty tame these days.
I suppose the temptation is to not include Invincible in the discussion on account of its indy status, but that would be a mistake because it really is a microcosm of the output of the modern superhero comics industry in that it's made by and for 30-40something fans disillusioned with the Big Two's properties for whatever reasons and yet spends all its time rehashing stories and characters from their output. You will note the current storyline in Invincible where the character with Superman's powers and named after Batman's partner is currently having a baby girl like Spidey didn't manage to do all those years ago after the Clone Saga, a story which also ran through Invincible up until recently (and which might still be in play depending on how the CIA angle plays out in current issues). Invincible is what the average grown superhero fan wants to read and write, and not only has it been full of graphic violence since the very start, like the superhero industry of which it is a paradigm it's escalated upon that graphic content in the only way that it could with the recent addition of rape and F-bombs.
Superman murdered three people in cold blood once in a Superman comic and it was shocking - nowadays? Small beer. I mean, he didn't even punch anyone's spine out or do a witty one-liner afterwards, he just killed some people because he'd been painted into a corner and then he was very sad about it even though he only killed three people who had it coming anyway, etc. In this age of Avengers Arena where a mainstream superhero comic can only sell if it features the graphic murder or dismemberment of characters, ten years might have been me being generous rather than flippant.
Quote from: Bear McBear on 17 September, 2014, 02:47:06 PMInvincible in the discussion on account of its indy status, but that would be a mistake because it really is a microcosm of the output of the modern superhero comics industry in that it's made 30-40something fans disillusioned with the Big Two's properties for whatever reasons and yet spends all its time rehashing stories and characters from their output.
Not to nitpick, but I see a lot of fairly specific age ranges like that listed for comics, and they always seem too narrow. Me, I'm 28, got into Invincible for example in my early-to-mid 20s, so did some of my friends. I see lots of people my age or younger in comic stores.
Also on a similar topic, I do think new people get into comics all the time. It's not just people who were 20 in the comic boon of say 1991 who are reading today, I was five in 1991.
To me aiming a sci-fi action or superhero book at 17-55 or something is as valid as anything else in entertainment. And due to the price of comics and the effort it takes to keep up with them, I don't think it's a medium that makes sense to aim specifically at kids today. I know when I was a kid even then comics weren't an option for my parents to buy me, I think it works as an adult thing, even in the superhero genre. Granted I'm preaching to the choir with a lot of this.
On the storytelling quality of Invincible, personally I think it takes stylistic ques and uses tropes but in general Invincible doesn't read as derivative of Superman or Spider-Man to me, and I don't think the Grayson name has much to do with the content. I also think stuff like graphic violence and the occassional f-bomb is something that can be part of a story and not just for it's own sake, I don't look at it differently than a Rated R film. The Coen brothers have included both of those things for example.
Quote from: PsychoGoatee on 17 September, 2014, 05:04:33 PM
Quote from: Bear McBear on 17 September, 2014, 02:47:06 PMInvincible in the discussion on account of its indy status, but that would be a mistake because it really is a microcosm of the output of the modern superhero comics industry in that it's made 30-40something fans disillusioned with the Big Two's properties for whatever reasons and yet spends all its time rehashing stories and characters from their output.
Not to nitpick, but I see a lot of fairly specific age ranges like that listed for comics, and they always seem too narrow. Me, I'm 28, got into Invincible for example in my early-to-mid 20s, so did some of my friends. I see lots of people my age or younger in comic stores.
While it is true that 99% of statistics are made up and there will always be atypical fans outside the target audience - the publishers of those cheesecake soft-porn "Grimm Fairy Tales" comics can attest to this, as half their audience is female - Kirkman is in his 40s, Invincible's letters pages show that the vast majority of his audience grew up with late-80s and 1990s popular culture, and Kirkman has been pretty forward about the book being a reaction to the Big Two's output and where certain characters come from. The low sales, vocal fans, and restrictions on sales to younger readers imposed by retailers don't make it hard to discern the average age even before you factor in the actual average age of the baseline North American comics consumer, nor is it hard to figure out what Kirkman is reacting to when he opens a letters page editorial straight-up telling you why he's done whatever he did that issue.
Quote from: Bear McBear on 17 September, 2014, 09:03:34 PMWhile it is true that 99% of statistics are made up and there will always be atypical fans outside the target audience - the publishers of those cheesecake soft-porn "Grimm Fairy Tales" comics can attest to this, as half their audience is female - Kirkman is in his 40s, Invincible's letters pages show that the vast majority of his audience grew up with late-80s and 1990s popular culture, and Kirkman has been pretty forward about the book being a reaction to the Big Two's output and where certain characters come from. The low sales, vocal fans, and restrictions on sales to younger readers imposed by retailers don't make it hard to discern the average age even before you factor in the actual average age of the baseline North American comics consumer, nor is it hard to figure out what Kirkman is reacting to when he opens a letters page editorial straight-up telling you why he's done whatever he did that issue.
Plenty of room for personal interpretation in those subjects, just saying, I don't think 30-40 is necessarily accurate for Invincible. And people in their 20s also grew up with early 90s pop culture like Ninja Turtles, Batman and X-Men cartoons etc. And I can attest that several of the regulars in the letters column are indeed in their 20s.
We're both largely guessing at what some unspoken thousands of people's ages are here pretty much, but just from what I've seen, my impression is it skews wider and also younger than the 30s-40s figure you're using personally. Just saying, Invincible does have plenty of fans in their 20s.
And Kirkman does sometimes talk about things in letters pages, like him parodying the big advertised death events etc, but I'm not sure how that would contradict my opinions on the content of the book. I don't think Kirkman himself either would say he considers his work derivative, and the book he cites as most influential on him is Savage Dragon.
Its normally not worth tangling with the various Bear incarnations sweeping statements... which is a sure sign I'm going to bite isn't it... BUTTTTTT I think its fair to say that DC not so recent relaunch was a very clear attempt to get a new audience. It seems to be, in large chunks, aimed at finding a younger audience and they have made clear comments to that effect.
The question, or sweeping statement should surely not who they are aiming at but, who they are using to create the books for the audience they are aiming at and therefore how successful that attempt has been... over all the market is still significantly up, significantly (well according to the figures made available) so regardless of the horrible mistakes made along the way and they appear to be many, for the market somethings happened. I don't assume the knowledge to pick that one apart... oh and that'd be derailing the thread even more.
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 17 September, 2014, 09:35:02 PM
I think its fair to say that DC not so recent relaunch was a very clear attempt to get a new audience. It seems to be, in large chunks, aimed at finding a younger audience and they have made clear comments to that effect.
http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2013/08/quote-of-the-day-we-publish-comics-for-45-year-olds/
Well that's conclusive!
No, that's just the publisher of DC Comics saying that they "publish comics for 45 year-olds" and Scooby-Doo - conclusive proof that there hadn't been any effort to attract new readers would be to examine the comics themselves and see if there'd been any sea change in the way they were produced after the reboot, or if DC had just bunged a #1 on the cover of their books and then had the same people working under the same editors making the same kind of comics they were making before.
or they could try My Little Pony?
Quote from: Proudhuff on 18 September, 2014, 12:45:17 PM
or they could try My Little Pony?
The Garth Ennis reboot where pony is a war vet who keeps having Nam flashbacks and likes to trample people for fun (but also has a strong sense of moral superiority and likes a drink)?
DC's all-ages Scooby-Doo books are actually quite good, but it only seems to be adults reading them. :q
Their other all-ages title - toy licence He-Man and the Masters of the Universe - is full of impalings and throat-slashings, but in fairness, apart from that it seem to have been left to itself so Keith Giffen can indulge his Jack Kirby fetish and Dan Abnett can do a pretty entertaining pastiche of the Hawk The Slayer and Beastmaster movies.
Quote from: Skullmo on 18 September, 2014, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 18 September, 2014, 12:45:17 PM
or they could try My Little Pony?
The Garth Ennis reboot where pony is a war vet who keeps having Nam flashbacks and likes to trample people for fun (but also has a strong sense of moral superiority and likes a drink)?
I preferred Garth's WWII My Little Pony vet in NY Central Park drawn by Howard Chaykin especially the stables scene :-[
Quote from: Proudhuff on 18 September, 2014, 02:13:49 PM
Quote from: Skullmo on 18 September, 2014, 12:51:41 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 18 September, 2014, 12:45:17 PM
or they could try My Little Pony?
The Garth Ennis reboot where pony is a war vet who keeps having Nam flashbacks and likes to trample people for fun (but also has a strong sense of moral superiority and likes a drink)?
I preferred Garth's WWII My Little Pony vet in NY Central Park drawn by Howard Chaykin especially the stables scene :-[
'Poor pony. They cut his friggin' tail off. Only left him an inch to swish with'
After discovering that Equestria Girls is a real thing and not Deviantart fanfiction/masturbatory fuel for furries, and that the MLP cartoon is an examination of the nature of reality as a gestalt delusion, it's likely that the above scenario has been done in the 'toons or comics already.
(edit for Scooby Doo Mystery Incorporated viewers) and will be done again.
Alan Moore and Mitch Jenkins' Jimmy's End now appears to be called Show Pieces, and will premiere at the Leeds Film Festival, featuring a Q&A with both creators:
http://www.leedsfilm.com/news/alan-moore-attend-liff28/
(http://i.imgur.com/whOEgw7.jpg?1)
From Scroobius Pip on facebook (https://www.facebook.com/scroobiuspip/photos/a.591264407586376.1073741827.148949218484566/806427486070066/?type=1&permPage=1): It's Wednesday, therefore it's Distraction Pieces Podcast day! A rare, rare interview with the legendary Alan Moore! When I announced the guests this was the one that got the most excitement and I feel certain it will deliver! Since Alan REALLY doesn't do the internet, we are relying on you lot to get the word out to fans, blogs and friends a like:
https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/distraction-pieces-podcast/id929136539
or
The Podcast tab at Scroobiuspip.co.uk (http://scroobiuspip.co.uk)
Quote from: TordelBack on 11 September, 2013, 09:34:48 AM
As always with the sublime Moore I do wish he'd qualify his statements a bit - contemporary comics are more than superheroic childhood escapism..
Exactly. I have shelves of comics...not one 'superhero'.
In saying this he is re-enforcing a stereotype that I thought passed many years ago, and one I'm sure he himself would have said had passed back in the day in one of hundreds of 'comics have grown up' interviews.
Quote from: Skullmo on 18 September, 2014, 03:05:15 PM
'Poor pony. They cut his friggin' tail off. Only left him an inch to swish with'
This remains the funniest post of the year.
Quote from: sauchie library on 29 October, 2014, 09:40:15 AM
A rare, rare interview with the legendary Alan Moore! When I announced the guests this was the one that got the most excitement and I feel certain it will deliver! Since Alan REALLY doesn't do the internet, we are relying on you lot to get the word out to fans, blogs and friends a like:
https://itunes.apple.com/podcast/distraction-pieces-podcast/id929136539
or
The Podcast tab at Scroobiuspip.co.uk (http://scroobiuspip.co.uk)
I listened to this while I was out for a walk, and it was a frustrating experience. Moore's funny and insightful, but Pip's as nervous and awed as any fan, which means he's
very indulgent of his host *.
There's a ton of incredibly specific detail on exactly how Moore's new film with Mitch Jenkins made it to the screen, which goes on forever, but if you can stay awake through that, Moore's description of the incredible depth of creativity he's employed during the production process makes it sound as if he's exploring how his
Watchmen methodology might be applied in the context of cinema. Moore also performs his spoken word piece,
Old Gangsters Never Die, which I haven't heard him do before.
*
the interview takes place in Moore's Northampton home, resulting in one of the funniest moments of the chat as the bin men turn up
** in direct opposition to Zac Snyder's approach when making Watchmen, which was to try and transfer what worked best on the page directly onto film
One of my oldest and bestest friends started, and still runs Lex Records, the company that is behind this project, and he was instrumental in getting these films made with Alan. He also released the Unearthing project which was a collaboration between Alan Moore and various musicians (he also released Scroobius Pip's first single amongst many other lovely musical things including the Neon Neon albums, most of MF DOOM's recent output and an upcoming Ghostface Killer album).
My friend is coming up for the Leeds Film Festival screening, and as a result, I'm on the guest list for tonight's showing of the Show Pieces films and Q and A session at Leeds Town Hall.
I'm hoping that there will be an opportunity for my friend to introduce me to Mr. Moore later on. I'll be sure to ask him to write a new series of Halo Jones, shortly before being asked to leave.
Gah, can it really be too late for Alan to work this (http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-30214707) into Jerusalem? Does it really have to wait for Voice of the Fire 2?
QuoteThe workshop was discovered at a site in Angel Street, the location of Northamptonshire County Council's new £43m headquarters. The MOLA team also carried out an excavation on Northampton's Norman castle in 2013, ahead of the redevelopment of the town's railway station. "People say 'Isn't it dreadful that modern developments take place', but it develops our knowledge and gives us the opportunity to look at the story of what's happened to those plots of land before."
See, Alan; not all of Northampton council's redevelopment strategy is the work of Beelzebub (http://www.northampton-news-hp.co.uk/Alan-Moore-calls-proficiency-test-political/story-22125497-detail/story.html). For all his formidable talent, intellect and alternative lifestyle, Moore is now no different to any semi-retired baby boomer - writing crank letters to the local paper about the council (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-27143620), telling them how to do their job (http://www.northampton-news-hp.co.uk/Alan-Moore-Double-Cross-Northampton-Borough/story-22967503-detail/story.html), and moaning that everything was better in the old days (http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/alan-moore-says-his-new-film-is-inspired-by-the-darkness-in-northampton-1-6256241).
Quote from: Proudhuff on 11 September, 2013, 10:38:15 AM
Re: Alan Moore thinks you're a prick! Er no he doesn't, well on this subject at least, but that's probably because I agree with his thoughts about the men in tights stuff, and the Talcy Malcy/fashion world stuff was interesting to hear.
[/quote
Same here - I steer well-clear of the superhero section in the comic shops I go to. The only ones I've read in depth are the likes of Watchmen (naturally), Zenith, Dark Knight Returns, Arkham Asylum and those that turned into Vertigo in 1990-something. Who was it who called them "adolescent power fantasies"? The only reason I could see for reading superhero comics is nostalgia from having originally read them when you were ten or so. Erm, not meaning to be offensive or anything (sorry)
Quote from: Frank on 31 January, 2015, 02:50:50 PM
See, Alan; not all of Northampton council's redevelopment strategy is the work of Beelzebub (http://www.northampton-news-hp.co.uk/Alan-Moore-calls-proficiency-test-political/story-22125497-detail/story.html). For all his formidable talent, intellect and alternative lifestyle, Moore is now no different to any semi-retired baby boomer - writing crank letters to the local paper about the council (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-27143620), telling them how to do their job (http://www.northampton-news-hp.co.uk/Alan-Moore-Double-Cross-Northampton-Borough/story-22967503-detail/story.html), and moaning that everything was better in the old days (http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/news/local/alan-moore-says-his-new-film-is-inspired-by-the-darkness-in-northampton-1-6256241).
Moore must be feeling V For Vindicated right now:
For four years, Northamptonshire's county council papered over the cracks of its deteriorating finances, blithely convinced the government would ultimately bail it out. Ministers refused to come to the rescue and now, amid political recriminations and public anger, the brutal correction starts.
From 2014 onwards, it failed to manage massive recurring overspends, which spiralled from £3m in 2014 to £32m in 2016-17. Over that period, at least £80m of planned savings never materialised and the council ignored internal warnings as early as 2015 that its finances were out of control.
The council balanced its books by draining its reserves. Back then, it had £57m in "rainy day" funds; now it has £12m. It used £40m in capital receipts from asset sales to fund day-to-day services. It misused £16m from the NHS earmarked for public health, spending it instead on social care.
What is clear from Thursday's council meeting is that the era of sticking plasters and accounting dodges is over. Northamptonshire finds itself having to make harsh, abrupt cuts on a huge scale – £70m in the next nine months alone. It will shine an unforgiving light on the plight of local government.
Patrick Butler Social policy editor Thu 9 Aug 2018 15.26 BST (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2018/aug/09/northamptonshire-council-backs-bare-minimum-service-plan)
Many happy returns to Mr Gebbie, whose brisk walks into town to pick up a veggie ready meal from M&S will now include a stop at the Post Office to collect his state pension*
Long life, good health and all the best to Moore, his family and however many wives and girlfriends they deem necessary.
* Lovely to think of Moore being told he's inserted his card the wrong way and needing three goes to get his PIN number right, like the old dears in my local. No wonder he and Kev O'Neill are calling it a day with the latest League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which is excellent, by the way
Quote from: Frank on 18 November, 2018, 10:07:47 AM
Many happy returns to Mr Gebbie, whose brisk walks into town to pick up a veggie ready meal from M&S will now include a stop at the Post Office to collect his state pension*
Long life, good health and all the best to Moore, his family and however many wives and girlfriends they deem necessary.
* Lovely to think of Moore being told he's inserted his card the wrong way and needing three goes to get his PIN number right, like the old dears in my local. No wonder he and Kev O'Neill are calling it a day with the latest League Of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which is excellent, by the way
Speaking of which - has their been any update on Leah's health? Hope she's doing well
*fingers crossed*Seems like quite a while since the most recent installment of LoEG...
Part Three of The Tempest has been put back to December, but as O'Neill says, nobody's ever read a comic they loved and said 'that was brilliant; if only it had come out on schedule'. And Leah Moore is well enough for Twitter (https://twitter.com/leahmoore?lang=en).
The following has definitely been posted here before, but I defy anyone to (re)read this and still be mad at Moore for telling us all to grow up and read Joyce:
In 2013, a then-9-year-old boy named Joshua wrote to his hero, Alan Moore, the genius responsible for writing such classics as Watchmen, V for Vendetta, and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
Dear Alan Moore
I am writing because I want to know more about your comics including V for Vendetta, Watchmen, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Swamp Thing. I also want to say thank you for making such amazing graphic novels and how did you make such wonderful things?
The first book I saw was V for Vendetta which has a brilliant storyline and is very cool when he blows up Parliament. I also love his awesome mask. Watchmen was the second, so far the best book I have ever seen - Rorschach is my favourite character, then Dr. Manhattan, lastly the Comedian. I like the way he uses a flamethrower as a cigar lighter and a smiley face for a badge. My third favourite was the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I like the way it's more like a book because it has lots of writing in it and I also like the things that they have collected. All in all you are the best author in human history. Please write back.
Joshua
--------------------
Dear Joshua
Well, first of all, thank you for a lovely letter. I apologise if this reply is a bit short, but I'm working really hard on about six different things at once just now, and I know that if I put replying to you off until later when I had more time then I might lose your letter (you should see all the books and papers and clutter filling nearly every room in my house), or not get back to you for some other reason. After your kind words about me and my writing I really didn't want to do that, so here I am in an odd half hour between finishing one piece of work and starting another.
I'm really pleased that you've enjoyed so much of my stuff, and especially because most of my readers these days are people almost as old as I am. Of course, I appreciate my audience however old they are, but it's particularly gratifying to think that I've got intelligent and adventurous readers of your own age out there. It's the kind of thing, when I'm taking my vitamin pills and swilling them down with Lemsip, that makes me feel like I'm still 'down with the kids'.
Books like Watchmen, V for Vendetta and Swamp Thing were done back when I was just starting my career in the 1980s, when I was in my twenties or thirties. I'm glad they're still enjoyable today, and as for how I wrote them...well, I suppose I'd have to say that I started out, when I was your age or a little younger, by being simply in love with comics or books that were full of brilliant ideas that set my imagination on fire. From a very young age, I was trying to emulate the people whose stories I was reading by writing little stories or poems or even little comic books drawn in coloured biro on lined jotter paper and then stapled together. I'm not saying that these things were any good, but that I had tremendous fun doing them and that they at least taught me the beginnings of the skills that my writing would need in later life.
As well as writing and drawing, I was also reading as much as I could about the things that interested me...this is why libraries are so important...whether that be in books or comics or any other medium that I could get my hands on. When I was reading things, part of me (probably the biggest part) would just be enjoying the story because it was so exciting, or scary, or funny or whatever, while another part of me would be trying to work out why I'd enjoyed whatever it was so much. I tried to understand what it was that the author had done that had had such a powerful effect upon me. It might be some clever story-telling effect that had tickled my brain, or it might be a powerful use of symbolism that had struck a deep, buried chord inside me, but whatever it was I wanted to understand it because I figured that if I understood these things, I'd probably be a better writer than if I didn't.
As I got older, while I found I still enjoyed a lot of the books and comics I'd grown up with, I found that I was becoming able to appreciate all sorts of other writings and art that I hadn't been able to get to grips with before, and I started to apply the lessons that I'd learned from these different sources to my writing. Thus, when I finally entered the comic field in my late twenties, I'd probably got a much wider range of influences than most of the other writers in the field at the time and was able to produce work that was very different to what had been seen before. I liked to experiment with things (I still do, for that matter), and to try and think of a different way that I could write a specific scene or a specific story. I think that one of the most important things for any artist or writer is that they should always be progressing and trying new things, because that is what will keep your work feeling fresh and lively to your readers even after twenty or thirty years. Yes, it means that you have to work harder, and to think harder, and to generally keep pushing yourself and testing your limits, but in my opinion the results are definitely worth it.
Although I'm still very proud of the work that I did on all the books mentioned above, the fact that I no longer own any of those titles (I'm afraid they're all owned by perhaps-less-than-scrupulous big comic-book companies) means that I'm always most interested in my most recent work, so I was glad that you'd liked The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which Kevin and I still own and have a great deal of fun doing. I know that a very clever young man named Jess Nevins runs a website at which he picks through all of the volumes of The League and points out all the different books, plays, films and stories that we're making references to. Although a lot of the books mentioned might be pretty boring until you're older, there's a few of them that you might really love, and some of them might help you to enjoy The League a bit more.
Speaking of The League, I'm enclosing a couple of things with this letter, including a copy of the brand new Heart of Ice book. In case you haven't seen League volume III, Century, (which isn't out in collected form yet) the main character in Heart of Ice is the original Captain Nemo's daughter, Janni Dakkar, who somewhat reluctantly took over her father's command of the Nautilus when he died of old age in 1910. Heart of Ice shows Janni attempting to recapture some of her father's past glories and ending up running into a scenario from the work of American weird tale master, H.P. Lovecraft. As well as this, I'm also including a couple of pages of unlettered art that I've received from Kevin for the next book in the series, which is entitled The Roses of Berlin. Nobody except me, Kevin and our publishers have seen these yet, so this is a special preview just for you. Please guard them with your life (not literally, of course), and don't let them get onto the internet or anywhere...I mean, I'm sure you wouldn't dream of such a thing, but it's just that Kevin puts such a lot of work into these pages, and he wants people to see them when they're properly lettered and coloured and everything, and part of the actual story that they're intended for. Anyway, I hope you enjoy them.
Well, I've just looked at the clock and realised that I'd better get down town (Northampton) if I want to get my wife Melinda a present for our wedding anniversary on Sunday. Thanks again for a great letter, and thanks for calling me the best author in human history, which I don't necessarily agree is completely true but which I may well end up using as a quote on the back of one of my books someday. Oh, and please give my regards to Naseby. It gets more than a couple of mentions in my forthcoming novel Jerusalem, which I'm about two chapters away from the end of at present.
Take care of yourself, Joshua. You're obviously a young man of extraordinary good taste and intelligence, and you confirm my suspicion that Northamptonshire is a county touched by the gods.
All the best, your pal —
[Signed 'Alan Moore']
(Best Author in Human History. In your face, Shakespeare, Joyce and Cervantes!)
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2016/07/you-are-best-author-in-human-history.html
Quote from: Frank on 19 November, 2018, 10:07:09 PM
Part Three of The Tempest has been put back to December, but as O'Neill says, nobody's ever read a comic they loved and said 'that was brilliant; if only it had come out on schedule'. And Leah Moore is well enough for Twitter (https://twitter.com/leahmoore?lang=en).
The following has definitely been posted here before, but I defy anyone to (re)read this and still be mad at Moore for telling us all to grow up and read Joyce:
In 2013, a then-9-year-old boy named Joshua wrote to his hero, Alan Moore, the genius responsible for writing such classics as Watchmen, V for Vendetta, and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen.
Dear Alan Moore
I am writing because I want to know more about your comics including V for Vendetta, Watchmen, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen and Swamp Thing. I also want to say thank you for making such amazing graphic novels and how did you make such wonderful things?
The first book I saw was V for Vendetta which has a brilliant storyline and is very cool when he blows up Parliament. I also love his awesome mask. Watchmen was the second, so far the best book I have ever seen - Rorschach is my favourite character, then Dr. Manhattan, lastly the Comedian. I like the way he uses a flamethrower as a cigar lighter and a smiley face for a badge. My third favourite was the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I like the way it's more like a book because it has lots of writing in it and I also like the things that they have collected. All in all you are the best author in human history. Please write back.
Joshua
--------------------
Dear Joshua
Well, first of all, thank you for a lovely letter. I apologise if this reply is a bit short, but I'm working really hard on about six different things at once just now, and I know that if I put replying to you off until later when I had more time then I might lose your letter (you should see all the books and papers and clutter filling nearly every room in my house), or not get back to you for some other reason. After your kind words about me and my writing I really didn't want to do that, so here I am in an odd half hour between finishing one piece of work and starting another.
I'm really pleased that you've enjoyed so much of my stuff, and especially because most of my readers these days are people almost as old as I am. Of course, I appreciate my audience however old they are, but it's particularly gratifying to think that I've got intelligent and adventurous readers of your own age out there. It's the kind of thing, when I'm taking my vitamin pills and swilling them down with Lemsip, that makes me feel like I'm still 'down with the kids'.
Books like Watchmen, V for Vendetta and Swamp Thing were done back when I was just starting my career in the 1980s, when I was in my twenties or thirties. I'm glad they're still enjoyable today, and as for how I wrote them...well, I suppose I'd have to say that I started out, when I was your age or a little younger, by being simply in love with comics or books that were full of brilliant ideas that set my imagination on fire. From a very young age, I was trying to emulate the people whose stories I was reading by writing little stories or poems or even little comic books drawn in coloured biro on lined jotter paper and then stapled together. I'm not saying that these things were any good, but that I had tremendous fun doing them and that they at least taught me the beginnings of the skills that my writing would need in later life.
As well as writing and drawing, I was also reading as much as I could about the things that interested me...this is why libraries are so important...whether that be in books or comics or any other medium that I could get my hands on. When I was reading things, part of me (probably the biggest part) would just be enjoying the story because it was so exciting, or scary, or funny or whatever, while another part of me would be trying to work out why I'd enjoyed whatever it was so much. I tried to understand what it was that the author had done that had had such a powerful effect upon me. It might be some clever story-telling effect that had tickled my brain, or it might be a powerful use of symbolism that had struck a deep, buried chord inside me, but whatever it was I wanted to understand it because I figured that if I understood these things, I'd probably be a better writer than if I didn't.
As I got older, while I found I still enjoyed a lot of the books and comics I'd grown up with, I found that I was becoming able to appreciate all sorts of other writings and art that I hadn't been able to get to grips with before, and I started to apply the lessons that I'd learned from these different sources to my writing. Thus, when I finally entered the comic field in my late twenties, I'd probably got a much wider range of influences than most of the other writers in the field at the time and was able to produce work that was very different to what had been seen before. I liked to experiment with things (I still do, for that matter), and to try and think of a different way that I could write a specific scene or a specific story. I think that one of the most important things for any artist or writer is that they should always be progressing and trying new things, because that is what will keep your work feeling fresh and lively to your readers even after twenty or thirty years. Yes, it means that you have to work harder, and to think harder, and to generally keep pushing yourself and testing your limits, but in my opinion the results are definitely worth it.
Although I'm still very proud of the work that I did on all the books mentioned above, the fact that I no longer own any of those titles (I'm afraid they're all owned by perhaps-less-than-scrupulous big comic-book companies) means that I'm always most interested in my most recent work, so I was glad that you'd liked The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which Kevin and I still own and have a great deal of fun doing. I know that a very clever young man named Jess Nevins runs a website at which he picks through all of the volumes of The League and points out all the different books, plays, films and stories that we're making references to. Although a lot of the books mentioned might be pretty boring until you're older, there's a few of them that you might really love, and some of them might help you to enjoy The League a bit more.
Speaking of The League, I'm enclosing a couple of things with this letter, including a copy of the brand new Heart of Ice book. In case you haven't seen League volume III, Century, (which isn't out in collected form yet) the main character in Heart of Ice is the original Captain Nemo's daughter, Janni Dakkar, who somewhat reluctantly took over her father's command of the Nautilus when he died of old age in 1910. Heart of Ice shows Janni attempting to recapture some of her father's past glories and ending up running into a scenario from the work of American weird tale master, H.P. Lovecraft. As well as this, I'm also including a couple of pages of unlettered art that I've received from Kevin for the next book in the series, which is entitled The Roses of Berlin. Nobody except me, Kevin and our publishers have seen these yet, so this is a special preview just for you. Please guard them with your life (not literally, of course), and don't let them get onto the internet or anywhere...I mean, I'm sure you wouldn't dream of such a thing, but it's just that Kevin puts such a lot of work into these pages, and he wants people to see them when they're properly lettered and coloured and everything, and part of the actual story that they're intended for. Anyway, I hope you enjoy them.
Well, I've just looked at the clock and realised that I'd better get down town (Northampton) if I want to get my wife Melinda a present for our wedding anniversary on Sunday. Thanks again for a great letter, and thanks for calling me the best author in human history, which I don't necessarily agree is completely true but which I may well end up using as a quote on the back of one of my books someday. Oh, and please give my regards to Naseby. It gets more than a couple of mentions in my forthcoming novel Jerusalem, which I'm about two chapters away from the end of at present.
Take care of yourself, Joshua. You're obviously a young man of extraordinary good taste and intelligence, and you confirm my suspicion that Northamptonshire is a county touched by the gods.
All the best, your pal —
[Signed 'Alan Moore']
(Best Author in Human History. In your face, Shakespeare, Joyce and Cervantes!)
http://www.lettersofnote.com/2016/07/you-are-best-author-in-human-history.html
Thanks for posting, just loved reading his reply.
No worries. My favourite part is 'I apologise if this reply is a bit short', followed by another 1,300 words. If artists' descriptions of Moore's scripts are accurate, that might actually be his equivalent of a post-it on the fridge.
or a girlfriend in it.
The bit I like best of all is that one of the reviewers' quotes on the back of the vast tome that Moore spent a big chunk of his career writing, alongside Moorcock's and Sinclair's, is indeed Joshua's "best author in human history". He's the hairy embodiment of pure class, that magus.
Also, the book is fecking amazing. If you haven't tried it, you should.
I love Alan Moore.
He once said it's his job to give his audience what they 'need' rather than what they 'want'.
And the older I get the more I understand what he means.
There's pieces of his work that I only appreciated years later.
And maybe some that I still need to revalue.
He has been proved correct that Superhero comics now largely force an adult world on two dimensional characters that were never intended to tell such stories.
I think his whole ABC line will get a new appraisal. I just love having him around.
Quote from: TordelBack on 20 November, 2018, 08:07:06 PM
The bit I like best of all is that one of the reviewers' quotes on the back of the vast tome that Moore spent a big chunk of his career writing, alongside Moorcock's and Sinclair's, is indeed Joshua's "best author in human history". He's the hairy embodiment of pure class, that magus.
Also, the book is fecking amazing. If you haven't tried it, you should.
Does it have his contractually obliged rape scene?
And then some! Child abuse and incest too! In fact, it's literally all ages.
Think of it as being like the Bible (which is positively recommended for kids), just set in a few streets in Northampton, and less judgey.
Although still quite judgey. It must be hard to be impartial when you know the score.
I really don't need that in my head... maybe give it a miss, why doesn't he write my little pony any moore?
Will he still think I'm a prick if I promise to go and see this film he's making (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-46524370)?
Quote from: I, Cosh on 21 December, 2018, 10:06:38 AM
Will he still think I'm a prick if I promise to go and see this film he's making (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-46524370)?
According to IMDB, Moore plays a character called Frank (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9165824/fullcredits/?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm). How
dirty Frank will be is a question of interest to readers of
2000ad.
The BFI's Ten Biggest Production Awards Of 2018:
£900,000: The Show
Graphic novel supremo Alan Moore's (Watchmen) latest creation stars Tom Burke (War And Peace), Siobhan Hewlett (Show Pieces) and Ellie Bamber (Nocturnal Animals). Mitch Jenkins (Show Pieces) is directing from Moore's script. The Gothic fantasy follows Fletcher Dennis (Burke) who has been hired to track down a stolen artefact, an investigation that brings him into contact with the most unusual and dangerous elements in Moore and Jenkins' hometown Northampton.
https://deadline.com/2018/12/henry-golding-keira-knightley-liam-neeson-bfi-ten-biggest-production-awards-2018-women-directors-two-debuts-1202524538/
I like how many professional comics writers - IE: Christos Gage, Gerry Conway, Mark Guggenheim - come from a tv background in shows like Law & Order: SVU and are never pulled up on the fact that they make their living writing weekly stories about rape that are watched by millions more people than will ever read a comic book by Alan Moore*, yet it's the bearded one's critics who fetishise are fixated on the use of sexual assault in some of his work.
The only time I saw fit to criticise its use, I was almost immediately pulled up on it by some huge nerd from this very board telling me the specific instance I cited was in fact a reference to a classic poem from some 13th century literary canon because it's Alan Moore so of course it was. After that I decided to think a bit more carefully about wading into what now seems (at best) to be an attempt by some comics geeks to pidgeonhole a versatile range of work to one or two talking points.
* I am vaguely curious about the Venn showing overlap in SVU viewers and readers of the likes of Chat, Take A Break, That's Life, etc, which are light-hearted supermarket tabloid magazines I have to buy for elderly female relatives and which seem obsessed with murder and sexual assault.
Quote from: Professor Bear on 21 December, 2018, 02:31:55 PM
I like how many professional comics writers - IE: Christos Gage, Gerry Conway, Mark Guggenheim - come from a tv background in shows like Law & Order: SVU and are never pulled up on the fact that they make their living writing weekly stories about rape that are watched by millions more people than will ever read a comic book by Alan Moore*, yet it's the bearded one's critics who fetishise are fixated on the use of sexual assault in some of his work.
The only time I saw fit to criticise its use, I was almost immediately pulled up on it by some huge nerd from this very board telling me the specific instance I cited was in fact a reference to a classic poem from some 13th century literary canon because it's Alan Moore so of course it was. After that I decided to think a bit more carefully about wading into what now seems (at best) to be an attempt by some comics geeks to pidgeonhole a versatile range of work to one or two talking points.
* I am vaguely curious about the Venn showing overlap in SVU viewers and readers of the likes of Chat, Take A Break, That's Life, etc, which are light-hearted supermarket tabloid magazines I have to buy for elderly female relatives and which seem obsessed with murder and sexual assault.
I never understand why certain people are happy to read endless tales where people are murdered (571 in the UK in 2017) but claim somebody is fixated if rape or sexual assault are mentioned (half a million in the UK in 2017). Approximately one in one hundred thousand people in the UK will die by murder. Approximately one in five women will be raped. Why does highlighting the prevalence of rape in our culture lead to accusations against those doing the highlighting?
Leaving aside that I'm on record complaining bitterly about the use of murder in entertainment and in particular the skyrocketing bodycounts of modern comics until the very concepts of death and civilian casualties become meaningless, I thought I was pretty clear my amusement in this instance lies with the transparently geeky motivations for suddenly being woke about the treatment of sexual assault in Western comics.
If you're a fundraiser for RAINN, I perfectly understand your investment in awareness, but if you read Western comics and the only time you ever mention a very serious subject is when it can be weaponised against a certain individual, that doesn't seem to me to be an attempt to raise awareness about it, that's clearly just a way to exploit it to attack someone.
"One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic." Iosef Visarionovich Dzughashevili
Happy 66th birthday, you fantastic weirdo.
(https://i.imgur.com/iGZswaB.png)