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[Part 2 - Not on the List Alan Moore's Swamp Thing]

Part 2 - Not on the List Alan Moore's Swamp Thing

Alan Moore's Swamp Thing is a really creative piece of work. It reads to me as a writer learning more and more of his craft and experimenting with what he can achieve and learning that frankly that's an incredible amount. Across the 42 (I think it is) issues he seems to be growing and stretching in different ways. And it's that which means much as I enjoy these comics I don't place them on my list. There's not the same sense of focused aim in this run, it flits across different ideas and themes, different ways of approaching how to use the character to tell different stories.

Now fair to say this should be a strength after all there will be numerous series, runs and stories where I enjoy this happening on this list and I do here, just not as much as with others. Its restlessness when combined with the fractured way I have come to these tales means they've never quite coalesced into a whole for me. They've never quite felt like a single story, even one using multiple storytelling ideas in the way I think I most enjoy.

I'm really conscious I'm likely being unfair here. I long intended to get the comics in a single format, maybe 'just' digitally and give it another go to see how well it hangs together. I've just never gotten around to it - see previous posts on there just being too many damned good comics out there. And these have never quite held that place in my heart to make me do that... yet. I do wonder when I do whether I will engage with these more and more positively.

After all I love superhero comics and these are good superhero comics... or are they. These almost self consciously push against being superhero comics, or at least traditional ones. Swamp Thing is born of horror comics. Yet Alan Moore and some brilliant artists he works with, seems enamoured with playing in the superhero universe he has his hands in and loved so much growing up. In doing that I think we get to why I've not rushed to that re-read. Just as we witness a writer experimenting with his craft and never quite being settled into a single story. Moore never seems to quite settle what he wants this to be in terms of genre. Again genre bending  and mixing can be a really good thing. In this run however it feels more restless and unsettled. As if his desire to play with the superhero toys he has available to him stops him fully committing to what this might otherwise have been if he'd committed fully to this being a horror, supernatural comic and in some ways it falls between the two stalls.

I think it's this that means I've not rushed back to these. I've never quite settled with what this is. In part due to the way I've been introduced to these tales, in part by what I see Moore doing, or not doing. These are really good comics and I will get back to them. They're just not Moore's best for me.

We'll get to those as the list goes on.

[Part 1 - Not on the List Alan Moore's Swamp Thing]

Part 1 - Not on the List Alan Moore's Swamp Thing



Not on the list - Alan Moore's Swamp Thing

Look I promise you these 'Not on the list' entries aren't just going to become apologise for which Alan Moore comics don't make my list, but he's so significant that it sometimes feels necessary! Anyway this time I'm going to quickly discuss why


Copyright - DC Comics

isn't on the list. This one crops up here, but it could just as easily have appeared after my entry for Madman and this is as much about how I reflect on this run in relation to how I've read it as much as how I compare it to Moore's other work.

Let's get some basics out the way before getting any further into that. As most of you likely know Alan Moore's run of Swamp Thing started in 1984 and became in many ways the figurehead of the British Invasion of mainstream US comics (though artists Dave Gibbons and Brian Bolland got there first). Swamp Thing was an established DC character having been created in 1971 by Len Wein and Bernie Wrightson. It dabbled on the edges of the DC Universe, more linked to its horror titles, than DC's superhero ones. A short lived first series was followed up, off the back of a Wes Craven low budget movie, in 1982 with a second ongoing which didn't really do much. Until issue 21 - Moore having used his first issue 20 to tie up the existing plot threads. In the now famous issue 21 'Anatomy Lesson' Moore redeveloped the character's origin using the pieces that had been there before but in new, creative ways to redefine Swampy's story. He then built on this over a run lasting almost 4 years and 40 issues that for many refined not just the character but what could be done with a mainstream US comic series.

I have read this entire run, but only once from beginning to end in chronological order of publication. And even that was from a number of different sources and formats. This was also after reading pretty much all of it in bits and bats across the years and I do mean many years. I had a load of the 'Moore issues' back in the day when I was first collecting, but not all. Then when I got back into comics I picked up a number of issues, different ones as I sold the one's I'd previously owned. I then get a hardcover of the start of the run and some issues of Essential Vertigo issues - a black and white reprinting of the run (grrrh why do so many comics get this but not V for Vendetta!).

While gathering all this my reading list was nothing like as long as it is now so the run was first read in these bits and pieces, not as a cohesive whole. I did finally do a re-read from beginning to end maybe 15 years ago. I do wonder though if my initial fractured reading over the many years has impacted how I reflected on it. First impressions last and all that.

See on that re-read I found it slightly meandering. Moore is doing a LOT over the course of the run. From its beginning when it felt more firmly rooted in DC superhero stories, albeit using the characters in incredibly interesting ways, offering new reflections on these characters. He then seemed to try to focus (even) more on the horror and magical aspects creating a corner of DCs universe that is still well used today. Swamp Thing was becoming a key character of the wider world he was based in so even at the end of this time of Moore trying to create a space to tell different stories he was drawn back into DC proper. The Universe reshaping Crisis on Infinite Earths jumps into the key American Gothic storyline. So Moore takes drastic action, as I see it, and decides to have one last hooray with Batman before spinning Swamp Thing off into space to liberate him from as many confines as possible. To be fair this is likely not true as even when the disembodied Swampy is travelling the cosmos he encounters numerous characters from DC's cosmic corners. It's just the issues post 54 feel like Moore really spreading his wings, even further than he had already, and pushing the boundaries of what he could achieve in a 'regular' DC comic beyond even what he had already.

Nicely said and welcome aboard.

[Dredd]

Well after we had set up last Prog we get pay off and how this week.

Dredd brilliant stuff. For me Dredd here works, cutting to the case and being dick as he's all about the crackin' on is very Dredd. Loved this one.

Intestanauts well its always been fun, but this one double downed on the fun!

3riller - Blue skies over Deadwick like a lot of 3rillers we kick off with a blinder. Engaging imaginataive and just superb. The trick with these things is keepin' it up and sticking the landing but David Baillie has good form havinf written my favourite ever 3riller so I'm optimistic.

Brink - I mean its brilliant is it. And am I over reading things by seeing Halo Jone and Toy page 1 panel 5?

Proteus Vex - I mean it runs Brink close its that good. Wow loved it - why is this ending!

Superb Prog.

Happy cleaning!

We so appreciate y'all. This thread may not be as active as it once was, but you regulars are so great. I'm gonna go quiet for a bit to make sure I'm not scaring folks away, but I'll continue to post new episode notes & calls for questions.

To be fair it's generally a lot quieter around here alas.

i could have sworn we already knew this was the last series months ago i recall some of us talking about how to get the series completed in the ultimate collection because of that news

Quite true, I even think that Mike Carroll mentioned on his twitter feed this but I think the problem is a lot of us is in denial since whom wants such an excellent story to end

Yeah that's defo true. If I knew this I completely blanket it out!

If King David disappoints then I'll run away and never speak to you again.

Ha! All I can say at this point is it looks amazing.

Boots defo meet up for a drink after the VIP thing

Definitely! You can tell us all about hobnobbing with the big names

Yeah we can live vicariously through you!

[Completely self-absorbed update]

Completely self-absorbed update

So the re-read of Power Pack has started - I covered the comics in Entry 87 and man its fun already. I'd forgotten how much the first story in issues 1-4 reads like an 80s kids/teen movies like ET, The Expolorers or even The Goonies. Its paced and plotted in such a similar way. With events leading our characters deeper and deeper into adventure and discovery as the story progresses. Yet the relationships between the young leads really being the driver and the events used to explore those relationships and their relationship to the danager and excitment they are thrown into with any of the presumption or fixed world view of the adults.

I do get the sense these first four issues were written as a self-contained 4 issue mini (4 issues being very much the vogue at the time). I've no idea if that was the case, but it defo reads like it. That adds to the sense this is a movie plot presented so brillantly in comic form! I get why they made an apparently terrible film way back when!

Seriously if folks like ET we should be handing them these comics!

On another note I've also delved further in Kyle Baker's works following conversation here and found a couple of really cheap bundles of his work so I've picked up:

I die at midnight
Alice through the looking glass
You are here
King David

as well as nicer editions (the originals I believe) of both Why I hate Saturn and The Cowboy Wally Show. I'm unlikely to get these read before this countdown ends (such is the monstrousity of my too read spreadsheet and I can't keep giving things bumps up that list!) but man oh man they all look incredible.

Getting ahead of things here, just like Simon so fittingly I guess, but just listened to the lastest episode on the way into work this morning and it covers 'The Chaperone'. As folks who know the story know this one is a beaut. I always forget (and remembering how recently I re-read Dante! Arh my aging noggin) how early the reveal about Arkady is. Been looking forward to this one and the shift in the story it foreshadows.

That can at times rather overshadow what a fun story this is in its own right. So much good stuff backed into this one with great focus on Elena which is always cool.

Great podcast as every the ease and affection between the two of you (assuming 'Illyana' pops in here!) just gives the show such energy and charm.

Only the Tsar's Daughter before we hit Amerika and from there, while there's a way to go the series feels like its charging from big event to big reveal, to big event all the way to the magnificent end. So much fun for folks to cover!

Oh there is so much about that to the more childish modern eye that's open to giggles!

Thanks!

I can't for the life of me remember where I heard it, might have been other strips - have a vague memory of someone who later became famous being a bit embarrassed about their photostrip work

Tony Hadley from Spandau Ballet?  Appeared in a My Guy photostrip - presumably before being lead singer of the band.

Now this is a very VERY good fact!

Really good writeup and analysis there Colin. I've not read this for a long, long time - it's a book that at it's core has a heart of stone and as I've become older I've looked for a more comfortable read, I admit. I must revisit it, and soon.

Its defo one I think will grow with you. Certainly I love it for very different reasons now than I did when it first came out. Interestingly though maybe not any more (by which I mean I love it the same quantity, say 12 loves out of 14 hearts - ahem - but for very different reason. Which in itself is very impressive!

The movie adapts a couple of the book's key moments quite faithfully and kind of has its heart in the right place — I like it, but as an 'interesting failure'. There's a lot to like in it, but I don't think it quite works, either as an adaptation or a successful film in its own right.

I'd be kinder to the film as I like it as a film in its own right but for me doesn't get close to how good the comic is. Though to be fair that is normally the case with adaptions, particularly movies adapting comics, movies just can't get the depth that reading a comic does... or at least are very rarely able to do so.

This, and his run on Swamp Thing, are probably my favourite (long form) bits of Moore's work from his 'mainstream' phase.

Arh just wait until Monday - you'll pity me even more!

It looks like I will have to get my hands on this then

Yep! One of those one I feel very self recommending to just about anyone.

I also echo that I'd much prefer a B+W version of the book, but I suspect that's either impossible (in the sense no B+W art survives) or DC just isn't interested (perhaps due to the mess that was created when it took on the series, which has subsequently denied Moore the rights to his work back).

Arh yeah good point I wonder if its just not available in black white form to reproduce from with the quality to justify it.

I think one key reason why I like V for Vendetta mroe than Watchmen is that it fels VERY British. Not just because the story is set in Britain, mostly because the comics style it uses is very British - you can tell it was written in short chunks, and that the creators put effort into making each small chunk feel like a satisfying mini-story.

Yeah its pacing and structure do feel very British. Which is of course doubled down on with the way its so Leopard of Lime Street compared to Watchmen's Spider-man!

...Essex County (which is by a margin Lemires best work imho).

Black Hammer I loved also until Dean Ormiston stopped on art duties (I have the first 2 OHC), then not so much and I dropped off.

There's a couple of Jeff Lemire stories still to come on the list, so therefore that I think I prefer BUT I do wonder when I next read Essex County with where my reading is at these days that will get to the head of the list. its another one that the act of writing about it made me readly appreciate it more than my memory had it!

[Part 3 - Number 82 - V for Vendetta]

Part 3 - Number 82 - V for Vendetta


Copyright - DC Comics

V for Vendetta, as most you will know is probably best known as a movie now. The image of V has become an icon for resistance that has grown out of that movie. The comic has to a degree been lost a little in the mix. Though the good news is that its exposure across different media mean that it is still on bookshelves, still readily available and if not known by all who would recognise the mask, at least known by a lot more than otherwise might. That's a very good thing as for me it's arguably the strongest, tightest story Alan Moore has done. It's not Alan Moore's final entry on this list by a long way, but aided by David Lloyd's astonishing grim art it might well be the best and most important story Moore has told.

Where to find it

It's not a hard one to get hold of this. It's been in print since DC released the comic series. The only question you will face is which version you want to purchase. There's quite a few from the regular trade collection, to 30th anniversary deluxe edition, absolute edition, with a mask, without a mask, however you fancy, all easily available digitally (well except the mask!)... just not the black and white edition I so want amazingly!

To get those earlier episodes in black and white you'll need to go back to the original copies of Warrior in the aftermarket. They are beginning to get a little pricey however, though easy enough to find. As are the comic's DC originally printed, they are out there are pretty easy to get, but beginning to get a little pricey.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page

A lot has been said about V in many places so you'll not struggle to find out more about this series. First and foremost I'd recommend our Eamonn's Mega City Book Club for a really good dissection of the series alongside Giles Richards.

Then maybe try Off My Shelves has a nice overview - we might well see this channel more often here!

Already a regular Near Mint Condition gives you a run down of the different (?!?) Absolute Editions you can get before you shell out on that if you are thinking about doing so.

There's so much commentary out there I've plucked one from The Guardian almost at random, but just do a search (remember to add comic or the movie will dominate) and you will find a lot of reflections, reviews out there.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list.