The Political Thread

[Jim_Campbell]

No, Jim, it isn't. This is the crux of the matter - Scottish people are not English. I genuinely hate it that Scottish people have to wrap themselves in the Union Jack to prove their "loyalty."

Attempt at humour clearly failed -- I honestly don't know how you got to "proving your loyalty" from what I said.

(However, it IS kind of depressing that the Scots will support the French over the English when the English would absolutely support the Scots over the French in the reverse situation.  Your failure to hate the French as much as we do renders you all deeply suspect. If you love them so much, maybe you should all just... oh.)

Cheers

Jim

[Frank]

if rUK and the BoE don't allow currency union ... they will simply fall back on the ready made excuse of 'English intransigence' to blame for their woes

It's difficult to imagine Scots blaming all our difficulties and defeats on the English for more than 300 years. We're not ones to hang onto old grievances.

[8-Ball]

No, Jim, it isn't. This is the crux of the matter - Scottish people are not English. I genuinely hate it that Scottish people have to wrap themselves in the Union Jack to prove their "loyalty."

Attempt at humour clearly failed -- I honestly don't know how you got to "proving your loyalty" from what I said.

(However, it IS kind of depressing that the Scots will support the French over the English when the English would absolutely support the Scots over the French in the reverse situation.  Your failure to hate the French as much as we do renders you all deeply suspect. If you love them so much, maybe you should all just... oh.)

Cheers

Jim

Sorry Jim. You hit a raw nerve. I've been on this planet for about 35 years now and 35 years of hearing and seeing such wonderful things as "Sour faced Scots", "Whinging Jocks", "Chip on your shoulder", "Subsidy Junkies", "One eyed Scottish idiot" etc. from the people south of the border starts to take its toll. Enough is enough.

[Modern Panther]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_JS5WCO31Y

[8-Ball]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_JS5WCO31Y

Sad but true.
And with that I am done. I think that I have made a mistake commenting on a topic that I was going to stay clear from. I'm even coming around to the idea of going back to lurking in general. This place has become far too quiet and when boarders do converse with each other things seem to escalate in horrible ways. Seeya guys, 8-Ball (Ian Andrew Fleming) signing off.

[Jim_Campbell]

Sorry Jim. You hit a raw nerve.

Hah! You think you get a name like James Campbell by accident? My Dad was Scots (born in Shetland, no less) and his side of the family cluster largely in the West round Dumfries & Galloway where I spent twice-yearly family holidays until my mid-teens. There's a part of me that would be desperately saddened if Scotland became a foreign country.

(Not an attempt to persuade anyone North of the border to vote one way or the other, just a personal emotional reaction to the prospect.)

Cheers

Jim

[Spikes]

No, Jim, it isn't. This is the crux of the matter - Scottish people are not English. I genuinely hate it that Scottish people have to wrap themselves in the Union Jack to prove their "loyalty."

Attempt at humour clearly failed -- I honestly don't know how you got to "proving your loyalty" from what I said.

(However, it IS kind of depressing that the Scots will support the French over the English when the English would absolutely support the Scots over the French in the reverse situation.  Your failure to hate the French as much as we do renders you all deeply suspect. If you love them so much, maybe you should all just... oh.)

Cheers

Jim

Sorry Jim. You hit a raw nerve. I've been on this planet for about 35 years now and 35 years of hearing and seeing such wonderful things as "Sour faced Scots", "Whinging Jocks", "Chip on your shoulder", "Subsidy Junkies", "One eyed Scottish idiot" etc. from the people south of the border starts to take its toll. Enough is enough.

Blimey....
You think you've got it bad? Try being English! We get shit thrown at us from literally EVERYBODY.

But i'll let you into our secret for coping: We don't give a fuck.

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

Nah, you know what...
I was going to leave it at that, but over the last couple of days you've made a couple of bizarre claims which you've made no attempt to back up.

Dandontdare has interpreted my position correctly. I think it's largely what Better Together are also saying.

Give me a single example of Salmond slagging off the English?  He's complained about westminster, he's argued about politics, but I am not aware of a single occasion when he, or his "cronies" have slagged off the English.

He speaks in thinly-veiled euphemisms, of which "Westminster" is one.

You do realise how anti-Scottish your sarcasm sounds?

I'll give you that one.

I don't consider myself anti-Scottish, and apologise if I come across that way, but I can't deny being anti-Scottish Nationalist Party.

Salmond's plan is to retain sterling and allow the Bank of England to set interest rates.  Exactly what happens at the moment.  If anything, under a shared sterling Scotland could argue for more control of interest rates.  At teh moment, any Scottish voice or concerns can easily be drowned out.

There is no possibility of a currency union. Every British party has ruled it out and even if one of them backtracked, the English public would never accept it.

Plan B is that Scotland uses Sterling without a currency union, thus ensuring that Scotland's interests would be ignored by the Bank of England.

Suppose for a second that every single politician in Scotland was in agreement on a particular issue.  Even then, the fact that they make up a minority in Westminster would allow the rest of the UK to out vote anything they wanted.
Now, of course you can argue that that is how democracy works.  Scots are in a minority and should expect to be treated as such.  That's exactly what the debate is about.

Scotland has it's own legal system, a different education system, a different health system.  It has its own parliament, its own problems.  The question is, do enough of us consider ourselves sufficiently different to be a separate nation?

Which is completely fair enough, as long as the terms of separation being voted on are clear. My concern is that the SNP seem to have resorted to telling lies about the rest of the UK accepting a post-independence currency union. We absolutely will not do that, and when we don't it's obvious that there's going to be a massive political problem between the two countries.

It's not about hating the English.  It's nothing to do with the English.  It's about Scotland and how it sees itself in the world.  Its about being responsible for ourselves and trying to solve our own problems, whilst trying to maintain a close working relationship with our nearest neighbours and closest allies.

Yeah, and in that spirit, maybe the threat of reneging on Scotland's share of the national debt should be withdrawn?

[The Legendary Shark]

I don't think any of us has a say in how our countries are run - we simply vote periodically for the least bad person to run it. The ones who call the shots are the shareholders (which should be us but somehow isn't).

[Fungus]

if rUK and the BoE don't allow currency union ... they will simply fall back on the ready made excuse of 'English intransigence' to blame for their woes

It's difficult to imagine Scots blaming all our difficulties and defeats on the English for more than 300 years. We're not ones to hang onto old grievances.

Sometimes sarcasm can be a thing of real beauty 

While I'm here, 8-Ball's 'one-eyed Scottish idiot' was another highlight.

[Dandontdare]

Dandontdare has interpreted my position correctly.

Phew! It's always dodgy trying to elucidate on someone else's opinion, glad I got it right!

[Old Tankie]

Absolutely loving that post from Spikes.  He must be a Millwall fan! 

[Richmond Clements]

If we vote yes, at least we'll still have an NHS. http://ht.ly/ASX2W

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

If we vote yes, at least we'll still have an NHS. http://ht.ly/ASX2W

Doesn't that article refer to NHS England, as the Scottish health service is already devolved?

[Richmond Clements]

If we vote yes, at least we'll still have an NHS. http://ht.ly/ASX2W

Doesn't that article refer to NHS England, as the Scottish health service is already devolved?

Yes. And I expect we'll have English health tourists after you allow the Tories to dismantle the NHS...