Okay so instead of my normal blather I'll intro this one with some logistics. Quarter finals. I've matched pairings by taking the highest Seed and putting it against the lowest Seed. One a day (with play-offs running along side) 3 days for these ones. Winners in the semis, losers into a play-off for positions 12-5... you're confused - look I'm running this thing and I'm hanging on by my fingernails too!
Seed 4 Apocalypse War (inc Block Mania) (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/12/epics-6-4-how-much-destruction-can-one.html) Progs 236-270
Vs
Seed 5 Day of Chaos (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/2020/12/epics-6-4-how-much-destruction-can-one.html) Progs 1743-1789
Still with the simple purity of popping the name of the Epic you prefer in a reply to this thread (remember to mark it clearly so I can spot it - bold tags are good) and then say whatever the heck you like to about these two great stories.
We're 3 day votes for these ones so this one will close first thing in the morning Sunday 11th April - winner advance to the semis - loser goes into the 12th - 5th place playoff vote.
All links go through to AlexF's simply brilliant Dredd Epics Ranked (https://dreddepicsranked.blogspot.com/) blog. You may need to scroll to find his write up of a particular story - but I'd suggest just reading the whole thing anyway - it's fantastic stuff.
Baffled by what's going on here - well we have a a thread for that (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47367.0) - though that might leave you more confused than anything.
Rules (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=47367.msg1053448#msg1053448) for what they are worth.
Not sure about anything just ask and I'll blag it.
Mmmmm, decision time what will it be: destruction or destruction, dark sombre or dark sombre. For the total scope of it I will go for Day of Chaos
Apocalypse War
THE definitive epic, pure Carlos thrill power!
Hmmm two stories of destruction of the city, the consequences of the first leading to the second. The second of which wrought even more destruction on the city, the consequences of which were then largely ignored.
Throw in Block Mania and I'm going with the Apocalypse War.
Apocalypse War
SBT
It's Brazil v Germany in the World Cup quarter finals. Madness.
What is wrong with you Colin.
Brazil tho innit.
Quote from: BPP on 08 April, 2021, 08:46:17 AM
What is wrong with you Colin.
I'm the ringleader in a circus of cruelty reaping revenge for the way 'The Cursed Earth' has been treated MAW-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Anyway wouldn't Necropolis Apocalypse war be Brazil vs Germany? And I think we avoid that in the semi's by my best guess anyway.
Careful or we'll accuse you of a FIFA-esque Warm Balls scenario.
Quote from: BPP on 08 April, 2021, 08:55:37 AM
Careful or we'll accuse you of a FIFA-esque Warm Balls scenario.
Leave my warm balls out of this.
Nah its all fixed... or should I say there's no random draws this time. So its highest seed vs lowest seed throughout to try to avoid top tier match-ups too early... and basically failing!
Unquestionably the Apocalypse War. It may be a childish way of looking at stories, but I like it when the 'heroes' win, even if they have to sell their souls to do it. Day of Chaos ends in a victory of sorts - in that MC1 does, technically, survive, but it sure feels like a story about 'heroes' losing to villains. And yes, we can debate all day the merits of calling a fascist a hero, but he's surely better than the Sovs, at least as they are portrayed in the two stories in question.
Apocalypse War, the first Dredd epic that feels like a fully conceived story rather than a series of linked episodes, the first Carlos epic and - coincidentally - the story running when I first became a regular reader of 2000AD.
The hardest one yet, absolutely Love the Apocalypse War but Day Of Chaos is my favourite modern day Dredd story by a mile, so Day Of Chaos it is...
Day Of Chaos.
There would have been no DoC without AW, plus I'm docking a point for the appearance of the Dark Judges, a step too far in my view. For its world-destroying, game-changing, Carlos-returning hugeness, it has to be The Apocalypse War.
doc
Day of Chaos
ta
Apocalypse War
Apocalypse War. DoC was a finely crafted tale and filled with tension, but the ending was abrupt and I hated it. I still do. Moreover, as others have noted, while Apocalypse War had lasting effects that cleverly played out over many months, DoC was largely ignored in the wider continuity. Bar the odd trip into a dead zone, you'd never have known that MC1's population was cut back so much; and I still believe that was a mistake. (The population was sparse enough to begin with, given the size of the city. These days, most of it must be empty.)
Apocalypse War all the way.
Apocalypse War is the GOAT. Carlos genius all the way!
Apocalypse War for me, please.
The Apocalypse War, a stone, cold classic!!! :thumbsup:
Day of Chaos is amazing, but also derivative - it's the Jive Bunny of mega-epics as it mashes up everything in the grab bag and hands Dredd (and the city) a major loss. Not only is it a sequel to The Apocalypse War, but it's also entirely reliant on it as a building block.
My vote goes to the epic against which all other epics are measured: The Apocalypse War.
Apocalypse War.
Apocalypse War
Day of Chaos
Quote from: abelardsnazz on 08 April, 2021, 10:13:30 AM
There would have been no DoC without AW, plus I'm docking a point for the appearance of the Dark Judges, a step too far in my view.
I thought it was a great idea, just wasn't keen on the follow-through.
Still, I gotta vote
Day of Chaos.
Also putting my vote down for Day of Chaos. Genuinely shocking, still a harrowing read.
Has to be Apocalypse War for me. Day of Chaos has literally everything, not least the same sense of completely genuine jeopardy that AW achieved, including an extraordinary ending. But AW has a Sentinoids, Souster and a fun adventure plot that DoC just lacks (and rightly so).
Also, pure Carlos on turbo-boost trumps even Flint, MacNeil and Willsher.
Pzooo! Pzooo!
Apocalypse War - simply because it's the best Dredd for story, art and world building. I've also read it through 20 times. D of C is top work but I've probably only been though it a couple of times. AP is the iconic, archetypal Dredd.
Quote from: Buttonman on 10 April, 2021, 12:06:24 AM
Apocalypse War - simply because it's the best Dredd for story, art and world building. I've also read it through 20 times. D of C is top work but I've probably only been though it a couple of times. AP is the iconic, archetypal Dredd.
You must have started at the end - there's no worldbuilding in The Apocalypse War - plenty of world-destroying though (including one entire alternate Earth).
You know what I mean! The previously one dimensional Sovs are fleshed out and we get a full look at the geo-politics in place with early looks at Texas and Mega City 2 as well as the Judge's capabilities undersea and in space. Also TADS, Stub guns, Stratos-Vs - loads of stuff!
We also see what CitiDef are actually for, apart from going crazy and killing each other, and see the creation of the city we know (knew?), with its rad-zones, ruined blocks, isolated Hab-zones and convenient truncation of the Carolinas, Georgia and Florida.
Also, destroying MC1 was world building in itself as it created a rich vein of stories as the city adapted to cope with the new fallout (pun intended) from the war. I don't think any other epic has had quite such mileage achieved from following up the consequnces of the events.
Very tough pair to vote on.
DoC is tremendous from beginning to end, the pace is thrilling, the politics are handled beautifully and in Wile and Haldane we witness the two most destructive and terrifying enemies MC1 has ever faced.
However, as has been mentioned earlier on the thread, without Apocalypse War there would be no Day of Chaos.
So my vote has to be for Apocalypse War
The post-Apocalypse War era was where I came in. (Among) my first stories were Night of the Rad-Beast, Cry of the Werewolf, The Prankster, The Wreckers, Requiem for a Heavyweight - all tales which had that background.
VOTING CLOSED
Well the first three Quarter Finals put pay to the three highest seeded Epics, those being the top three from AlexF's list. Then the fouth seed came up against the biggest modern day Epic, indeed the biggest Epic of them all on just about all metrics in Day of Chaos. There seemed little chance that we would get a clean sweep... well except for the small fact that 4th Seed was a small matter of the Apocalypse War (inc Block Mania) and of course there no epic as loved as that... well maybe, we'll find out as
Apocalypse Wars (inc Block Mania)
sweeps into the semi-finals and Day of Chaos has to settle for 5th-12th Place Play-off.
Let's be honest, we all know that Apocalypse War is going to win this, hands down. Not just this round either. Easier to acknowledge this right now and focus on who are going to be the runners up.
You have the Grover / Ezquerra team at their absolute pinnacle. More iconic scenes than you can shake a stick at, death and destruction on a massive scale, Dredd's drive and determination to do whatever it takes to protect his city ... and that's just focusing on the main tale.
Expand to include Block Mania and you add in a roster of the greatest Dredd artists of all time. Even more iconic scenes, death and destruction, "I'm with Rowdy Yates ..."
Let's face it, AW / BM is the yard stick against which all other 'epics' are judged. It's legacy has been felt for literally decades. It is a seminal piece of work.
Yip, this is going to be one-horse race
Quote from: broodblik on 11 April, 2021, 10:31:43 AM
Yip, this is going to be one-horse race
No, that was Titan/Enceladus.
Quote from: BPP on 11 April, 2021, 10:53:30 AM
Quote from: broodblik on 11 April, 2021, 10:31:43 AM
Yip, this is going to be one-horse race
No, that was Titan/Enceladus.
Enceladus the prequel to "They shoot talking horses, don't they?"
Quote from: broodblik on 11 April, 2021, 01:58:03 PM
Quote from: BPP on 11 April, 2021, 10:53:30 AM
Quote from: broodblik on 11 April, 2021, 10:31:43 AM
Yip, this is going to be one-horse race
No, that was Titan/Enceladus.
Enceladus the prequel to "They shoot talking horses, don't they?"
Nah, that was The Black Plague.