The Political Thread

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Aha! You've fallen into the trap of trying to make sense of the moral code within (especially US) prisons.

GADZOOKS! I've fallen for one of the classic blunders!

[sheridan]

Aha! You've fallen into the trap of trying to make sense of the moral code within (especially US) prisons.

GADZOOKS! I've fallen for one of the classic blunders!

The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well known is this; never go in against a Sicilian, when death is on the line!

[Tjm86]

It's been a fun week this week hasn't it?  Just when you thought that British politics could not be dragged lower into the gutter, along comes a playground spat that pretty much everyone saw Cumming (sic) a mile away.  After everything that we've learnt this year about the destruction of political integrity, it turns out that we weren't even close to the mark.

What is really terrifying though is that roughly 30% of people surveyed still think Johnson and the tories have integrity.   

[Funt Solo]

It wouldn't be the good old US of A if it weren't bat-shit crazy:

West Virginia to give young people $100 bond to get vaccine

Miami school bars vaccinated teachers from seeing students

(*I kept thinking the second headline had to be a typo but nope.)

[Funt Solo]

Keir Starmer says he's "a man"

Painfully awkward attempt at emoting starts at 1:36. It's like when Gordon Brown would try to smile.

[CalHab]

The Scottish Parliament elections are on Thursday. Up here we've been treated to various politicians tearing lumps out of each other, hoping to claw their way to the vaunted position of....... leader of the opposition.

The SNP are polling so high that there is no realistic possibility of anyone overtaking them. Despite Sturgeon's competency with the pandemic, the SNP have been in government for so long that they are showing real signs of malaise. Key targets are missed. Factions within the party are openly warring. Ministers with dubious compentency remain in post because they aren't challenged. The kind of thing that a good, strong opposition would haul them over the coals for.

It's a bit similar to the situation in Westminster, but without the open racism, contempt for the poor, corruption, flagrant incompetence, cronyism.....etc.

[CalHab]

If I was the leader of Scottish Labour (who would want to be?), I would agree to an independence referendum subject to maximum devolution being on the ticket. I'm not convinced it would win, or that it would or could be delivered, but that would be the way of maximising wins from soft unionists and soft nationalists. You could form a strong opposition on that basis.

In reality, people like Ian Murray are pushing them down a hardline unionist path which leads to increasing irrelevance. The Tories have that vote and it isn't shifting (and is ageing).

[IndigoPrime]

The thing that gets me in Scotland is that the SNP is a broadly progressive party (with some dangerous blind spots from individuals on certain issues, like trans) but is approaching indy in a manner far too similar to UKIP. As someone who's English and hoping one day to be Irish (because fuck England), I don't have any real opinion about which way Scotland should head. I'm a bit torn, but have realised at every point that my own thinking was swayed too heavily by what I would like and not necessarily what would be best for Scotland.

But I do long on, concerned, when I see people arguing that a country split right down the middle should perform a major and irreversible political change beyond anything tried in modern history, with scant regard for economic and geopolitical consequences. Because that's Brexit all over again. (If there was a super-majority behind indy and/or the UK government wasn't so fucking stupid about things like the single market, that might be different.)

That all said, I do hope the Tories and Labour get a kicking on Thursday, and also that the Greens get some seats.

[Professor Bear]

Keir Starmer says he's "a man"

You've taken this out of context - the full quote is "I'm a man who can't stand injustice."
Which is... an interesting statement from someone who's personally overseen a CPS drive to prevent the trials of dozens of rapists, quashed investigations into human rights abuses in for-profit detention centers, conducted what seems to some objective observers to be a targeted campaign of suspension and harassment of left-wing Jews in the Labour Party, and settled out of court for a case that lawyers had said could easily be won.  At the very least I'm thinking Sir Keith isn't much of a lawyer.

[Funt Solo]

I don't follow that Scottish independence is much like Brexit. Brexit's narrative has always been negative and based on isolationism - and a big lie (that Europe dominated). Scottish independence is only really a viable political aspect of modern politics because of the truth that the Scottish electorate is largely left out in the cold from Westminster, and (rather than isolationism) the first thing on the agenda would be re-joining Europe.

The ideas just come from very different places. Scotland didn't want Brexit - but it jolly well got it because England voted for it. That really is the shitty end of the stick, and Scotland's been forced to hold it for far too long. Unless I'm wrong and the Tories have been bending over backwards to accommodate the political will of Scotland ... *tumbleweeds* ...

[milstar]

I wonder if the potential referendum comes to light and the results again remain in favor of Scots staying in UK, would a subsequent referendum be available, until Scots finally walk scot free (pun intended). It was a tight vote, for sure, but not tighter than Brexit.
Speaking of Brexit, or better to say, criticism of it, I hate it when people acted as if it something apocalyptical, in that UK would be sealed off, becoming like N. Korea. I don't think that people that voted for Brexit even had that in mind for UK. Nevertheless, majority voted for it, it won't be democracy if we test it every few years continually. Democracy isn't perfect and doesn't always work, but it's the only (most) trustful system we have today.

[CalHab]

Well, without wanting to revisit Brexit, most leave campaigners made the case for a "soft" exit, retaining the single market. That was ditched by the Tories early on as it didn't appease their (far) right wing. I'd dispute that democracy was well served there. It certainly wasn't from a Scottish perspective.

As for the "neverendum" argument, in Quebec the second referendum brought it to a close. This is a point moderate Scottish nationalists are keenly aware of.

[Jim_Campbell]

Speaking of Brexit, or better to say, criticism of it, I hate it when people acted as if it something apocalyptical, in that UK would be sealed off, becoming like N. Korea.

Nobody. Nobody on the Remain side said that. Unlike the Leave side, which repeatedly said that we would retain all the benefits of Freedom of Movement, the Single Market and the Customs Union... plus that £350M/wk for the NHS, literally none of which turned out to be true.

The Remain side did say that businesses would leave the UK for the EU to retain those benefits if we didn't keep them, which has happened and is continuing to happen, that Brexit wouldn't do a damn thing to help the UK fishing industry, would be a disaster for the creative arts, that loss of freedom of movement would impact EU-resident expats, that there would be no £350M/wk for the NHS, and that there was no form of hard Brexit that was compatible with maintaining the Good Friday Agreement. All of which did turn out to be true.

[milstar]

Speaking of Brexit, or better to say, criticism of it, I hate it when people acted as if it something apocalyptical, in that UK would be sealed off, becoming like N. Korea.

Nobody. Nobody on the Remain side said that. Unlike the Leave side, which repeatedly said that we would retain all the benefits of Freedom of Movement, the Single Market and the Customs Union... plus that £350M/wk for the NHS, literally none of which turned out to be true.

The Remain side did say that businesses would leave the UK for the EU to retain those benefits if we didn't keep them, which has happened and is continuing to happen, that Brexit wouldn't do a damn thing to help the UK fishing industry, would be a disaster for the creative arts, that loss of freedom of movement would impact EU-resident expats, that there would be no £350M/wk for the NHS, and that there was no form of hard Brexit that was compatible with maintaining the Good Friday Agreement. All of which did turn out to be true.

Don't know who the nobody is, as I firmly remember people bleating online:"omg, we'll be sealed off the Europe, with the limit of movement to other countries severely imposed, that Tories would bend the country to their will" and so on.
As for the economical consequences of Brexit, I think it'll have to yet to (really) kick in.

[Jim_Campbell]

Don't know who the nobody is, as I firmly remember people bleating online:"omg, we'll be sealed off the Europe, with the limit of movement to other countries severely imposed, that Tories would bend the country to their will" and so on.

That's hardly "North Korea" is it? And UK expats (immigrants to everyone else) are already complaining about loss of their residential status in EU countries and having to come back to the UK, UK travellers have complained about having to use the non-EU queues at immigration — it's only the fact that the pandemic has all but stopped international travel that's kept this from being a major issue on the front pages of the tabloid (although obviously framed as a nefarious EU plot to victimise the UK).

It's only been five months since Brexit actually happened, and the Tories are already floating ideas of employment "reform" (transl: stripping all the EU employment rights out of UK legislation), ending judicial review, bringing back the death penalty. Wait until the pandemic is behind us (whenever the fuck that will be) and see what further legislative gems they have in store...