The Political Thread

[SuperSurfer]

Thats the key difference. But still, why does anyone care?

It's one thing to be aware of cultural and political sensitivities when abroad. But taking the piss over such a hot issue (in which hundreds lost their lives) was only going to invite such an over the top reaction.

[Hawkmumbler]

Fair point.

[The Legendary Shark]

Of greater import to me is PM Rabid Maccaroon promising to "opt out" of the European Convention of Human Rights if he gets re-elected.
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That convention states that everyone is entitled to a home and to uninterrupted enjoyment of their possessions. Both of these have been not only denied to me but actively ripped from me so it seems that local governments like my council have already opted out.
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Dark times.
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This Top Gear buffoonery is nothing but a shit-stirring distraction.

[TordelBack]

This Top Gear buffoonery

I had a long post ready to go on the subject, but Shark puts his pectoral fin on it there.  It's just the rudeness of the carefully-constructed buffoon.

The Human Rights thing is awful, listening to Any Questions yesterday I could hardly believe what I was hearing: a denial of common humanity in favour of the self-evidently-superior condition of being British (a far less clear category), and by dismissing the whole principle of universality undermining the legitimacy of one of the great conceptual leaps of the past two centuries.

[The Legendary Shark]

The fact is that Cameron is technically correct to want to regard the ECHR as "purely advisory". I think I've explained here before that ALL legislation is technically advisory and that there is a huge difference between legislative and common law.
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So let David Cameron opt out - that doesn't mean I have to. What it does mean is that it's okay for the British to opt out of any legislation they wish such as council tax, bedroom charge, tv license, fishing license, driving license etc. This could be a great, if inadvertent, leap forward in the cause of personal freedoms and responsibilities.
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Then again, it might just turn into another clusterfuck.
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[Professor Bear]

I find it increasingly harder to be appalled at the actions of someone who's still using their own dead child as a political football.  Still, it's good to have this subhuman slime in charge, as a reminder for the next time someone's in a voting booth thinking "well, they can't be any worse than Labour."

[Old Tankie]

Of greater import to me is PM Rabid Maccaroon promising to "opt out" of the European Convention of Human Rights if he gets re-elected.
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That convention states that everyone is entitled to a home and to uninterrupted enjoyment of their possessions. Both of these have been not only denied to me but actively ripped from me so it seems that local governments like my council have already opted out.
.
Dark times.
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This Top Gear buffoonery is nothing but a shit-stirring distraction.

Well, if being in the convention didn't stop you from being thrown out of your house, Sharkey, what's the point of being in it?!

[GordonR]

Fuckwitted logic in action:

We have laws against murder, but people still get murdered, so what's the point in having laws against murder.

[Old Tankie]

"Fuckwitted logic in action:"

Twisting someone's words and behaving like the prick you are.

[Old Tankie]

Ooops, forgot to put the smiley. 

[The Legendary Shark]

Fuckwitted logic in action:
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Murder is only wrong because it is against the law, therefore only the existence of laws prevents murder. As murder is clearly wrong the law must be right - and if one law is right, all laws must be right.
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[Molch-R]

I thought I warned everyone about personal attacks not that long ago.

Tankie, please consider yourself on a warning. The moderators are under instruction to ban you for a period of their choosing if you take another shot like that.

[Old Tankie]

Fair enough, I take on board what you say, completely.  I like being on this forum and don't want to be banned, so there'll be no more shots from me.

As a learning tool, I have re-read GordonR's post, (which I was responding to) and realise that there is a way of profoundly insulting people (i.e. me) that doesn't get you pulled up. 

[The Legendary Shark]

I'm with Old Tankie Block. In my view, O.T.'s post was not so much an attack as an observation.
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And to answer your question, Tankie, technically it makes no difference whether the UK's government is in or out of th ECHR. As I said, all legislation is technically advisory, meaning that anyone can either accept or reject it under their own authority.
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And before the usual fuckwittery raises its empty head, everyone is free to disobey or ignore any law they choose but this does also mean that one must take responsibility for one's own actions. To rely entirely upon legislation to regulate morality and mete out the appropriate punishments undermines and marginalises personal responsibility, putting the onus on "the authorities" to catch and punish us rather than on our own abilities to act properly in society.
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Virtually everyone knows right from wrong from a very early age but, as we grow older, we tend to ignore our own judicial instincts more and more, reasoning that what we think doesn't or even can't matter because other very clever people have already sorted all the laws out and written them down.
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A further aspect of this field is that, even though individuals are free to treat legislation as advisory the government is not. Only the government, as author and enforcer, is bound by legislation. Therefore the government can't force us to comply with legislation but we can force the government to comply.
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And, to forestall even further fuckwittery, actual crimes like murder, rape, assault and theft come under the control of common law first and legislative law second. Even if legislation emerged legalising murder, murder would still be contrary to common law and still subject to whichever punishment society deems appropriate.
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Take road traffic legislation and such - do we drive on the left and stop at red lights because legislation tells us to or because that's the common law, the common practice, of drivers in this country? The foundation of driving on the left and stopping at red lights is the common law, legislation merely codifies and attempts to reinforce the practices and customs already in place.
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In recent times, the bulk of legislative law seems to have been hi-jacked in the pursuit of raising revenue for the state in an attempt to pay off the unpayoffable government debt.
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[Old Tankie]

Thanks for your support, Sharkie.