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The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread

Started by Colin YNWA, 22 May, 2016, 02:30:29 PM

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Colin YNWA

Quote from: sheridan on 10 August, 2018, 05:33:41 PM
Garth Ennis has said similar (in line with common wisdom, he did some good stuff, some intermediate stuff and some mediocre stuff).

One thing I'm noticing more about Ennis this time is he seems interested in creating tough, credible villians to fight Dredd, then he cranks a story around them as best he can. We're just had Jonni Kissyface introduced and in Prog 832 we get the hard Scotsman with his killer bagpipes*. Previously we've had Musical Killer Chappie, The Raider, that pair of hitmen whose names I can't remembr... that's just the ones that spring to mind. The trouble is this leads to quite dull repeatative stories that ultimately rung hollow.

Introduce the baddie by having them do something hard and killie. Set up their motive with flashback. Have their motive interconnect with Dredd. Have  them fight Dredd. Dredd, though knackered, wins. Rinse wash repeat. Its just not a great method for coming up with Dredds and its something Ennis seems to fall back on quite a lot.

Anyway if you've got this far I have a question for you. I've just read Prog 833 and next Prog is the Firekind episode mix up (I think - his filter mask has just broken). Now this re-read I'm being good and reading things as they appear in the Prog so my question to you is.

Should I read Firekind as printed, error and all?

The purist in me wants to BUT I adore Firekind and who knows when I'll read it again, so why read it all wonky knowing its not going to take much effort to read it properly like. I'm conflicted...

broodblik

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 August, 2018, 07:43:16 AM
One thing I'm noticing more about Ennis this time is he seems interested in creating tough, credible villians to fight Dredd, then he cranks a story around them as best he can. We're just had Jonni Kissyface introduced and in Prog 832 we get the hard Scotsman with his killer bagpipes*. Previously we've had Musical Killer Chappie, The Raider, that pair of hitmen whose names I can't remembr... that's just the ones that spring to mind. The trouble is this leads to quite dull repeatative stories that ultimately rung hollow.

Writing Dredd continuously week-in and week-out must surely be a challenge. John Wagner for me is the only person that achieved this so far. We now have a few writers that contribute to Dredd and for me as reader this setup works.
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

Funt Solo

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 August, 2018, 07:43:16 AM
Should I read Firekind as printed, error and all?

No.  The writer wanted you to read it in the order they wrote it.   

++ A-Z ++  coma ++

TordelBack

Quote from: Funt Solo on 11 August, 2018, 04:14:52 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 August, 2018, 07:43:16 AM
Should I read Firekind as printed, error and all?

No.  The writer wanted you to read it in the order they wrote it.   

Yes. Because you're not reading a collected edition if Firekind,  you're reading the prog-as-she-was-published: warts and all. Appreciating the tides and calamities that pull the good ship thrillpower hither and thither, like wily Odysseus storm-driven across the wine dark sea, it's the journey that makes the tale.

Fungus

Quote from: Funt Solo on 11 August, 2018, 04:14:52 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 August, 2018, 07:43:16 AM
Should I read Firekind as printed, error and all?

No.  The writer wanted you to read it in the order they wrote it.   

Put like that, have to agree.

Colin YNWA

Look I'm off on me holidays for a week can you chaps kindly reach a consenus by the time I get back. Otherwise we'll have to rely on me coming to a sensible decision we really don't want that to happen do we...

Funt Solo

Quote from: TordelBack on 11 August, 2018, 04:42:25 PM
it's the journey that makes the tale.

Tordelback's impassioned and poetic argument has swung my vote.  You must read it in the order originally published in order to maintain your credibility.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Colin YNWA

Quote from: Funt Solo on 12 August, 2018, 05:43:46 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 11 August, 2018, 04:42:25 PM
it's the journey that makes the tale.

Tordelback's impassioned and poetic argument has swung my vote.  You must read it in the order originally published in order to maintain your credibility.

That would suggest I have any credibility to start with. Which frankly is a bit of a stretch!

Anyway nothing quite like full internet access when in the lakes to remind you camping is a very different beast than it was in 1993!

Tjm86

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 12 August, 2018, 06:09:06 PM
Anyway nothing quite like full internet access when in the lakes to remind you camping is a very different beast than it was in 1993!

If you've found somewhere to camp in the lakes with full internet access then you are definitely proving your case on the credibility issue.

Magnetica

Do both. Publication order first to maintain that Prog slog feel. Then the intended order to get the story as it was meant to be.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: Magnetica on 13 August, 2018, 05:54:49 PM
Do both. Publication order first to maintain that Prog slog feel. Then the intended order to get the story as it was meant to be.

Well heart of hearts I always figured I'd end up doing that! It is the kinda thrill once you finish you just want to start again.

Colin YNWA

Prog 834 (and 5)

So I went with the purist reading - though suspect I'll go back when the year is out - and read like that, the missing episode in Firekind, in this context its just irritating, but also a tribute to John Smith.

I know what happens, that Larsen is saved from his hallucinations by the tribe... though the specifics escape me... so it just reads like an annoying gap this time. At the time I remember being baffled, but with no explanation I just figured it was all me being dense. Mind this is helped by Smith's craft. Even with an episode removed the fact that Smith knows how to write episodically means you move on from the missing moment and are fully engaged with the episode in front of you and the glory and horrors it brings. The story has shifted into its second phase and you just move with it so engaging is the story.

Just class.

And the level of skills and ability on display is all the more apparent by what else is in the Prog. Ennis provides a substandard Dredd (glorious Mike Austin art its redemning feature) and the genuinely dreadful cliched and so of its time... in the bad way of the worst early 90s comics ... Inferno starts. Millar just seems to think that cranking it all up to 11 is enough.

To be fair it does a lot of things a good first episode should, it sets the scene really well, it introduces you to a host of characters both heroes... well kinda... and villian, so villianous he can make the other villians the heroes. He builds tension and motive... well again kinda. All in just 6 pages, in so many ways its a great first part. Alas its all so crass and childish all the craft in the world can't save it. Bloody awful.

The reason I've dragged 835 into this is that Millar writes the Dredd here too. Demonstrating that all those years ago he could catch onto the world of Dredd perfectly, while completely missing the point. I mean the memories sucked from the poor and sold to the rich and indulged is a pretty good Mega City One story. He then shows how much he wasn't ready to be a comics pro as he demonstrates in one wise cracking, leg blasting page, now little he understands Dredd and how cranking it up to 11 again completely misfires. The trouble is at this time (and some time to come as I recall) taking a good idea and cranking it up to 11 (or more) is all Millar has and he crushes the ideas.

835 is such a fascinating Prog and perfectly encapsulates this time. One half over the top, misjudged (pun intended) trash sits next to fantastic, thoughtful and genuinely compelling thrills, in the other half in the Firekind and Kano... poor old Armoured Gideon playing the part of pretty damned good thrill, but floating intriguingly inbetween these two extremes like a pivot!

I suspect these extremes will leave me with much to say here at least!

Greg M.

Purgatory is better than Inferno, because it doesn't feature Judge Dredd, and therefore he can't be written out of character.

I've got a guilty soft spot for Purgatory - it is crass, puerile, derivative and unpleasant, but it succeeds in its aims and, like all of Millar's work, tells a story well. (The story may be stupid, or riddled with lapses in logic, but he tells it well.)

Colin YNWA

Quote from: Greg M. on 19 August, 2018, 09:44:44 AM
Purgatory is better than Inferno, because it doesn't feature Judge Dredd, and therefore he can't be written out of character.

I've got a guilty soft spot for Purgatory - it is crass, puerile, derivative and unpleasant, but it succeeds in its aims and, like all of Millar's work, tells a story well. (The story may be stupid, or riddled with lapses in logic, but he tells it well.)

Whoops I  of course meant its Purgatory starting not Inferno... we'll have a lot else to talk about when we get to Inferno!

TordelBack

Quote from: Greg M. on 19 August, 2018, 09:44:44 AM
I've got a guilty soft spot for Purgatory - it is crass, puerile, derivative and unpleasant, but it succeeds in its aims and, like all of Millar's work, tells a story well. (The story may be stupid, or riddled with lapses in logic, but he tells it well.)

Me too. Pure nonsense, but gorgeous to look at, and well, fun - if you can accept the character named 'Grice' (who coincidentally bears a passing resemblance to former Judge Grice), it goes down fairly easy.  Inferno, because it mistreats so many characters and elements, is harder to swallow, despite being equally lovely to look at.