Prog 1998 - A Dredd End

[PsychoGoatee]

You using (the Apocalypse War) as an example of something that is not a spectacular climax ... maybe we're using an overly narrow definition of a traditionally satisfying climax

I didn't argue the end of The Apocalypse War isn't satisfying [1], just that this act of revenge is much less spectacular than this. A Hollywood script doctor would have pinched that off before the three weeks of torture then surrender due to off-screen action.

How do you explain Dirty Harry? Not every thrilling Hollywood hit movie ends with a giant explosion. 

[Richard]

How does Dan Dare Corp still own Doomlord?!

[Richard]

Never mind, just saw it on the other thread.

[JOE SOAP]

How do you explain Dirty Harry? Not every thrilling Hollywood hit movie ends with a giant explosion. 

That was the seventies when Hollywood was its most un-Hollywood.

[PsychoGoatee]

How do you explain Dirty Harry? Not every thrilling Hollywood hit movie ends with a giant explosion. 

That was the seventies when Hollywood was its most un-Hollywood.

To be fair, Hollywood was still doing some badass stuff when Apocalypse War was written. 

[Frank]

That was the seventies when Hollywood was its most un-Hollywood.

... and Dirty Harry isn't a huge war movie where Russia invades America and an entire planet is blown up.

Too keep the seventies theme going, Dredd capping Kazan is the equivalent of a Transformers movie ending with a scene where Megatron invites Shia LaBeouf's character to a sit down at a small neighbourhood cafe then executes him with a .45 Starscream taped to the toilet cistern.

Even Coppola wasn't crazy enough to make that scene the ending of his film*.



* Giant's famously anti-climactic death should have been a scene where he gets a phone call from his sister about her abusive husband then dies in an ambush at the Jersey turnpike.

[PsychoGoatee]

I mean it's all good, but this metaphor keeps morphing and sliding around.  You simply said Apocalypse War was an example of something that wasn't a spectacular climax, and I pointed out simply that I disagree and have a different definition of what qualifies as the thingy we're talking about overall. With respect to Mr. Lebeouf.

Kind of a complex subject involving various subtleties and personal interpretations.

[JOE SOAP]

How do you explain Dirty Harry? Not every thrilling Hollywood hit movie ends with a giant explosion. 

That was the seventies when Hollywood was its most un-Hollywood.

To be fair, Hollywood was still doing some badass stuff when Apocalypse War was written. 

I think the point being made is about matters of scale and brevity. No standard Hollywood film - not a war film or even Dirty Harry* - would have the "hero" surrender after climatically defeating the enemy with such a crushing, spectacular Special FX blow then continue with several smaller scenes of warfare, torture and dialogue, before setting up another more intimate ending where the antagonists give-in and request that Dredd execute their boss. All that would be cut-out/tightened-up to one, maybe two scenes at most. It might be spectacular in one sense but not in the Hollywood sense.


*In a single scene Harry kills Scorpio (defeats the enemy) and the film basically ends in the space of a minute.

[PsychoGoatee]

I'm not saying John Wagner writes like a standard Hollywood movie, needless to say. He's a very unique voice. And much of Judge Dredd is better than the majority of films in existence of course. Just the original context here was about finales that disappoint in some way or to some standard, and was compared to Stephen King jokingly etc, so just chiming in that I thought that finale is very climactic and epic in it's own way.

[JOE SOAP]

I'm not saying John Wagner writes like a standard Hollywood movie, needless to say. He's a very unique voice. And much of Judge Dredd is better than the majority of films in existence of course. Just the original context here was about finales that disappoint in some way or to some standard, and was compared to Stephen King jokingly etc, so just chiming in that I thought that finale is very climactic and epic in it's own way.

Yeah, I get that; I think the peeps here were expressing the opposite of thinking the finales are disappointing or not dramatic and more that the endings don't busy themselves with too much spectacle - they're under-stated rather than anti-climactic.

In The Apocalypse War Kazan is still the figurehead of the enemy so plugging him and his madness with the aid of his minions still works dramatically after nuking East-Meg 1 (which is no more an action than pressing a button) - but executing the leader is less a moment of eye-catching spectacle than roasting a city. If after that it had ended in a 5 page gunfight with a bunch of nobodies, it would be anticlimactic.

[Frank]

the original context here was about finales that disappoint in some way or to some standard

No buddy, it was endings that didn't fit conventional expectations of spectacle or high drama. In that context, the matter of fact endings to The Apocalypse War and Ladykiller are very much of a piece:


Bolt-01 writes: Images removed as I couldn't sort spoilers-

[PsychoGoatee]

I guess you're just not getting what I'm saying, or we're on different wavelengths on this particular little issue. I get what you're going for, and just expressed how I disagree and have a different take on what qualifies as a "insert adjective here" ending. There's nothing to argue about, really.

[PsychoGoatee]

Also as mentioned earlier, I haven't read this prog. I don't mind spoilers (spoiler discussion), but that actual page probably shouldn't be in this topic.

[Magnetica]

With great timing I have just finished reading the Mega Collection Life and Crimes of PJ Maybe and what a cracking volume it is - just confirms PJ as my favorite Dredd villain of all time. Indeed I would go as far as to say best 2000AD villain of all time. And possibly best set of Dredd stories of all time. 

[sheridan]

Serious question.
I post the covers on ECBT2000AD on Saturdays. Would peeps prefer I delayed them till Sundays?

2000AD do post the covers on Facebook and Twitter on a friday and that's where I get the images from.

I'm happy to see the covers on ECBT2000AD and on the prog thread here.  In fact, not getting the prog until Wednesday I come to these threads just to get a preview of the cover (usually while trying to avoid reading any of the actual thread itself).


Happy birthday, by the way!