The Political Thread

[JayzusB.Christ]

The difference between walking down the street and being in court is pretty evident... so why even make the comparison.

While I'm with Sharky on the unconscious pocketing of my Swiss Army knife, you're absolutely right.  I once got to the airport customs and remembered about it - had to pay for it to be put into storage.  Proper order, of course; it was a silly mistake on my part.

[Goaty]

England politic people are the joke. 

[Hawkmumbler]

Leave voter: I'm so glad we got rid of those unelected EU reps!

'Same person does nothing as Theresa May becomes PM without an election'

Thanks, Brexit. Thats pretty much decided i'm not staying in the UK as long as I can help it.

[Theblazeuk]

Well I thought all the outcry was a bit overblown when Gordon Brown took over from Blair. But then the circumstances were a bit different... And before anyone makes any obvious but kind of empty comparisons between one oily destructive git and another, compare and contrast Spameron's exit with Bliar: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6243558.stm

[JamesC]

Plus, back in the Blair/Brown days voters in previous elections had long known that Brown was waiting around for his turn at the leadership.

[IndigoPrime]

I have no major issue with May being Prime Minster now, in the sense of the way British democracy works. But Leave people are doing some pretty major mental gymnastics in claiming that's OK (on the basis of how the UK works) but suggesting the Commons vote on Article 50 isn't (because DEMOCRACY). It's one or the other.

[JayzusB.Christ]

It still baffles me that there isn't more outcry at all the prominent Leave campaigners / instigators fucking off and leaving it to the Remainers to clean up the mess.  Well, apart from Gove, but I think having that insipid, Pob-faced little fuck as unelected PM could just be the straw that broke the camel's back. 

[The Legendary Shark]

The difference between walking down the street and being in court is pretty evident... so why even make the comparison.

Really? Both public spaces, both populated by human beings, both policed, both ostensibly paid for by taxes, both under the same rule of law (allegedly), both governed by the same parliament, both subject to the same monarch, both expecting decent levels of behaviour.

The only difference is that the court is presided over by a servant of the ruling class (in judges/ magistrates). The penknife wasn't taken away from me because of its (minimal) threat - I could have done far more damage without it if I'd been so inclined - but to put me in my place.

[IndigoPrime]

It still baffles me that there isn't more outcry at all the prominent Leave campaigners / instigators fucking off and leaving it to the Remainers to clean up the mess. 

I've seen plenty whining about May in that regard (and, bafflingly, suggesting she's too liberal), but it's unlikely she won't fire the UK into the heart of the sun. She was Remain in the same way Johnson was Leave.

[M.I.K.]

The only difference is that the court is presided over by a servant of the ruling class (in judges/ magistrates). The penknife wasn't taken away from me because of its (minimal) threat - I could have done far more damage without it if I'd been so inclined - but to put me in my place.

No, the difference is that people with unpredictably violent tendencies and reason to be agitated are far more likely to be present in a courtroom. People try to smuggle actual weapons into court all the time. The figures are quite mental.

[The Legendary Shark]

Sorry, M.I.K., I don't buy that. We're talking about a pen knife, not smuggling in an actual weapon. And people with "unpredictably violent tendencies" are just as likely to become agitated in the high street as in a court - which I presume is one reason why these unpredictably violent people end up in court in the first place.

In fact, my direct experience is that police officers actively encourage retaliation against them. When I was arrested (in my own home, after the police had smashed my door and windows in because I refused to acknowledge, politely and without harsh language, the invalid "warrant" of a council official), it was absolutely clear to me that their demeanour and actions positively invited physical retaliation. When I refused to rise to this, they manufactured an assault charge against me inside Skelmersdale police station. Of the six or so officers involved, who were attempting to physically force me to give fingerprints and such, only two turned up in court to give evidence. Their testimonies did not match and the cctv footage, which would have shown exactly what did and did not happen, had been lost due to a "corrupted hard drive." I was, despite all this, found guilty by three magistrates (one of whom was on his last day before retiring from the bench, one who couldn't look me in the eye and one who seemed to want to be somewhere - anywhere - else) of assaulting a police officer - and never charged with the alleged crime for which I was initially arrested.

I don't doubt that many people end up being portrayed as violent under such provocation. I would not be surprised, also, if having my penknife confiscated was added to the "attempt to smuggle a weapon into court" figures.

No, in my opinion we've all been brainwashed into regarding court rooms and court officials as being somehow above the common, public realm and therefore above normal forms of decent behaviour. To me our attitude towards them is on a level with our ancestors' attitude to churches and church officials. No matter what the church did or said, the common people bowed to it because it claimed to represent the Will of God. One modern equivalent is the court, which claims to represent the Will of Law.

[JayzusB.Christ]

I don't doubt that many people end up being portrayed as violent under such provocation.

It's my annual Agree-With-The-Shark Day.  You're right - I've heard of many cases of this that don't make the papers.*

The copper who is dealing with my property scam case right now is an absolute gentleman to me (if not particularly efficient, taking a statement three months after the crime and losing all the evidence I gave him), but I accidentally ended up on his Google page while emailing him - he posts videos of what looks to me like excessive police brutality, and comments on them with barely-disguised glee.

That said, I'm being very, very polite and pleasant to the chap - you never know, I might get my money back.

*I realise not all of them are to be believed, but some seem fairly reliable.

[Theblazeuk]

Both public spaces, both populated by human beings, both policed, both ostensibly paid for by taxes, both under the same rule of law (allegedly), both governed by the same parliament, both subject to the same monarch, both expecting decent levels of behaviour.

You've described everywhere in the United Kingdom...The penknife wasn't taken away to put you in your place Sharky, no one in that courtroom had a knife on them either and no one would have been allowed to. A high court judge can't take a knife into the courtroom. He can of course not be searched but that's a different matter. The logic behind this security measure is pretty self-evident. And honestly, the truth is you could not do more damage without it - a penknife in the eye or the throat is a better weapon than your hands will ever manage in a comparable amount of time. Unless you're Death Fist.


Of course, your 'place' was as an unwilling participant in the conventions of a society you never signed a contract with. So in that sense I suppose it did. And in any case this is completely incidental to the rest of the bollocks, which I agree is utter **** and a cravenly miscarriage of evidence and prosecution which is all too common. And yes I entirely agree their attitude encourages provocation to a great extent, I've met many officers with the inbred bouncer mentality.

Anywho! PM May will know how to deal with you.

[Banners]

I predict Angela Eagle will abandon her Labour leadership challenge in the next few days.

[Theblazeuk]

With a hot pink banner, banners.