The Political Thread

[Steve Green]

Meanwhile, in politics, Theresa May has caused another currency nosedive by indicating that the UK is likely to exit the single market.

Personally, I welcome this. The fiction that we're going to get some kind of favourable deal - or any kind of deal - has been underpinning Brexiteer claptrap for years. It's about time this was exploded.

The sooner the reality of EU exit is laid bare, the sooner we can have a second referendum and end this nightmare.

I really doubt that will happen.

[Steve Green]

And Martin McGuinness has resigned.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38561507

[Steven Denton]

Meanwhile, in politics, Theresa May has caused another currency nosedive by indicating that the UK is likely to exit the single market.

Personally, I welcome this. The fiction that we're going to get some kind of favourable deal - or any kind of deal - has been underpinning Brexiteer claptrap for years. It's about time this was exploded.

The sooner the reality of EU exit is laid bare, the sooner we can have a second referendum and end this nightmare.

Doesn't matter. For it make any difference: people would have had of voted for economic reasons, they would have to accept they were wrong, and they would have to change their mind.

Check any comments thread on any news story and you'll find any number of Brexit supporters dismissing any and all bad news as 're-moaner' whinging.   

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

It's either a second referendum on leaving the EU now, or a first referendum on joining the EU later.

At some point enough of the outers will die off that the demographic balance will swing back the right way.

[IndigoPrime]

The financial repercussions will be very slow – and that's the problem. Prices are rising now, but it's not impacted that heavily on people. It's when Brexit causes prices to spike after we actually leave that at least some people will – privately at least – be thinking: well, shit.

From what I see now, there's basically no chance of anything sensible coming out of this. We'll be in for a hard Brexit and probably 10+ years of hardship, for no obvious benefits. And I still don't even know whether I'll be able to stay in the country of my birth (and my kid's birth) with my own family, so that's just fucking peachy.

As for rejoining the EU, I can't see that happening. We wouldn't get the deal we have now – we'd have to join with the Euro and Schengen and that would swing a lot of people in the direction of nope. What so many people fail to realise is we have a pretty good deal now. Many EU institutions are based on British law. We got a number of major opt-outs. And yet when push comes to shove, we throw it all back in the EU's face, so we can strive for a better time that never existed, ignoring the UK's post-Empire position as the poor man of Europe before joining the EU and becoming far more prosperous.

[Old Tankie]

The next referendum will be the general election.

[Pyroxian]

The financial repercussions will be very slow – and that's the problem. Prices are rising now, but it's not impacted that heavily on people. It's when Brexit causes prices to spike after we actually leave that at least some people will – privately at least – be thinking: well, shit.

Lego's gone up 10% already

[Hawkmumbler]

Am I unpatatriotic for sincerely thinking a second Scottish independence referendum is well in order?

[Steven Denton]

Am I unpatatriotic for sincerely thinking a second Scottish independence referendum is well in order?

I think staying in Europe was a big part of the better together message. (as was further devolution)

Independence wouldn't guarantee Scotland's European Union membership, but remaining in the union looks a lot like it would guarantee not being part of the EU.

[TordelBack]

"...when absolute numbers of violent deaths are viewed as a proportion of world population."

Invented?

Just to clarify, lest I be thought an unfeeling monster,  by what metric would you suggest we evaluate the claim that the 20th C was the "bloodiest" etc. century?  A smaller proportion of people died a violent death in the 20th C than in about half the centuries of the last 1000 years, whereas hugely greater number (in absolute and proportional terms) enjoyed the benefits previously listed.

Awful, awful things happened, but in aggregate things got better. Would you rather have been born of random gender, race, orientation ,religion and locale in 1300, 1500, 1700 or 1900 - or 2000 for that matter? I think the answer is obvious, maybe you don't.

[The Legendary Shark]

I don't think you're an unfeeling monster, Tordels, far from it.

In the interests of board harmony, I'm dropping this subject. I don't enjoy seeing things the way I see them and it's apparent that few people, if any, are interested in my perspective - which is all it is; my perspective.

Read into this what you will but I'm drawing a line under it.

[IndigoPrime]

Am I unpatatriotic for sincerely thinking a second Scottish independence referendum is well in order?

Nope. Westminster seems to be doing its level best to say it'll fashion a Brexit for everyone and then telling Scotland to get fucked. So indie 2 will happen, but most likely not until the UK's left the EU. (Scotland would, I suspect, get into EFTA reasonably easily. The EU would be somewhat tougher.)

As for prices, I hadn't noticed that about Lego. Wish I'd bought the Brick Bank in JL at £110 now. Bah.

[Jim_Campbell]

Read into this what you will but I'm drawing a line under it.

"I'm definitively wrong and have made myself look like a total c*nt in the process of trying to deny this, so I'd like to talk about something else now."

YMMV.

Not even the first time this has happened, but a new low in terms of mis-characterising those who disagree with you, even for you.

[TordelBack]

Read into this what you will but I'm drawing a line under it.

Fair enough Sharky, but your perspective is always welcome with me, however much I may disagree with it.

[The Legendary Shark]

Thanks, Tordels. It's good to know there are some people here who realise that entertaining an argument is not the same as accepting it.