I've watched the first episode.
The good:
Cast is very good and it is well acted.
It is gorgeous to look at. Apple clearly expects everyone to have a 4K+ television.
The bad:
If you're expecting a faithful adaptation, forget it.
Very little of Asimov's story or style is included. Where Asimov got straight to the heart of the story this is ponderously slow-building. At some points it's downright boring.
The ugly:
I couldn't help but think of Game of Thrones while watching this. Not because of the story but rather there seems to be an underlying current of casual cruelty that feels completely out of place. It shows in the actions of the Emperor and by the inclusion of all too real acts of violence for the sake of modernising the story to capture the average viewer unfamiliar with the story, Asimov, or scifi.
If it was just the good and the bad I would say this could end up being very watchable in the end. However, the ugly, if it continues, may be too much for me to stomach and I'll end up abandoning this after the second or maybe third episode.
Quote from: von Boom on 25 September, 2021, 06:05:28 PM
The bad:
If you're expecting a faithful adaptation, forget it.
Very little of Asimov's story or style is included. Where Asimov got straight to the heart of the story this is ponderously slow-building. At some points it's downright boring.
The ugly:
I couldn't help but think of Game of Thrones while watching this. Not because of the story but rather there seems to be an underlying current of casual cruelty that feels completely out of place. It shows in the actions of the Emperor and by the inclusion of all too real acts of violence for the sake of modernising the story to capture the average viewer unfamiliar with the story, Asimov, or scifi.
If it was just the good and the bad I would say this could end up being very watchable in the end. However, the ugly, if it continues, may be too much for me to stomach and I'll end up abandoning this after the second or maybe third episode.
My question to Hollywood why make a series based upon a great story and then you do your own thing? Foundation was never about brutality ,violence or cruelness it is about hope.
Given that most of FOUNDATION is just two or three people in a room talking, I would expect them to take plenty of liberties.
It's funny rereading it at the moment, I don't get a lot of "hope". It all feels a bit off with the manipulation of events even if it is for a "greater good".
Asimov's Foundation is based on Gibbon's The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and Apple is highlighting that with Game of Thrones style drama. This will undoubtedly appeal to a great many people but I was not a fan of GoT and never got through the first series. This may keep me from becoming a fan of this series which is unfortunate as Apple has clearly put a lot of effort into it.
I enjoyed the opening episode but I have decided from the word go not to see this as Asimov's Foundation but about the fall of empire or something like that.
Slightly amazed that anyone thinks a series of rather creaky books that are basically hundreds of pages of White Science Guys Talking, and written by a White Science Guy not exactly known for his dialogue or characterisation, ISN'T going to get a serious adaptation makeover.
Yeah. Bored the shit out of me. Bailed after 30 minutes... I'll give it another go tomorrow, but, really...? Not very impressed.
Quote from: GordonR on 26 September, 2021, 07:53:24 PM
Slightly amazed that anyone thinks a series of rather creaky books that are basically hundreds of pages of White Science Guys Talking, and written by a White Science Guy not exactly known for his dialogue or characterisation, ISN'T going to get a serious adaptation makeover.
THIS. I know I've actually read the Foundation books, but... jeez! I never liked Asimov's novels — he couldn't sustain a long-form narrative because he couldn't write a character worth a damn. His short stories were great, but the
big books...? Garbage, the lot of 'em.
Quote from: broodblik on 26 September, 2021, 07:17:05 PM
I enjoyed the opening episode but I have decided from the word go not to see this as Asimov's Foundation but about the fall of empire or something like that.
^This. Always this.^
It's so long since I struggled through the books (high school) that I remember virtually nothing about them, so I came at this tellyadapt fresh, more or less, and I enjoyed it. The characters engage me, the story interests me and the visuals please me. Very much looking forward to the rest of it.
This is the reason why I like his writing style since it is more simplistic which suites me when I started reading ,my first language is not English. Yes, his characters where not "strong" characters but it is all but the concept with his stories.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 25 September, 2021, 09:05:45 PM
Given that most of FOUNDATION is just two or three people in a room talking, I would expect them to take plenty of liberties.
Yes, Minister, & it's successor
Yes, Prime Minister, were pretty much three people talking in the same room every episode & that was some of the finest television ever. Just saying.
Quote from: O Lucky Stevie! on 27 September, 2021, 08:49:11 AM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 25 September, 2021, 09:05:45 PM
Given that most of FOUNDATION is just two or three people in a room talking, I would expect them to take plenty of liberties.
Yes, Minister, & it's successor Yes, Prime Minister, were pretty much three people talking in the same room every episode & that was some of the finest television ever. Just saying.
That's a decades-old sitcom. Not a giant-budget modern SF drama series. Sitcoms are three people in a room talking. Unless it's Steptoe & Son, in which case it's two people in a room talking.
You're comparing two two completely different things.
Also, plays. Also, one of the best episodes of Babylon 5, Intersections in real Time, is just two people in a room talking. Also, Pulp Fiction is full of scenes of people talking. I don't think that comparing a TV show to a TV show is comparing two different things. The question is, 'is the talking compelling?' My answer to that question regarding the first episode of Foundation is 'yes.'
If a big budget sci-fi wants to do three people in a room talking, at least one of those people damn well better have bits of rubber glued to their face.
Ah, so Star Wars would have been acceptable if it had been filmed as Leia and Luke sat telling General Dodonna about everything that happened?
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 27 September, 2021, 10:13:43 AM
Also, plays. Also, one of the best episodes of Babylon 5, Intersections in real Time, is just two people in a room talking. Also, Pulp Fiction is full of scenes of people talking. I don't think that comparing a TV show to a TV show is comparing two different things. The question is, 'is the talking compelling?' My answer to that question regarding the first episode of Foundation is 'yes.'
Especially when you have Lee Pace, Jared Harris and the like doing the talking. I loved the first episode.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 27 September, 2021, 02:00:50 PM
Ah, so Star Wars would have been acceptable if it had been filmed as Leia and Luke sat telling General Dodonna about everything that happened?
Get Threepio in there to do sound effects, it wouldn't be the worst Star Wars movie ever.
Episode 2's more of the same - another corker. One of the best things I've seen in a while - hope they can keep it up.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 27 September, 2021, 02:45:20 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 27 September, 2021, 02:00:50 PM
Ah, so Star Wars would have been acceptable if it had been filmed as Leia and Luke sat telling General Dodonna about everything that happened?
Get Threepio in there to do sound effects, it wouldn't be the worst Star Wars movie ever.
C3PO is the [muthafluffin'] master Storyteller (https://youtu.be/5yOjcr8JDt0)
OK. I take it back. I must have been in an odd mood yesterday, because we gave the first episode another go tonight and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
Good god is this gorgeous looking, never read the books so don't really know the story but liking it so far. Well acted and spectacular looking sci-fi, just what the doctor ordered. The fact something like this can be made for TV just shows we are in the golden age of TV and I have high hopes for upcoming series on the streaming services (please be good Wheel if Time🤞)
CU Radbacker
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 27 September, 2021, 02:00:50 PM
Ah, so Star Wars would have been acceptable if it had been filmed as Leia and Luke sat telling General Dodonna about everything that happened?
It may have (ahem) forced Lucas to address the deficiencies in his storytelling by not having the distraction of recreating of his favourite bits from his favourite films to fall back on.
Episode 3. Bland and directionless. They're edging into 'The Mayors' territory but rather poorly.
Unsurprisingly they've added a lot of extraneous material but they can't seem to decide how they want characters to be portrayed. In the first two episodes, the Emperor(s) are clearly meant to be hated but then we're supposed to feel sorry for them?
What's clearly missing is Asimov's firm belief that intelligence and careful planning will do more than threats and aggression.
I know it sounds like I want this series to fail but I'm quite the opposite. They could've added a lot of needless padding as long as they had kept the clear story Asimov gave us. I'm actually desperate for this series to be great but so far no luck.
Remember the first two seasons of Star Trek: The Next Generation? They were pretty dismal at points but by the third things really came together. This may be the problem with limited series like this. Eight or ten episodes a series is not enough to come to grips with the characters by the actors and the fans, especially for something as big as Foundation.
A longer series would give everyone a chance to breathe and relieve the pressure on the characters and the stories. I guess we'll have to wait and see.
I was going to post in the current telly thread but thought I'd resurrect this old thread. S2 of Foundation just wrapped up and I say go catch up with it those who have just been pointed at Slow Horses on Apple TV+. The podcast was a great way to keep the momentum going too. For me, it's the complete antidote to Ahsoka's blandness (sorry I'm one of those). Now if only they can resolve the writer's strike we can get on with S3.
Yes season 2 got better and better, with a belter episode 9. It's now far removed from the source but it's great tv, so who cares?
The final episode I was a bit disappointed with, things tied up a little too magically/handily. Still, looking forward to season 3, second foundation vs the Mule.
Do not expect the book expect the concept of the book. But all considered this so far for me is an excellent series.