Cam Kennedy artwork question

[Jim_Campbell]

Without actually handling it, I'm as sure as I can be that this is a production bromide, produced when the original artwork was camera-ed, to give a clean B&W image that could be used to generate the negatives that would be used for the printing plates.

A bit of theorising: bromides weren't cheap. If the settings were off when the bromide was produced and — say — the blacks weren't solid, it would be a lot cheaper to get someone on staff to spend a few minutes re-touching the bromide with light-fast ink than to make a new one.

(Which doesn't explain what Cam's signature is doing on it, obviously...)

Cheers

Jim

[Bolt-01]

Unless it was returned to Cam as the original...

Is that possible? If these bromides were part of the normal practice of prepping pages for print (and please remember I have almost no knowledge of this) then that implies that there 'could' be a lot of them around.

A fascinating thread this.

[SIP]

Sounds feasible. That's a good theory Dave, maybe this was returned to cam as the original. its entirely possible that if these exist then a lot of people might think that they have original pages when they do not. I wonder where the original might be.

[Dr Feeley Good]

I have owned a couple of bromides and still own a Ian Gibson one, and they are nothing like the Rogue page !

[Skullmo]

Anyone got a scan of the original printed page to see if it is exact?

[Jim_Campbell]

I have owned a couple of bromides and still own a Ian Gibson one, and they are nothing like the Rogue page !

How so? They're just like high-quality photocopies on shiny paper.

Cheers

Jim

[SIP]

This is on card though with a shiny surface layer. Possible that its the shiny paper pasted onto card but if it is then its been done extremely well.

[Jim_Campbell]

This is on card though with a shiny surface layer. Possible that its the shiny paper pasted onto card but if it is then its been done extremely well.

It wasn't at all uncommon to spray-mount or wax bromides onto heavier backing to make them more durable...

Cheers

Jim

[Dr Feeley Good]

I don't know how to describe it, they were very slap dash ! No effort to make them look like a finished page ! Where as the Rogue page really does look like proper artwork, also all my bromides still had production stamps on and details where they were to be used..

[ming]

Where as the Rogue page really does look like proper artwork, also all my bromides still had production stamps on and details where they were to be used..

It's a weird case, that's for sure.  The balance of probabilities suggests that this is not the original artwork as drawn by Cam, though.  Just a quick comparison of the pic Jim showed of the art for the second page from this episode (from Wake's collection) is enough to raise serious doubts - for me, at least.  Cam's comments also suggest that something's not right here.  As I said, if Wake can comment on how the back of his page looks (IPC stamp?  Prog and page details?  Sizing / repro info?) compared to Simon's, I think that should be conclusive.

The whole issue of 'what the hell is this, then?' would, of course, remain.  It's a bit strange to think that Cam wouldn't recognise production art (of whatever quality) as opposed to his originals, but then this appears to be signed...  Then again, I've never seen any bromides or other production art for Rogue knocking about either, so it's all a bit of a mystery - and will probably remain that way!

[Spikes]

Im pretty much convinced this is production art now. The additional photo's plus your original description all leads to that, im afraid.

Well, definitely pen marks all over the page, black has been applied, razor scratches everywhere (presumably to remove inking mistakes). No whiteout used (not conclusive though as may have been having a very good day!).

Leaving school, my first couple of jobs was in the printing industry (from about '84 to about 87), and that included a year at Leeds Poly studying Printing. We often made copies of images, and had to touch them up in the way thats been described. The smooth glossy finish made it easier to remove 'blemishes' with a sharp knife. And blacks were made more solid by filling them in. We also used to make 'negative' copies of images and touch those up - bypassing the 'postive' copy completely.
The negative copy was the last stage before creating a printing plate, if i recall.

I suspect Cam was sent this, by mistake, when his art was returned to him. And later signed and sold it on.
A few pieces of production art have been wrongly classed as original before now, so it can be an easy mistake to make, if its not checked properly. I guess this must have had enough going for it to resemble the original. Just very unfortunate that it slipped through.

[HaloJones]

Ive seen a lot of Bromides where the art has been touched up to remove faults and to darken areas which didn't come out right, so pen and razor marks can be seen on these production pages. Its very unlikely that it would have been sent to Cam at any point but could have been signed by Cam at any con here was at, it have been a much cooler item to get signed than the average book. It would not be the first time someone bought a Bromide as a real piece of art this kind of thing could happen to any of us.

[Recrewt]

It's a mystery isn't it? 

Looking at those pictures, Cam's signature looks to me like a copy - if that's the case then Cam could have signed it when he originally did it and this was copied like the lettering.  Plus, if this has been mounted on board then there might be a stamp there that we cannot see. 

Didn't the titan reprints often have creator involvement?  Could this be something that has been touched up for that, its then sent back to Cam and he has eventually passed it on. 

[Dr Feeley Good]

It couldn't have been signed at a con, it was bought directly from Cam

[Spikes]

Its very unlikely that it would have been sent to Cam at any point

By all accounts the IPC art vaults was a right shambles.
Many a tales been told about the art getting all mixed up and lost, stolen, damaged, or thrown into skips.
And of course someone may well have pilfered the original and slipped in the copy to cover their tracks, but I simply think it got included, for whatever reason, and now has popped up here.