The Black Dog Thread

[sheridan]

I had a friend who had a Viking funeral.  His ashes were put in a ship on Tate Hill Sands, Whitby (site of many a beach party) and three women fired burning arrows at the ship until it caught fire.

One of my earliest 'online' friends (from the heady days of Usenet, no less) did something similar.

Yes, Tal was my friend - I last saw him at one of his Whitby parties in October, in November he died.

Lembit managed to mention Tal in the House of Commons (under the name Endel).

[Jade Falcon]

Well today makes me feel even worse. I was in the bookshop as a customer. The snotty assistant manager from the other shop came in and said I was in the backshop against regulations. I wasn't, my toe might have been over the line. She said I was wholly in the back, I said 'whatever', I just wasn't in the mood for a confrontation, and she said not to come back and left.

I suddenly felt unwell, pounding headache, unsteady on my feet and generally light headed. One of the volunteers said I should sit down, and offered to call an ambulance. I declined but sat there for a time until the deputy manager returned. She looked at me as if I was something that she had scraped off her shoe and told me to leave. The volunteer mentioned nearly needing an ambulance but she totally ignored her and told me to leave again barring me from both shops.

I have never been barred from anywhere before, and for some possibly irrational reason I'm not happy leaving it there, that pair of bitches said they also informed the area manager.

This I feel is getting into victimisation territory.

[Funt Solo]

I know you're angry, upset and frustrated, and may well have every reason to be so, but I was wondering if it had occurred to you that they may be frightened of you. You keep using the word "bitch" to describe women you disagree with, and seem very angry with them. I wonder if you come across as angry and aggressive in person. I have no idea, but your stories suggest it's a possibility. Have you considered giving them some space so that they feel safe?

I realize my questions may not be welcome, but I'm uncomfortable not saying anything at this stage.

[Jade Falcon]

I know you're angry, upset and frustrated, and may well have every reason to be so, but I was wondering if it had occurred to you that they may be frightened of you. You keep using the word "bitch" to describe women you disagree with, and seem very angry with them. I wonder if you come across as angry and aggressive in person. I have no idea, but your stories suggest it's a possibility. Have you considered giving them some space so that they feel safe?

I realize my questions may not be welcome, but I'm uncomfortable not saying anything at this stage.

Far from it, when I first left due to depression, customers said they would miss me.

We have lost a lot of volunteers, and there were constant talks of respect, which is fair enough but when it only goes one way....

I don't use the word bitch verbally, and I only feel this way about the management. Our first manager was a woman who was hard, but fair, she wouldn't ask you to do something she wouldn't be willing to do herself.  The only time I might have seemed a bit ticked off was one time there was a customer who was very abrupt with me, so I asked her if I had said or done something wrong, she said no I was very polite, so it was possible she was having a bad day, was in a hurry or was perhaps feeling unwell. I was there for over three and a half years and no one ever complained

[Funt Solo]

Thanks for explaining more. I'm very aware that I'm not there on the ground with you, and don't know you particularly well, so it's difficult for me to imagine what's happening without jumping to conclusions.

[milstar]

Sorry for your mishap, Jade. Humans are sundry and all.
I can't say anything that'll help your condition, Jade. I don't have a magic wand, so I can only say try to think positive. Depression is a nasty bitch; hence, try to avoid things that make you depressive, at least those that make you personally depressive. Maybe to try traveling around the world, I don't know what else to say to you. Actually, the best advice I could give to you is to make some major changes in your life. Try something new (well, traveling is one of them). Until then, I'll repeat what someone wrote here already - post on the forum regularly.

[Jade Falcon]

No problem Funt Dog, I can understand what you mean.  It seems being polite with them makes you a mug.  We used to have a supervisor who got a job with the local council.  I asked to go for supervisor (still unpaid) training.  At that time I was working 24 hours a week.  All day Monday, Friday, Tuesday morning and Thursday afternoon.  I was told at the time by the Jobcentre I would have to cut hours to a maximum of 16 otherwise my benefits could be affected.  It seems this rule is no longer in place, but I digress.  I was looked at as if I had made a bad joke and then told I would have to work more hours and do hours in the 'general' store.  I mentioned the DWP restriction but it was said "Who will know", I wasn't about to risk it.

Sorry for your mishap, Jade. Humans are sundry and all.
I can't say anything that'll help your condition, Jade. I don't have a magic wand, so I can only say try to think positive. Depression is a nasty bitch; hence, try to avoid things that make you depressive, at least those that make you personally depressive. Maybe to try traveling around the world, I don't know what else to say to you. Actually, the best advice I could give to you is to make some major changes in your life. Try something new (well, traveling is one of them). Until then, I'll repeat what someone wrote here already - post on the forum regularly.

Unfortunately changing things seems to be easier said than done.  Travel probably isn't feasible for a number of reasons.  Being on benefits means the DWP want you at hand, understandably, but secondly, my health would probably mean health insurance would be crippling, no pun intended.  My late mum had got money some years back and proposed a trip to New York, a place I long have wanted to see, and for the two of us, health cover would be then £1800 +, before anything else.

I think what gets me is the lying, back when I tried to get back in they insisted I had walked out twice, which I still contend.  They said they had records, but its strange that if they have records they can't back up their assertion.

It's been bothering me all night.  I went to see Dune with some friends, and found that despite waiting weeks for this film and enjoying it, at moments I found my concentration slipping and dwelling on it.  I've had an almost continual migraine since the incident which refuses to go despite use of Co-Codomol.  I have stress related epilepsy and am worried it might trigger a fit..or worse.

[Mister Pops]

I know you're angry, upset and frustrated, and may well have every reason to be so, but I was wondering if it had occurred to you that they may be frightened of you. You keep using the word "bitch" to describe women you disagree with, and seem very angry with them. I wonder if you come across as angry and aggressive in person. I have no idea, but your stories suggest it's a possibility. Have you considered giving them some space so that they feel safe?

I realize my questions may not be welcome, but I'm uncomfortable not saying anything at this stage.

I think you need to reflect on this post Mister Funt. When someone reaches out and shares their anguish and mental health problems, is it appropriate to scold them for their choice of words and then suggest that maybe the problem is they're not a nice person? That might not have been you're intent but it certainly reads that way to me.

...I'm very aware that I'm not there on the ground with you, and don't know you particularly well, so it's difficult for me to imagine what's happening without jumping to conclusions.

You are definitely free to jump to any conclusion you like. You are also free evaluate how appropriate it is to share those conclusions.

Jade Falcon, I can't offer you any advice other than you don't have to justify your feelings to random strangers on the internet. It's good that you can vent here.

[Funt Solo]

...I'm very aware that I'm not there on the ground with you, and don't know you particularly well, so it's difficult for me to imagine what's happening without jumping to conclusions.

You are definitely free to jump to any conclusion you like. You are also free evaluate how appropriate it is to share those conclusions.

Well, that's what I did. I did evaluate how appropriate it would be. And I struggled with the decision of whether or not to post - entirely aware of the notion that someone sharing their struggles isn't best served by someone coming along and trying to undermine them. (Not actually my motive, of course.)

On the other hand, I work in a profession where sometimes the inability of some folk with a diagnosed mental condition to be able to divine their way through a social situation can lead to them lashing out inappropriately and placing other folk in danger.

So, in a situation where I'm wondering what the case is, and where misogynistic terminology, directed at a specific individual is being used repeatedly, and, well, with the things that happen in the news, and in my work place - it just felt like saying nothing was a worse option than saying something.

And Jade Falcon didn't seem too bothered about setting me straight, so (on balance) I'm glad I spoke up, even though I was nervous about doing so. Your mileage may vary.

[Tjm86]

No problem Funt Dog, I can understand what you mean.  It seems being polite with them makes you a mug. 

I get what you mean Jade but I am going to politely disagree with you.  That may well be how they choose to interpret it but that says more about them than you.  Behaving with respect and courtesy in the face of utterly unreasonable behaviour and actions speaks to reason and morality.

Funt does make a valid point as well about how mental health conditions can trigger 'unhelpful' behaviour that those around us find distressing.  Unfortunately I'm speaking from experience here which is one of the reasons why I try to monitor my emotional landscape closely. 

Having failed to do so in the past led to an extreme outburst that I actually only remember vaguely although I am fully aware of how inappropriate it was.  In retrospect it was a long time coming but there were plenty of indicators during the days leading up to it that I should have been more aware of. 

I would say that it is fair to ask the question about how our emotional landscape affects our behaviour.  I know that I can be abrupt and terse when I am struggling.  Fortunately I have people around me who know me well enough to call me out on it, or rather they ask how things are which helps since it gives me an external reference to how things are.

Jade is understandably struggling with the impact of the behaviour of this individual on an important aspect of his life.  I personally think that anyone would find it hard to manage the strong emotions that such an experience elicits.  What he describes regarding how it affected something as simple as watching a film is incredibly commonplace.

Mind you, we do have a tendency to avoid language that is deemed offensive.  We don't have many females habituating these parts but right now the issue of how males interact is a hot topic for obvious reasons.

Is it 'scolding' or is it subtle support in probing use?  Again I'm going to speak personally here but if Funt had asked me a similar question to that he posed to Jade in the way that he did then I would have taken it as support. 

I do also think that this is one of the reasons why this is such a pleasant and safe space.  There is community moderation of these issues quite a lot of the time that makes people feel like they can highlight things that affect them.

[milstar]

I don't think Jade here is that dangerous than could frighten some people. We all lash out, for sure, and I had my share of altercations with the folks of both gender. From what I understood from Jade's posts, he has a problem with depression, lack of sleeping and migraine attacks do not help either. But there are people with more severe mental problems and whom any sort of altercation could lead to some undesired consequence, either for yourself or the other. The truth is, very few people do get to feel or know what others do feel or know. And when the conflict is unavoidable...what then? I like to think there were situations when I went plain nuts, and quite uncalled for. Then again, I've been in situation where I somehow managed to control myself. I mean, I hated my math teacher and I nearly cursed at her when I got F once, like "go fuck yourself, twat", only because she said it's difficult to get F in her class. And I hated math.

Unfortunately changing things seems to be easier said than done.  Travel probably isn't feasible for a number of reasons.  Being on benefits means the DWP want you at hand, understandably, but secondly, my health would probably mean health insurance would be crippling, no pun intended.  My late mum had got money some years back and proposed a trip to New York, a place I long have wanted to see, and for the two of us, health cover would be then £1800 +, before anything else.

Is there some way Jade you could earn some quick quid on the side, some extra job or anything? Obviously, I am not suggesting any nefarious activities, but some job in the spare time, that still leaves you with some free time, and some money as well.

[Jade Falcon]

It's not the money, as I got a substantial back payment when I got PIP, but just that it is such an amount. I also don't want to squander it. I laid out on a few things initially, a repair on my car, a new razor, new mattress, but I don't want to go mad.

Basically I think this woman was spoiling for a fight. I wasn't in the back, she said I was, not wanting a confrontation I said whatever, and that gets me barred. I feel ill and take a seat and despite her being told that there had nearly been an ambulance called, she didn't give a shot and still told me to leave.

It's also the slanderous way she's went on that is hurting, I might direct a complaint to Oxfam itself, but considering they've had bigger scandals they seem almost like teflon.

Constantly going on about how staff and customers should be treated and then outright ignoring that self same directive stinks and is hypocrisy of the highest order.

[blackmocco]

I think you should move on. Seems like that choice has now been made for you anyway but engaging with these people who clearly cause you stress and angst is only going to cause you more stress and angst. They were dicks who you feel treated you badly so why even go back in there? Break the cycle. Find somewhere else to shop. Put that energy towards something good for yourself.

[Jade Falcon]

I know this sounds irrational, but I can't just 'let it go', its like an itch, I feel I have to do something.  I want to make a complaint, or at least try to, because I just don't think it's right that these two scum get away with treating people like this.  I know this really might not sound right, but it just seems, they wouldn't let me back in, but that wasn't enough, they had to humiliate me.  Enough is enough, I'm not going to take their crap lying down.

Bah, I know it sounds futile, it sounds stupid, but I just feel I've got to do...something.

Also, there aren't any other bookshops nearby, other charity shops have the usual token selection.

Sorry, a bit of a rant, but I'm not in the best frame of mind right now.

[Jade Falcon]

Sorry, that last post sounds a bit harsh (I couldn't see a way to edit the post hence the double), I just find it frustrating.  If there's any justice, karma or whatever, they'll have payback for their actions because honestly I can't fathom how they've kept their positions.

When I started we had one manager, as mentioned before.  The next one struggled, but at least tried and was approachable, but then there was a manager and deputy and it seemed that they did worse in terms of attendance, in terms of people skills and a lot of other things.

I enjoyed my time at the bookshop for a long time and then it suddenly went downhill.  It is hard to describe just how much.

My work at the hispice isn't as enjoyable as the bookshop was at it's best, but at least I feel that I'm doing something.  Maybe with luck they might expand their book section.