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Author Topic: The Mandalorian  (Read 106666 times)

TordelBack

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #300 on: 12 December, 2020, 03:51:06 PM »
Pretty sure Imperial armour is symbolic, acting to dehumanise and anonymise coercive  authority while summoning images of warriors of the galactic past.

The final straw for me was when Finn revealed the First Order version didn't even protect against toxic gas. The Clone Trooper version of 50 years before allowed its wearers to operate (for a limited time) in a vacuum!  PPE standards are on a downward trajectory.

I don't think Palps had any interest in troops that were actually resilient*, hence no shields in a TIE fighter either, it was all about appearance and numbers. And you can't deny that they look cool as.



*No-one who rules through fear and manipulation wants armed forces that can pose a threat to them - hence the idea of personal control of a single Death Star, instead of investing in a larger fleet, and manufacturing toops with secret chips in their heads that give you direct and absolute control.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #301 on: 13 December, 2020, 12:17:27 AM »
I know it's an old trope, and it's even referred to in the Mandalorian, but even crap armour notwithstanding, Stormtroopers really are awful soldiers. They couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo and even when their lasers do hit they seem less effective than bullets.  Or maybe it's just that all their opponents are really, really good at fighting and only make them seem bad.

Also, every time I see the word Mandalorian mentioned, I sing it in my head to the tune of the chorus of the Pixies' Velouria.
« Last Edit: 13 December, 2020, 12:23:46 AM by JayzusB.Christ »
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #302 on: 13 December, 2020, 12:24:15 AM »
I know it's an old trope, and it's even referred to in the Mandalorian, but even crap armour notwithstanding, Stormtroopers really are awful soldiers. They couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo and even when their lasers do hit they seem less effective than bullets.  Or maybe it's just that all their opponents are really, really good at fighting and only make them seem bad.

Also, every time I see the word Mandalorian mentioned, I sing it in my head to the tune of the Pixies' Velouria.
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

TordelBack

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #303 on: 13 December, 2020, 12:39:46 AM »
soldiers. They couldn't hit a cow's arse with a banjo ...

Prior to the Disney era this wasn't really true, outside of spoofs. Oh no, it's after-midnight hobby-horse time! Look away!

The stormies in A New Hope zap the rebels easy enough on the Tantive IV, including Princess Leia, and then offscreen they successfully massacre the Jawas and the Lars family, as well as apparently taking out a sandcrawler with 'precise' blaster work. Not so great at Mos Eisley, but not visibly disastrous. Similarly they make light work of the rebels on Hoth, and don't do too badly on Bespin either. 

Post-mortems on the Endor business always seem a bit unfair.  The Emperor's 'best troops'* initially capture the entire rebel strike force, shoot Leia, and kill a good few Ewoks, but it's not an open fight and they are outnumbered planet-to-legion and undone by their inferior knowledge of their terrain and their shitty, shitty armour and vehicles.  (The Endor Biker Scouts are admittedly totally awful, as confirmed in Mando, but that's scouts for you).

In fact, in the whole OT it's only on the Death Star that stormtroopers are actual completely barn-door-missing crap.

Except that this exactly what they were supposed to do.  Vader lets the lads rescue Leia and escape, so that she can lead him to the Rebel base, which is the plot of the movie from his PoV. The Death Star plans are a secondary if embarrassing issue for Tarkin & Co because they believe completely in the technological terror they've created: finding and wiping out the rebels is the objective, and if it can be done promptly, the plans don't matter at all.

Because of this, the Death Star stormies are really order-following heroes, earning their Obi-Wan-endorsed reputation for precision marksmanship by missing every shot, knowingly laying down their lives for the Empire.  I'm sure they'd all have been decorated afterwards, if only, well, you know.


*This claim by noted liar Palpatine requires us to believe that for some reason he hadn't already stationed, and lost, his 'best troops' on the first Death Star and at the Imperial Vault on Scariff.  These guys are the best of what's left.
« Last Edit: 13 December, 2020, 12:46:17 AM by TordelBack »

Tiplodocus

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #304 on: 13 December, 2020, 11:02:59 AM »
Is it three years between Star Wars and Return of the Jedi? That's time enough for new crack troops to come to the fore.
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #305 on: 13 December, 2020, 12:19:53 PM »

All stormtroopers are as good as the plot demands.

~~~^~~~~~~~


Dive a little deeper - all is not as it seems. "Cyber pandemic" on the way. Devices to be "quarantined" (disconnected).

TordelBack

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #306 on: 13 December, 2020, 12:56:33 PM »
Is it three years between Star Wars and Return of the Jedi? That's time enough for new crack troops to come to the fore.
True!

All stormtroopers are as good as the plot demands.

Also true! In the case of RotJ, the plot demands an amusing re-run of Vietnam.

I still think the Endor troops aren't as rubbish as made out - it's just that we the audience (like the Imperials themselves) can't see past the cute furry facades to see just how cunning and vicious an opponent the man-eating Ewoks are. The ease with which they come up with bombing gliders, catapults, giant deadfall traps etc. overnight speaks to either a stone age culture in a state of constant tribal warfare or a preternaturally ingenious species. Either way, I wouldn't want to be TK-19.

James Stacey

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #307 on: 14 December, 2020, 02:18:41 PM »
rewatched Rogue One again last night. The stormtroopers are pretty good shots in that too, apart from when they are shooting at Chirrut in one scene,

sheridan

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #308 on: 14 December, 2020, 02:21:59 PM »
rewatched Rogue One again last night. The stormtroopers are pretty good shots in that too, apart from when they are shooting at Chirrut in one scene,

Yeah, but he's one with the Force and the Force is with him, so that doesn't count.

TordelBack

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #309 on: 14 December, 2020, 02:26:43 PM »
rewatched Rogue One again last night. The stormtroopers are pretty good shots in that too, apart from when they are shooting at Chirrut in one scene,

Their armour reaches new depths of crapness, mind. Chirrut wipes out an entire squad with a cane.

shaolin_monkey

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #310 on: 14 December, 2020, 02:44:04 PM »
To be fair, if it wasn’t for the remarkable sturdiness of Beskar, the stormtroopers would have nailed the Mandalorian a few times over by now.

JayzusB.Christ

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #311 on: 14 December, 2020, 06:19:03 PM »
Fair points. I'll give the stormtroopers another chance then. (But I'd also say that those lasers they fire seem a tad less effective than bullets - I suspect one of Dredd's armour piercers would get through that armour pretty sharpish.)
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Mister Pops

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #312 on: 15 December, 2020, 02:13:05 AM »
You may quote me on that.

Tiplodocus

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #313 on: 15 December, 2020, 09:36:44 AM »
rewatched Rogue One again last night. The stormtroopers are pretty good shots in that too, apart from when they are shooting at Chirrut in one scene,

Their armour reaches new depths of crapness, mind. Chirrut wipes out an entire squad with a cane.

A cane wielded by Donnie Yen, lest we forget. 

Let's just take a moment to remember Donnie Yen was in a Star Wars movie. And they used him right.
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

TordelBack

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Re: The Mandalorian
« Reply #314 on: 15 December, 2020, 10:10:23 AM »