Headlines I didn't think I'd be seeing tonight: Oscar winner Will Smith hits Chris Rock on stage (https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60897004)
Well that is the only way that I can watch the Oscars maybe next time organize a full out brawl
Pretty disappointed in this actually. I wouldn't put up with it from Jeremy Clarkson so I shouldn't put up with it from the Fresh Prince.
Violence never a good idea. Especially when the joke about Jada was based around GI JANE. Surely the obvious response is to tell Chris Rock "Suck my d!*k!".
Making a joke about a persons medical condition is horrible behaviour. Slapping someone in the face is also horrible behaviour. None of them come out of this well and I bet they both feel like shit this morning.
Quite an understandable reaction under the circumstances.
I heard after that one little fight his mom got scared and said "You're moving to your auntie and uncle in Bel-Air"
I can't accept Smith's behavior as being at all justified. First off, his wife isn't his property - so he doesn't need to defend her honor by slapping people about. I don't even know if Chris Rock knew that her hair style was more of a condition than a choice. Smith didn't act with honor (even if you buy into the idea that husbands have a duty to protect their wives) because he didn't give Chris any warning - he sucker-slapped him. Then he gives a speech in which he effectively says that violence is love, which is an excuse used by abusers.
Seems like a lot of folk are walking away from this with entirely the wrong message in their heads - because "violence is the answer" deserves a more compelling question than this.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 28 March, 2022, 03:16:57 PM
I don't even know if Chris Rock knew that her hair style was more of a condition than a choice.
These events are heavily scripted. You'd think
somebody would have said "are you sure about this?"
QuoteFirst off, his wife isn't his property - so he doesn't need to defend her
People don't only care about their property. You can defend people you care about too.
QuoteI can't accept Smith's behavior as being at all justified
I agree it's not justified. But I think it's quite understandable, and that there's no need to suggest that he's an abuser who thinks his wife is his chattel; that's a bit of an overreaction and lacking in empathy.
There's plenty of ground between "morally beyond reproach" and "despicable."
Quote from: Richard on 28 March, 2022, 08:36:28 PM
a bit of an overreaction and lacking in empathy.
What's worse: Smith's assault or my reaction?
I'd have a lot more sympathy for his assaulting someone without warning if he took the time to apologize for it later - which he hasn't. I mean: not to the the victim of his physical violence. Painting it as "violence out of love" is - simply - abusive. "This is going to hurt me more than it hurts you." Yeah - no.
Maybe he will apologize in the future. Who knows? I hope he does - because he's an influential man, and what he's just taught everyone watching is that violence is okay, violence in defense of ill-defined honor red lines is okay - you even get to have an award later and go to a party and smile for the cameras and not apologize to your victim. It's all perfectly okay.
And there's the direct apology: Will Smith apologises to Chris Rock after Oscars slap (https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60909487).
Refreshingly a proper apology. No weasel words immediately obvious to me and none of that "I'm sorry you feel that way..." crap.
Ukraine war: Russia to curb Kyiv assault as peace talks progress (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60916098)
Glimmers of hope at the peace talks - so odd to see Abramovich in the middle of all that. I thought he was "just a businessman". I suppose that's naive of me.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 29 March, 2022, 03:20:21 PM
Ukraine war: Russia to curb Kyiv assault as peace talks progress (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60916098)
Glimmers of hope at the peace talks - so odd to see Abramovich in the middle of all that. I thought he was "just a businessman". I suppose that's naive of me.
Have you heard of "sports washing"?
Quote from: Mister Pops on 29 March, 2022, 10:22:51 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 29 March, 2022, 03:20:21 PM
Ukraine war: Russia to curb Kyiv assault as peace talks progress (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60916098)
Glimmers of hope at the peace talks - so odd to see Abramovich in the middle of all that. I thought he was "just a businessman". I suppose that's naive of me.
Have you heard of "sports washing"?
I'd not heard the phrase before - although I was aware of the 1936 Olympics being a propaganda platform for Nazi Germany. I'd always thought Russia having oligarchs was relatively positive - you know - happy economy means happy state, sort of thing. Mind you - I was just reading one of the later chapters of Sapiens (Harari, 2015) and he was saying how relatively peaceful the world had become. (He did end the chapter by saying that it might not stay that way, though.)
The oligarchs were never a good sign, because most Russians still remained poor, with the wealth being concentrated in a few hands at the top, generating resentment and cynicism about the alleged benefits of democracy.
(https://i.imgur.com/JzT8p95.jpg)
Ain't that the truth!
One daily challenge I have - given that I consume so much news - is trying to share something upbeat with the family so that I'm not just interminably gloomy and depressing. So, yeah - the end is nigh, but is there any good news out there?
This may not seem, on the surface, like good news, but the article is less damning than the headline: Moon Knight review: This Marvel show has no reason to exist (https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20220328-moon-knight-review-this-marvel-show-has-no-reason-to-exist)
I'm onboard for the sharing of positive news stories!
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 30 March, 2022, 05:16:58 PM
I'm onboard for the sharing of positive news stories!
Yes. In that spirit, here is a picture of the new moon rocket (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-60788761)
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/69FF/production/_123753172_51943922372_39c7ec0736_5k.jpg)
Me am ignorant, because in the article it says "[the SLS] was designed to be more powerful than the Apollo Saturn vehicles of the late 1960s and early 1970s", but then in the chart (below) it seems like the Saturn is the more powerful payload lifter. I must be missing something.
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/F58E/production/_123226826_comparison_of_rockets_640_v2-nc.png)
SLS Block 2 will be more powerful. Block 1 is a test/proof of concept vehicle. I think its made from left over bits of the space shuttles and the like.
Watched this unfold in real-time on social media. This was five minutes from our house. Modern media is strange.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-60949605 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-60949605)
Pretty rare for that sort of carry on up in the Schneck.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 01 April, 2022, 03:31:20 PM
Pretty rare for that sort of carry on up in the Schneck.
Indeed! The footage (online if you look, I'll not link here) of him running at the police is pretty frightening. Can you imagine being an INverness cop, used to speeding and shooing ducks snd sheep off the roads, then getting a call to say a guy had set his flat on fire and was now standing outside with a couple of knifes - go and sort it mate, eh?
Oh, man! I hope everyone's okay - including the perp, who probably doesn't have all his marbles.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 01 April, 2022, 04:52:01 PM
Oh, man! I hope everyone's okay - including the perp, who probably doesn't have all his marbles.
I suspect he was a very ill man, yeah. There's no further news as yet though.
On balance, I *think* this counts as good news: Boris Johnson and Rishi Sunak fined over lockdown parties (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-61083402).
Every little helps.
I was having a conversation with my brother a couple of days ago about how it was a bit weird seeing Boris strolling along the streets of Kyiv when he'd been sneaking out the back door of Bute House to avoid the scary Scottish protestors just 3 years ago, and how there must be a bit of news about to break that the tories really, really wanted to counterbalance/distract folk away from.
Not that his heroic war efforts will help any Ukrainian refugees, who cartoon villain Priti Patel wants to be sent to a distant dictatorship. Or is this just a bit of red meat to distract from the fact that the UK is being led by proven law-breakers and liars?
I suppose the Tories are doubling down on their Brexit win (a xenophobic policy popular with enough voters to see them comfortably in power) by shutting down safe routes for asylum seekers, blowing the immigration rate out of all proportion, making it terribly difficult for any refugees (be they Ukrainian or from anywhere else) to get here and now deporting people to a country with a terrible record on human rights.
They've found themselves a previously untapped motherlode of cross-class bigotry and they're mining it to stay in power.
Here's hoping that a constant drip-drip of party scandal can do something to outweigh all of that.
Wish I could be optimistic about it, but if a conman who helped to organise an anti-democratic coup is a shoe-in for next American president, I think Johnson might weather this one out.
... and in today's news the Russian Government has banned Johnson from travelling to Russia. Britain takes to the streets in protest at this outrageous decision: if nations keep banning him then the UK will be stuck with the mop-haired muppet!
Quote from: Funt Solo on 28 March, 2022, 05:16:33 AM
Headlines I didn't think I'd be seeing tonight: Oscar winner Will Smith hits Chris Rock on stage (https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-60897004)
I was waiting for a "Gaze into the fist of Smith" meme with Fear's head on Chris Rock, but thankfully I don't think it ever happened.
This news story made me happy: US man wins $450k lawsuit after unwanted office birthday party (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61141421).
Nice!
Newsthump (https://newsthump.com/) are on fire with their headlines today:
'I am too stupid to understand my own laws' insists man in effort to regain confidence of nation
Conservatives tell Boris Johnson 'this is your last chance' for the 27th time
Parliament to give over time for daily apology from Boris Johnson for previous day's transgressions
SNP's Ian Blackford calls Boris Johnson 'a liar' in Commons (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka4i34zbrq0) - and this time, the Speaker lets him carry on.
Gary Gibbon's goes for the throat in this C4 interview: Boris Johnson questioned on Partygate during India trip – as pressure builds at home (https://youtu.be/OToE94pSEpI)
I'd almost feel sorry for him if it weren't for the fact that he's a horrible, self-serving, arrogant bully that deserves to fail.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 21 April, 2022, 10:29:57 PM
SNP's Ian Blackford calls Boris Johnson 'a liar' in Commons (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka4i34zbrq0) - and this time, the Speaker lets him carry on.
Gary Gibbon's goes for the throat in this C4 interview: Boris Johnson questioned on Partygate during India trip – as pressure builds at home (https://youtu.be/OToE94pSEpI)
I'd almost feel sorry for him if it weren't for the fact that he's a horrible, self-serving, arrogant bully that deserves to fail.
I must say that I got a warm feeling of schadenfreude while watching Johnson squirm like that. And then...'we got Brexit done and rolled out the vaccines' in a single sentence. I really, really hope he's consigned to history very, very soon.
It's looking good for France not electing a fascist. Not saying Macron is perfect, of course, but he isn't, y'know, a fascist, so he has that going for him.
Trigger warning: this is war news, so avoid if you're finding it too much.
Paraic O'Brien's reports are always very affecting as he tends to focus on the plight of individuals: The Ukrainian refugees who end up in Russia – often not by choice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYHyblSkHPQ&t=211s)
Bruce Willis gives up acting due to brain disorder aphasia (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60934576).
:-(
It would appear that Johnson's moral bankruptcy is finally getting through to voters. Nice one, UK, I haven't given up on you all just yet!
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 06 May, 2022, 11:35:46 AM
It would appear that Johnson's moral bankruptcy is finally getting through to voters. Nice one, UK, I haven't given up on you all just yet!
The Tories have lost Westminster council (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-61343765) - that's quite an achievement!
You are not stuck in a time warp: Boris Johnson pictured drinking at No 10 lockdown event (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-61557064)
Quote from: Funt Solo on 23 May, 2022, 10:18:45 PM
You are not stuck in a time warp: Boris Johnson pictured drinking at No 10 lockdown event (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-61557064)
I think it's quite important to keep reiterating this: the thing to remember, above all else, as this rumbles on, is — don't be angry because you followed the rules. It was the right thing to do. There are almost certainly people alive today who wouldn't be, because you followed the rules.
Be angry because THEY DIDN'T. Be angry because HE DIDN'T.
Like button please!
Maybe we'll get lucky and monkeypox will mutate into Torypox.
I wonder if the smallpox vaccine can protect against monkey pox? Would save research time if a vaccine is needed.
Quote from: The Doctor Alt 8 on 24 May, 2022, 12:39:17 AM
I wonder if the smallpox vaccine can protect against monkey pox?
I believe it does. I read a Twitter thread from a virologist summarising the current state of outbreaks worldwide (IIRC: concerning, but not alarming in scale or spread thus far. The virus doesn't seem to have 'legs', in as much as each case is only able to infect a very small number of people and infection requires direct physical contact... so we're not looking another Covid, with it's long asymptomatic infectious stage and relatively easy transmission.)
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 24 May, 2022, 07:36:26 AM
I read a Twitter thread from a virologist summarising the current state of outbreaks worldwide
Actually, you can find a pretty detailed report of the CDC's summary on monkeypox here. (https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/05/everything-cdc-wants-you-to-know-about-monkeypox-and-the-current-risk-level/)
Pretty much what I said above and, yes, smallpox vaccines are effective.
Is there any possible way Johnson can wriggle out of this? Can't see how, but sadly I suspect the answer is yes, somehow there will be a way. There always is for him, it seems.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 24 May, 2022, 03:49:24 PM
Is there any possible way Johnson can wriggle out of this? Can't see how, but sadly I suspect the answer is yes, somehow there will be a way. There always is for him, it seems.
The arbiter on breaches of the ministerial code is... the Prime Minister. He won't go willingly because he has no honour, no sense of decency, duty or responsibility, and he geniunely believes that rules don't apply to him because, well, for his entire life
they haven't.Pretty sure the only way he goes is if the rest of the MPs oust him, and they haven't shown the stomach for it yet.
I wouldn't even say that Johnson wriggles out of these messes - they just get ignored and for some reason no consequences ever come back.
Pretty sure this is up to the voters. Whenever he's asked about it he just smirks and wiggles his mop around.
The idea that tanking back booze is just a normal part of his work life demonstrates quite neatly how it really is "one rule for them". If I drank booze at work I'd be disciplined and quite possibly lose my job. Apparently being in charge of an entire country requires that you be an alcoholic. Not entirely surprising, I suppose...
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 24 May, 2022, 04:05:15 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 24 May, 2022, 03:49:24 PM
Is there any possible way Johnson can wriggle out of this? Can't see how, but sadly I suspect the answer is yes, somehow there will be a way. There always is for him, it seems.
The arbiter on breaches of the ministerial code is... the Prime Minister. He won't go willingly because he has no honour, no sense of decency, duty or responsibility, and he geniunely believes that rules don't apply to him because, well, for his entire life they haven't.
Pretty sure the only way he goes is if the rest of the MPs oust him, and they haven't shown the stomach for it yet.
This is the bit I can't quite understand... yes, they want to stay in power, but how does hitching yourself to Johnson help? Surely his electoral Midas touch won't work any more? Last I checked his approval and disapproval rates were 26% and 68% respectively, and that was most likely updated before yesterday's revelations.
While I think that Trump has the sense of integrity and moral compass of a corpse, I can see how kowtowing to him is politically advantageous, but I just can't see johnson ever being a vote-winner again.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 24 May, 2022, 05:45:40 PM
...but I just can't see johnson ever being a vote-winner again.
I would like you to be correct. I suppose, tactically, if he really is going to have crippled his own chances of another win - maybe he should stay in post.
I think the Tories are gambling on this notion: by the time of the next election, people won't care anymore about Partygate and will be more concerned about whatever's happening then.
I suppose Johnson thinks he's Winston Churchill and can vicariously grab glory by supporting the war in Ukraine.
But what will people care about at the next election? The news keeps talking about the cost of living crisis as the focal point. Future doesn't look rosy, there. Is the real reason nobody wants to oust Boris (from within) that nobody wants to be wearing the crown because the economy's in crisis?
Politics always drives me in circles. The only thing I know: if he had any honor, he'd resign.
If he had any honour, he'd never have run for office in the first place.
Bigger problem is that far too many in British politics should never have run for office in the first place. At the risk of lighting the blue touch paper Sharkey, the 650 'honourable' members of the House of Commons are the best argument I know for your way of thinking. Less said about the 800 odd 'lords and ladies' in the other place.
What I find incredibly disconcerting is that even the most cursory reading of Arendt raises serious questions about what is happening in our nation at present (apologies to our brethren in "the colonies" who have suffered similarly in recent years ...).
The reason most Tories won't oust Johnson is because they don't believe there's anyone better as a replacement. That says a lot about the state of the party. But then that's what happens when you excise quality (eg Dominic Grieve) from your ranks and make two demands regarding candidacy: that you be a full-hearted Brexit supporter and that you be a full-fat Johnson supporter.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 24 May, 2022, 07:41:50 PM
The reason most Tories won't oust Johnson is because they don't believe there's anyone better as a replacement.
Yep. You only have to look at the shower of sycophantic cretins whose pictures appear next to the dictionary definition of "Dunning-Kruger Effect" that comprise the entire Tory front bench to see the fundamental problem here. In the past, even the Tories I'd thought of as fundamentally evil bastards were at least vaguely
competent evil bastards... this lot, though...
Quote from: Funt Solo on 24 May, 2022, 05:52:43 PM
I suppose Johnson thinks he's Winston Churchill...
To be fair, he has nailed the "Tory with a drinking problem" aspect
Just reading the Gray report. I can't help but feel he's going to get away with it.
He'll never resign, no matter what: the rules simply don't apply to him. He'd need to be removed by his own party and as IP says, there's nobody seen as viable to replace him, because anyone competent has been removed and replaced with the current gaggle of yes-men and lunatics who comprise the current cabinet. I don't think they believe the likes of Hunt or Truss can win an election and they'd rather have Johnson squatting atop the party like some kind of malevolent toad whilst they hedge their bets that we'll all get distracted by something else.
The number of sycophants who are lining up to excuse him is unreal and stomach churning. I suspect if he was photographed in an act of necrophilia there'd still be Tories giving excuses: 'He just happen to fall on top of the body', 'he was only inside it for a second' and so on.
Blood-boilingly angry as it all is, there's serious repurcussions if this is all hand-waved away, because it sends out the message that you can basically get away with anything if your press is good: it opens the door to a much more Trump-ian style of politics. It's despair and rage in equal measure.
Quote from: Tjm86 on 24 May, 2022, 06:50:03 PM
Bigger problem is that far too many in British politics should never have run for office in the first place. At the risk of lighting the blue touch paper Sharkey, the 650 'honourable' members of the House of Commons are the best argument I know for your way of thinking. Less said about the 800 odd 'lords and ladies' in the other place.
There was a meme going around in the 2000s about a workplace that contained $however-many bankrupts, $however-many sex offenders (the list went on - you get the picture). The punchline was that the workplace was Congress (or possibly the Senate or House of Representatives). It'd be interesting to see how the numbers match up in the UK for Parliament. And then compare them to similarly sized prisons - Dartmoor has 646 (roughly the size of the Commons), Brixton has 798 (Lords) and Birmingham has 1450 (both houses).
If nothing else, this is why we ideally need the polling to hold reasonably form, and for Lab/Lib to party like it's 1997. ~300 Labour MPs with confidence from ~30 Libs, in return for PR would be transformative. It would be extremely unlikely we'd end up with another shower like these odious toads, unless the entire country lurched very heavily towards the right.
But, yes, he'll get away with it. The report itself lays the foundations for that. He lied repeatedly in the Commons. His colleagues have lied repeatedly about what happened and what he was nicked for. And despite saying how humble and sorry he was, he used it as an opportunity to demand Starmer's resignation—which chunks of the press are calling for. (Starmer doesn't look to have broken any laws, of course; but even if he is judged to have done and falls on his sword, you can see that the response will be about how awful Labour is, and how the Tory leader didn't resign.)
I expect he'll be quaffing champagne in celebration while Elsie, keeping warm in a bus, is driven past a few blocks away from Downing Street.
Sorry to double post, but this is one of those days where the news is all just too grim to read.
Here's a macaque to cheer us up:
(https://mongabay-images.s3.amazonaws.com/14/1229_b_Macaque.jpg)
Amber Heard and Johnny Depp's 'Trial by TikTok' (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61649522)
Well, that was disappointing. Spoilers: he gets $15million, she gets $2million.
I'd have awarded them each one dollar and told them they were both over-privileged prima donnas with substance abuse issues who have behaved appallingly to one another. Just ... no shame at all.
There's a temptation to give her the dollar and Depp nothing, purely on the basis that there's a misogynistic fervor online at the moment that are holding him up as some kind of ideal of manliness. He's a fucking car crash of a human. Get a grip, Internet. (Oh ... wait, my expectations are ridiculous.)
Aye, I used to think Johnny Depp was a fairly cool fella but it would seem he's a bit of a gobshite. How big a gobshite we'll probably never know but he's definitely a bit of one. Hopefully the pair of them will fade into obscurity now this thing is over.
Are we absolutely sure the whole thing wasn't just a long form performance art piece?
In other news, the closing of food banks to celebrate the jubilee of a multi-millionaire who gets part of my paycheque every month is a perfect encapsulation of Britain in 2022.
Well, at least the focus of this jubilee is a new Royal Charter to prevent child trafficking.
Wait - it's not?
Well, at least the focus of this jubilee is equal billing of all the Royals, regardless of perceived ethnicity.
Wait - it's not?
disturbing to hear a little child on the news saying that the queen "has done a good job".
and macron has just called the queen "a source of great wisdom".
i bear no personal animosity towards this elderly woman (and i obviously have some sympathy towards her regarding the behaviour of her dysfunctional family). but what is this "job" i keep hearing about? hasn't she been paid a salary beyond anyone's dreams for the "job" of merely existing?
also, there have been too many articles in the guardian urging republicans to join in with the festivities.
sorry. i forgot.
i forgot that she was officially chosen by god.
my bad. rule britannia.
Privatize the Monarchy!
Quote from: Mister Pops on 02 June, 2022, 09:08:30 PM
Privatize the Monarchy!
Absolutely - the perfect meld of anarchy and capitalism. If you do want to donate some of your earnings to supporting them, then do it - if you don't, don't. Problem solved.
Oklahoma hospital shooting: Four dead after gunman targets doctor (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61676811)
The problem, though, is categorically not anything to do with mass gun ownership. Don't be silly! It follows that removing the mass availability of guns would to nothing at all to stop events like this occurring. You're being silly again!
'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens (https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1819580358)
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 02 June, 2022, 09:38:41 PM
Quote from: Mister Pops on 02 June, 2022, 09:08:30 PM
Privatize the Monarchy!
Absolutely - the perfect meld of anarchy and capitalism. If you do want to donate some of your earnings to supporting them, then do it - if you don't, don't. Problem solved.
Cue fireworks and champagne for that other rare event... I agree with the Shark 100%! Seems like a decent enough sort, that Liz Windsor, but I'll never understand how people support the idea that someone is superior to them by nature of an accident of birth.
Admittedly, we used to have monarchs over here too, but at least our ones could warp spasm.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 03 June, 2022, 12:27:03 AM
Admittedly, we used to have monarchs over here too, but at least our ones could warp spasm.
According to David Icke the Queen is actually a shape-shifting lizard so there's hope for us yet.
Cheers
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 02 June, 2022, 09:06:15 PM
disturbing to hear a little child on the news saying that the queen "has done a good job".
what is this "job" i keep hearing about?
I think it's keeping the idea that the monarchy is somehow vaguely relevant and useful in 21st Century Britain. If you count the number of people who are liable to comment on the monarchy positively so long as she's the focus of the conversation ... (as opposed to the assorted narcissists, nonces and philanderers that inhabit the royal succession lists)
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 02 June, 2022, 09:06:15 PM
and macron has just called the queen "a source of great wisdom".
Now this one is truly baffling. I mean, other than her annual Crimbo natter I've not seen or heard much from her and nothing of an awe-inspiring philosophical / scientific / thought-provoking bent. Unless of course Macron was being 'humorous'? Non?
And poor old Prince Andrew won't be attending because he is widely despised "has Covid. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61676093)"
Quote from: Funt Solo on 02 June, 2022, 06:32:26 PM
Well, at least the focus of this jubilee is a new Royal Charter to prevent child trafficking...
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 03 June, 2022, 09:08:07 PM
And poor old Prince Andrew won't be attending because he is widely despised "has Covid. (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-61676093)"
:-\
I'm very far from a monarchist, but if you HAVE to have one, I think you could probably do a lot worse than QE2, who seems, as I said, an OK sort, despite so many of her family being dreadful. Wonder what will happen when Charles puts on the metal hat? I really can't see him having the chops to inspire a nation the way his old dear does.
I've just been into town and there's a big jubilee celebration on, but very little to tell it's for the jubilee itself - there's a bit of bunting up but mainly people seem to be using it as an excuse to drink beer and eat burgers. I'm not sure the appetite is there nowdays.
IMO the sooner we're rid of the monarchy the better, although I can't see that happening in my lifetime or any other forseeable one. HRH seems alright... apart from the £12million of taxpayer money she just spent getting her paedophile son off the hook. So she's not alright. Not in my book anyway.
lifelong republican here, as i simply cannot understand this servile worship of an accident of birth.
except ... i fear that this country would choose to have a president farage or suchlike.
I was having a chat with someone online about this. My personal position is I find the royals impossible to align with a democratic country, but also I don't actually care enough about them to shout about it. My hope is that reform happens from the other direction. As said other person agreed in the end, better a monarchy with PR (Sweden) than a republic with FPTP (Belarus or the USA). Ideally, of course, we'd have a modern democratic system, but we need to fight from the right end, where there is popular support ("fair votes") rather than expend a lot of energy on where there isn't, but where popular support will naturally wane over the coming years (monarchy).
I don't know what republicans expect to get from having an elected president, but given the public's track record of electing prime ministers during my lifetime, I would much prefer the system we currently have.
So long as we place ourselves under the control others (popes, monarchs, presidents, prime ministers, generals, bankers, etc.), the system can never be fair or balanced.
If only we had some sort of thread dedicated to politics in which to discuss such topics... :-|
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 04 June, 2022, 04:26:23 PM
If only we had some sort of thread dedicated to politics in which to discuss such topics... :-|
Please stop.
Satire, man - just satire.
No criticisms, no complaints. I don't own this joint, I just hang here.
Quote from: Richard on 04 June, 2022, 04:10:06 PM
I don't know what republicans expect to get from having an elected president, but given the public's track record of electing prime ministers during my lifetime, I would much prefer the system we currently have.
You'd still have those prime ministers even without the monarch, surely?
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 04 June, 2022, 04:26:23 PM
If only we had some sort of thread dedicated to politics in which to discuss such topics... :-|
Anyone's free to start a new thread focused more specifically on politics. Or even start up an entirely new forum dedicated to such.
---
Back on topic, though: I'm no expert on forms of government, but I'm pretty sure you can keep a prime minister without keeping a monarchy. I mean - it's just a bunch of humans - we can do whatever we want, theoretically.
I've always been swayed by the pub argument that the monarchy of the UK is somehow a net benefit due to tourism, but I've no idea if that's actually true. It is distasteful that Prince Andrew gets off the hook for going to court for an insidious crime because he can afford to be bailed out by money that probably started its life as taxes. And, instead of, I don't know, becoming a monk or something, or keeping a low profile, he still enjoys many of the benefits of being a member of the landed gentry. Or: rich man gets away with it.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 04 June, 2022, 07:33:53 PM
Back on topic, though: I'm no expert on forms of government, but I'm pretty sure you can keep a prime minister without keeping a monarchy.
The amusing flip side of this is some of the vox pops that the news media has been doing over the last couple of days with people expressing their views on why Charles shouldn't be the next monarch. I fear these people may have drastically misunderstood how the monarchy works — folks,
you don't get a vote... this is the MONARCHY.
the uk public don't have any "track record" of voting for prime ministers, as the winners of a parliamentary majority only ever have a clear minority of the vote.
not many flags in my neck of the wood (though the few patriotic houses have made up for this by going completely over the top).
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 June, 2022, 07:19:14 PM
You'd still have those prime ministers even without the monarch, surely?
I meant that if people vote for shitty candidates for PM, then they will also vote for shitty candidates for president. I assume we would be like Ireland and have a prime minister and a president. But we'd end up with Boris and Nigel.
The Mind of Wolfie Smith is right of course. But if we had first last the post for presidential elections, we would still have presidents elected by 30% of the voters, who would usually be Tories.
If played backwards, and this holds true for every year since nineteen and sixty one, the Queen's Christmas Speech comes out as complete gibberish, although the word "Dracula" can clearly be heard in the 1972 recording it occurs inside a longer stream of gobbledygook and is thought by expert backwardologists to be a complete fluke. Fact.*
*This is not a fact.
Quote from: Richard on 04 June, 2022, 09:40:57 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 June, 2022, 07:19:14 PM
You'd still have those prime ministers even without the monarch, surely?
I meant that if people vote for shitty candidates for PM, then they will also vote for shitty candidates for president. I assume we would be like Ireland and have a prime minister and a president. But we'd end up with Boris and Nigel.
The Mind of Wolfie Smith is right of course. But if we had first last the post for presidential elections, we would still have presidents elected by 30% of the voters, who would usually be Tories.
I see what you mean. On the other hand, nobody at all votes the monarch. As I said, Liz seems a fairly decent skin, but if it were Andrew, you'd have Andrew as a ruler and there'd be sweet feck all anyone could do about it until he died.
Presidents don't need to have political power. They can be symbolic heads of state, employed to represent the republic on the world stage and at home, with the right and responsibility to praise or criticise any and all aspects of the republic. That could be King Charlie, Stephen Fry, or anybody else the people decide to elect to the position.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 05 June, 2022, 07:38:14 AM
Presidents don't need to have political power. They can be symbolic heads of state, employed to represent the republic on the world stage and at home, with the right and responsibility to praise or criticise any and all aspects of the republic. That could be King Charlie, Stephen Fry, or anybody else the people decide to elect to the position.
That's the way it's done here - thankfully our president is a decent, scholarly type that most people like.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 June, 2022, 08:55:43 AM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 05 June, 2022, 07:38:14 AM
Presidents don't need to have political power. They can be symbolic heads of state, employed to represent the republic on the world stage and at home, with the right and responsibility to praise or criticise any and all aspects of the republic. That could be King Charlie, Stephen Fry, or anybody else the people decide to elect to the position.
That's the way it's done here - thankfully our president is a decent, scholarly type that most people like.
Higgins is a puppet. Bród agus Misneach are pulling his strings
Quote from: Mister Pops on 05 June, 2022, 10:15:38 AM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 June, 2022, 08:55:43 AM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 05 June, 2022, 07:38:14 AM
Presidents don't need to have political power. They can be symbolic heads of state, employed to represent the republic on the world stage and at home, with the right and responsibility to praise or criticise any and all aspects of the republic. That could be King Charlie, Stephen Fry, or anybody else the people decide to elect to the position.
That's the way it's done here - thankfully our president is a decent, scholarly type that most people like.
Higgins is a puppet. Bród agus Misneach are pulling his strings
That would explain the lack of height.
If the head of state has no political power, does it matter if they are elected or not?
If the president has no power, won't election turnouts be low, since most voters will conclude that it doesn't really matter who wins?
Jayzus makes a fair point about King Andrew. We could introduce impeachment for the monarch.
It depends on what a republic requires its president to do, or if it wants or needs one, what the republic itself stands for and the form it will take. There are many choices available.
Afaik presidential elections here do tend to have a low turnout. I suppose for me, though, it's a question of principle rather than the character of the ruler involved - if someone is going to rule me, even symbolically, I'd prefer they were normal people chosen by other normal people , rather than some kind of suppsedly superior caste member chosen by God or whatever before they're even born.
But that's just me - obviously growing up in a republic is going to bias my view a bit.
Quote from: Richard on 05 June, 2022, 10:38:25 AMIf the president has no power, won't election turnouts be low, since most voters will conclude that it doesn't really matter who wins?
Not necessarily. In 2020, 67% of Icelanders rocked up to vote for their president, to support the incumbent historian over a wanker challenger. The actual turnout was only fractionally lower than the UK's previous
general election.
Headline: 'I am completely besotted with this pigeon' (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-england-nottinghamshire-61707476)
Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away? (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61811157)
If you read the article (about people getting their feet burnt when they ... burnt them) it says "It is not yet clear if there was an issue with the set-up of the coals or with how the group walked across them".
It's hot, you fucking morons! Hot things burn you.
Oh, the humanity...
This is a thing people do and I have done it*. There is a trick to it though. The feet have to be quite warm to reduce the temperature difference. Then you have to walk at quite a brisk pace. The key thing is your feet are not in direct contact with the hot coals longer than the shortest time it takes for the physical process of transferring enough heat from the coal to the flesh to burn the flesh. I think if you take longer than ~3 seconds to cross you'll be burned regardless.
There's a lot of things to go wrong there, could be hard to pinpoint exactly what but...
...it sounds like someone really put their foot in it.
*I have friends in a local circus skills club** who roped me into it.
** This is also a thing people do. Good for a side hustle too, because as Malcolm Tucker put it "... big public events always have wankers wi' stilts". I'm not sure that's an accurate quotation, but I'm not about to google "Wankers with stilts"
Quote from: Funt Solo on 15 June, 2022, 07:20:00 PM
Did IQ's just drop sharply while I was away? (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61811157)
If you read the article (about people getting their feet burnt when they ... burnt them) it says "It is not yet clear if there was an issue with the set-up of the coals or with how the group walked across them".
It's hot, you fucking morons! Hot things burn you.
Oh, the humanity...
I've read that it can be done without burns, and, like every inexplicable feat, can be explicked with physics - the coals are hot but your feet don't spend enough time touching them to get injured. Tony 'I'm an Absolute Muppet of the First Order' Robbins apparently invites his audience to do it at his shit events.
Someone obviously fecked up in fine style here though, either in the heat of the coals or in the instructions to the participants.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 15 June, 2022, 08:50:18 PM
This is a thing people do and I have done it*. There is a trick to it though. The feet have to be quite warm to reduce the temperature difference. Then you have to walk at quite a brisk pace. The key thing is your feet are not in direct contact with the hot coals longer than the shortest time it takes for the physical process of transferring enough heat from the coal to the flesh to burn the flesh. I think if you take longer than ~3 seconds to cross you'll be burned regardless.
There's a lot of things to go wrong there, could be hard to pinpoint exactly what but...
...it sounds like someone really put their foot in it.
*I have friends in a local circus skills club** who roped me into it.
** This is also a thing people do. Good for a side hustle too, because as Malcolm Tucker put it "... big public events always have wankers wi' stilts".
Feck. Beat me to it :)
By like 20 seconds. And on a post an hour and a half old. Weird coincidence that we replied at practically the same time.
I'm glad you both responded because I got to enjoy "explicked with physics" and "Wankers with stilts".
And I got edumacated about the hot coals thing. I'll still never do it, mind.
I should also point out that I have been totally Elevenerife-ed by Mr Pops, who not only has firewalked himself but also ended his post on a splendid little pun.
Given that the European Court of Human Rights has stopped the Tories from enacting their Final Solution to the Brown People Problem, by halting the forced deportation of five people (on board an enormous jumbo jet capable of taking hundreds) to Rwanda.
Those silly Tories. Why don't they just nuke Brussels and strap asylum seekers to the missiles? That would solve both problems in one fell swoop. Where did I leave Rees-Mogg's number ... he'd love this idea.
Well, Johnson did suggest feeding people to the fish to solve the ocean crisis...
Ukraine Unveils Mini Ground Robot Equipped With Machine Gun. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/06/16/ukrainian-combat-robots-join-fight-against-russian-invasion/?sh=771e74493678) What could possibly go wrong...?
:-(
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 22 June, 2022, 06:06:10 PM
Ukraine Unveils Mini Ground Robot Equipped With Machine Gun. (https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidhambling/2022/06/16/ukrainian-combat-robots-join-fight-against-russian-invasion/?sh=771e74493678) What could possibly go wrong...?
:-(
I hear ya. Of course, we're already there with drones - this is just a ground capable thing of a similar nature.
The Chinese regime is using facial recognition and emotion-reading AI to figure out when people are nervous of their totalitarian regime (answer: always, you'd be mad not to be), and then using that data to arrest and enslave people they feel like arresting and enslaving.
How long before they automate the process? How long after that before the machines turn on their makers? Ask Jim Cameron, obs.
It's got a fiber optic wire trailing from its butt. I shouldn't think old Howard's too worried. Might explain some of Hammerstein's more unglamorous Great Gram'ma stories, though.
Now imagining the entire ABC Warriors retold from the perspective of their operators, who are just behind some cover, or just off-panel, a little ways off - just follow the fibreoptic cables. ABC Operators.
As MMO characters, lines like "Nobody honks on an ABC Warrior and lives!" make much more sense.
What's the difference between a children's hospital and a terrorist training camp?
Don't ask me, I just pilot the drones...
After being denied its intended site - by the fecking parish priest from his pulpit among others - a very nice sculpture (with a touch of Hicklenton and O'Neill) finds a home. That first lot didn't deserve it. https://www.thejournal.ie/puca-the-burren-5797347-Jun2022/ (https://www.thejournal.ie/puca-the-burren-5797347-Jun2022/)
Nice sculpt, that!
---
Meanwhile ... Supreme Court ruling expands US gun rights (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-61915237).
Makes me do this in my mind:
(https://www.dccomics.com/sites/default/files/field/image/The%20Killing%20Joke_5eab78fd037d74.97166940.jpg)
By-election results:
Tiverton and Honiton - conservative loss to the Liberal Democrats (first Tory loss since the seat's creation).
Wakefield - conservative loss to Labour (part of the 'red wall' taken by the tories in 2019).
Oliver Dowden, cabinet minister and co-chair of the Conservative Party resigns...
The USA has gone full Gilead. It's fucked as a country, IMO.
Yup. This is only the start. Clarence Thomas has said they'll go after other rights next, including gay marriage.
Definitely a problem when one branch of government (the judicial - Supreme Court) is led by the religious right, the legislative branch struggles to do anything significant due to cemented partisan politics (whereby one side has devolved into open adoption of big lies and conspiracy theories) and the executive branch is under direct threat by Trump's still-active fascist agenda.
---
Nice to see the Tories struggling.
Roe v Wade has been overturned.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-supreme-court-overturns-roe-v-wade-abortion-law/QZKY4ARZ6LXYNTC3XWE3OBBM4U/ (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-supreme-court-overturns-roe-v-wade-abortion-law/QZKY4ARZ6LXYNTC3XWE3OBBM4U/)
And that doesn't look like it will be the end of it -
"Justice Clarence Thomas, part of the majority, called on the court to overturn other high court rulings protecting same-sex marriage, gay sex and the use of contraceptives."
Full on Gilead indeed
As I saw someone observe elsewhere on social media: Clarence Thomas' insistence on referring back to the supposed intent of the original framers' of the Constitution in the 1700s would preclude his seat on the Supreme Court entirely, because he would still be regarded as property, not a person.
I'm genuinely unable to process this.
I hear ya.
All these women cheering in support of having control over their reproductive organs overturned. In a lot of those states, now, if you were raped and impregnated, you'd have to carry the baby to term - and the rapist would have the same rights as any other father. It's seriously fucked up. And it's all being driven by people who believe in a magical sky-being who gets off on child sacrifice scenarios.
Back to laughing like the Joker.
Nationalist-Christians are taking over America.
It's easier if you shorten it to Nat-Cs
Quote from: Mister Pops on 24 June, 2022, 11:51:52 PM
Nationalist-Christians are taking over America.
It's easier if you shorten it to Nat-Cs
Nicely done. The majority of the American people support abortion rights. But never mind that - the Land of the Free doesn't work that way any more. As the Exploited once said, fuck the USA.
or, ifwhiteamericatoldthetruthforonedayitsworldwouldfallapart, as the manics had it.
I don't think those French fellas over at Libération magazine approve of recent developments
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FWCU112X0AAkLDj.jpg)
Very grim, but all too accurate.
Not in the same league but might lighten up proceedings
https://youtu.be/dpITyDIIz_k?t=132
Perhaps we need a thread called " This is NOT the news!"
The Johnson story which broke in Private Eye this week is not being covered anywhere by any of the mainstream media this week.
That something like this - grossly inappropriate behaviour in office + attempted corruption is not out there on every front page is... a staggering level of censorship and quite frightening.
It's also entirely unsubstantiated - When did this happen? Who was the unnamed MP who witnessed it? What's the source of this story? - hence why it's so far one scurrilous paragraph in a Private Eye story, rather than national news.
Not running an unproven story that's completely libellous if untrue isn't censorship.
To be fair it has been widely covered albeit not quite the same way Private Eye has. The Times and Mail managed to get themselves plastered all over the news for running part of the story about Johnson and Symonds at the FCO. Then they both withdrew the story from later editions / web editions. The result was that far wider coverage was given to the story.
Of course the latest rumour around Johnson is that he has allegedly impregnated his hairdresser. Needless to say this is totally unsubstantiated and significantly lacking in credibility (Johnson .... hairdresser ...) but does turn up if you do a Google search.
8-/
Quote from: Tjm86 on 02 July, 2022, 11:18:58 AM
Of course the latest rumour around Johnson is that he has allegedly impregnated his hairdresser.
I find it very hard to believe that Boris Johnson has a hairdresser.
As Tjm says, at least part of that story did appear in newspapers last weekend but the story was swiftly pulled from the digital editions.
Even leaving aside the inappropriate angle, the facts that:
* Johnson tried to get his mistress a well-paid job she was completely unqualified for - not the first time he's done this, the only difference being this time he was blocked.
and
* the newspapers didn't just stop the story but actually erased it from digital editions
Both of these being, to my mind, very serious and worthy of follow-up.
As to the veracity of Private Eye. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't imagine the magazine risking a lawsuit on mere gossip. I'd also say that as for their journalism goes, they have a history of covering important stories which nobody else has touched - the Post Office scandal being one.
QuoteAs to the veracity of Private Eye. Maybe I'm wrong but I can't imagine the magazine risking a lawsuit on mere gossip.
The briefest familiarity with the history of PI very much says otherwise.
In yet more tragic US Supreme Court news, they've now seriously curtailed Biden's efforts to reduce carbon emissions. Fucking pig-ignorant neanderthals.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 02 July, 2022, 12:01:36 PM
Quote from: Tjm86 on 02 July, 2022, 11:18:58 AM
Of course the latest rumour around Johnson is that he has allegedly impregnated his hairdresser.
I find it very hard to believe that Boris Johnson has a hairdresser.
That seems to be the general consensus in the Twittersphere.
FYI: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Eye#Litigation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Eye#Litigation)
Quote from: Tjm86 on 02 July, 2022, 04:24:22 PM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 02 July, 2022, 12:01:36 PM
Quote from: Tjm86 on 02 July, 2022, 11:18:58 AM
Of course the latest rumour around Johnson is that he has allegedly impregnated his hairdresser.
I find it very hard to believe that Boris Johnson has a hairdresser.
That seems to be the general consensus in the Twittersphere.
Given his track record of hiring and surrounding himself with completely inept sycophants, his hair "style" is completely consistent with the quality of skills and diligence he values.
C'blimey - Sunak and Javid have quit the cabinet! That's some big names.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 05 July, 2022, 06:54:28 PM
C'blimey - Sunak and Javid have quit the cabinet! That's some big names.
Just clocked that a minute ago. I would say a GE is on the cards, but Johnson seems to have an infinite supply of last straws.
There won't be an election because the Tories know they would lose. They'll just hang on and hope that the next PM can turn it around.
Hobson's choice:
- the Tories limp on under Johnson, digging themselves further into the mire and teaching two generations what it is like to live under their governance thus guaranteeing their future eradication but at the cost of the potential damage wrought in the process:
- Johnson and his minions are ejected from the party, sparing the nation the damage they might cause but at the cost of giving some degree of credibility to a party that is justifiably named ("Toraidhe" - plunderer / thief (thanks to our Emerald cousins)).
Personally I'd rather the first choice. This is the third Tory government I've lived through (not counting New Labour) and by far the worst. The thought of the next generation of Tories taking lessons from this crowd fills me with utter dread.
an election may well be the only possible way that de pfeffel can survive. and that - his own survival - is clearly more important to him than his party, his colleagues, the country, anything or anyone else. so don't discount it.
"f*** business," he once said.
"you don't care for anything," his own wife told him in 2020.
and there are, remarkably, countless other examples.
yegods. pm truss?
Quote from: Tjm86 on 05 July, 2022, 07:37:45 PM
("Toraidhe" - plunderer / thief (thanks to our Emerald cousins)).
Well, I never knew that, and I'm an emerald cousin. Well, half-cousin, I suppose, my mam came here from Lancashire.
Which is why the Fomorians came from Tory Island, I would imagine.
Those resignation letters are brutal!
We're up to ten resignations of ministers, party officials and PPSs (possibly more in the half an hour since I last checked), plus Lord Frost, chief Brexit 'negotiator' sticking the knife in on Twitter (and saying he'll have more to say in a Telegraph column tomorrow). Plus MP Andrew Bridgen saying he'll be talking to the 1922 committee about changing the rules on no confidence votes.
Given that Johnson has already announced replacements for most of the resignees, it's clear that they'll have to drag him out of No 10 kicking and screaming.
Which is fine with me.
I'm hoping that Gove, Patel and the J-Dogg will have their reputations tarnished for a long time to come for sticking with the Clown Prince. As for Dorries, it's hard to imagine her looking even more ridiculous than she already does.
Who will replace him?
I suppose that's up to Putin
At the moment it seems like Grant "Confidence Trickster" Schapps, Brandon Lewis and Nadhim Zahawi have been tasked with actually dragging Boris out of Number 10.
does johnson age in real time?
it's just that he seems to have aged spectacularly today.
and are the clones ready?
Quote from: Funt Solo on 06 July, 2022, 06:40:01 PM
At the moment it seems like Grant "Confidence Trickster" Schapps, Brandon Lewis and Nadhim Zahawi have been tasked with actually dragging Boris out of Number 10.
Although they're going to have get through his Pretorian Guard (Adolfo Rees-Mogg & Nadine Dumass) first. I'm imagining scenes (https://youtu.be/KY5Ug1OW5O4)...
Over 30 ministerial resignations, committee meetings being cancelled due to a lack of ministerial representation, delegation of cabinet members in Downing street telling Johnson he must go and Johnson apparently telling them he's going nowhere ...
It would be mildly amusing if this were some sort of comedy drama. The fact that this is our current government is nothing short of terrifying. 8-0
priti patel has told bojo to go.
this is like sinfield telling you that he's had enough of your dishonesty and duplicity.
Boris's mandate arguemtn is such nonsense - what people thoguht about him 3 years ago before he proved his critics right is not really relevant to what the here andd now is
It's like finding the Bank Manager had been embezzling funds, but going "yeah, but his job interview was amazing, best we ever had"
yep.
and now he's sacked gove. this is better than shakespeare:
'you cannot have a snake who is not with you on any of the big arguments who then gleefully briefs the press that he has called for the leader to go.'
He seems to have forgotten the mandate was for Tories, not for him personally. Not surprising as he 'forgot' one of his toadies was a sex offender.
As I type, hearing he's agreed to resign if he can stay on till the Autumn...
I don't think they'll let him stay on. It would be carnage every time he was interviewed or stood at the dispatch box.
I have been offering my opinion on this news to my neighbours via the medium of Julian Cope. (https://youtu.be/16d2aK__UIc)
(Note: link is appropriate, but somewhat NSFW.)
He's appointing a new cabinet even as the podium is being set up for his speech. Still not 100% convinced he'll actually resign - it's not like he's ever lied about stuff before after all.
The resignation has been confirmed. Though Johnson might remain PM for a few more months. Leave means leave!
I feels a bit overly cynical to be thinking along these lines, but he didn't even resign in that speech. Just said the Tories wanted a new leader and he'll hang around until that happens. Then a little victory lap of his 'achievements' without a shred of contrition, acknowledgement that he had done anything wrong, or apology.
I reckon he thinks he's just bought himself an extra three months.
excepting major and brown (who did some terrible political things but at least had shreds of humanity and empathy about them), every pm from thatch onwards has usurped the title from their predecessor of 'worst pm ever'. there are no no depths to which we won't venture. and whoever comes next will probably be even worse - eg steve baker (evangelical anti-green and self-styled 'hard man of brexit') has already thrown his hat in the ring ...
Listening to Johnathan Pie ranting (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKrLBPmRsrM&t=6s) is like going on a massive bender. As much as you might enjoy it at the time, it's not something you would recommend, and after it's over, on sober reflection, it's not something you're in a hurry to do again.
Cathy Newman: "Tell us one interesting thing about you?"
Kier Starmer: "I used to have violin lessons with Fat Boy Slim."
Got to give him that one.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 11 July, 2022, 11:00:06 PM
Cathy Newman: "Tell us one interesting thing about you?"
Kier Starmer: "I used to have violin lessons with Fat Boy Slim."
Got to give him that one.
Fair enough, but I don't want an
interesting prime minister*, I want a
competent one. Boris is so incompetent he can't even resign properly.
*I'd prefer a boring nepotistic Taoiseach. Tiocfaidh ar la and all that.
Quote from: Mister Pops on 12 July, 2022, 12:29:53 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 11 July, 2022, 11:00:06 PM
Cathy Newman: "Tell us one interesting thing about you?"
Kier Starmer: "I used to have violin lessons with Fat Boy Slim."
Got to give him that one.
Fair enough, but I don't want an interesting prime minister*, I want a competent one. Boris is so incompetent he can't even resign properly.
*I'd prefer a boring nepotistic Taoiseach. Tiocfaidh ar la and all that.
He made exactly that point himself, earlier in the interview - the final question was more of a "funny animal story at the end" bit.
Full clip is: https://www.channel4.com/news/country-needs-new-government-not-new-tory-leader-says-starmer (https://www.channel4.com/news/country-needs-new-government-not-new-tory-leader-says-starmer)
Quote from: Mister Pops on 12 July, 2022, 12:29:53 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 11 July, 2022, 11:00:06 PM
Cathy Newman: "Tell us one interesting thing about you?"
Kier Starmer: "I used to have violin lessons with Fat Boy Slim."
Got to give him that one.
Fair enough, but I don't want an interesting prime minister*, I want a competent one. Boris is so incompetent he can't even resign properly.
*I'd prefer a boring nepotistic Taoiseach. Tiocfaidh ar la and all that.
Be careful what you wish for. Not all taoiseachs were boring - Haughey and Bertie* were larger- than-life types, and both were as bent as nine-bob notes.
*See, we had a corrupt first-name-terms prime minister before you.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 12 July, 2022, 03:40:37 PM
Be careful what you wish for. Not all taoiseachs were boring - Haughey and Bertie* were larger- than-life types, and both were as bent as nine-bob notes.
*See, we had a corrupt first-name-terms prime minister before you.
Did we ever find out if Ted (Heath) really was a paedophile? Last I remember was the Met saying that if Ted was still alive then they'd have interviewed them, but as they died about ten years earlier they were shelving the case.
If it was part of that massive investigation into lots of alleged pedos based on the allegations of one man who the police claimed was credible, only to be subsequently proved to have been lying all along, then no he wasn't. If it was something separate then I haven't heard about it.
Edit: found this: https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/aug/02/police-chief-who-led-inquiry-into-ted-heath-faces-gross-misconduct-proceedings
Also https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/jul/22/how-nick-the-serial-child-abuse-accuser-became-the-accused
As utterly fucked as we may all be UK side, the States will always be somehow even more deranged when they have congress folk advocating for prolicide in the name of pro-gun culture. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/arizona-debbie-lesko-gun-rights-grandchildren-b2117651.html)
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 13 July, 2022, 01:52:24 PM
As utterly fucked as we may all be UK side, the States will always be somehow even more deranged when they have congress folk advocating for prolicide in the name of pro-gun culture. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/arizona-debbie-lesko-gun-rights-grandchildren-b2117651.html)
"From their cold, dead hands..."
Clearly taking a leaf out of the Magda Goebbels playbook, there. Just in case anyone's in any doubt as to the direction of the conservative, religious right in the US - they want to murder a lot of people and label it as "justice" or "God's will". Bunch of dangerous fuckers, right there.
---
Meanwhile, in the UK: "Who Dares Plant Weapons on Afghan Civilians and Then Murder Them?" It's your friendly neighborhood SAS, backed up by their commanders, the MOD, the Tories...
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 July, 2022, 05:23:51 PM
Meanwhile, in the UK: "Who Dares Plant Weapons on Afghan Civilians and Then Murder Them?" It's your friendly neighborhood SAS, backed up by their commanders, the MOD, the Tories...
Just been catching up on this - truly dreadful.
My guess is the Tories will play the system to make sure Rishi gets through with Liz Truss to see off the threat of Penny Mordaunt, who would be the biggest threat to Starmer, but is also the "slightly" more moderate of the top three
She's no more moderate, having just thrown trans people under the bus. She has no principles and – like Truss – would be continuity Johnson in that regard. The danger is she's a much better liar than Johnson and at least appears to have convictions. My guess is she will win.
Of course, given how much the Tories pray at the altar of FPTP (and have fought to scrap multi-round voting for mayoral elections), Sunak should already be PM today. But what's forced on everyone else is somehow not good enough for the Tories. Again.
she's truly terrible.
the sad fact is, though, that she is by far the least terrible in this hard right freak show. she's a good performer too, though (of course this shouldn't matter but it does) - and so she will surely wipe the floor with starmer (unfortunately, she will also be able to go on and on about having been in the navy and having worked in romanian orphanages, while debating a grey knight who oversaw the cps becoming the travesty that it is today).
don't get me wrong. i can't stand her, but have you heard what the others are saying and promising?
She keeps going on about her Navy service but she was a reservist and hasn't been actively involved in several years now. Trying to find out what role she served in seems to be a bit of a challenge too. Closest I've been able to get is that she was stationed at HMS King Alfred in Portsmouth and has only ever been shore based.
The coyness is a little unusual in a politician. Normally they like to blow their trumpet as loudly as possible. There's a rather interesting little article from Portsmouth News that manages to conflate her time in the Defense role with her reservist service to give the impression that she has been actively involved in training Ukrainians.
As for the rest of the field ... oh f***!
Meanwhile, Fucker Carlson is hungrily swallowing the idea that Johnson was ousted for becoming 'woke' (whatever the shitting hell that's supposed to mean this week). AAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tucker-carlson-fox-boris-johnson-resignation-b2122367.html (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/tucker-carlson-fox-boris-johnson-resignation-b2122367.html)
so it's sunak v truss.
eat-out-to-help-out-and-die v stop-eating-french-cheese
ffs.
heaven help us all.
It'll almost certainly be Truss. Which is simultaneously hilarious and horrifying — she's as unprincipled as Johnson, equally prepared to tell flat-out lies for even momentary political advantage, but with the added wrinkle that she's unbelievably fucking stupid, she makes Dominic Raab look like an intellectual.
The Tories might actually have done it, they may have found someone who'll be an even worse PM than Johnson, who took the "Worst PM in living memory" title from Theresa May, who in turn took it from David Cameron.
I suppose you have to admire their consistency...
Matter of interest, why do you think the party faithful will pick Truss over Sunak? Whether they want to admit it or not, as there are no white male candidates I'd imagine they're torn between voting non-male or non-white...
Quote from: sheridan on 20 July, 2022, 04:21:07 PM
Matter of interest, why do you think the party faithful will pick Truss over Sunak? Whether they want to admit it or not, as there are no white male candidates I'd imagine they're torn between voting non-male or non-white...
I believe the opinion polling of Conservative members shows Truss at a substantial advantage over Sunak. Whether that's because they think's Sunak's damaged goods, they don't forgive him for being one of the primary movers in expelling Johnson, or they just straight-up don't want to vote for a brown person, I have no idea. Probably a mix of all three, TBH.
I must admit I thought Truss would be laughed out of the hustings early doors by the other MPs, virtue of a combination of her essentially being the Johnson-continuity candidate, being backed by known clowns like Dorres and Rees-Mogg, and being so incredibly stupid. Jim sums her up well in the post above and the fact that she's now likely to be our next PM is terrifying.
On the plus side, she's a charisma vacumn so I fancy her to lose the next election.
Quote from: sheridan on 20 July, 2022, 04:21:07 PM
Matter of interest, why do you think the party faithful will pick Truss over Sunak?
It's not a cert, but Sunak has been hammered by the Johnson-loyalist press who seem to think it's all his fault. Looking at the way the negative press tanked Mordaunt's prospects in opinion polls, dropping her from front-runner to also ran in the minds of the Tory faithful, it looks good for her.
I'm pretty sure the racism thing comes into it too.
Most Tories, I expect, would like a bit of a dullard in charge (see as evidence: Boris) - all the better to manipulate.
It baffles me why people put up with it.
Standing by this and my original beleif we are looking at Truss - should have bet on it, as its the only money I'm likely to make out of her Premiership.
Quote from: Leigh S on 13 July, 2022, 11:13:25 PM
My guess is the Tories will play the system to make sure Rishi gets through with Liz Truss to see off the threat of Penny Mordaunt, who would be the biggest threat to Starmer, but is also the "slightly" more moderate of the top three
i agree with cummings (a novel experience!) that johnson wants truss to win, confident that she's so mad that it will all end in tears - and then the racist buffoon will be back. "hasta la vista" as he signed off today. he will be back. trump style.
also, amazing that the tories always choose the worst possible leader and yet they still keep winning and ruling.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 20 July, 2022, 04:52:10 PM
It baffles me why people put up with it.
The alternatives are bloody revolution or moving to another country. At this point, honestly, I'm open to either.
I hear you can 3D print guillotines these days.
While I don't think there's ever been a truly bloodless revolution, there have been a few with minimal violence. Gandhi had a decent stab at it (no pun intended), for example, and there have been others - indeed, most general elections are bloodless (if largely artificial) revolutions.
I've said it before; the only revolution worth a damn is a revolution of the mind. I believe we must begin with questions such as, are these people really the best we have to offer, and is the system that keeps them in power truly the best we can come up with?
Most of us, I believe, are pretty on-board with the wisdom of separation of church and state - is it now time to start thinking about the separation of party and state?
become a republic and we will merely elect a president farage.
there is no hope.
There. Is. Always. Hope.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 20 July, 2022, 09:00:11 PM
general elections are bloodless (if largely artificial) revolutions.
We had a genuine opportunity to break the neoliberal consensus at the 2017 general election. The just-published (and previously leaked) Forde report shows quite clearly that the establishment will allow no such thing to happen.
It's depressing as fuck.
I like how the BBC are reporting the Forde Report as "both sides" being toxic, rather than what it actually says which is that the Right of the Party launched an all out war on Democracy, both within the Party and without.
Quote from: Leigh S on 20 July, 2022, 10:52:05 PM
I like how the BBC are reporting the Forde Report as "both sides" being toxic, rather than what it actually says which is that the Right of the Party launched an all out war on Democracy, both within the Party and without.
The Guardian, ostensibly one of the two remaining papers of the 'left', both-sides-ing this one, too.
There is no objective truth any more.
It's very weird how things are and how they've gone. And I'd sooner have had "chaos with Ed Miliband" or Corbyn as PM (presumably aided heavily by McDonnell).
Mind you, even in 2017, we still got a bizarre end point that was supported in structural terms by the biggest loser. Had Corbyn not been vilified by the press, I don't imagine Labour's polling would have gone up that much. It's reasonably likely the Libs would have grabbed more votes and the Tories would have dropped. (Many Con/Lib fence sitters at the time said as much.) So we'd have had another majority govt on around 40–43% of the vote. And Corbyn said multiple times he had no interest in reforming the Commons – one of the few things he has in common with Starmer. (He did want to reform the Lords, notably. Why? Because PR there would increase Labour's seats share.)
I've accused Blair of the same in the past, and that appears to be his current position, bizarrely. But reports that have come to light suggest 1997 and beyond was a bit more complex than widely acknowledged. It seems for some time, he tried to do something with the Libs, but a few heavyweights in his cabinet said they'd quit if he did. Frankly, he should have told them to go fuck themselves, but, well, politics.
Ultimately, everything now is just fiddling with the edges unless we can get PR. At that point, Labour will form the core of most governments, but with greater impact from liberalism (Lib Dems, who'd likely end up on 30–60 seats during the first PR election) and equality/green issue (Greens, who'd probably get 5–20 seats). We could have collaborative, consensus-driven politics that is broadly progressive (vs regressive Tory leadership being the default). But the big two have no interest in that. It's all or nothing. The problem for Labour is that more often or not for them, it really is nothing. And they then, post-election, blame voters rather than decisions they've made themselves when they did have power.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 21 July, 2022, 08:58:54 AM
Had Corbyn not been vilified by the press, I don't imagine Labour's polling would have gone up that much.
It wasn't the polling, or even the press, that tipped 2017 — either of those factors could have helped, but the fact remains that Blairite-controlled party management actively sabotaged the Labour campaign. They abandoned winnable marginals and poured resources into safe seats held by 'their' candidates with the intention of staging an electoral disaster that would see the centrist/Labour right MPs retaining their seats while anyone to the left would be out.
(There was open talk of changing the access codes to the party HQ the day after the election, to provide the press with images of the electorally-destroyed Corbyn standing on the doorstep of his own party's building, unable to get in. Obviously, it didn't quite go to plan, as the reactions of centrist Labour MPs on election night clearly showed. They tried much harder in 2019.)
Less than 3,000 extra votes spread across Labour's most winnable marginals would have seen enough gains to have made it mathematically impossible for May to have formed a government.
Whilst that's always going to be a "What If?" scenario, it's a tiny number of votes that seems easily achievable if the party management had actually staged effective campaigns in those seats. It's not like the party was short of resources, they just chose to throw the election instead, to reinforce the centrist narrative that "Labour cannot win from the left."
On a brighter, slightly-Slaine-related note, and for those with a particular interest in archaeology - I'm thinking of you, Tordels, if you're reading this, mate (hope to see you gracing the Tooth forum again some day soon, and that you are keeping well) - comes news of a recent fascinating discovery, here in the Emerald Isle.
https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dublin/fingal/ancient-lost-chamber-uncovered-on-corballis-site-in-donabate-41854332.html
Bejaysus! Donabate was the last place I lived in before I moved to the sadly-deceased boat.
On a related but sadder note, there was a similar underground passageway just outside the town where I grew up. There was no sign or anything to note its existence, and you could go down into it and look at ancient carvings on the stones. The fecking farmer eventually considered it an inconvenience and filled it in with rocks. I don't know if it was an illegal act of vandalism at the time or not, but I'm pretty sure nothing ever happened to him because of it.
Here we go again... WHO Director-General's statement at the press conference following IHR Emergency Committee regarding the multi-country outbreak of monkeypox - 23 July 2022 (https://www.who.int/director-general/speeches/detail/who-director-general-s-statement-on-the-press-conference-following-IHR-emergency-committee-regarding-the-multi--country-outbreak-of-monkeypox--23-july-2022).
Again, and again (that's evolution for ya): Wikipedia: List of epidemics (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics)
The BBC's choice of images is blowing my mind a little today:
(https://i.imgur.com/T6LmxC2.png)
(https://i.imgur.com/30UYIGE.png)
Seems like Steve Bannon is heading for the slammer, and Alex Jones is about to lose a whole lot of money. It's not all bad news this week.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 25 July, 2022, 10:06:41 PM
Seems like Steve Bannon is heading for the slammer, and Alex Jones is about to lose a whole lot of money. It's not all bad news this week.
I wish there was better news than this to celebrate, but I'll take it. Two of the most detestable humans I've ever seen.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 25 July, 2022, 10:06:41 PM
Alex Jones is about to lose a whole lot of money.
Jones is an absolutely terrible presenter in an absolute dog turd of a show. But doubtless the BBC will keep paying her far too much for THE ONE SHOW for this to matter.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 26 July, 2022, 02:34:33 PM
Jones is an absolutely terrible presenter in an absolute dog turd of a show. But doubtless the BBC will keep paying her far too much for THE ONE SHOW for this to matter.
Apologies if the above was intended humorously, but (for clarity) I suspect JBC was referring to this Alex Jones. (https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2022/07/25/sandy-hook-defamation-case-alex-jones-trial/10143186002/)
It was. Even if nobody else finds it funny, it amuses me no end that they have the same name.
Not enough gay frog reporting in our national brosdcasting house.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 26 July, 2022, 02:55:17 PM
It was. Even if nobody else finds it funny, it amuses me no end that they have the same name.
Apologies again, then!
No, no, Tips had it right. I just don't think Welsh people should be presenting any kind of Show, let alone The One. I've lived over there. I know what they're like.
(Of course I'm joking. I was referring to the story Jim linked to.)
I see a Labour Shadow Minister has been sacked for attending a Picket Line. Glad in one way that Starmer is making my decision to leave the Party justified so quickly.
Listening to his interview (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-62325842), I'd rather Sam Tarry (as Labour leader) than Kier "Neutered" Starmer. Strikes are a negotiation tool which, in my experience, help maintain a necessary balance between workers' rights and employers' desire for profit. Without unions, and without a union's ability to take strike action, you're left with a poorly paid workforce who struggle to make a living wage.
I am surprised that Starmer is so weak as to back the Tories' stance of undermining the unions. I suppose he thinks that the only way to power is to become a New Tory. (Blair did it with New Labour - Starmer is trying to go even further.) For shame!
Congratulations to the England women's team for their 2-1 win in the Euro final against Germany*!
---
In other news: Labour Shadow Minister sacked for admitting he is left-handed (https://newsthump.com/2022/07/29/labour-shadow-minister-sacked-for-admitting-he-is-left-handed/)
* I'm not sure why it's "Anyone But England", but that definitely still stands for male soccer. For the best reasoning you're going to get, please see any episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 27 July, 2022, 06:34:07 PM
I am surprised that Starmer is so weak as to back the Tories' stance of undermining the unions. I suppose he thinks that the only way to power is to become a New Tory. (Blair did it with New Labour - Starmer is trying to go even further.) For shame!
Yep. Keep in mind that in the leadership contest that got Corbyn elected,
every other candidate was positioning themselves at least as right-wing as the Tories, with several of them promising to be harsher on curbing benefits and implementing austerity measures than the incumbent Conservative chancellor.
The Blairite wing were genuinely surprised when the membership responded with a comprehensive "fuck that" so they spent four years working tirelessly to prevent their own party's electoral success, simply to 'prove' that it was impossible to win from the left. Having finally disposed of Corbyn, it's back to business-as-usual circa 2015, aided by the current drive to get rid of anyone to the left of a Liberal Democrat.
(Party members are being purged for offences as terrible as retweeting something originally tweeted by a Green Party member, whilst party procedures are being deployed in
highly suspicious ways to engineer the deselection of 'troublesome' left-wing MPs.)
I saw an interview with Mick Lynch (https://youtu.be/AYSiND5FVNg) where he was asked what Starmer's values were and he replied "to not say anything controversial".
Quote from: Funt Solo on 01 August, 2022, 07:29:39 AM
I saw an interview with Mick Lynch (https://youtu.be/AYSiND5FVNg) where he was asked what Starmer's values were and he replied "to not say anything controversial".
Mick Lynch is great. Have you seen the one where he says he'd be prepared to consider trial by combat with Grant Shapps as a possible means to resolve the dispute...?
Quote from: Leigh S on 27 July, 2022, 05:38:26 PM
I see a Labour Shadow Minister has been sacked for attending a Picket Line. Glad in one way that Starmer is making my decision to leave the Party justified so quickly.
I presume you read that in the Tory media? Seeing as other Labour MPs have attended picket lines and not been sacked...
so. actually sacked for veering off officially approved message in a tv interview - "making policy on the hoof".
like starmer when he suddenly promised a second referendum mid-speech at the labour conference a few years ago.
the shameless hypocrisy at the top of this supposedly workers' party now.
He's also ruled out any cooperation with any other party after a GE. So we're back to Labour daring others to not fully back them without getting anything in return. (And may well end up post-GE end up with the Tories in power and Labour screaming at LD/Green voters for not voting Labour, despite stating repeatedly that the leadership will not back proportional representation and a representative parliament. Even if not then, it'd happen within a term or three.)
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 01 August, 2022, 11:17:21 AM
He's also ruled out any cooperation with any other party after a GE.
I'm not, by any stretch of the imagination, a fan of Starmer, but I don't see what any Labour leader could say on this particular issue, given the ferocity with which the Tories and the right-wing media pushed on the "Vote-Whatever-Get-A-Labour-Government" and "Vote-Labour-Get-A-Whatever-Government" in the past, mainly to try and keep wavering Tories in line.
There's no way Labour would allow a minority Conservative government to form if the only way to stop it was some kind of arrangement with the LibDems and/or SNP, however loose or informal.
Like with Brexit, he's driven himself into a corner. So if Labour gets in and he does more with the EU, he'll be branded a liar and a traitor. But if he sticks to his guns, he'll be branded a liar and ineffective. It's the same here. I'm not suggesting he cuddles up to the Lib Dems, but to rule out any cooperation after an election is deeply frustrating, because it suggests the UK cannot move on and embrace a remotely moderate democracy.
Perhaps it doesn't matter. Perhaps Starmer would see sense after a GE. I dunno. But when Labour voters, most Labour MPs, and even now most unions are in favour of PR, the Labour leadership shifting from cool to anti seems a strange trend. (My take: Labour could, if it so chose, push a line about voting fairness, and note that we should have a parliament – parliaments, even – that represents the vote itself. This shouldn't be a top-tier policy, but it should exist. Instead, it's the same old us vs them bullshit, with his team hoping they'll win a majority on 35–40% and do whatever they hell they like for five years, but always with an eye on regressive voters. If we had PR, chances are Labour would be in power more often than not, albeit as a reduced group.)
The difficulty with introducing PR is that we had a referendum about it only 11 years ago and people voted to keep FPTP. Politically it's hard to justify overturning a referendum result without another referendum (which might just go the same way as the first one).
We never had a referendum on PR. We had a referendum on AV, another majoritarian system, with the leading party being vehemently against it and lying through their teeth.
PR should be something passed through primary legislation, not a referendum, on the basis of making votes fair and parliament more representative of the vote. It's absurd we still exist in a country where as few as a third of voters backing a party can give said party a working majority. And everyone left of the Tories should recognise that. It's insane that Labour leadership – all flavours, bar, for a very short period, Blair – have not and still do not.
Maybe Labour think it benefits them, because when they win they have a majority instead of having to form a coalition? And when they don't win, that's fine too, because they secretly prefer being in opposition.
It's very odd. The party leadership would clearly rather it be the biggest loser most of the time (and achieve nothing), because it can occasionally run the show, rather than lead a coalition most of the time. (Despite what people might think of the Lib Dems, they since their foundation have more often mapped with the centre to right of Labour than the Tories on economics, although – like the Greens – they are far less authoritarian than either big party, which causes friction. Even so, I imagine Lab/Lib would work pretty well. And besides, we should have a system where our parliament resembles what we vote for. It's absurd that it doesn't.)
https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/movies/batgirl-directors-say-are-saddened-movie-shelved-rcna41432
1. MARTIN SCORSESE: Superhero films aren't cinema, they're a film-like product released by studios who don't really care anymore.
FANS: Fuuck yooou.
2. WARNER BROS: Under U.S. tax laws, it would make us more money to shelve 'Batgirl' forever than release it.
FANS: Wait a second.
Warner Bros now have the chance to release a director's cut with the most deleted scenes ever.
The FBI raided Trump's home in Florida to execute a search warrant and opened his safe.
Quote from: Richard on 09 August, 2022, 12:09:55 PM
The FBI raided Trump's home in Florida to execute a search warrant and opened his safe.
I have a nasty feeling that, short of a prison conviction prior to the 2024 election, this is going to be a massive boost for him, sadly. He'll play the martyr card successfully as he's always done.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 09 August, 2022, 09:09:42 PM
Quote from: Richard on 09 August, 2022, 12:09:55 PM
The FBI raided Trump's home in Florida to execute a search warrant and opened his safe.
I have a nasty feeling that, short of a prison conviction prior to the 2024 election, this is going to be a massive boost for him, sadly. He'll play the martyr card successfully as he's always done.
I think/hope that with Murdoch turning on him, he's done for. Of course, with DeSantis in the wings to take up the throne of most despicable Republican/human, I'm in two minds whether this is a good thing.
Quote from: wedgeski on 10 August, 2022, 09:08:56 AM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 09 August, 2022, 09:09:42 PM
Quote from: Richard on 09 August, 2022, 12:09:55 PM
The FBI raided Trump's home in Florida to execute a search warrant and opened his safe.
I have a nasty feeling that, short of a prison conviction prior to the 2024 election, this is going to be a massive boost for him, sadly. He'll play the martyr card successfully as he's always done.
I think/hope that with Murdoch turning on him, he's done for. Of course, with DeSantis in the wings to take up the throne of most despicable Republican/human, I'm in two minds whether this is a good thing.
Director of the FBI appointed by Trump himself, amusingly!
Quote from: wedgeski on 10 August, 2022, 09:08:56 AMI think/hope that with Murdoch turning on him, he's done for. Of course, with DeSantis in the wings to take up the throne of most despicable Republican/human, I'm in two minds whether this is a good thing.
Turns out, the right can get worse, in one of two ways: we either get someone who's equally awful but genuinely believes that shit and is potentially competent (USA) or someone who's equally awful but arguably dumber and seemingly far more rigid in their beliefs (UK).
Meanwhile, the centre and left continue to take chunks out of each other in both countries, talking to themselves and performing risky triangulation that is set to fail (USA) and probably has a 50:50 chance of failure, and a close to 100% chance of failing within a few terms (UK).
I can't help thinking that the 'greatest witch-hunt in US history' was the Salem witch trials.
It feels very hypocritical coming from a man who hounded his predecessor for evidence of his birth place and built a his campaign on "her emails". Pot meet kettle.
Quote from: sheridan on 10 August, 2022, 09:13:18 AM
Director of the FBI appointed by Trump himself, amusingly!
And Trump also signed into law the bill that made stealing classified documents a felony.
Well, London Bridge is looking a bit shaky...
Quote from: sheridan on 08 September, 2022, 02:49:23 PM
Well, London Bridge is looking a bit shaky...
It's swaying like Galloping Gertie ...
She was fine before she shook Liz Truss's hand the other day. Reminds me of this scene from 24:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0a9qmc9ju4U
Quote from: Richard on 08 September, 2022, 04:23:11 PM
She was fine before she shook Liz Truss's hand the other day. Reminds me of this scene from 24:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0a9qmc9ju4U
Are you saying that Truss is a deep plant Republican and needed to become PM to get close to the Queen?
definitely sounds like a 24 plot
Actually, turns out it's only Operation London Bridge if Liz is in London when it happens - it's Operation Unicorn in Scotland...
Either way Operation Spring Tide would also run concurrently.
Donlt forget Boris "I shake hands with Covid patients and attend KGB parties" was also there...
Quote from: Trooper McFad on 08 September, 2022, 04:35:12 PM
Quote from: Richard on 08 September, 2022, 04:23:11 PM
She was fine before she shook Liz Truss's hand the other day. Reminds me of this scene from 24:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0a9qmc9ju4U
Are you saying that Truss is a deep plant Republican and needed to become PM to get close to the Queen?
definitely sounds like a 24 plot
Quote from: Leigh S on 08 September, 2022, 05:04:15 PM
Donlt forget Boris "I shake hands with Covid patients and attend KGB parties" was also there...
Quote from: Trooper McFad on 08 September, 2022, 04:35:12 PM
Quote from: Richard on 08 September, 2022, 04:23:11 PM
She was fine before she shook Liz Truss's hand the other day. Reminds me of this scene from 24:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0a9qmc9ju4U
Are you saying that Truss is a deep plant Republican and needed to become PM to get close to the Queen?
definitely sounds like a 24 plot
Ooooh forgot about him that's more of a 24 plot line.
Scorned leader out for revenge
Quote from: Trooper McFad on 08 September, 2022, 05:36:37 PM
Ooooh forgot about him that's more of a 24 plot line.
Scorned leader out for revenge
Or bumbling incompetent who ends up killing the queen by accident. More Johnny English than 24.
I was confused as to what "Queen Consort" meant, so I looked up the words:
Queen: behave in an unpleasantly superior way toward (someone)
Consort: habitually associate with (someone), typically with the disapproval of others
Well, that's cleared that up.
Heh.
Mind you, she can't be much worse than Phil the bigmouthed bigot. So, do all coins, noted and stamps from now on get Charlie's big face on them?
Probably. They'll also have to change portraits in official offices, pillar boxes and those fancy costumes some officials wear. I'm sure Charlie won't mind covering the enormous cost out of his own pocket...
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 September, 2022, 10:22:59 AM
Probably. They'll also have to change portraits in official offices, pillar boxes and those fancy costumes some officials wear. I'm sure Charlie won't mind covering the enormous cost out of his own pocket...
The money out of his pocket is still your money. Well, maybe not you in particular, but you get my point.
Aye, aye, fair point. Still, just once it might be nice for them to use money they've already stolen instead of stealing afresh.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 September, 2022, 10:22:59 AMpillar boxes
Those won't be changed/replaced. Existing ones will live on. There are still some around with King George's ident on.
Well, that's one Good Thing at least.
I'm sitting here bemused, not for the first time in recent history, by the reactions of the British public. And the media. It isn't "the whole country". I'd love to see some indifference reported.
I can see a case for the news being dedicated to one item for days on end. I just happen to think it should have been when we hit 100,000 COVID deaths.
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 11 September, 2022, 10:19:30 PM
I'm sitting here bemused, not for the first time in recent history, by the reactions of the British public. And the media. It isn't "the whole country". I'd love to see some indifference reported.
I can see a case for the news being dedicated to one item for days on end. I just happen to think it should have been when we hit 100,000 COVID deaths.
Yes the UK is so odd. Still enamoured by a relic like the monarchy.
Update: Still dead.
I can't help but feel the news that Ukraine has regained 200K square miles of their own territory as part of the largest conflict throughout Europe in decades, though undoubtedly present in some media presentation, is decidedly of more interest than the latest instalment in The None Walking Dead.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 September, 2022, 10:22:59 AM
Probably. They'll also have to change portraits in official offices, pillar boxes and those fancy costumes some officials wear. I'm sure Charlie won't mind covering the enormous cost out of his own pocket...
About which... ;) :)
https://www.facebook.com/ThingsOnlyIrish/posts/pfbid02B7FeuQzzvxhGJBvYzbv2ZyqQduKZxnZeSHqjKf2jJHzBRqXjDXFmTWsng7BYyQe1l
Quote from: paddykafka on 13 September, 2022, 02:25:21 PM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 September, 2022, 10:22:59 AM
Probably. They'll also have to change portraits in official offices, pillar boxes and those fancy costumes some officials wear. I'm sure Charlie won't mind covering the enormous cost out of his own pocket...
About which... ;) :)
https://www.facebook.com/ThingsOnlyIrish/posts/pfbid02B7FeuQzzvxhGJBvYzbv2ZyqQduKZxnZeSHqjKf2jJHzBRqXjDXFmTWsng7BYyQe1l
:lol:
:-D
a number of medical emergencies in the coffin queue today. and now we have night and the suddenly autumnal cold.
it's worth it, they say. divine right and so forth innit.
Which of his many homes will King Charles live in? (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-62918836)
Ah, great! Another story about how we can reflect our own experiences of bereavement by examining that of the Royals. I recall, when I was granted the right of Kings by God Almighty following the death of the previous monarch I also was faced with a choice of which palatial residence to rest my crown-weary head.
Which one of us here would envy King "I Fill Up Your Tank" Charles this terrible choice?
Huzzah! Long live King "I'll just live inside your trousers" Charles! Huzzah!
huzzah indeed.
dydd hapus owain glyndŵr.
Ukraine war: Occupied areas call urgent vote to join Russia (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62965998)
The weirdest thing about the whole "invade first, referendum at gunpoint" tactic of claiming territory is that there's a stripe of left-wing sympathizer from the previous generation that fully supports it.
I include in that number my dad (who, on the annexation of Crimea, said "but they had a referendum") and Roger Waters (who blames, obviously, NATO).
I wish famous, talented people (and my dad, who is half of that description) wouldn't be such dunces as soon as a red flag is waved in front of them.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 20 September, 2022, 07:07:36 PM
Ukraine war: Occupied areas call urgent vote to join Russia (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62965998)
The weirdest thing about the whole "invade first, referendum at gunpoint" tactic of claiming territory is that there's a stripe of left-wing sympathizer from the previous generation that fully supports it.
Not just from the previous generation either. I see Putin tankies on Twitter who are not that old. They claim to be anti-imperialist, but that only seems to apply to US/NATO imperialism. Russian and Chinese imperialism is just fine by them.
putin mobilising 300,000 reservists and threatening nukes?
that's strange - the bbc had me thinking there that this all finished 12 days ago ...
och well.
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 21 September, 2022, 09:46:36 AM
putin mobilising 300,000 reservists and threatening nukes?
that's strange - the bbc had me thinking there that this all finished 12 days ago ...
och well.
Can't say I agree - the only news I heard said that Ukraine had made significant gains. Nobody I listened to, including the BBC, gave me even the slightest feeling that this was anywhere near over.
In that there Youtube (that you'll have heard of), you often get silly headlines like "Is this the end of the tank?" or "Is this the end for Russia?", but the BBC tends to be more circumspect. Sort of "Big victory push in the north from Ukraine - Russia embarrassed - but they still hold a fifth of Ukraine and Putin's not the backing down sort".
And we can see that, indeed, he's not.
there has only been one story in ingerland town these last 12 days.
but it wasn't even a story.
the war in ukraine has been woefully under reported for a decade. and so here we are now. ditto belarus, hungary, poland, the fear in the baltics, the new terror in the balkans.
all just a day or so of a drive away.
ignorance is the mind killer, at the very least.
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 21 September, 2022, 07:30:08 PM
there has only been one story in ingerland town these last 12 days.
but it wasn't even a story.
the war in ukraine has been woefully under reported for a decade. and so here we are now. ditto belarus, hungary, poland, the fear in the baltics, the new terror in the balkans.
all just a day or so of a drive away.
ignorance is the mind killer, at the very least.
I get you now. We haven't been quite as swamped with dead monarch news over this way.
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 21 September, 2022, 09:46:36 AM
putin mobilising 300,000 reservists and threatening nukes?
that's strange - the bbc had me thinking there that this all finished 12 days ago ...
och well.
The entire population of Russia is 144 million. 300,000 sounds like a good portion of that. Though the question arises, 'why weren't they mobilised already'? Don't think of them like UK reservists - these aren't TA who have been practicing in the woods every weekend for years. These are the young, the old and the otherwise unfit for duty. Headteachers in schools have been ordered to give lists of male pupils nearing their eighteenth birthdays. Near-pension age men are being ordered into uniform.
... and there has genuinely been a huge spike in russia of internet searches into how to break one's own arm.
1,300 held after anti-mobilisation protests in Moskow and 37 other Russian cities (https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2022/sep/22/russia-ukraine-war-eu-to-prepare-new-sanctions-on-moscow-zelenskiy-lays-out-peace-formula-at-un-live-updates).
Also increases in border traffic from Russia (i.e. Russians wanting to get out of Russia to avoid conscription).
p.s. all this talk of Putin having the finger on the button - that doesn't launch missiles. It sends a message to commanders in subs and at missile installations to launch missiles. They can choose not to follow the order. If memory serves we've avoided nuclear armageddon numerous times over the years because commanders chose not to follow orders which arose from technical malfunctions.
Not sure I'd want to put faith in a few people doing the right thing, in a country increasingly heading towards extremism, and where at least some people at the top are keen to bring back the glory days. That said, I'd hope even Putin wasn't mad enough to fling a nuke at Kiev. God knows what would kick off at that point.
(My guess: his actual cunning plan is to annexe a few more regions, claim that means the border has moved, and then state Ukraine is invading Russia, aided by the west/NATO. Then the sabre-rattling has a new context, even though the basis for his argument is of course still bullshit. Probably still won't stop helpful idiots – some on the British far left; chunks of the GoP; Tucker Carlson – cheering on Russia though.)
QuoteBut inside Russia, there is also speculation that the military mobilisation could be larger than formally announced.
The independent Novaya Gazeta newspaper, which moved its operations to Europe amid a post-war crackdown on media, reported that Vladimir Putin's decree contains an additional paragraph which has been classified and kept secret.
The newspaper alleges that the secret paragraph allows for a call-up of up to a million people, rather than the reported 300,000, citing an unnamed government source.
An interesting chunk of a longer BBC article (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62996212) on the Russian mobilization. Kafkaesque.
There's was also a note that protestors are being handed draft papers in jail.
Irony central (https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-63026101) as Roger Waters accuses the Polish of being bricks in the wall for pushing back against his pro-Putin stance on the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Roger Waters, in case you're wondering, supports China's future annexation of Taiwan, and believes that the Ukrainians brought all of this on themselves.
dave gilmour, meanwhile, reconvened the (thankfully watersless) band and has been raising money and morale for ukraine. dave also has a ukrainian daughter-in-law. i kind of regret the 2005 reunion gig now - it's clear who has the soul and the vibe.
imho.
Turns out poor old Syd was one of the more sensible members of the band.
BBC headline: "Can Warning Signs Stop a Mass Shooting?" (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62683094)
The answer is yes. The warning sign is "does your country offer everyone a high-powered, semi-automatic rifle"?
The article does not mention this - instead choosing to focus on issues other than a system designed to allow mass shootings.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 27 September, 2022, 07:25:26 PM
The article does not mention this - instead choosing to focus on issues other than a system designed to allow mass shootings.
Well, obviously, because only a woke, communist libtard would dare to suggest otherwise!
I don't think the US system was "designed" to allow mass shootings. The system was designed to safeguard against the government becoming tyrannical by allowing its citizens to defend themselves against such an eventuality. However, weapons technology has evolved so dramatically in the meantime that keeping up the balance has led to insane levels of firepower.
it's the right to bear flintlock muskets.
That's certainly how it started - but now the genie's well and truly out of the bottle and there's no way to put it back in and maintain protection against tyranny. It's a knotty problem with no easy solution that I can see.
I say we just hard reset America, call it a sunken cost experiment, and start again. Maybe hold off on giving them guns for a few millenia.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 28 September, 2022, 09:47:00 AM
there's no way to put it back in and maintain protection against tyranny.
Except, in the final irony, the only people with access to
more insanely powerful weaponry than the citizens are the police and the army, meaning that all those guns are no defence at all against
actual tyranny. They're only good for shooting each other. And defenceless school children, obviously.
Indeed. The only true protection would be to disarm everyone, police and military included. Perhaps, in a few thousand years, we'll be enlightened enough to do this. For now, though, we have to rely on the dubious benevolence of the ruling classes...
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 28 September, 2022, 10:32:30 AM
Indeed. The only true protection would be to disarm everyone, police and military included...
I've seen that episode of the Simpsons. It leaves the Earth vulnerable to Kang and Kodos, who conquer with a plank with a nail sticking out of it.
It's got fuck all to do with defense against tyranny. There are country's that don't allow their citizenry to be heavily armed, which don't suffer from commonplace mass shootings. And there's the USA - which does, and which does.
Tis as simple as ABC. (Although it doesn't surprise me that Shark has some sympathy for the mass shooters.)
Quote from: Funt Solo on 29 September, 2022, 03:37:25 PM
It's got fuck all to do with defense against tyranny. There are country's that don't allow their citizenry to be heavily armed, which don't suffer from commonplace mass shootings. And there's the USA - which does, and which does.
Tis as simple as ABC. (Although it doesn't surprise me that Shark has some sympathy for the mass shooters.)
But there are also countries like Canada who have similar levels of gun ownership without the same number of mass shootings (a point made in more depth in Bowling for Columbine)
Bit harsh. My point was that the system wasn't "designed" to allow mass-shootings - that would be tinfoil hattery - but to address a realistic concern. The Founding Fathers weren't about to exchange the tyranny of kings for the tyranny of presidents and the right to bear arms was baked in as one of those checks and balances. The tragic consequences are incontrovertible but not designed to be so. Technology has outstripped the scope of the laws and fear has eclipsed their spirit.
And I have very little sympathy for any human being who deliberately harms another.
It was never about tyranny. The right to bear arms was conceived so that pioneers could steal land from natives by force, and so that slaveholders could keep their slaves in check.
Quote from: Richard on 29 September, 2022, 06:17:57 PM
It was never about tyranny. The right to bear arms was conceived so that pioneers could steal land from natives by force, and so that slaveholders could keep their slaves in check.
Winner winner chicken dinner.
The concept of 'right to bare arms' against an incumbent tyrant was and continues to be a hollow justification for the real reasons. It makes arms dealers a lot of money.
Quote from: Dandontdare on 29 September, 2022, 04:41:30 PM
But there are also countries like Canada who have similar levels of gun ownership without the same number of mass shootings (a point made in more depth in Bowling for Columbine)
This *may* still be true (Bowling for Columbine was a while ago, and mass shooting incidents in the US are now more common and more deadly), but still doesn't do anything to solve the problem - which is that easy access to guns causes the sacrifice of many citizens, and is supported by the government (because they do nothing to stop it). This all being true in the US. (It perhaps not being true in Canada doesn't help.)
---
Note to Shark - I never said that the 2nd amendment was designed to allow mass shootings. I said that the system (as it stands now) is designed to allow mass shootings. The law-makers know how to curtail mass shootings, by stopping easy access to high-powered weaponry. They don't curtail it. There is design in this. The NRA spend vast quantities of $$$ making sure that lawmakers stay off their lawn. There is design in this. Gun manufacturers do nothing to stop it, and thus continue to profit from the death of children. There is design in this.
Your usual fallback position of "yes, but governments are bad things" doesn't really do anything to help us here.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 29 September, 2022, 06:53:37 PM
Note to Shark - I never said that the 2nd amendment was designed to allow mass shootings. I said that the system (as it stands now) is designed to allow mass shootings. The law-makers know how to curtail mass shootings, by stopping easy access to high-powered weaponry. They don't curtail it. There is design in this. The NRA spend vast quantities of $$$ making sure that lawmakers stay off their lawn. There is design in this. Gun manufacturers do nothing to stop it, and thus continue to profit from the death of children. There is design in this.
Your usual fallback position of "yes, but governments are bad things" doesn't really do anything to help us here.
That's quite a conspiratorial view you've got going, there. Law makers, the NRA, gun manufacturers, all conspiring, maybe deliberately or maybe coincidentally, to defeat the people's representatives in their duty of care, to render the government impotent in the name of belief and profit. So I guess we're pretty much on the same page here, or at least in the same chapter.
Governments aren't bad things. They can't do anything, good or bad. They're illusory constructions wrapped in flags and paper and ink (and the same can be said of banks and corporations - all different layers in the same mirage). There are only people using the illusion for their own ends. That's the root of the problem. The illusion must therefore either be pressed into truly serving the masses or dispelled altogether and saner, more stable options found. There are deeper problems facing us; wars, shootings, assorted nightmares - these are the symptoms, not the disease. All "governments" give us are placebos - illusory solutions handed down from an illusory institution.
Of course, none of this waffle keeps powerful weapons out of the hands of lunatics. Whether they're in uniform or not.
I never said the three units were conspiring - *you* inserted that. Everything that follows, follows from your insertion.
governments can't do anything, good or bad?
thank goodness. kwasi kwarteng and the evil of this week is all an illusion. i was quite worried, for a moment ...
Quote from: Funt Solo on 29 September, 2022, 08:28:06 PM
I never said the three units were conspiring - *you* inserted that. Everything that follows, follows from your insertion.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 29 September, 2022, 06:53:37 PM
Note to Shark - I never said that the 2nd amendment was designed to allow mass shootings. I said that the system (as it stands now) is designed to allow mass shootings. The law-makers know how to curtail mass shootings, by stopping easy access to high-powered weaponry. They don't curtail it. There is design in this. The NRA spend vast quantities of $$$ making sure that lawmakers stay off their lawn. There is design in this. Gun manufacturers do nothing to stop it, and thus continue to profit from the death of children. There is design in this.
And I did say the conspiracy might be coincidental, more of a random combination of similar interests pushing events in a certain direction than at the behest of half a dozen hooded chain-smokers in the back room behind the back room with direct lines to every power broker on the planet and a book written in blood by some 10th Century nutter which serves as The Plan.
I favour the former possibility as being most likely - the effects of power, money, and influence flexing their way through the illusion, bending it to individually selfish ends. But, maybe you're right. Maybe there
is design in this.
I really don't have anything of substance to add that wouldn't feel ad nauseum, but maybe folks might find this a relevant and harrowing representation of the conundrum of unregulated arms profiteering.
SWEET DREAMS: BABYLON (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a-n_3H7F-IA)
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 29 September, 2022, 08:41:23 PM
governments can't do anything, good or bad?
thank goodness. kwasi kwarteng and the evil of this week is all an illusion. i was quite worried, for a moment ...
The evil is real - the evil is always real - but it dresses itself in the illusion of power. And, sure, it is a powerful illusion with the appearance of absolute solidity. But it's just people.
Whoever's at the top writes something down and the alchemy of government makes it Law. Words on a page, bearing a suitably high-level stamp, can be, and have been, the doom of millions. But the power, and the responsibility, doesn't lie in the ink on the paper, or the official stamps, or even its author or signatories, but in the people who believe the illusion turns the scribblings of madmen into the Word of Absolute Authority and then act on them without regard to personal conscience or Common Law. Because the words are dipped in "government," the alchemical process of turning gangsters, fraudsters, and wasters into legitimate overseers. With flags and paper and gallons of ink.
And guns, of course. The illusion is quite well defended.
The fault lies in us. We are afraid to say no to the illusion, no matter how corrupt and unfit for purpose it has become, for to do so feels like a violation of civilization. Governments will never end wars or control economies or keep everyone safe. It's the human race as a whole that does all that. Governments just jump in front of the parade, swirling their petticoats and putting on their Punch and Judy shows, pretending to lead when in reality they're just keeping the Right People at the front, all shielded by the illusion that they have the
right to rule.
They don't. They're just people, like everyone else. No amount of paper and ink can confer on one human being the right to dominate another. The loftiest stamp in the land cannot imbue words on a page with the right or power to kill. That's the illusion. Bound with spells. The idea that these words have power, even though they come only from another human being, or group of human beings, and not some mythical deity named Government.
Once I understood that, I knew that I would never blindly trust these people again and that I would never override my own morality to gain their favours. The only power the illusion has to force me back into its clutches is the power you give it. The only power it has at all is that which we give it.
The illusion is wrapped in mirrors, so all that power you see when you look at it; it's a reflection. That's you, all of you, with all of your power. The illusion tells you to do something that conflicts with your morality? Just say no. That's all I want from the illusion, and all I'm prepared to give it.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 29 September, 2022, 08:45:10 PM
And I did say the conspiracy might be coincidental...
I'm sorry - I never set out to deliberately disagree with you - it's just that I can't make sense out of almost anything you say. If it's a coincidence, then it's not a conspiracy.
I was talking about gun control legislation - you're talking about illusions. It's a bit like Yuval Noah Harari had a stroke and took mushrooms.
"If it's a coincidence, then it's not a conspiracy." If it's a coincidence, then it's not a single unified conspiracy.
"I was talking about gun control legislation - you're talking about illusions." Legislation is the illusion of law.
"...I can't make sense out of almost anything you say." I think you're doing just fine.
An absolute pounding (sorry) for the Tories in the polls. I doubt a British PM has ever had a worse start. Looks like the next general election will deliver you a leader who actually gives a fuck about you.
I just hope it also delivers a leader (and a cabinet) that actually gives a fuck about electoral reform, rather than another repeat of 1997 that will result in a ton of hubris and an eventual electoral defeat for Labour, despite Lab+Lib polling together over 50% and rabid Tories gaining yet another majority on 35–40%.
I won't hold my breath, despite what happened at the Labour conference, the vast majority of Labour voters and members being in favour of PR, CLPs mostly being in favour of PR, most of the big unions now being in favour of PR, and a great many Labour MPs being in favour of PR.
labour has become tory-lite, again, in order to become electable (they sung the anthem at conference, for the first time ever, to this end). they will win, due to truss. but, no, they couldn't give a toss about those who have nothing at all.
Fair point - I suppose tory-lite at this stage of the game is anything left of Vlad the Impaler.
Yeah, wouldn't it be much better if Labour were unelectable so the Tories got re-elected in 2024 and 2029 and 2034?
the electable starmer will win on a wet tory manifesto that will do very little for the dispossessed and the ill.
the so-called unelectable corbyn needed just 2227 more votes in 2017 to become pm on a manifesto that would have been genuinely transformative and progressive. so it can be done. just 2227.
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 01 October, 2022, 01:42:01 AM
the electable starmer will win on a wet tory manifesto that will do very little for the dispossessed and the ill.
sady I agree. He wins, wet tory policies fail to deliver Nirvana within four years, press vilifies Starmer, public goes back to voting for the reliably disappointing establishment.
The electoral coalition is tricky. To win, Labour has to get back a ton of voters in England who voted Tory, without spooking them. My hope is that same policy decisions are being driven by this and elements of caution are down to that.
At conference, I was deeply disappointed with how Labour played the same bullshit game as the Tories with money that doesn't exist. (Reinstating the 45p tax rate: good. Lying that this somehow gives you 'extra' money to use: bad.) But then the national energy company idea was a masterstroke (and actually a better idea than attempting to renationalise the utilities without owning the source of power). I was also glad that Starmer didn't take a pop at the Libs during his speech. (For me, the ideal outcome of a GE would be Labour needing a confidence agreement from 30–50 Libs, in return for PR and closer EU relations, but I suspect that's now a pipe dream. The Libs are, surprisingly, heading towards electoral wipeout.)
I still think the party is being disingenuous over Brexit and EU relations, although its policy is essentially three quarters of the Lib Dem plan (ending before single market membership, which is the end goal of the Libs). The party is also awful on migrants and asylum seekers (too often conflating the two and being shit to both), and the leadership dreadful on PR.
But.
Right now, we don't even have anything that is recognisable a Tory government. We have a far-right government. It is authoritarian, corporatist and economically libertarian. It wants to destroy the state. If Labour's end point during this stage of politics is something close to Blair regarding political positioning, so be it. I'm sure people would prefer the party to be more radical, but I'd at this stage prefer it to be electable.
Indeed. Being radical doesn't accomplish anything if you're never in power to implement your policies.
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 01 October, 2022, 01:42:01 AM
the electable starmer will win on a wet tory manifesto that will do very little for the dispossessed and the ill.
Do you really imagine that Labour would have abolished the 45% tax bracket and paid for it by cutting benefits?
I hear the same about Blair. He was just a soft Tory! Objectively, though, his government did a ton more for the less well-off. Was it perfect? Far from it. But if we aim for perfect, we are always going to be disappointed. Right now, I'll settle for better and for things heading in the right direction, not the wrong one.
Of course Starmer's Labour isn't perfect, but it would be hard to imagine a worse UK government than the ones headed by Johnson and Truss, barring of course some kind of dictatorial coup. Starmer may be quite a bit to the right of Corbyn, but as IP said, the current government is has very little whatsoever to offer beyond far-right populism.
I honestly believe that Starmer is at heart a fairly decent person who has at least some intention of helping the people he might lead. I'm struggling to see any such people in the Johnson / Truss cabinets.
And, at the risk of labouring (sorry) the point ad nauseum, I know that it's not my government I'm talking about, but over half of my extended family either are English or live in England, and Truss's outlook on the Good Friday Agreement has the potential of creating very, very serious problems this side of the Irish Sea. As in large-scale killing and maiming problems.
That isn't me, Kwarteng tells Mirror over wrong image (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-63100715)
This is like getting Spike Milligan and Johnny Rotten confused.
Reminds me of a wonderful, road-crash of an interview with Samuel L. Jackson (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdxMkQhq58g).
Alex Jones fucked around and found out. (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-10-12/alex-jones-must-pay-almost-1-billion-for-sandy-hook-lies)
the lady says she is for turning.
tories eh? the soap that keeps giving. and taking.
I preferred the previous season, with that mop-haired fop character - getting pissed and then pretending he didn't know what a party was - that was some great television. Of course, nothing can beat the earlier season with the pig-fucker smugly asking the British if they were a nation of insular, backward-minded simpletons that don't understand basic economics and being utterly dumbfounded that the answer was a resounding yes (shouted into the froth of a real ale tankard whilst horse whipping a peasant, or their spouse, or their neighbor, or a French).
This season's shit - it's just repeating last season but with someone who might've got a job as Thatcher's foot-stool in season #1. Remember season #1? When Thatcher stole all the children's milk?
I've seen it compared to the show from which this was originally spun off. The one with the jowly guy* that fought both nazis and alcoholism, but I feel too many people are willing to overlook all the racism and misogyny because of the witty, well written dialogue.
I think you've missed the point of this Truss character Funt, she's intended to show how no virus** is as deadly as an incompetent public servant.
*that, weirdly enough, sells car insurance in dog form now
**the (quite dull) focus of the last few seasons
Quote from: Mister Pops on 14 October, 2022, 09:26:55 PM
*that, weirdly enough, sells car insurance in dog form now
That's made me chortle so much I've come back to read it a second time. Oh yes!
Someone being honest about how they feel being quickly ushered out of the studio...
Miriam Margolyes swears about Jeremy Hunt on BBC Radio 4 – audio (https://youtu.be/AR3rbTT4CwU)
The BBC article about it won't even tell any of the grown-ups the actual words that were said. This has been happening a lot recently - tons of stories where the press don't feel they can actually tell us the words used - just that they were somehow beyond the pale. "Words were used in real life today which shouldn't be used and which we won't repeat - just take our word for it. It was awful. We have reported." Surely, at that point, you just need to not write the article.
i love miriam margolyes. i'm glad the showrunner got such a fine actor in for the otherwise dark and depressing and pointless season 44 of tory downing drowning street. all the other characters are such clichéd and unbelievable and uniteresting villains.
as things stand, it still looks as if jeremy anatomicalwordbeyondthepale will be making the disabled pay for more fortunate people's tax cuts.
there has never been any transcendence in this particular soap (tho they did tease us in 2017).
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 15 October, 2022, 07:36:06 PM
jeremy anatomicalwordbeyondthepale
Here's a helpful quote from a Guardian article (https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/oct/15/miriam-margolyes-swears-live-on-air-about-chancellor-jeremy-hunt):
QuoteDuring a debate ... journalist Victoria Derbyshire added herself to a long list of presenters who have inadvertently referred to him as "Jeremy Cunt".
I wonder if that ever happened to King Cnut?
I'm getting the impression that Liz Truss' legacy will be obscure pub quiz facts.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 15 October, 2022, 11:38:27 PM
I wonder if that ever happened to King Cnut?
***king Cnut?
'King Cnut = a particularly annoying Cnut.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 17 October, 2022, 09:11:19 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 15 October, 2022, 11:38:27 PM
I wonder if that ever happened to King Cnut?
***king Cnut?
Aye - he's the fella who notoriously tried to turn back the tide and was disappointed. (There is another reading of the event where he's not actually expecting the tide to turn and is instead making a point about the limits of Kingship.)
Interestingly, also known as Cnut the Great - so, from some perspectives, he was a great Cnut. It's from when the Vikings pretty much took over England, having made some great sport of Æthelred the Unready (which really means Æthelred the Ill-Advised). Æthelred's son, Edmund Ironside (later famous for a US detective show) dies after a just a few months on the throne and Cnut stepped in, replacing the English line (which had become a bit of a shit-show) with some hard bastards.
Cnut had a daughter, you know! Cunigund.
He also tried to ban anagrams.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 01 October, 2022, 02:34:22 PM
Of course Starmer's Labour isn't perfect, but it would be hard to imagine a worse UK government than the ones headed by Johnson and Truss, barring of course some kind of dictatorial coup. Starmer may be quite a bit to the right of Corbyn, but as IP said, the current government is has very little whatsoever to offer beyond far-right populism.
It's quite something to still see my social media feeds furious at the notion of a Starmer government and claiming it's going to be some kind of far-right neoliberal hellscape. Yes, he's not exactly a star performer. Yes, his leadership team is weak/boneheaded on key topics like working with the EU and electoral reform. Yes, his party is doing well in part because of what it is not as much as what it is. And, yes, he's not Jeremy Corbyn.
But look at the polls. Right now, Labour is frequently north of 50%. That won't hold. But it looks like with things looking like they will get harder, not easier – and directly due to the fault of the Tories – Labour will in some form lead the next government. Polling shows that Labour's scores for 'government in waiting' are higher than at any point even beyond Cameron's Tories just before they won in 2010. That in itself is a big achievement and bodes reasonably well.
Objectively, we're a long way from US-style far-right and centre-right politics, from an economic standpoint. (And from a progressive/liberal standpoint, Labour's always been very mixed anyway, even under Corbyn.)
Quote from: Funt Solo on 17 October, 2022, 10:19:32 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 17 October, 2022, 09:11:19 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 15 October, 2022, 11:38:27 PM
I wonder if that ever happened to King Cnut?
***king Cnut?
Aye - he's the fella who notoriously tried to turn back the tide and was disappointed. (There is another reading of the event where he's not actually expecting the tide to turn and is instead making a point about the limits of Kingship.)
Ah yeah, I know the fella - he's on that Valhalla series (on which I see many of my old fellow Vikings extras, who have apparently somehow survived the 100-odd years from the end of that series).
I was only trying to make a joke that combined the C-word with the F-word; inspired by Harry Hill's TV Burp which cheekily added a censorship beep to a documentary clip every time the king penguin was mentioned. I was surprised that the teatime slot could get away with this kind of messing, till I remembered Kenny Everett's Cupid Stunt character.
Oh - that's what the *** was doing! I can be so funking dense sometimes.
---
Meanwhile - Chinese embassy tries to eat protestor (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-63296107) - film at 11!
Another disaster from LT on PMQs
It's all starting to feel a bit Punch and Judy at this point ...
The fracking vote later is going to be a shitshow. The whips have decreed it's a confidence vote. So those who rebel would lose the whip. Some have put in letters against Truss, so those would then be null and void. But if they vote in favour, Labour has endless attack ads ready to run. This was such an easy trap to avoid, but, well, Tories.
I'm no expert on finance, but I can't help thinking that the clownshow of the last few weeks is tangible, demonstrable proof that trickle-down economics is a myth; at least in this corner of the world.
Braverman gone from the Home Office. Grant Shapps, God help us, tipped to replace her.
braverman's resignation letter is basically attacking truss for not being xenophobic enough ...
honestly, tories, if the thick of it (which i adore) were to be aired for the first time now it would fail on account of its unrealistic calmness and sobriety compared with the real thing.
I thought Priti Patel was a cartoon villain, but Braverman literally did an evil laugh about her plane-to-Rwanda 'dream'.
PM allegedly fired the chief whip in the division lobby. Rees-Mogg and others accused of physically dragging a Tory MP into the voting lobby.
And you wonder why I have no time for this system of yours.
"Don't take the bait ... don't take the bait ..."
Quote from: Funt Solo on 19 October, 2022, 10:04:30 PM
"Don't take the bait ... don't take the bait ..."
(https://i.imgflip.com/ajfa1.jpg)
Oh go-wan... go-wan, go-wan, go-wan, go-wan, go-wan... :-D
I remember spotting a YouTube video entitled something like '10 times Jacob Rees-Mogg owned the libs.' Imagine looking at that Walter-the-Softy-lookalike, milksop streak of piss and holding him up as some kind of warrior for your cause.
Rees-Mogg seems to have been born to provide a post-war warning about how easy it would be to descend into Nazi-ism. What a fucking horror. He'd have people off to the camps in the blink of an eye, that one.
(https://thepinprickcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/12/20181204_073432.jpg)
hang on, it was judge sssssnooty who told us that the fish in britain's newly sovereign waters are happier now.
And Truss is gone. New leader within a week.
Within a week? Can't see them organising it that quickly, after the shambles last time!
Quote from: sheridan on 20 October, 2022, 01:38:57 PM
Within a week? Can't see them organising it that quickly, after the shambles last time!
The plan that's been circulating is that when the leadership contest gets down to the last two, whoever has the fewer votes stands aside in favour of the other, who just gets appointed leader by default.
They're not going to allow that interminable campaigning phase like last time, and they have no intention of putting it to the members.
In the words of one unnamed senior Tory a few days ago: "The membership fucked it up. They don't get another go."
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 20 October, 2022, 01:35:56 PM
And Truss is gone. New leader within a week.
Feck me, so she is. Is that five Tory PMs in just over six years? On the other hand,
imagine the chaos that would might of have of happened if Ed Miliband had of been elected.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 20 October, 2022, 02:08:33 PM
Is that five Tory PMs in just over six years?
And three inside four months when the next one takes office. Still, at least we have a first past the post electoral system that guarantees stable, long-lasting governments, eh?
Even the Italians are laughing at us, now.
Is all this a harbinger of change, or will I be back in this thread in two years trying to articulate my hopelessness at another Tory election victory?
Oh, Jesus fucking Christ. The Times is reporting that Boris fucking Johnson is "taking soundings" in the Conservative party, with a view to standing in the forthcoming leadership contest.
BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON. AGAIN.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 20 October, 2022, 02:25:08 PMAnd three inside four months when the next one takes office. Still, at least we have a first past the post electoral system that guarantees stable, long-lasting governments, eh?
Mm. I must say that every shred of patience I had with people who are pro-FPTP/anti-PR has now been atomised. And they're still at it, pointing at Sweden, as though what we have is still somehow better.
(For those not in the know, Sweden now has a centre-right government with the far-right offering confidence. PR enabled the far-right to get quite a lot of seats, which we're told can't happen here, evidenced by the lack of eg BNP and UKIP/Brexit Party MPs. But instead, our system forces the two biggest parties to primarily care about swing voters, which once meant tempting Middle England but now demands they concentrate on nativists, which increasingly have crossover with... BNP and UKIP thinking. So we now effectively have a far-right government, in terms of economics and anti-liberal policy, even if the party itself still claims to be centre-right. And it was elected in 43% of the vote, which gained it 56% of the seats. ARGH.)
Quote from: wedgeski on 20 October, 2022, 02:34:34 PM
Is all this a harbinger of change, or will I be back in this thread in two years trying to articulate my hopelessness at another Tory election victory?
It's hard to see how the party can climb out of the hole it's in. But I suspect people will be disappointed if they think in two years the Tories will be facing electoral oblivion and not even be the official opposition. My _guess_ is that, whoever the new leader is, the polls will start to shift to at least some degree. That said, the Tories had best hope this is one of the mildest winters on record. If not, things could very quickly get messy.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 20 October, 2022, 02:52:19 PM
Oh, Jesus fucking Christ. The Times is reporting that Boris fucking Johnson is "taking soundings" in the Conservative party, with a view to standing in the forthcoming leadership contest.
BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON. AGAIN.
I think this was always his plan, but I reckon he thought he'd have two years before Truss fucked it up.
The thought of it is literally stomach-churning.
Scotland has never voted for the Tories since the 50s, but we still get them, mind you Paisley's secret weapon seems to have worked...
Truss must be quite pleased to be getting into the Guinness Book of World Records, though. Every cloud...
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 20 October, 2022, 02:52:19 PM
Oh, Jesus fucking Christ. The Times is reporting that Boris fucking Johnson is "taking soundings" in the Conservative party, with a view to standing in the forthcoming leadership contest.
BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON. AGAIN.
Oh ffs.
Quote from: Proudhuff on 20 October, 2022, 03:17:45 PM
Scotland has never voted for the Tories since the 50s, but we still get them, mind you Paisley's secret weapon seems to have worked...
Might be a good time now, to rename the Andy White comic song title to:
Donald, Where's Your TRUSSER'S?https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Donald_Where%27s_Your_Troosers%3F
According to Yorkshire Bylines, she's the first British prime minister not to have an episode of Doctor Who air during her term in office since the show began in 1963. If she'd only hung on until Monday.
QuoteNominations for Tory leadership election to close at 2pm on Monday
Nelson B. Kreelman, your hour has come!
Coming out of a triple bill at the flix where ALLS QUIET ON THE WSTERN FRONT is the final entry, and less depressing entry, into the canon of history is some grim shit.
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 20 October, 2022, 08:31:14 PM
Coming out of a triple bill at the flix ...
So you missed Liz's entire tenure as PM?
John Major? I'm assuming we arent counting Dimensions in Time here!
Quote from: nxylas on 20 October, 2022, 05:51:12 PM
According to Yorkshire Bylines, she's the first British prime minister not to have an episode of Doctor Who air during her term in office since the show began in 1963. If she'd only hung on until Monday.
Perhaps they're counting repeats.
Perhaps they're counting repeats.
dmitry medvedev tweeting gleefully about the daily star truss iceberg lettuce today ... is conclusive proof that chris morris has been programming this particular simulation of ours for a while now.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 15 October, 2022, 04:52:31 PM
Someone being honest about how they feel being quickly ushered out of the studio...
Miriam Margolyes swears about Jeremy Hunt on BBC Radio 4 – audio (https://youtu.be/AR3rbTT4CwU)
Oh come on, you cannot hire Miriam Margolyes and then be shocked when she swears. That's like going to a strip club and complaining that the women were underdressed.
Quote from: The Mind of Wolfie Smith on 20 October, 2022, 10:58:58 PM
dmitry medvedev tweeting gleefully about the daily star truss iceberg lettuce today ... is conclusive proof that chris morris has been programming this particular simulation of ours for a while now.
Brass Eye now looks like docu-news
Quote from: Leigh S on 20 October, 2022, 09:09:43 PM
John Major? I'm assuming we arent counting Dimensions in Time here!
No, but he was PM in 1996.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 20 October, 2022, 04:05:56 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 20 October, 2022, 02:52:19 PM
Oh, Jesus fucking Christ. The Times is reporting that Boris fucking Johnson is "taking soundings" in the Conservative party, with a view to standing in the forthcoming leadership contest.
BORIS FUCKING JOHNSON. AGAIN.
Oh ffs.
Just in case anyone was wondering how willing many Tories are to give the middle finger to the majority of the electorate. Some fascinating listening on The Rest is Politics (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsufaClk5if2RGqABb-09Uw) podcast, where Rory Stewart suggests that the Tories don't actually have a majority, because they're not really one party, but several (due to the splintering caused mainly by Brexit).
That's the problem with FPTP. The Tories and Labour are effectively coalitions. The Lib Dems are sort of one too, having been forged from an alliance, although their party appears more unified and coherent than the other two. Really, we should in the 1990s – and certainly by the mid-2000s – have had two centre-right parties: a more libertarian party akin to the current lot, and a more pragmatic version along the likes of Ken Clarke and such. Similarly, Labour should really be two parties. Others could then merge/realign accordingly.
I know that the art of the news headline is effectively an exercise in clickbait, but it still irritates me when the headline suggests something that just isn't in the article.
This one is "The tank that could fly into battle (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20221020-the-tank-that-could-fly-into-battle)" - except that it couldn't. So, the fuller headline would be something like "The tank that could fly into battle if some things that are true about tanks weren't". Or "This mad shit (unsurprisingly, really) never worked". Or "Nobody Ever Flew a Tank Into Battle, Except the A-Team in That Fairly Poor Movie, and Even Then it Wasn't a Battle, and They Weren't Actually Flying a Tank".
Summary: fuck off, BBC!
"Well Boris is the only candidate that actually has a mandate form the electorate!"
The BBC (and every one else) should respond with "But he spaffed that up the wall by lying to the queen, parliament and breaking the law!"
Plus he only got elected on a single issue - which was Brexit. Which happened. So, he doesn't have a mandate. (Plus everyone except twats has realized that Brexit was a shit idea and the best thing the UK could do to try and regain even one iota of stability is beg to be allowed back into the EU. Perhaps by sending them a sack containing the heads of Faragio, Johnson and Rees-Moog.)
Quote from: Funt Solo on 22 October, 2022, 03:46:10 AM
the best thing the UK could do to try and regain even one iota of stability is beg to be allowed back into the EU.
Highly unlikely they'd have us. At the barest minumum, we'd need a non-Conservative government for the process to begin, so comprehensively have the Tories trashed our relationship with Europe, and even then it's going to have to be incremental.
Start with the customs union (which at least makes the problems with the Good Friday Agreement go away), move on to limited regulatory alignment which would alleviate a signficant number of import/export hurdles and allow us access to some pan-European schemes we're currently excluded from, the rejoin the single market and, maybe, after a decade of contrition, they might consider allowing us to rejoin. On much worse terms than the ones we had when we left.
The EU is never going to send a signal to member states that you can just leave, give it a go on your own, decide you don't like it and walk back in when you feel like it. Particularly not given the way the Tories behaved right through the negotiations, and since.
That's the gift of Brexit.
From a texter to Emerald Isle Radio: "What the UK needs now, is to get it's Mojo back. NOT it's BoJo back!"
CU-first would be the Turkey model. Not sure that would fly, given that although it would remove many issues with the GFA, it'd largely eradicate the UK's ability to do trade deals and also wouldn't impact on 95% of our broader economic and employment problems, which are down to the SM.
The LD approach (which Labour adopts 75% of) appears to come at this from the other direction: stop being dicks > apply to rejoin key pan-European projects (Euratom, Erasmus, etc) > hassle-free movement for eg performers + increased regulatory alignment > rejoin the SM. It stops there (since LD policy after that is effectively rejoin). I imagine everyone can spot the bit Labour's not keen on.
In terms of rejoining, I doubt we'd have that much trouble – at least not as much as people suggest. The key will be reform here. If Labour gets in, even with a whacking majority, and asks to rejoin, it might be turned down, because the problems that led to Brexit won't have gone away. Labour could start the A49 process and lose the next GE and the EU would have wasted a ton of time. With PR, that becomes much less likely, because there have been few times during recent history where the Tories and their chums have had a majority of the vote.
As for the functional aspects of any deal, there are two trains of thought I've seen. The first is the UK would be told "take it or leave it" with a much stricter set of integration demands. That makes some sense, given that the UK being given slack was taken advantage of repeatedly. And even though we got what we wanted 99% of the time (even Cameron, during his negotiations), that was never enough. But I've also seen plenty of people suggesting a deal might not be that different from what we had before.
The EU cannot force a country to give up its currency. It does have to make a commitment, though. So we'd end up in the same space as Sweden rather than Denmark. The other two big things (given that there were also some security opt-outs) were Schengen and the rebate. The former of those would likely be a sticking point, given that Ireland would surely make the UK's re-entry contingent on Schengen being adopted in the UK. But that in itself might come with negotiation, given that the EU has merely admitted that some of the UK's security concerns were well-founded. So perhaps this would be a "yes, if X is implemented". The rebate is, of course, a non-starter at present; but I've seen a few commentators suggest that might return should the EU/Australia deal impact heavily on the farming sector.
So worse terms, sure, but for a given value of worse. Personally, I don't give a shit about sterling (and, as we've seen, nor does the rest of the world), but I get many Brits do. But that wouldn't be an issue anyway. The rebate would be a pity to lose, but would be countered by massive and immediate economic boost. As for Schengen, I'm sure the media would spin this with some kind of "open borders" bollocks, but I personally would like being able to more easily and freely travel within the union. It makes sense to me.
As for Johnson and his mandate, I'd say he had one. Under our appalling constitution, he still technically has one. But the Tories absolutely aren't governing with the current backing of the population. That's often the case with a government anyway – Labour had the same problem. But the sheer scale of the disconnect is astonishing. Labour is now consistently polling over 50%. As I've said before, I'm not sure that's a good thing if it turns out to be sustainable. I don't want to see Labour winning 80% of the seats, and doing another 1997 where it basically apes the Tories in taking all of the power, sidelining smaller parties and doing nothing to reform our system. All that means is we'd sooner or later just have awful Tories running the show again alone, with 100% of the power on 35% of the vote. But as it stands today, that buffer is useful, because there's a good chance it'll erode over the next two years, but still be big enough that Labour can be the biggest party after an election. I'd just sooner it ended up with 300 seats and there were 50 Lib Dems who'd do a deal in return for PR (in legislation – not another referendum) and wider electoral reform.
New day, new PM (Sunak).
What an utter, utter shitshow it all is.
Sunak's "It's My Turn" speech was very robotic - not as bad as Zuckerberg trying to empathize, but not far off it. Also not as bad as when Gordon Brown tried to smile. But about as far away from genuine and heartfelt as it's possible to get. Not that I need my leaders to be great actors - but then why can't they just be themselves? He also said that he was pleased to be "elected" - which he wasn't, was he? He was nominated.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2022, 06:41:03 PM
Also not as bad as when Gordon Brown tried to smile.
https://media.tenor.com/hoD7BeyBCgQAAAAd/terminator-smile.gif
Joe Biden has hailed Sunak's appointment as a 'groundbreaking milestone'.
There's a badly mixed metaphor if ever there was one.
Them Americans can no talk english good like what we does.
Quote from: JWare on 25 October, 2022, 08:43:45 AMJoe Biden has hailed Sunak's appointment as a 'groundbreaking milestone'.
I'm not sure in what manner. Sunak's outlook is neoliberal and trickle-down, which Biden is against. He's more competent than his two predecessors, but still presided over "eat out to help out" and lost literal billions to fraud. In a normal world, he'd possibly end up as a junior minister. That he's PM yet again shows the dearth of talent in this iteration of the Conservative Party.
I'm also a bit surprised by some of the 'hooray for Sunak' comments I'm seeing from usually sensible, left-leaning sources. Sunak is awful: bungled things terribly during the pandemic and backed Johnson to the hilt until he decided he could replace him (and bungled that too). The guy was issued an FPN by the police for Partygate FFS. He's an upgrade on Truss in the sense that he's not insane, but he's not exactly competent.
Not sure how we can get from here to a GE within two years. It's a very powerless state of affairs.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 25 October, 2022, 10:30:38 AM
Quote from: JWare on 25 October, 2022, 08:43:45 AMJoe Biden has hailed Sunak's appointment as a 'groundbreaking milestone'.
I'm not sure in what manner. Sunak's outlook is neoliberal and trickle-down, which Biden is against. He's more competent than his two predecessors, but still presided over "eat out to help out" and lost literal billions to fraud. In a normal world, he'd possibly end up as a junior minister. That he's PM yet again shows the dearth of talent in this iteration of the Conservative Party.
My point is purely linguistic. You don't want a milestone to break ground. You just want it to tell you how many miles it is to the next town.
Anyway, not my PM, not my president, so (I most fervently hope!) not my problem.
Nice to see Brazil in safer hands. Not saying he's perfect of course but anyone is better than Trump Mark 2. Sadly, I suspect January 6 Mark 2 is on the way too.
Real news continues to read like satire with the BBC headline "Shanghai Disney visitors trapped after lockdown" and lead-in text of "Rides are continuing to operate for those trapped inside The Happiest Place on Earth".
A couple of days ago the story was about some staff in an iphone factory jumping the fences to escape.
---
Bolsonaro made a bold political move by saying he'd happily eat indigenous people. He still won 49% of the vote, so suggesting cannibalism as a policy is not entirely political suicide. The world, it turns...
Well, I didn't know that - the guy's worse than I'd thought. Who the feck is voting for these populist nutjobs? I've been teaching Brazilians for years - they make up the majority of our students, for some reason - and I've only met one who admitted to liking Bolsonaro. ('because he's honest' - translation 'because he's a self-serving bigot and so am I.')
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 31 October, 2022, 07:50:43 PM
Well, I didn't know that - the guy's worse than I'd thought. Who the feck is voting for these populist nutjobs? I've been teaching Brazilians for years - they make up the majority of our students, for some reason - and I've only met one who admitted to liking Bolsonaro. ('because he's honest' - translation 'because he's a self-serving bigot and so am I.')
There was footage yesterday of the police and military driving away voters with force in areas that favoured Lula. I suspect the margin of victory would have been a lot bigger in a free and fair election. The Republicans are trying the same thing in the US, sending armed "poll watchers" to intimidate voters.
Things are far from perfect, of course, as better-informed boarders are about to tell me, and it's not over yet. But it's nice to see more Americans care about democracy than I'd thought.
I'm with you - the expectations were that the "it's the economy, stupid" argument would allow the Trumpists to fart all over the Dems, but it turns out that the evangelical Supreme Court taking away women's rights to abortion (and, perhaps, the threat of Trump becoming the world's next Mussolini) prompted a lot of people to wake up and smell the voting coffee.
Thank fuck! Capitalist democracies are not perfect, by any stretch, but a fuck ton better than strong-man politics, authoritarianism or fascism.
Probably being a bit over-optimistic here on the strength of the Democratic turnout, but maybe the inevitable clash of fragile egos between Trump and deSantis will weaken them both.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 31 October, 2022, 07:50:43 PM
Well, I didn't know that - the guy's worse than I'd thought. Who the feck is voting for these populist nutjobs? I've been teaching Brazilians for years - they make up the majority of our students, for some reason - and I've only met one who admitted to liking Bolsonaro. ('because he's honest' - translation 'because he's a self-serving bigot and so am I.')
Is it not the same as the most extreme right-wing USAians (of which there are many)? i.e. the ones you see outside the country of origin are the ones who are a little more open to outside experiences.
Quote from: sheridan on 11 November, 2022, 09:14:09 AM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 31 October, 2022, 07:50:43 PM
Well, I didn't know that - the guy's worse than I'd thought. Who the feck is voting for these populist nutjobs? I've been teaching Brazilians for years - they make up the majority of our students, for some reason - and I've only met one who admitted to liking Bolsonaro. ('because he's honest' - translation 'because he's a self-serving bigot and so am I.')
Is it not the same as the most extreme right-wing USAians (of which there are many)? i.e. the ones you see outside the country of origin are the ones who are a little more open to outside experiences.
Well, yes, of course, which is why many of them aren't in their home country any more. I used to wonder why there were so many LGBTQ Brazilians, and it took me an embarrassingly long time to realise that there are a huge number of LGBTQ Brazilians in
Europe.
Elon Musk tells Twitter staff to work long hours or leave (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63648505)
or
"My slaves have no rights, and need to agree to that, says world's richest sociopath".
Quote from: Funt Solo on 16 November, 2022, 06:09:40 PM
Elon Musk tells Twitter staff to work long hours or leave (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63648505)
or
"My slaves have no rights, and need to agree to that, says world's richest sociopath".
He's really really bad at this, eh?
I think I'd probably take the red pill here, by which I mean the second option.
It's almost as if being rich and having a big mouth doesn't mean you're good at everything.
*cough*BillGates*cough*
Quote from: Richmond Clements on 16 November, 2022, 06:22:19 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 16 November, 2022, 06:09:40 PM
Elon Musk tells Twitter staff to work long hours or leave (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63648505)
or
"My slaves have no rights, and need to agree to that, says world's richest sociopath".
He's really really bad at this, eh?
It made me think of those "How to know if your boss is a bully" type articles the BBC spaffs out on the poorly-titled Worklife section of its poorly-title News section.
- Do you work for Twitter?
- Then, your boss is a bully.
Back in the Olden Days Ago, when jobs were all over the place, there was nothing quite so satisfying as walking out on a bullyboss. Preferably at some crucial or at least awkward moment.
I once told a boss to, "start with your shiny new artic and stick the entire place up your arse," because I'd read something similar somewhere and thought it sounded cool, and the bullyboss was being a pain in the arse. I walked thirty yards into the next unit and straight into another job. I was unemployed for like, a minute.
*sigh* Those were the days...
I can't act too surprised at the very male, necessarily entirely heterosexual world cup being played out in Qatar. Advice to travelers: if you are gay, do your best to pretend not to be, as you may be executed for crimes against a mythical sky god. Also, if you're female, or want to commit a PDA, or ...
Wait? Why the fuck would anyone volunteer to travel to such an odd, throwback, backwater.
Better to stay safe in the UK. But don't hurt any statues. Oh, or try to defend yourself from a rapist. Or seek asylum. Or expect to have your views represented in the government. Or be a member of the press covering a climate protest.
Twitter locks staff out of offices until next week (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63672307)
*hronch* *hronch* - munching on popcorn while the world's richest sociopath plunges the world's most overpriced buyout into the surface of Mars at light speed.
I sometimes think Musk is deliberately tanking twitter for the sake of humanity's soul.
But I only think that when I'm feeling particularly generous of spirit.
He might be a Dadaistic follower of Discordianism staging an elaborate prank. There is the whole sink thing:
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/fefff202d40dc7abdae42d2fc2c4ea389938289d/1369_889_1131_679/master/1131.jpg?width=620&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none)
And his "let that sink in".
(On the other hand, I hate him.)
He's a prick, fuck him
Get off the fence and say what you really think, Richard. You're right, though, of course.
FIFA now helping Qatar achieve it's anti-gay agenda by threatening to sanction players, and the teams all quickly folding to the pressure: World Cup 2022: England, Wales & other European nations will not wear OneLove armbands (https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/63699477).
I hope anyone *enjoying the football* feels suitably ashamed of themselves.
I'm so glad that statism isn't my religion.
(https://media.tenor.com/mHSEkbUrvksAAAAC/bait.gif)
I need a new gif, though, because it doesn't quite get across the depth of the trap you're laying there.
Maybe this:
(https://media.tenor.com/mSWL1Ru5VrIAAAAC/troll-bait.gif)
It's not a trap. I've said before that I regard statism as nothing more than a religion at best and a cult at worst. I also don't believe that rights come from governments. Others may not believe these things but to me they make perfect sense. How is it possible to believe that different governments have the right to decide whether individuals of the same species can be gay or not and at the same time believe that sexuality a personal choice? Allowing sexual choice is just as bonkers as disallowing it because it suggests that all sexuality must be assessed by the state.
In your (i'm sure entirely earnest, if catastrophically misplaced) solipsism, Sharky, I can't help but wonder if you ever considered queer people don't care if the state accepts their existence or not, but if measures are being put in place to prevent them being bludgeoned in the street for the damnable offence of 'checks notes' holding hands.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 22 November, 2022, 07:10:54 AM
It's not a trap.
Reductive reasoning that devolves any topic at all into your home-grown redefinition of terms and pet philosophical tambourine (that also manages to victim-blame the oppressed) is definitely a trap.
Anyone presents any topic at all - you hit them in the face with your tambourine. Now what are we all doing? Talking about your fucking tambourine again.
Hawkie, I sincerely hope they don't care whether the state accepts their existence or not. Orientations are nobody else's business - yours isn't mine, mine isn't yours - and especially not the state's. If we have to have a state, then it should at least be protecting everyone equally from being bludgeoned in the street.
But that's not the primary function of the state. The primary function of the state is to ensure the continuance of the state, and if that means throwing individuals or groups under the bus, they'll do it. If it means rescuing individuals or groups, they'll do that too. Everything else the state does, from corporate hand-outs to banker bail-outs to managing the country's infrastructure and services, is secondary - requiring just enough effort to look adequate - because the state must survive.
There are better ways of doing things, but first the fundamental flaws of the state as it exists today must, I think, be examined. One of those fundamental flaws is the belief that individual proclivities require official sanction from the state and that some can be allowed and some can be disallowed. The only metric, in my view, is harm - so long as there is none, there is no basis for discrimination of any kind by society, law, or state.
Ah, Funt - how to explain? It's not about victim-blaming. Although, taking that criticism on board and having a quick think, maybe it kind of is. In the sense that, we're all stuck with this system that nobody seems to really like, we're all the victims of it, all held back by it, all frustrated by it, and all responsible for it. We've let it get out of control, and it's our misplaced reverence for it that keeps us from reigning it in.
Because there's good news, you know. When I said that the primary function of the state is to ensure the continuance of the state, then that's a big plus. If the only way for the state to continue is for it to fundamentally reform, it'll do it. The tinkering that happens at elections and the squabbling madness that happens the rest of the time isn't going to cut it. That's just the Punch & Judy show. We need to clean up the whole seaside.
And it's not a tambourine. It's a buben.
(https://media.makeameme.org/created/one-does-not-lrg093.jpg)
(https://memeguy.com/photos/images/mrw-seeing-a-political-argument-on-facebook-124218.gif)
The message I'm getting, Shark, is that we might as well close this thread down, or lock it.
I thought it might be an interesting place to talk about current news stories. The problem I'm having is that you're like a guard dog with a bone to pick. Whatever issue gets raised, you start banging on with your pet theories.
It's like nobody else is allowed to have a thought. It's insulting, actually, because you only ever broadcast, you never accept input. And you're always mud-slinging this idea that everyone else is a moron who hasn't had the wit to see the golden truth.
It's really fucking patronizing. But - you know what - you win. You've pissed all over it. You get to keep it.
I really, really hope the thread isn't locked. I would very much miss a place to discuss current affairs.
EDIT: Just realised that might sound like sarcasm but it's not. Funt, if you're leaving, I'll miss your input a lot too.
Okay.
I'll get me coat.
Ireland's head of government Micheál Martin steps down this weekend as taoiseach. He will be ploughed into the earth to appease the Goddess and assure the future prosperity of the republic.
Quote from: JWare on 16 December, 2022, 08:39:10 AM
Ireland's head of government Micheál Martin steps down this weekend as taoiseach. He will be ploughed into the earth to appease the Goddess and assure the future prosperity of the republic.
...and assure the future prosperity
for the already comfortably-off and well-heeled citizens of the republic.
FTFY :)
And on a related note, the National Homeless and Housing Coalition will be holding a protest tomorrow, Saturday 17th December, outside the Dail on Kildare Street at 1pm.
https://www.facebook.com/NationalHomelessandHousingCoalition/
I hope that they will be using my favourite ever protest chant: "What do we want? Gradual change! When do we want it? In due course!"
Quote from: JWare on 16 December, 2022, 08:39:10 AM
Ireland's head of government Micheál Martin steps down this weekend as taoiseach. He will be ploughed into the earth to appease the Goddess and assure the future prosperity of the republic.
I'm glad this thread hasn't gone under.
Also, thanks for the heads up, Paddy. I might head along.
On an unrelated note, has anyone seen what Trump's latest 'big announcement' turned out to be? Good lord.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 16 December, 2022, 11:05:42 AM
Also, thanks for the heads up, Paddy. I might head along.
You're very welcome, Jayzus. I know it's short notice, but if there's any other Squaxx thinking of attending the protest, maybe we should organise a quick meet up ourselves beforehand, and go as a block, as it were? I'm fighting with the Old Kilmainham block! Who the hell are the rest of you guys with?! :D
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 16 December, 2022, 11:05:42 AM
Has anyone seen what Trump's latest 'big announcement' turned out to be? Good lord.
An overpriced poor quality Panini sticker album? I saw it.
*
deep sigh*
The Nasty Fucking Things that just refuse to go away.
And every one of them sold already for slightly shy of 4.5 million.
The more I see of this shit the better I understand the Bolsheviks.
God help us all. Imagine getting that shit as a Christmas present. Think I'd prefer a belt of a stick from Belsnickel.
I had to look up who Belsnickel is, and now I know.
Who said this forum is the refuge of ignorant degenerates?
Literally everyone.
Quote from: JWare on 17 December, 2022, 12:46:03 PM
I had to look up who Belsnickel is, and now I know.
Who said this forum is the refuge of ignorant degenerates?
Like, I suspect, most other people who know about Belsnickel, I heard it here first. Though I've since become fascinated by the non-Santa Christmas visitors, from the Yule Lads to Befana. (And now I have an idea... watch this space.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkb2B6OCIY4&ab_channel=TheOffice (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkb2B6OCIY4&ab_channel=TheOffice)
As sure as night follows day...
https://www.thejournal.ie/hundreds-arrested-brazil-congress-stormed-bolsonaro-5964056-Jan2023/ (https://www.thejournal.ie/hundreds-arrested-brazil-congress-stormed-bolsonaro-5964056-Jan2023/)
Amid plummeting popularity and upcoming election that was starting to look unwinnable, NZ's Prime Minister resigns.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-date-or-reshuffle-pm-jacinda-ardern-to-make-first-announcement-of-election-year/K5N4VW477RF2JB3CGAZBXSNBBU/ (https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/election-date-or-reshuffle-pm-jacinda-ardern-to-make-first-announcement-of-election-year/K5N4VW477RF2JB3CGAZBXSNBBU/)
It's really depressing to see New Zealand also fall headlong into populism. Looks like its next govt will essentially be the equivalent of the Tories in coalition with something akin to the current iteration of the Tories or Reform UK. "Vote for these magic beans" wins again.
I'd hardly call this 'falling headlong into populism' - Jacinda Ardern rode her party to power on the basis of 'Jacindamania' and had a doting press for the first three years of her government. With that popularity (I'll admit, justifiably earned on the basis of her handling of the Christchurch massacre, the White Island eruption and the first wave of Covid), her party achieved a majority government for the first time since the start of MMP nearly three decades ago.
Her preferred PM rating has been in the 40's and 50's up until about a year ago when the mania started wearing off and people have noticed that the Labour party failed to deliver on any of their policies (e.g. out of the 10,000 affordable homes they were building, only 500 have been made in 5 years. Inflation, unemployment, homelessness and crime are all up) and been beholden to fringe sections of her party. Her popularity is now in the 30's.
On the other side, Chris Luxon (leader of the National Party), has never had more than 20% of the preferred PM rating. He is seen by National voters as a competent manager, but a bit of a nobody. And after Jacinda Ardern and John Key before her, he certainly lacks a lot of charisma. Most people here are voting National to get the party in, but would prefer almost anyone else to be PM.
if anything, we are departing from populism and returning to party politics! :-D
Given the abuse she's apparently been subjected to, I'm amazed she lasted this long.
Quote from: Angry Vince on 19 January, 2023, 07:55:59 PM
Her preferred PM rating has been in the 40's and 50's up until about a year ago when the mania started wearing off and people have noticed that the Labour party failed to deliver on any of their policies (e.g. out of the 10,000 affordable homes they were building, only 500 have been made in 5 years.
Wow! Oh for such figures! Remember when that conservative government minister said they didn't have any figures to hand on the amount of homes they'd built out of their promised 300,000? The person asking the questions pointed out that 'zero' wasn't a terribly difficult number to remember.
I said 'minister' - the one in particular? Liz Truss! From zero to zero (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/election-2019-50507342).
Another black man murdered by cops in the US, it seems. I'll never move to America.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 27 January, 2023, 10:13:04 AM
I'll never move to America.
400 million privately held firearms and 74 million people who thought a second term of Trump was a good idea. Not attractive numbers, by any means.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 27 January, 2023, 10:13:04 AM
Another black man murdered by cops in the US, it seems. I'll never move to America.
There are FAR more reasons than that to never move to America. I would never even VISIT the place.
On a lighter note.https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-64353190
Quote from: The Doctor Alt 8 on 27 January, 2023, 05:02:55 PM
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 27 January, 2023, 10:13:04 AM
Another black man murdered by cops in the US, it seems. I'll never move to America.
There are FAR more reasons than that to never move to America. I would never even VISIT the place.
On a lighter note.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-64353190
I remember something very similar to this happening in one of the Dirk Gently books. It turned out to be some kind of extra-dimensional anomaly or something and there was literally no way to get the sofa anywhere.
That isn't the first time someone referenced the Dirk Gently co incidence....
A comment in The Guardian:
QuoteI thought I read earlier that our Brexit benefits will be visible for a brief period tomorrow night, after the moon has set, but you will probably need binoculars to see them, and it will be the last time they will be visible in our lifetimes.
Roger Waters addressed the UN today,
on behalf of Russia against Ukraine.I imagine it was an unironic version of this:
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 08 February, 2023, 10:55:38 PMRoger Waters addressed the UN today, on behalf of Russia against Ukraine.
From his swedish mountaintop hideout. As pure a WTF moment as we have ever achieved.
The Fawlty Towers reboot. From a GB News presenter who used to be funny but now just whines about cancel culture, even though he's always on the telly and his old shows are constantly repeated. No thanks.
Another entertainer whose heyday was fifty years ago makes grumpy reactionary noises. Couldn't they just have stuck to entertaining?
In the case of Cleese, the market can decide whether or not the show gets made and the audience can decide to watch it or ignore it. The Fawlty Towers thing is sad but irrelevant.
Roger Waters addressing the UN is on another level, alas. As Wedgeski says – pure uncut high-grade what-the-fuckery.
Aged celebrities. Whatcha gonna do?
- We just shot down 3 UFO's
- We don't know what they are. Can't rule any possibility out.
- They're definitely not extraterrestrial.
- We'll recover the wreckage and find out.
- We won't recover the wreckage.
- They were probably benign.
Quote from: Link Prime on 15 February, 2023, 11:01:27 AMWe just shot down 3 UFO's
Who's this 'we'?
I never shot down anybody. Those 20mm shell casings all over my yard could have been left there by
anybody.
Quote from: JWare on 15 February, 2023, 11:21:01 AMQuote from: Link Prime on 15 February, 2023, 11:01:27 AMWe just shot down 3 UFO's
Who's this 'we'?
I never shot down anybody. Those 20mm shell casings all over my yard could have been left there by anybody.
A coupla clips of 6mm will do for the caffeinated sparrows.
Quote from: JWare on 15 February, 2023, 11:21:01 AMThose 20mm shell casings all over my yard could have been left there by anybody.
Bloody kids.
Quote- We just shot down 3 UFO's
- We don't know what they are. Can't rule any possibility out.
- They're definitely not extraterrestrial.
- We'll recover the wreckage and find out.
- We won't recover the wreckage.
- They were probably benign.
- We're definitely not trying to distract you from a traincrash in Ohio
- That traincrash was definitely not the inevitable consequence of Republicans rolling back regulations on train safety
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 15 February, 2023, 08:42:22 PMWe're definitely not trying to distract you from a traincrash in Ohio
There was no train crash.
What you saw was swamp gas from a weather balloon trapped in a thermal pocket that refracted the light from Venus.
Yayy! Brexit's got done. Again. Can't wait for the next time Brexit gets done.
Seriously, though, Johnson is once again showing his true nasty, self-serving and sociopathic self once again by trying to cast doubt over the new deal. Is there a single person left who thinks he gives a flying feck about the welfare of his country?
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 15 February, 2023, 08:42:22 PMQuote- We just shot down 3 UFO's
- We don't know what they are. Can't rule any possibility out.
- They're definitely not extraterrestrial.
- We'll recover the wreckage and find out.
- We won't recover the wreckage.
- They were probably benign.
- We're definitely not trying to distract you from a traincrash in Ohio
- That traincrash was definitely not the inevitable consequence of Republicans rolling back regulations on train safety and two and a half years of Democrats leaving them rolled back.
FTFY.
The Republicans have since found a way to make that train crash work for them.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 28 February, 2023, 06:57:45 AMYayy! Brexit's got done. Again. Can't wait for the next time Brexit gets done.
Hm, the patch update is still buggy, can't get anything to run at 60 FPS.
And I swear I saw a Pidgeon clipping through a smokestack yesterday, hopefully they fix that with the next update.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 28 February, 2023, 06:57:45 AMYayy! Brexit's got done. Again. Can't wait for the next time Brexit gets done.
We can all celebrate with a nice turnip. Raw of course, because nobody can afford any gas to cook it.
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 28 February, 2023, 09:23:53 AMHm, the patch update is still buggy, can't get anything to run at 60 FPS.
I'm still seeing that weird thing with the ludicrous yellow hair. I thought that glitch got sorted out months ago.
Quote from: JWare on 28 February, 2023, 10:48:23 AMQuote from: Hawkmumbler on 28 February, 2023, 09:23:53 AMHm, the patch update is still buggy, can't get anything to run at 60 FPS.
I'm still seeing that weird thing with the ludicrous yellow hair. I thought that glitch got sorted out months ago.
These posts gave me a much needed chuckle. Fair play :)
Quote from: JWare on 28 February, 2023, 10:48:23 AMQuote from: Hawkmumbler on 28 February, 2023, 09:23:53 AMHm, the patch update is still buggy, can't get anything to run at 60 FPS.
I'm still seeing that weird thing with the ludicrous yellow hair. I thought that glitch got sorted out months ago.
Early signs indicate they still haven't sorted out the DUP.exe's compatibility issues. It may still be stuck in its recursive loop of just outputting "NO". They may just have to accept it's far too outdated to bother trying to get it to integrate
Ha!
Well played, sir. :lol:
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 28 February, 2023, 02:48:02 PMEarly signs indicate they still haven't sorted out the DUP.exe's compatibility issues. It may still be stuck in its recursive loop of just outputting "NO". They may just have to accept it's far too outdated to bother trying to get it to integrate
It think you will find that the most recent version of DUP is not in fact an exe but has actually been written on a ZX81 in Sinclair Basic. Even this was considered somewhat heretical by some members of the party who had still not moved beyond Stone_Tablet ...
You scoff, but their plan to chip off NI and float it across the sea and hook it onto Merseyside has several merits - not least the utter destruction of the Isle of Man. Once Liverpool is newly landlocked, Belcoo can claim its rightful place as an international shipping port.
And they said it couldn't be done! Uhm ... begorah!
Begorah? Wasn't that one of the monsters that fought Gojira?
Quote from: JWare on 28 February, 2023, 07:23:44 PMBegorah? Wasn't that one of the monsters that fought Gojira?
I think he's the one with Atomic Jameson Breath. :)
Cue TOHO soundtrack!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsArE4XpZ60
Quote from: lincnash on 28 February, 2023, 09:09:41 PMI think he's the one with Atomic Jameson Breath.
Careful now, Linc. If you've ever seen the Scots getting touchy over national stereotypes on this board, just consider how many Irish are here, and what bad-tempered sonsabitches we all are.
(But hey – feel free to mock the English. Lovely fellas all, and they can take a joke with the best of 'em.)
Quote from: JWare on 01 March, 2023, 04:40:59 PMCareful now, Linc.
:o
Didn't mean to offend anyone and apologies if I did, thought I was just continuing with the TOHO banter and riffing on the overused 'drinker trope'. Too much personal info but from an Ozzer with Emerald Isle forebears that emigrated in the 1870s, if that counts for anything. Aware of the heavy drinker stereotype from both the Australian and Irish sides but never let it get under the skin.
Know all about nationality stereotypes as most Ozzer Squaxx still hold a grudge (joking really) against the Wagner and Grant droids for the gross stereotypes in the OZ saga. Long memories over Judge Bruce, Jug McKenzie and just about every generic OZ character introduced way back when. But we do appreciate a bit of black self-depreciating humour every now and then. :lol:
Not a bother. No offence taken at all. I was joking myself. My apologies if I made it seem otherwise.
However, even before you mentioned it, thoughts on idle stereotypes led me to wonder how you might have viewed Wagner & Grant's portrayal of Judge Shrimp-on-the-Barbie and Judge G'Day Mate back in 1987. The prog's past record on cultural sensitivies doesn't bear too close inspection.
Speaking of which, has anybody yet read the Comic Book Herald piece (https://www.comicbookherald.com/grant-morrisons-judge-dredd-part-i/?mc_cid=e818f891a0&mc_eid=578dffc6b5) on Grant Morrison advertised in today's Thrillmail?
In examining the ill-remembered Morrison Dredds, the writer uses the word 'Orientalism' all of fourteen times. I've only ever used it once, and that was just now. That said, if my name was Ritesh Babu and I was critiquing Morrison's portrayal of Asian characters, I might have good cause to haul out the big words too.
Quote from: lincnash on 01 March, 2023, 08:46:22 PMQuote from: JWare on 01 March, 2023, 04:40:59 PMCareful now, Linc.
:o
Didn't mean to offend anyone and apologies if I did, thought I was just continuing with the TOHO banter and riffing on the overused 'drinker trope'. Too much personal info but from an Ozzer with Emerald Isle forebears that emigrated in the 1870s, if that counts for anything. Aware of the heavy drinker stereotype from both the Australian and Irish sides but never let it get under the skin.
Sure an' Oi've kilt men for less, so I have, so I have.
Nah, no offence taken here either - in fact I have to admit that in my little canalside / houseboat community anyway, most of us are at least borderline alcoholics, myself no exception.
How about that? A note of conciliation from JayzusB "Mad Dog" Christ himself – the man to whom the Leinster Bareknuckle Boxing Federation recently handed down a lifetime ban. :D
And I'm sorry for derailing this thread to hell and gone. All it took was one innocent Begorrah to sidetrack me.
More importantly, my mention of Grant Morrison above deserves a thread of its own, I suppose.
Youse'uns south of the border are a contentious lot so ye are.
Keep it down over there.
*bangs a pan against the Irish Sea*
Quote from: JWare on 01 March, 2023, 10:04:22 PMHow about that? A note of conciliation from JayzusB "Mad Dog" Christ himself – the man to whom the Leinster Bareknuckle Boxing Federation recently handed down a lifetime ban. :D
suppose.
Bejabbers!
Quote from: JWare on 01 March, 2023, 04:40:59 PMQuote from: lincnash on 28 February, 2023, 09:09:41 PMI think he's the one with Atomic Jameson Breath.
Careful now, Linc. If you've ever seen the Scots getting touchy over national stereotypes on this board, just consider how many Irish are here, and what bad-tempered sonsabitches we all are.
aye, but you never end up fight each other....
No, it takes an Englishman to organize that...
Ochone!
I already knew that Hancock & Co. were an arse-biscuit collective, but it's discouraging to see how much: Matt Hancock: Eight government WhatsApp Covid messages revealed (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-64823096)
Throughout my childhood, my government was a collection of gombeens, gobshites, and tuppenny-haepenny crooks. I got used to it, supposing that it was just the order of things. Now, compared to the arse-biscuit collective, my mob looks almost statesmanlike.
Don't know what sort of a point I'm trying to make here, but it certainly isn't anything heartening.
In other news, did anyone here happen to lose 2.3 tonnes of cocaine recently?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/02/bags-of-cocaine-wash-up-on-normandy-coast
Quote from: JWare on 02 March, 2023, 07:43:47 PMIn other news, did anyone here happen to lose 2.3 tonnes of cocaine recently?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/02/bags-of-cocaine-wash-up-on-normandy-coast
Anybody seen Michael Gove buying a Eurostar ticket recently?
Quote from: JWare on 02 March, 2023, 07:43:47 PMIn other news, did anyone here happen to lose 2.3 tonnes of cocaine recently?
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/mar/02/bags-of-cocaine-wash-up-on-normandy-coast
In an attempt to suppress the thread silliness (not really) and get back to the topic at hand...
Losing your large bundle of coke at sea is really becoming commonplace in the antipodes.
https://7news.com.au/news/wa/three-men-rescued-at-sea-while-clinging-to-esky-wanted-after-huge-cocaine-haul-found-off-wa-coast-c-9755619
https://www.9news.com.au/national/nz-authorities-find-more-than-half-a-billion-dollars-worth-of-cocaine-found-floating-in-the-ocean/38499416-0cf0-453a-b430-03463cc18a43
Strewth! :D
It's that damned Namor screwing with my operation.
Don't fret, though, soon he'll be sleeping with the birdies...
Does that involve some sort of helium hat instead of cement socks?
:lol:
The crane which refuses to leave its human saviour (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-india-64833175)
Quote from: Fate Amenable to Change on 07 March, 2023, 11:10:58 PMThe crane which refuses to leave its human saviour (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-india-64833175)
The thread needed a feelgood story.
Fate provides.
I never thought I'd give a toss about anything Gary Lineker said or did: but now (if I was into hash-tags and what-not), I'd be all like #IStandWithGary
For those not following the story: the BBC is being whipped into submission by the Tories. Lineker criticized the government policy on refugees (which is to drown them, as far as I can tell), and has been told to stop pointing things out. (As has been noted, when he pointed out things about Qatar, it was fine.)
Also, he's being accused of a Godwin's Law style argument - except that comparing Tory rhetoric to Nazi rhetoric (where your enemies are dehumanized in the name of a fictional nationalist ideal) is an apt comparison.
The government lurches to the far right and demonises minorities to appease xenophobes, but the big scandal is that Gary Lineker said so.
Quote from: Fate Amenable to Change on 10 March, 2023, 06:55:42 PMI never thought I'd give a toss about anything Gary Lineker said or did: but now (if I was into hash-tags and what-not), I'd be all like #IStandWithGary
For those not following the story: the BBC is being whipped into submission by the Tories. Lineker criticized the government policy on refugees (which is to drown them, as far as I can tell), and has been told to stop pointing things out. (As has been noted, when he pointed out things about Qatar, it was fine.)
Also, he's being accused of a Godwin's Law style argument - except that comparing Tory rhetoric to Nazi rhetoric (where your enemies are dehumanized in the name of a fictional nationalist ideal) is an apt comparison.
Yeah, it's really bad when people get demonized for having opinions. Thank Grud that never happens here.
Look, the important thing is we focus on demonizing an English national hero*, instead of the policies he is criticizing.
A few years ago Nana Munchetty was admonished by the BBC for calling Trump out on his racism. A demonstably factual opinion. Now, ostensibly, the BBC employs it's news reporters and analysts to not have opinions and coldly present the facts of a story. The word ostensibly is doing a lot of heavy lifting there. So taken with a
pinch boulder of salt, you could see why the BBC took issue with that. She made a statement on the BBC as a BBC reporter
Gary Lineker is not a news reporter/analyst. He's not even a sports reporter/analyst. He presents a Saturday evening show where they whinge about referees in a sport that is played so cynically that it has become nigh impossible to referee.
He tweeted an opinion on an account the BBC don't own. They could have released a statement along the lines of "Mr Lineker's tweet does not represent the views and values** of the BBC"
But then we might be talking about how Brexit Britain's getting a bit shitty and backwards. To be fair, I don't think the Tories are Nazi's. They didn't originate in Bavaria, so it's just Sparkling Fascism.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 10 March, 2023, 07:14:38 PMYeah, it's really bad when people get demonized for having opinions. Thank Grud that never happens here.
I don't think I have ever full on demonized your opinions Shark, I just think you talk a load of bollocks sometimes.
*if you're a soccerite
**HAH!
I don't think I've ever been demonized on the boards but I have had my leg pulled a time or two, to put it kindly. Anyhoo, if I couldn't cope or had a thin skin, I wouldn't be here.
Quote from: Fate Amenable to Change on 10 March, 2023, 06:55:42 PM... comparing Tory rhetoric to Nazi rhetoric (where your enemies are dehumanized in the name of a fictional nationalist ideal) is an apt comparison.
It might be unhelpful to the debate to point out that Mr Linekar only observed that the language was similar to that of 1930's Germany. At no point did he reference that nice Mr Hitler's National Socialist Workers Party who were doing all that wonderful work rebuilding Germany's industry, infrastructure and national pride.
He could just as easily have been alluding to the German Communist Party who were involved in all sorts of dastardly deeds, nefarious activities and totally amoral practices.
I really don't understand why so many Tories have automatically assumed that he was comparing them to a group of racist, xenophobic fruitcakes ...
Fun to see all the other presenters say "well, if he's not welcome, I'm not rocking up either".
First time I've ever wanted to watch Match of the Day.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 10 March, 2023, 07:41:27 PMI don't think I've ever been demonized on the boards but I have had my leg pulled a time or two, to put it kindly. Anyhoo, if I couldn't cope or had a thin skin, I wouldn't be here.
Which kind of raises the question as to whether your previous post was sarcasm or not. I don't remember anyone being demonised, at least without the demoniser being subsequently banned or at least warned.
Sorry. I've done exactly what I've complained about others doing in the past, and derailed a thread about current affairs.
Back on topic,I have no interest in soccer at all but I'm shocked to see Gary Lineker has been forced off Match of the Day. I thought it was the woke leftists who cancelled people whose opinions offended them.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 11 March, 2023, 09:03:15 AMSorry. I've done exactly what I've complained about others doing in the past, and derailed a thread about current affairs.
Honestly, I think that was me. I'm still a bit sore about the last ban and general grief I got for questioning the political you-know-what narrative.
The apologies* should, and indeed do, come from me.
*for whingeing, not for questioning.
No problem. I've been banned too, i missed the memo where I couldn't call people a certain word, even if it was Nigel Farage.
Not being sarky there - there genuinely was a memo, and I missed it. So fair enough
Back on topic, I see the BBC are also not showing an episode of a David Attenborough documentary on ecological destruction, for fear of upsetting the right. But again, no, it's the left who are snowflakes and want to cancel everyone.
Nigel Farage is a real King Cnut, though. From Scunthorpe. What a cockatoo!
But, aye, the gammons love a bit of canceling. Mind, that prick Piers Mungo came out in support of Lineker's right to air his opinions.
Quote from: Fate Amenable to Change on 11 March, 2023, 03:03:56 PMNigel Farage is a real King Cnut, though. From Scunthorpe. What a cockatoo!
But, aye, the gammons love a bit of canceling. Mind, that prick Piers Mungo came out in support of Lineker's right to air his opinions.
Now there's a conundrum. I occasionally find myself cheering Piers on, but soon default to my usual position of wanting to knee him hard in the nads. Even a stopped clock, I suppose
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 11 March, 2023, 04:01:11 PMQuote from: Fate Amenable to Change on 11 March, 2023, 03:03:56 PMNigel Farage is a real King Cnut, though. From Scunthorpe. What a cockatoo!
But, aye, the gammons love a bit of canceling. Mind, that prick Piers Mungo came out in support of Lineker's right to air his opinions.
Now there's a conundrum. I occasionally find myself cheering Piers on, but soon default to my usual position of wanting to knee him hard in the nads. Even a stopped clock, I suppose
Morgan doesn't believe a word he says though. If he thought he'd get more clicks with the opposite opinion he'd change his view in a heartbeat.
Ah - it's the (frustrated, angry, vitriolic) voice of reason - it's Jonathan Pie:
Lineker V Braverman (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXqVGtxFppQ)
(https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/9c19661c85410e5f1003a6c4b3e1336bf0bfff10/0_116_3478_2087/master/3478.jpg?width=700&quality=85&dpr=1&s=none)
Not sure if this image has been Photoshopped or not (the sign does look a bit dodgy to me), but it's amusing nonetheless.
(https://www.udrop.com/cache/plugins/filepreviewer/888333/3ae7640e66ddd74a3c044e5601e72fe2efcd3bbdf9ac37b4f16bdff6c8fa66eb/1100x800_cropped.jpg)
This really has nothing to do with me, but I feel bound to point out that Charles has so far failed to pull a sword from a stone or drive the giants from Britain.
I assume that's an anti-monarchy thing but "not my king" suggests they'd be happy with a different one, which begs the question - which one?
Elvis? Simba? Kong? Stephen? Mrs? Rollo? Bruce Campbell?
If l had a vote it would be for the Mighty Kong - naturally.
There's nothing in the Act of Settlement of 1701 that precludes a giant ape from assuming the throne (provided, of course, that the ape isn't Catholic).
I think even the staunchest Royalist would agree that Chuck 3 is not my king.
If I had to have one, it would probably be Miss King, our old religious teacher at school. Not only was she young and attractive, but she also let us smoke in her car.
If we're not careful we could end up with Jareth, the Goblin King. There's a future I'd rather not think about.
I quite fancy King from the videogame Tekken. He became a wrestler to support an orphanage! But surely The Lion King is the most apt for England, plus he might eat Suella Braverman.
I don't need a king because I already am one - the King of Me.
From The Anglo-Saxon Chronicle for the year 855,
The ancestors of Aethelwulf. King of the West Saxons:
Aethelwulf was Egbert's offspring, Egbert Ealhmund's offspring, Ealhmund Eafa's offspring, Eafa Eoppa's offspring, Eoppa Ingeld's offspring; Ingeld was the brother of Ine, king of Wessex, who afterwards travelled to St Peter's and afterwards gave up his life there; and they were the sons of Cenred; Cenred was Ceolwald's offspring, Ceolwald Cutha's offspring, Cutha Cuthwine's offspring, Cuthwine Ceawlin's offspring, Ceawlin Cynric's offspring, Cynric Cerdic's offspring, Cerdic Elesa's offspring, Elesa Esla's offspring, Esla Gewis's offspring, Gewis Wig's offspring, Wig Freawine's offspring, Freawine Frithugar's offspring, Frithugar Brand's offspring, Brand Baeldaeg's offspring, Baeldaeg Woden's offspring.
Anyway, what all of this means is that Charles, by the Grace of God, King, Defender of the Faith, claims descent from Woden the one-eyed slaughter god.
I don't remember hearing anything about that in last September's proclamation.
Are they ashamed of it or something?
We can all play that game.
As a descendant of Adam and Eve, my lineage goes all the way back to God Himself.
Bow before me, Charlie!
Pshaw! Adam and Eve were only created by God from clay. I've got Sinclairs in my family tree, which means not only could I be directly descended from Jesus Christ, and thus God Himself, (if you believe those "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" type books), but I may also be distantly related to David Mitchell!
My surname, Woollatt, is derived from 'Wulfgeat' (according to Google anyway).
After the 1066 conquest, the Wulfgeats are listed as 'tenants-in-chief' of lands held by the crown.
So... I might not be in line for the throne, but I'll happily look after a castle or two for whichever one of you lot gets it! ;)
Talking of King Cnut - he had a son, you know. His name was Harthacnut.
---
The DG of the BBC is spouting quite a lot of doublespeak at the moment. Somehow he's translated the gagging of a sport pundit (who had the temerity to speak truth to power in his spare time) with the concept of promoting free speech.
Surely he's read 1984. Does he think it's a manual?
There must be a flow chart for this sort of thing: "IF the government tries to silence the press THEN tell them to fuck off." It's not rocket science.
My name, Mark Howard, means Mars Hog-Warden.
Therefore, my ineffable name is Wargod Pigwatcher.
I may start using that as my signature...
Silicon Valley Bank - domino #1.
Signature Bank - domino #2.
Brace yourselves...
I'm a Walsh. Which, uninspiringly, means Welsh. Kenneth Branagh's surname, weirdly, is exactly the same name, but whoever anglicised his went for approximate phonetics instead of a translation.
Back on topic, it seems like the BBC's new deal with Gary Lineker goes something like: 'Delete it.' 'No.' 'Apologise.' 'No.' 'Refrain from similar tweets in future.' 'No.' 'Right then, grab a microphone, Gary, you've got yourself a deal.'
Massive fuckup from the BBC this time. Seems like the British public are a lot less xenophobic and psychopathic than the Tories were hoping.
Not a Walsh, but my cousins are. Their uncles include my dad and a Walsh that some people on this board have probably seen on TV (doing gardening and home improvement stuff).
Quote from: sheridan on 14 March, 2023, 09:32:44 AMNot a Walsh, but my cousins are. Their uncles include my dad and a Walsh that some people on this board have probably seen on TV (doing gardening and home improvement stuff).
My first thought was Bradley, before I read the bit in brackets. Sheridan is a common surname in my town, though I think it's your first name?
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 14 March, 2023, 11:58:23 AMQuote from: sheridan on 14 March, 2023, 09:32:44 AMNot a Walsh, but my cousins are. Their uncles include my dad and a Walsh that some people on this board have probably seen on TV (doing gardening and home improvement stuff).
My first thought was Bradley, before I read the bit in brackets. Sheridan is a common surname in my town, though I think it's your first name?
Yep - my family name is Kelly - we did some family tracing not long ago. Our family lived around what was London and is now Central London (including just around the corner from the present Forbidden Planet, two centuries ago) and before that Limerick.
First Republic Bank - domino #3.
Cash under the mattress time.
James O'Brien detailing how language used in Britain in the 30s (about European Jews fleeing Nazi Germany and being deported as "illegals") is very similar to that being used by Suella Braverman, the Tories in general and the British press.
Refugees on small boats are *not* illegal, says James O'Brien | LBC (https://youtu.be/f8eTTLh_Yyc)
Nothing to do with a football pundit, although the newly "gagged" Lineker did post this on Twatter:
"...however difficult the last few days have been, it simply doesn't compare to having to flee your home from persecution or war to seek refuge in a land far away."
---
And, to try to stay on topic: Gary Lineker means "Spear in a Flax-Field". My real name means "Messenger in a Flax-Settlement". Lots of flax around.
James O'Brien means "Substitute Exalted One"
Funt Solo means "Peaceful Germanic Currency".
Ken Niemand means "Handsome New Man".
I really don't wish to bring the rather sombre core at the heart of this matter down to the level of silliness, but my full name mean 'The Lord Has Remembered."
Quite what he has remembered, eludes me even to this day.
We could have a great time RPGing with these names.
Messenger in a Flax-Settlement accidentally farts, attracting four Level Six Godpletons. The Lord Has Remembered casts a spell of befuddlement on the Godpletons (throw a D10) and Wargod Pigwatcher runs away (throw a D6).
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 14 March, 2023, 06:49:25 PMI really don't wish to bring the rather sombre core at the heart of this matter down to the level of silliness, but my full name mean 'The Lord Has Remembered."
Quite what he has remembered, eludes me even to this day.
Pity Pat's left us; there could have been a bit part for you in
Defoe.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 14 March, 2023, 07:13:03 PMWe could have a great time RPGing with these names.
Messenger in a Flax-Settlement accidentally farts, attracting four Level Six Godpletons. The Lord Has Remembered casts a spell of befuddlement on the Godpletons (throw a D10) and Wargod Pigwatcher runs away (throw a D6).
I beleive the normal parlance is to "roll" a die, instead of "throw"ing it, but I prefer the mental image of RPG opponents pelting each other with platonic polyhedra.
My full name means "devotee of Saint Columba - God is gracious - church".
None of my family is religious, (despite Jesus apparently being my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather, or whatever).
Quote from: M.I.K. on 15 March, 2023, 12:21:31 AMNone of my family is religious, (despite Jesus apparently being my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather, or whatever).
So what you're telling us is your ancestor took a gap year in Jerusalem and decided to make it his/her personality.
Got ya.
Credit Suisse and now Deutsche Bank - what domino number are we up to now?
Not to worry, though - I'm sure the Central Bank Digital Currencies will solve everything. How lucky that these will be ready to go soon, to save us from, er, the mismanagement of the central banks...
Seems our "government" thinks it's a good idea to sell depleted uranium shells to Ukraine. Given the long-lasting and devastating effects still being suffered by human beings in Iraq, this is utterly monstrous.
I've been teaching a lot of military history in recent years, and although I'm a lefty peacenik and I try to be objective and scholarly, I can't deny that I retain a little boy's fascination for things that go kablooie.
But I don't have much stomach for it this past year and this news disgusts and depresses me.
Quote from: M.I.K. on 15 March, 2023, 12:21:31 AMMy full name means "devotee of Saint Columba - God is gracious - church".
None of my family is religious, (despite Jesus apparently being my great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfather, or whatever).
I'm sorry but anyone who would like to claim this sort of ancestry needs to review Mr Ennis' analysis of the full genetic evolution of the Jesuit family tree. One that leaves the Windsor family tree looking utterly normal ...
Dinnae blame me, I'm just stating what the Dan Brown types would have you believe, (although re: my comment on the previous page, it is quite likely that I'm distantly related to David Mitchell).
I've no wish to actually be descended from Jesus, and to be honest, he'd probably be considered the black shepherd of the family, (coincidentally an occupation you needn't go too far back to find within my actual family tree).
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 24 March, 2023, 04:31:21 PMCredit Suisse and now Deutsche Bank - what domino number are we up to now?
I've been too apathetic to look, and I wouldn't understand any of it anyway. All I know is that I get a cheeky letter every few weeks telling me my mortgage payments are going up again.
Back in the last crash my bank printed off a handy graph showing what had happened to my life savings. It looked like a drawing of a steep cliff with little pointy rocks at the bottom.
"Jesus," I said, even though I wasn't too surprised.
"Yeah, I know," said the bank monkey. "How did they let that happen?"
They?
They?
THEY?
Throughout history there has been a quiet struggle going on. Sometimes the people control money creation and society flourishes. Sometimes money is created by a very few and society suffers, as it is suffering now. Neither one can sustain itself indefinitely.
This is the true economic cycle.
To curb the excesses of both, the cycle must be broken and another way found. In my view, this would be one of the major steps towards true global civilization.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 29 March, 2023, 08:48:12 PMSometimes the people control money creation and society flourishes
Not snark — I'm genuinely curious. When has this ever happened?
In Rome. One of the cesars (I forget which one off the top of my head but I want to say Julius because this factor played an important part in his assassination) took control of money creation (which, at the time, consisted of confiscating the wealth of conquered peoples into the public purse instead of into the private hands of the generals, governors, senators, etc.) and spent it into society through massive public projects such as aqueducts, stadia and roads. Doing it this way meant that the state no longer had to borrow from private sources at interest and pass the cost onto the people through taxes.
The main difference between publicly created money and privately created is the need for interest. Publicly created money requires virtually no interest, just enough to run the system, but privately created money bears the interest the creators decide is right. In the Christian tradition, making money from money is called usury and regarded as a sin. The money changers outside the temple (who sold "temple coins*" to worshipers) wound Jesus up so much that he lost his temper with them. No matter one's view of the veracity, or otherwise, of the Bible, it at least displays an awareness of the dangers of usury - which have been ignored and now stifle virtually the whole world.
(I think Jim knows most of this, especially the stuff about usury, so I'm not trying to teach my granny to suck eggs - I'm just showing off...)
*Temple coins were sold as a kind of holy coin, the only currency valid in the House of God as common coins were too dirty and nasty and horrid to be accepted into His treasury. The money changers (not money lenders, as is commonly misquoted) sold temple coins to the faithful at whatever rate they liked and the priests then sold the temple coins back to the money changers so that everyone - except the faithful, of course - made a tidy profit. Money from nothing, see? That's basically how the banking system works today, though it's obfuscated to buggery.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 29 March, 2023, 11:47:12 PMobfuscated to buggery.
I think I saw that Portillo train journey, he had his little Bradshaw in his hand.
This one has an odd and twisted path, but it goes something like this:
1. Disney owns a theme park in Florida.
2. Florida's Ron DeSantis passes a regressive anti-LGBT+ law (aka "Don't say gay").
3. Disney calls it out as regressive.
4. DeSantis moves to take over the running of the theme park as a punishment.
5. Disney sneaks a clause into their legal agreements the day before the takeover.
The clause says Disney can veto anything they're told to do until "21 years after the death of the last survivor of the descendants of King Charles III, king of England"
Longer story here: Disney sidesteps DeSantis board with royal clause (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65120369)
US legislation appears to be bonkers.
In some American states, children as young as 9 can apparently judge for themselves about such monumental, life-altering decisions as taking sex-change hormones, agreeing to the (CENSORED) injections without parental consent or even knowledge and whatnot - but, in Maryland:
A Democratic delegate proposed a law in Maryland that would bar anyone under 25 years of age from being charged with felony murder.
...supporters of the bill say that the brain is not fully developed before age 25, so issuing so harsh a sentence is unfair. (https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/courts/democrat-maryland-law-under-25-no-felony-murder)
What the actual flip is going on over there?
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 02 April, 2023, 06:50:53 PMWhat the actual flip is going on over there?
Murderous Futsies running amok in primary schools and the orange Bad Bob Booth having a second run at power?
Going by the escalating turmoil over decades and current state of affairs, the Meggers future can only be Block Mania breaking out in isolated States, followed by a Nationwide Block War.
:o
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 02 April, 2023, 06:50:53 PMIn some American states, children as young as 9 can apparently judge for themselves about such monumental, life-altering decisions as taking sex-change hormones
Going to have to correct you on this one Shark, there isn't a single state in the US where anyone taking sex change hormones can be any younger than 16, if it's legal at all.
What you are thinking of is hormone blocker medication, which is none permanent (to reverse the effects you simply stop taking them, and there are no indicators of any long or short term detrimental effects) and are used for a wide array of reasons outside of transitioning.
It should also be pointed out that "felony murder" isn't the same as just "murder".
Quote from: WikipediaThe rule of felony murder is a legal doctrine in some common law jurisdictions that broadens the crime of murder: when someone is killed (regardless of intent to kill) in the commission of a dangerous or enumerated crime (called a felony in some jurisdictions), the offender, and also the offender's accomplices or co-conspirators, may be found guilty of murder.
The rule was abolished in Ireland, Northern Ireland, England and Wales in the 1960s and didn't exist in Scottish law to begin with.
Hawkie, I'm not going to debate the ins and outs of individual treatments. My point is that parents are being further and further removed from involvement in such decisions for minors. In California (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cGam-dic1oRNKf7nhpx4XhIygVIa0mK-/view), senators are disagreeing over this aspect (consent) across several "sensitive services," which are defined as "all health care services related to mental or behavioral health, sexual and reproductive health, sexually transmitted infections, substance use disorder, gender affirming care, and intimate partner violence." You are correct, though, it's not 9 years of age, but 12.
The age 9 has been applied in cases of that-which-cannot-be-mentioned, not "sensitive services," sorry about that.
M.I.K., it's not the nature of the legislation which I am criticising, it's the illogic of having an age limit of 25 imposed on some, 12 on some, and 9 on others. A person aged 9 or 12 can consent to some life-altering things without parental input (presumably because their brains are developed enough), but can't join the armed forces, consume alcohol, have sex etc. My point is that arguing that pre-teens can consent to such monumental decisions does not fit with the idea that under 25s cannot be held responsible for certain crimes.
A good friend of mine (here in the UK) has been told by the NHS that she cannot make a decision on that-which-cannot-be-mentioned for her 14 year old daughter, but that her daughter must contact the NHS herself to decline treatment because the age of consent for that-which-cannot-be-mentioned is now 12.
I am not a parent, thank God, but if I was I'm pretty sure I'd want to be involved in such decisions.
Bit baffled by your inclusion, not of evidence to support your point, but a random letter denouncing the existence of the point you're trying to make. :|
That letter was ignored and the bill was passed.
Now, unless there's an entirely AB 1184, that just so happened to be passed in September 2021, in the state of California no less, that actually DOES specify that 12 year old's can consent to exclude parental counsel in regards to medical matters I'd love to see it.
Because I just read the whole bill three times over and it sure as anything doesn't. (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202120220AB1184)
Probably because it's an amendment to existing legislation.
The bill states:
(l) "Protected individual" means any adult covered by the subscriber's health care service plan or a minor who can consent to a health care service without the consent of a parent or legal guardian, pursuant to state or federal law. "Protected individual" does not include an individual that lacks the capacity to give informed consent for health care pursuant to Section 813 of the Probate Code. (My emphasis.)
One such piece of existing legislation (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?sectionNum=16001.9.&lawCode=WIC) states:
(25) At 12 years of age or older, to choose, whenever feasible and in accordance with applicable law, their own health care provider for medical, dental, vision, mental health, substance use disorder services, and sexual and reproductive health care, if payment for the service is authorized under applicable federal Medicaid law or other approved insurance, and to communicate with that health care provider regarding any treatment concerns or needs and to request a second opinion before being required to undergo invasive medical, dental, or psychiatric treatment. (My emphasis.)
Okay, so what?
That former piece of legislation applies to medical insurance whilst the latter applies to children in foster care, so what's the problem?
To some, it's an indication that the emotive subject of gender change is going to be forced on children. To me, this argument is rubbish and is presented to imply that anyone questioning it is against all gender issues and only frothing lunatics think this way.
If I were to apply it to my own hobby-horse of creeping totalitarianism I would say that it opens the door another inch on something like the following scenario:
Let's say that That-Which-Cannot-be-Mentioned II arises. The "government" mandates Procedure X for TWCbM II. Some parents disagree and refuse to undergo Procedure X for them or their children. The parents are deemed to be endangering their children. Their children are taken into care, becoming "protected individuals," who can then be tricked, convinced, or coerced into accepting Procedure X.
But that's not my argument here. My argument is that cherry-picking the age of consent differently for different things is not logical but is dangerous.
NASA are sending people to the moon again. Including a black man and a woman.
Which is nice.
Just wondering, Sharky, why are you saying that procedure can't be mentioned? I've heard loads of people talking about it.
Mr Pops - nice one, great to hear.
Because of this. (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46306.msg1057019#new)
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 04 April, 2023, 05:10:51 PMBecause of this. (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46306.msg1057019#new)
Oh, i see. I misunderstood- I should have read your post more carefully.
NATO is Finnished
Meanwhile, here in the US, there have been more mass shootings so far this year than days.
The collective stupidity of the "greatest nation on Earth" is well evidenced by this sheriff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0PHqXb5VLE) from Florida coming to the conclusion that restricting gun ownership is definitely not the solution.
(Even though that works well everywhere else it's been tried.)
USA == weird death cult.
We only really hear about mass shootings in America when it's not a your typical angry white boy doing it.
So we very rarely hear about them.
Indeed. In Tennessee (where the most recent school shooting took place) they're trying desperately to pass an anti-drag law that would (if applied in the UK) make pantomimes illegal. And re-runs of Monkey, one presumes. Nothing on guns, though.
The funniest one I heard about is a Texas law that's trying to ban men performing in public wearing make-up.
So no rodeo clowns or KISS concerts.
(Quote - 10 April 2023, 22:50:36)
"In Tennessee (where the most recent school shooting took place) they're trying desperately to pass an anti-drag law that would (if applied in the UK) make pantomimes illegal. And re-runs of Monkey, one presumes. Nothing on guns, though."
Once again, the msm is misrepresenting the truth.
The Tennessee bill (https://legiscan.com/TN/text/SB0003/2023) actually defines "Adult cabaret entertainment" as:
...adult-oriented performances that are harmful to minors, as that term is defined in § 39-17-901, and that feature topless dancers, go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators, or similar entertainers...
It makes it an offense for a person to perform adult cabaret entertainment:
(A) On public property; or
(B) In a location where the adult cabaret entertainment could be viewed by a person who is not an adult.
Which is not an "anti-drag law" and neither would it ban children's pantomimes at all.
One wonders how msm "reporters" take this to represent such lunacy, and why. Seems like a way of stirring up trouble and driving wedges between people, to me.
Quote from: Credo! on 10 April, 2023, 06:58:32 PMUSA == weird death cult.
I know we're far from as gun free a nation as I would like us to be (being the resident Manc that I am, experienced more than my fare share of gangland shootings) but it is quite nice knowing there's a decent chunk of our society that is actively repulsed at the idea of even handling a weapon, let alone owning one and making it readily available to school kids.
Just a wholly alien concept.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 April, 2023, 07:33:53 AM(Quote - 10 April 2023, 22:50:36)
"In Tennessee (where the most recent school shooting took place) they're trying desperately to pass an anti-drag law that would (if applied in the UK) make pantomimes illegal. And re-runs of Monkey, one presumes. Nothing on guns, though."
Once again, the msm is misrepresenting the truth.
The Tennessee bill (https://legiscan.com/TN/text/SB0003/2023) actually defines "Adult cabaret entertainment" as:
...adult-oriented performances that are harmful to minors, as that term is defined in § 39-17-901, and that feature topless dancers, go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators, or similar entertainers...
It makes it anoffense for a person to perform adult cabaret entertainment:
(A)Onpublic property; or
(B)Inalocationwheretheadultcabaretentertainment couldbe viewed by a person who is not an adult.
Which is not an "anti-drag law" and neither would it ban children's pantomimes at all.
One wonders how msm "reporters" take this to represent such lunacy, and why. Seems like a way of stirring up trouble and driving wedges between people, to me.
So it's not the legislators driving wedges then?
So, the bit you quoted defined 'adult-oriented performances' as including "male or female impersonators" so as mentioned earlier, this would include British pantomimes.
Anyone else think it's incredibly funny Shark entirely denies the existence of government, right up until they pass a piece of legislation that happens to vaguely correspond with whatever contrary opinion he holds at that moment, subject to his entirely erratic moral compass.
It really is rather exhausting.
Hawkie - I'm actually pointing out that the msm is misreporting the facts. That's a million miles away from supporting anything except, perhaps, honest journalism.
Sheridan - it would disallow children from attending adult pantomimes. Also, wedges come from many institutions.
Addendum: I do not deny the "existence" of government (there is clearly a whole apparatus and legions of people devoted to it), but I do deny their overweening, self-awarded powers.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 April, 2023, 10:13:50 AMSheridan - it would disallow children from attending adult pantomimes. Also, wedges come from many institutions.
The part about male or female impersonators was defining what an adult performance was - and that definition would include any male actor impersonating a female character or female actor impersonating a male character, which would (in this country) put all pantomimes in the 'adult entertainment' category and (worldwide) mean that it would be illegal to perform certain Shakespeare plays to children (not a Shakespeare expert, but Twelth Night comes to mind and a very quick google search adds Two Gentlemen of Verona, Cymbeline, Merchant of Venice, As You Like It...)
It's the same as the homophobic attitude that any mention at all of homosexuality is 'adult' in nature. Which leads to gay men being physically assaulted for holding hands in public, whereas a man holding the hand of a woman wouldn't get a second glance.
I think that's conflating the definition with the rule, and also ignores the initial "adult-oriented performances" statement. I think there's a big difference between the child-oriented Widow Twanky and the adult-oriented Widow Wan*y. If you want to see the former, go to a pantomime (I'm sure Christopher Biggins would appreciate the work), and if you want to see the latter, go to an adult club. This is what the legislation says, in essence; that the one should not be mixed with the other where children are concerned. I think that's good advice, in general - and that legislation can only ever be advisory and should never be confused with law, which is informative.
I have no problem with anyone holding hands in public, so long as it's consensual.
I used to watch Cupid Stunt on the Kenny Everett Show when I was still in single digits. He was a man in drag making sexual innuendos; and it was considered family TV.
Ah, but that was all done in the best possible taste...
(https://avatars.mds.yandex.net/i?id=db9b302cdf6875899e1cd2b5bd6f0bedd5a1dfcc-7552414-images-thumbs&n=13&exp=1)
I do miss Kenny :'(
Shark, I don't think your interpretation aligns with the bill's actual intention.
If it's not an anti-drag law then why does it mention male/female impersonation at all? Why does it specify it among a load of stuff that's always adult orientated? If the problem is the type of adult humour that may be used, then why is that not mentioned anywhere?
Nope. They've definitely got a problem with the whole cross-dressing thing.
Well, that's where you have me at a disadvantage. I have no idea about the intentions of the framers, I'm just going off what it actually says. Guessing at intentions is an entirely different argument, one in which I do not wish to engage.
The context, however, is towards "adult-oriented male/female impersonators" - there is no mention of "child-oriented male/female impersonators."
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 April, 2023, 03:07:53 PMWell, that's where you have me at a disadvantage. I have no idea about the intentions of the framers, I'm just going off what it actually says. Guessing at intentions is an entirely different argument, one in which I do not wish to engage.
Unless it's about your entirely hypothetical connections between gender affirmation therapy and vaccine conspiracy theories, of course.
Quote from: page 36/7 of this here ThreadIf I were to apply it to my own hobby-horse of creeping totalitarianism I would say that it opens the door another inch on something like the following scenario:
Let's say that That-Which-Cannot-be-Mentioned II arises. The "government" mandates Procedure X for TWCbM II. Some parents disagree and refuse to undergo Procedure X for them or their children. The parents are deemed to be endangering their children. Their children are taken into care, becoming "protected individuals," who can then be tricked, convinced, or coerced into accepting Procedure X.
But that's not my argument here. My argument is that cherry-picking the age of consent differently for different things is not logical but is dangerous.
I think I'm going to side with US district judge Thomas Parker on this one:
Judge blocks law restricting drag shows in Tennessee (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/apr/01/judge-blocks-law-restricting-drag-shows-in-tennessee)
What started this? Reactionary right-wing homophobes freaking out about cross-dressers reading stories to children in libraries. (Not very far removed, I'm sure we can all agree, from Kenny Everett's Cupid Stunt act, or from pantomimes.)
Quote"male or female impersonators" are now classified as a form of adult cabaret, akin to strippers and topless, go-go and exotic dancers.
Quote"The law prohibits a drag performer wearing a crop top and miniskirt from dancing where minors might see it, but does not prohibit a Tennessee Titans cheerleader wearing an identical outfit from performing the exact same dance in front of children,"
---
Just an as aside - "That-Which-Cannot-be-Mentioned" already got a thread locked because of a stubborn refusal to drop the subject. Please don't bang that drum on this thread because I quite like this house and I don't want it set on fire. Take your arson elsewhere. Please. I do my very best to avoid interacting with you on the board - but you seem determined to follow me around and bang your little drum. Please - it's a big house - with just a little effort it could seem like we're not even in the same one. Please.
Quote from: Credo! on 11 April, 2023, 03:30:11 PMJust an as aside - "That-Which-Cannot-be-Mentioned" already got a thread locked because of a stubborn refusal to drop the subject. Please don't bang that drum on this thread because I quite like this house and I don't want it set on fire. Take your arson elsewhere. Please. I do my very best to avoid interacting with you on the board - but you seem determined to follow me around and bang your little drum. Please - it's a big house - with just a little effort it could seem like we're not even in the same one. Please.
Noted and for my part (and many sins) apologise.
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 11 April, 2023, 03:38:40 PMNoted and for my part (and many sins) apologise.
Aw, mate - I didn't mean you - you were just reacting and trying to reason.
So, that's it? Conversation over because you no like?
You guys crack me up :lol:
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 April, 2023, 07:33:53 AMThe Tennessee bill (https://legiscan.com/TN/text/SB0003/2023) actually defines "Adult cabaret entertainment" as:
...adult-oriented performances that are harmful to minors, as that term is defined in § 39-17-901 (tel:39-17-901), and that feature topless dancers, go-go dancers, exotic dancers, strippers, male or female impersonators, or similar entertainers...
To be fair to the Shark, it only applies to a performance that is "harmful to minors", which is defined as:
- "Harmful to minors" means that quality of any description or representation, in whatever form, of nudity, sexual excitement, sexual conduct, excess violence or sadomasochistic abuse when the matter or performance:
- Would be found by the average person applying contemporary community standards to appeal predominantly to the prurient, shameful or morbid interests of minors;
- Is patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community as a whole with respect to what is suitable for minors; and
- Taken as whole lacks serious literary, artistic, political or scientific values for minors;
https://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2021/title-39/chapter-17/part-9/section-39-17-901/
So it wouldn't apply to the kind of drag acts that are actually happening in schools.
However, I doubt that the intent of the legislators is really quite as innocent as Mr Shark suggests. It probably is happening so that conservative politicians can tell voters they are "doing something" about drag acts (knowing full well that the average voter won't check up on what the bill actually says). The public perception of what the law says (as opposed to what it actually says or what judges and lawyers would make of it) can still be very harmful; it can have a "chilling effect" on free speech (because people misunderstand what they can or can't do), and it can still feed anti-trans sentiment.
It's definitely newsworthy, in my view.
I did not say that the intent was innocent. I said that I didn't know.
We can all guess at intent, as I did earlier in a different conversation that Hawkie pointed out, but guessing don't make it so.
Quote from: Richard on 11 April, 2023, 04:51:38 PMIt probably is happening so that conservative politicians can tell voters they are "doing something" about drag acts (knowing full well that the average voter won't check up on what the bill actually says). The public perception of what the law says (as opposed to what it actually says or what judges and lawyers would make of it) can still be very harmful; it can have a "chilling effect" on free speech (because people misunderstand what they can or can't do), and it can still feed anti-trans sentiment.
I would call this a fairly logical assumption regarding intent, but it could just as easily be something else or a combination of factors.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 April, 2023, 04:40:04 PMSo, that's it? Conversation over because you no like?
You guys crack me up :lol:
I took it to mean he didn't want another current affairs thread locked by mods.
I guess we'll never know his true intent...
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 11 April, 2023, 05:41:45 PMI took it to mean he didn't want another current affairs thread locked by mods.
Exactly what I meant - yes. And I even said please - four times. Sometimes getting on your knees and begging seems like the only option left.
I'm surprised you are defending ANY law, Sharky, given that you think people know how to behave so long as they arent told how to behave and society can organise itself just fine without anyone handing down any proclamations about what can and cant be done?
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 April, 2023, 05:43:34 PMI guess we'll never know his true intent...
On reflection, it does seem like a perfectly reasonable law, and I think we can all assume nothing but positive intent from those crafting it. I mean, it's not as if any Nazis are involved, or anything.
QuoteDrag shows across Tennessee have faced opposition from local governments in recent months, in addition to protests at recent drag performances at Diskin Cider in Nashville and other locations. In January, masked protestors brandished Nazi slogans and chanted anti-LGBTQ slurs outside a Cookeville event, WPLN reported.
Gov. Bill Lee signs ban on gender-affirming care for minors, drag restrictions into law (https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2023/03/02/tennessee-governor-bill-lee-signs-anti-trans-bill-drag-restrictions-into-law/69937336007/)
Leigh, it's legislation (which, as I've said, is perfectly fine as advice), not law, and examining its wording is not defending it. The majority of people do know how to behave; I mean, do you refrain from murder, rape, and theft because you know it's wrong or because the government (which contains a high proportion of murderers (warmongers), rapists (Epstein-type clients), and thieves (tax demanders)) tells you so?
Aaand... here come the Nazis. So I guess you "win," Solo. Well done. Give yourself a big pat on the back.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 April, 2023, 06:38:26 PMit's legislation (which, as I've said, is perfectly fine as advice), not law
You keep saying this. I think your dictionary may be defective.
Encyclopedia Britannica:
Quotelegislation, the preparing and enacting of laws by local, state, or national legislatures.
Merriam Webster:
Quotethe action of legislating
specifically: the exercise of the power and function of making rules (such as laws) that have the force of authority by virtue of their promulgation by an official organ of a state or other organization
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 April, 2023, 06:38:26 PMAaand... here come the Nazis. So I guess you "win," Solo. Well done. Give yourself a big pat on the back.
I don't think it can
technically be classed as Godwin's Law if someone's comparing actual swastikaed-up nazis to nazis, especially when one tried to burn down a church because of a story-telling drag event for children just a couple of weeks ago.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 11 April, 2023, 06:38:26 PMLeigh, it's legislation (which, as I've said, is perfectly fine as advice), not law,
Legislation is law. A person might not like it, but it is law. And I am going to bite - although I usually refrain - and ask two questions, Sharky.
First, if legislation is not law... then what is it? An answer along the lines of it being rules imposed by an undemocratic state (etc) does not stack up, because it can still be law. In fact, you can get bad law. But it is law.
Because, second, what is your definition of law? It's rules that a society expects its members to follow. And if you accept democratic theory, accepting that democracy may not work, then the theory is that if enough members don't like a law then they can vote to change it. You... legislate... for change.
Yeah - that's a common misinterpretation of Godwin's Law that he's found himself face-palming at.
Godwin's Law is:
A - I think trifle is a nice desert.
[an argument on the relative merit of trifle ensues]
Z - You fucking Nazi!
Godwin's Law is not:
A - Hitler was a Nazi.
B - You've failed because you mentioned Nazis!
Poor old Godwin - he was expecting an understanding of something that wouldn't trouble to call itself a nuance.
All – we closed the politics thread for a reason and I don't want to see that happen again. Please move on from this topic forthwith - and without any 'final word' posts. Thank you.
Two men accused of trying to sell rare Anglo-Saxon coins to undercover police (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/11/two-men-accused-trying-sell-rare-anglo-saxon-coins-viking-hoard-undercover-police)
Total misunderstanding!
It just so happened that the Time Travellers' Bureau de Change was shut.
The Plastic Paddy President is in town (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65234789)
So I get to work from home until next Thursday.
Which is nice.
But why don't they let him retire? He's sooooooo old. He was alive before the troubles kicked off. Feck, he was probably alive before the partition.
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 11 April, 2023, 08:42:47 PMBut why don't they let him retire? He's sooooooo old.
He is approximately five million years old - it's really difficult to count the rings when you slice him in half.
Most people are pleased that we have a "gently nodding off president who didn't quite catch that" because it was better than (and I quote) a "gerbil-headed, wood-stained, haunted spunk-trumpet."
Anything would have been. A dead Biden, continually on ice (like Leonid Brezhnev in old Spitting Image) would be fine. We just want the government to function, and not turn into a fascist state. Sleepy Joe is exactly what's needed.
Quote from: Credo! on 11 April, 2023, 08:51:08 PM... it's really difficult to count the rings when you slice him in half.
I certainly wouldn't have enough fingers. Despite all the inbreeding.
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 11 April, 2023, 07:13:23 PMLegislation is law.
See I don't think Dredd standing between two Citi-blocks shouting "I AM THE LEGISLATION!!!!!" carries the same ring personally ...
QuotePolice in North Carolina are searching for a man accused of shooting a 6-year-old girl and her father after their basketball rolled into the suspect's yard.
QuoteIn Texas, 18-year-old cheerleader ... was shot and seriously injured ... after she mistakenly tried to enter the wrong vehicle.
QuoteIn New York state, 20-year-old ... was shot and killed on Saturday after a friend drove their car down the wrong driveway.
Quote...in Missouri, 16-year-old ... was shot in the head and arm when he rang the doorbell at the wrong address.
This is America.
Quote from: Credo! on 20 April, 2023, 06:11:17 PMThis is America.
I think you will find that the correct lyrics are ...
"This is not America,
Nah, Nah, Nah, Nah Nah ..."
Quote from: Credo! on 20 April, 2023, 06:11:17 PMThis is America.
Childish Gambino's lawyer is on the phone, a cease and desist is in the post.
Quote from: Credo! on 20 April, 2023, 06:11:17 PMQuoteIn New York state, 20-year-old ... was shot and killed on Saturday after a friend drove their car down the wrong driveway.
This is America.
And to make that a little more detailed, highlighting just how bad it is...
They were driving away after accidentally driving in to the wrong driveway. i.e. there was absolutely zero threat from them at that point (even if you were particularly paranoid).
Last night a delivery driver tried to mistakenly deliver something in a plastic bag to us (some sort of takeaway). Sobering to think that in the USA that could have resulted in their death.
Well, he'll probably be a future presidential advisor, Fox is still Fox, Murica is still Murica, but... I'm happy Tucker Carlson is gone.
It's a weird story - I'm guessing he got fired because he admitted he didn't believe anything he was reporting - and those admissions helped to cost Murdoch rather a lot of $$$.
Here's the odd part: people who watch Fox News won't have heard of any of that.
Quote from: Credo! on 25 April, 2023, 06:39:27 PMIt's a weird story - I'm guessing he got fired because he admitted he didn't believe anything he was reporting
Which shows what an insidious little viper the man truly is. But yeah, I suppose quite a sizeable chunk of the US will believe a very different version of events.
Michelle O'Neill has accepted an invitation to see Chucky Windsor put on his special hat.
Which is nice
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 26 April, 2023, 02:42:28 PMMichelle O'Neill has accepted an invitation to see Chucky Windsor put on his special hat.
Which is nice
What's that whirring sound I hear?
Quote from: Proudhuff on 05 May, 2023, 04:22:54 PMWhat's that whirring sound I hear?
Is it Molcher's automatic thread-locker? [It's a joke! A joke! For the love of Grud!]
(https://i.imgur.com/AsJTlwG.png)
Never heard of King Dimbleby.
Quote from: Credo! on 05 May, 2023, 04:26:08 PMIs it Molcher's automatic thread-locker? [It's a joke! A joke! For the love of Grud!]
It might start with a joke, but the next thing you know you're openly questioning Divine Right, and after that you might as well be hawking copies of
An Phoblacht door to door.
It's the Tower for you, Credo my lad.
This is where liberal nonsense like Scottish devolution and Magna Carta will lead you.
Googling An Phoblacht...
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 26 April, 2023, 02:42:28 PMMichelle O'Neill has accepted an invitation to see Chucky Windsor put on his special hat.
Which is nice
Private Eye on the case as usual:
(https://i.redd.it/asvpsvi7wmxa1.jpg)
(,Also, at the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, I would imagine it was the allegations of Savile collusion that got the other thread locked, rather than any griping about jug-eared monarchs.)
It's weird seeing crowds of people with union flags and union flag themed paraphernalia.
'Round my way that's a surefire sign there's a riot a brewin'.
It's like back during the 2012 Olympics, the constant knee-jerk reaction of "Oh dear, the stadium is full of sectarian scumbags"
And then there's all the people calling themselves republicans. Again, different connotations in this neck of the woods.
Anyway, God save King Tiocfaidh.
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 05 May, 2023, 09:09:15 PMAnyway, God save King Tiocfaidh.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I feel duty-bound to all you non-Oirish to point out that Tiocfaidh is pronounced Chucky.
I remember blissfully cruising across the border years ago with my father in his boat, and commenting on how many of the other passing boats had Union flags on them.
It was then that we suddenly remembered what day of the year it was. Our tricolour, which was hung more for decoration than patriotism, was taken down fairly sharpish and hidden well out of sight.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 May, 2023, 09:26:28 PM...Tiocfaidh is pronounced Chucky.
No, Chucky is pronounced Tiocfaidh, ye feckin' soup drinker!
;)
So it turns out that Republicans are being arrested in London before they've actually done owt. :-X
Not surprising in a state where disagreement is a crime to be cracked down on by anybody with even an atom of power.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 06 May, 2023, 10:17:58 AMNot surprising in a state where disagreement is a crime to be cracked down on by anybody with even an atom of power.
C'mon, Shark.
Just raise your right hand and repeat,
"I swear that I will pay true allegiance to your majesty, and to your heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God."
There.
Feels better already, doesn't it?
"I swear that I will pay true allegiance to the people of this planet, and to their heirs and successors, according to Common Law. So help me God."
Hm. That does feel better :D
NO GODS NO MASTERS
(https://preview.redd.it/1kfduooun7ya1.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=cfa4160d8e0e7999538079c49dcc6cdbe3dfc473)
Moving away from Big Kingy Chuckles for a minute, it's just occurred to me that the bastard spawn of UKIP, Reform, have been completely forgotten about in those local elections of yours.
Which would be reassuring if the likes of Johnson, Patel and Braverman hadn't shifted the tories way to the right in order to mop up the Farage-loving voters.
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 06 May, 2023, 12:42:27 PM(https://preview.redd.it/1kfduooun7ya1.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&v=enabled&s=cfa4160d8e0e7999538079c49dcc6cdbe3dfc473)
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 06 May, 2023, 12:38:17 PMNO GODS NO MASTERS
And there go
your knighthoods.
Police arresting people for thought crime. (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-65507435)
"We are confiscatin' these dangerous blunt weapons wot them woz plannin' on usin' to cause mischief in the region of 'is royal wotsit, innit. God save the man in the 'at."
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/0C6D/production/_129618130_645e8fac68e6a450784af7822560691579879615.jpg)
"This man 'as nefariously suggested that drillin' for oil will 'arm the planet, but my guv'nor Rishi says he makes quite a lot money out of that oil and could we please lock 'im up. No problem, guv'nor!"
(https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/72E4/production/_129621492_b574662bd54769d3c37fcc8a762160c1698962d40_0_3888_25921000x667.jpg)
I'm hazy about how this monarchy thing works.
So...
Do they plough the king into the earth after seven years or do they just let him get older and stinkier?
(https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/9/91584/1944463-lord_weird.jpg)
A couple of IPAs has got me thinking of how the word 'republican' has very different connotations depending on what country you're from.
Here, as Mr Pops says, it suggests someone who has leanings towards a united Ireland and may possibly have had IRA sympathies in the past, or at least Sinn Féin ones.
In England it's just someone who doesn't see why they should be classed as 'subjects' of some weird rich family that nobody elected.
In the USA, however, the word hints at someone who will do all in their power to fuel even more mass shootings, take away women's bodily autonomy, stamp out even the slightest suggestion that not everyone is 100% heterosexual, and noisily delude themselves that a massive man-child won an election that he clearly lost.
Fair point. Also, it is the "People's Republic of China."
Now there's a place where freedoms are universal ...
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 06 May, 2023, 08:10:29 PMA couple of IPAs ...
Had a good squint at the middle letter there
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 06 May, 2023, 08:10:29 PMHere, as Mr Pops says, it suggests someone who has leanings towards a united Ireland and may possibly have had IRA sympathies in the past, or at least Sinn Féin ones.
"Here" is the North for me, where a republican has a more complex definition, but generally means you completely support the RA. There's even sub-genres such as the pinnies, the stickies and the dissies. They're all usually involved in trading unlicensed pharmaceuticals.
Nationalists are people that want a united Ireland, but don't necessarily agree with the RA's methods of achieving it.
And I was about to start trying to explain Northern Ireland's whole political spectrum, but I caught myself on.
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 06 May, 2023, 09:26:12 PMQuote from: JayzusB.Christ on 06 May, 2023, 08:10:29 PMA couple of IPAs ...
Had a good squint at the middle letter there
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 06 May, 2023, 08:10:29 PMHere, as Mr Pops says, it suggests someone who has leanings towards a united Ireland and may possibly have had IRA sympathies in the past, or at least Sinn Féin ones.
"Here" is the North for me, where a republican has a more complex definition, but generally means you completely support the RA. There's even sub-genres such as the
, the stickies and the dissies. They're all usually involved in trading unlicensed pharmaceuticals.
Nationalists are people that want a united Ireland, but don't necessarily agree with the RA's methods of achieving it.
And I was about to start trying to explain Northern Ireland's whole political spectrum, but I caught myself on.
Aye, fair enough, I wouldn't even try to suggest I understand the complexities of the situation north of the border. My 'here' is not your 'here' by any means.
I have a neighbour from a protestant area of Belfast- I think he was surprised to discover most of our little houseboat community didn't give much of a shite where he was from or what his religion was.
Quote from: Tjm86 on 06 May, 2023, 09:11:48 AMSo it turns out that Republicans are being arrested in London before they've actually done owt. :-X
Arrests of peaceful protesters. Republic's response. (https://www.republic.org.uk/arrests_of_peaceful_protesters_republic_s_response)
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 May, 2023, 09:26:28 PMQuote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 05 May, 2023, 09:09:15 PMAnyway, God save King Tiocfaidh.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I feel duty-bound to all you non-Oirish to point out that Tiocfaidh is pronounced Chucky.
I remember blissfully cruising across the border years ago with my father in his boat, and commenting on how many of the other passing boats had Union flags on them.
It was then that we suddenly remembered what day of the year it was. Our tricolour, which was hung more for decoration than patriotism, was taken down fairly sharpish and hidden well out of sight.
This must be much more obvious to people living near the border than me, but what day of the year was it?
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 06 May, 2023, 08:10:29 PMA couple of IPAs has got me thinking of how the word 'republican' has very different connotations depending on what country you're from.
Here, as Mr Pops says, it suggests someone who has leanings towards a united Ireland and may possibly have had IRA sympathies in the past, or at least Sinn Féin ones.
In England it's just someone who doesn't see why they should be classed as 'subjects' of some weird rich family that nobody elected.
In the USA, however, the word hints at someone who will do all in their power to fuel even more mass shootings, take away women's bodily autonomy, stamp out even the slightest suggestion that not everyone is 100% heterosexual, and noisily delude themselves that a massive man-child won an election that he clearly lost.
Funnily enough I was listening to a radio show / podcast the other day and the word republican came up. I assumed the piece was about the far-right in the USA, but it turned out to be on people who don't get over-excited when somebody wears a new hat in the UK.
Quote from: sheridan on 09 May, 2023, 09:26:13 AMQuote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 May, 2023, 09:26:28 PMQuote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 05 May, 2023, 09:09:15 PMAnyway, God save King Tiocfaidh.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I feel duty-bound to all you non-Oirish to point out that Tiocfaidh is pronounced Chucky.
I remember blissfully cruising across the border years ago with my father in his boat, and commenting on how many of the other passing boats had Union flags on them.
It was then that we suddenly remembered what day of the year it was. Our tricolour, which was hung more for decoration than patriotism, was taken down fairly sharpish and hidden well out of sight.
This must be much more obvious to people living near the border than me, but what day of the year was it?
I would guess the twelth of July, when the PUL community celebrates their Britishness by commemorating a Dutch man beating up a French man in Ireland, while the CNR community all bugger off to Donegal
My northern friend is correct, of course. The multicultural, all-inclusive and forward- thinking 12th.
Interesting, in that celebrating the 12th of July puts them apart from England and Wales* - in that that date has no significance over here.
* just looked it up - apparently it's also celebrated / commemorated in Scotland and Newfoundland and Labrador.
I hadn't realised it was so little- known outside this island. It's all over the news ever year here, and between one act of belligerence and another, it's never the feel-good story at the end.
The only time it would get in to the news over here is if there was violence or that time a bunch of grown adults shouted and threatened primary school children for something or other (to be honest, I don't think the latter had anything to do with what date it was - any day is a good day for strangers to scream at five-year-olds, apparently).
Sounds like you're talking about the Holy Cross Stand off. They didn't just threaten, they threw bricks, water balloons filled with piss and even a pipe bomb. About a mile away from where I live now. Thank fuck The Troubles are still over. Or at least downgraded to The Squabbles.
That was in September of 2001.
I remember because:
a) It was the beginning of the school year, and;
b) Something happened on the eleventh of that month that stuck in the memory.
I doubt that the bigotry in the Ardoyne was miraculously done away with by events in New York, but all reporting about the Holy Cross situation stopped dead on the afternoon of the 11th.
It was such a notable example of big news driving out little news.
There are only so many pages in a newspaper. There are only so many hours in the news cycle. If an event doesn't make the news it might as well not have happened.
On 12th September 2001 there was only room for one thing in the news. I got the feeling those primary school kids might have been beaten to death in the street and we wouldn't have heard about it.
Thinking further - the only date related event that gets highlighted over here (and is pointed out it's to do with the time of year) is Marching Season.
Quote from: sheridan on 09 May, 2023, 03:51:24 PMThinking further - the only date related event that gets highlighted over here (and is pointed out it's to do with the time of year) is Marching Season.
Yes, well, the Orange Order's calendar goes:
January
February
March
March
March
March
March...
It strikes me that the parts of Northern Irish society which seem most alien and strange to those on the mainland are theoretically on the same 'side' as the Brits...
They're not just on the side of the Brits, as far as they're concerned they are British. MORE British than any of you living off the east coast. Diluting your British identity with English, Scottish or Welsh. Not these boys, nothing but pure Brit. The gammonist of the gammons.
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 09 May, 2023, 03:38:22 PMSounds like you're talking about the Holy Cross Stand off. They didn't just threaten, they threw bricks, water balloons filled with piss and even a pipe bomb. About a mile away from where I live now. Thank fuck The Troubles are still over. Or at least downgraded to The Squabbles.
I seem to remember it, or an event like it, even made its way into a John Wagner Dredd around that time, with Simps and Norms standing in for the real nutjob extremists.
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 09 May, 2023, 09:01:37 PM...MORE British than any of you...
I was surprised to discover that the most British are the Welsh, although this depends on how you figure things out. (I'm referring to the Anglo-Saxon invasions pushing the "original" Britons west until they all started singing and talking to dragons. My Welsh history is based partly on a single history book and partly on Ivor the Engine, see?)
Quote from: Credo! on 10 May, 2023, 02:24:26 AMQuote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 09 May, 2023, 09:01:37 PM...MORE British than any of you...
I was surprised to discover that the most British are the Welsh
Or you could take it a step further and say that, because of the continuing westward infiltration of Saxon holiday homes and the consequent dilution of Welsh culture, the true Britons can be found south across the sea in Brittany.
We didn't have Ivor the Engine when I was little, and had to make do with
De Excidio Britanniae instead.
For those who don't know, De Excidio Britanniae (The Ruin of Britain) is a 6th-century screed regretting the decline of the country due to wokeness sinfulness, and remembering the good old days of the British Roman Empire, and strong leaders like Churchill Arthur who put a stop to foreigners swarming in from the Continent.
It's not all bad news - One third of UK energy produced by wind farms (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-65557469).
Vauxhall-maker warns Brexit may force it to close UK factory (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-65612295)
I was going to suggest you'd only have to wait seconds for all the Tories to line up and remind us of how great Brexit is, and of how the car-maker if incorrect - but the rebuttal and refusal to acknowledge reality starts right there in the article, with Guv'nor Rishi banging on about his list of made-up benefits.
Ben Roberts-Smith: Top Australian soldier loses war crimes defamation case (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-65773942)
I've always thought it a bit at-odds with the job description to expect professional killers to also be heroic. I suppose it depends on definitions, but blindly honoring people in that line of work is, at best, rose-tinted.
Gene Simmons: Kiss star calls for Stormont restoration (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65837018)
What is...........what? This IS the news.
If I had a penny for every Kiss related post I've inflicted this board with, I'd have two pennies. That's not a lot but it's weird that it happened twice...
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 05 June, 2023, 06:47:34 PMBen Roberts-Smith: Top Australian soldier loses war crimes defamation case (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-65773942)
I've always thought it a bit at-odds with the job description to expect professional killers to also be heroic. I suppose it depends on definitions, but blindly honoring people in that line of work is, at best, rose-tinted.
I know what you mean. All this 'thank you for your service' stuff - fine, but why not extend the thanks to firefighters? They put their lives at risk without trying to kill other people.
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 08 June, 2023, 10:28:58 PMGene Simmons: Kiss star calls for Stormont restoration (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65837018)
We're in Brass Eye territory and no mistake. I just wish he'd been wearing the makeup when he met IP jr.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 05 June, 2023, 06:47:34 PMBen Roberts-Smith: Top Australian soldier loses war crimes defamation case (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-65773942)
I've always thought it a bit at-odds with the job description to expect professional killers to also be heroic. I suppose it depends on definitions, but blindly honoring people in that line of work is, at best, rose-tinted.
Train people to kill other people and they do awful things shocker.
To quote a bit of Pat Mills - "One day killing is your duty and the next day it's wrong to go around with a necklace of ears."
Johnson out on his arse and Trump answering criminal charges.
What's next? Peace in Ukraine, Halo Jones 4, and free ice cream for everyone?
It seems clear from this statement that this is just a temporary necessity so he can ride in after a Starmer Victory to "defend" Brexit. Though he has set himself a few hurdles as he would need to get himself a safe Tory seat to become PM again.
It was a bad day for bloated politicians with shite hair.
Jsut watching a video on how he has bought a house in Henley, "coincidentally" just a few days after the current Tory MP announced he wouldnt be standing at the next election, so his plan is pretty transparent.
A spoof from Politics Joe: Goodfellows: Boris Johnson resigns as an MP (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTyPJz7DwxI)
Trigger warning: Tories.
War Marshal Prigozhin settles his differences with Supreme Judge Putin.
Feck me pink, I hadn't even thought of the parallels with Kazan and the Apocalypse War. Both brave moves by Wagner (sorry).
I can't quite work out where this leaves Putin. Weakened by the loss of Wagner or strengthened by the rooting out of bad apples? More popular with his people or less? Oh, those Russians.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 26 June, 2023, 05:18:48 PMI can't quite work out where this leaves Putin. Weakened by the loss of Wagner or strengthened by the rooting out of bad apples? More popular with his people or less? Oh, those Russians.
WTF Just Happened in Russia? with Rolo Slavskiy. (https://corbettreport.substack.com/p/wtf-just-happened-in-russia-with?publication_id=725827&post_id=131189711#play)
Warning: James Corbett wears a tin foil hat (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/James_Corbett#Fact-checking_sites). (And, in the linked video, has an avowed pro-Russian, anonymous interviewee who makes broad hints that he's a secret agent come in from the cold and then bangs on about THE WEST wanting all Russians to be eaten by sharks. I'd say you couldn't make it up, but they have. The main problem with the 'cast, though, is that they don't say much of anything - just broadly hint at shadowy forces and play make believe about being secret agents. As Rogue Trooper would say, it would: "make every one of your whore mothers weep!"*.)
---
Jayzus - my guess (and it has to be just that) is that we got really close to a military coup there. The missing piece of the puzzle is why Pregozhin didn't go all the way to Moscow? Did it become clear that it was going to be a stand-up fight? Did his tank-carriers run out of fuel? Was the dug-up motorway too much of a barrier? Did Putin threaten to nuke him? Almost nothing would surprise me. Russian politics is opaque.
---
*Just quoting Rogue Trooper here, Rebellion - just in case you think I'm engaging in some form of hate speech, or something. Nothing of the sort. Just quoting your comic. That you published. And advertised to kids. "Hey kids - I'm Swearo-Thargo, Tharg's niece, and you can all get fucked!"
Cheers Funt. Just not sure where it leaves Putin now. I heard of Russians cheering the Wagner group on as they drove towards Moscow, but who knows, with the fog of war being what it is.
Obviously Putin is very bad news, but i shudder to think of the consequences of a savage mercenary like Pregozhin having access to the red button. The devil we know is appalling but possibly still better.
Rolo Slavskiy is not the most balanced commentator, one only has to look at his blog to realize that. He's all, "I'm right and if you don't agree with me you're just dumb," (a tactic not exclusive to him...). He doesn't mention things like the US-funded Ukrainian biolabs, Operation Aerodynamic, or general Western interference, for example, and doesn't believe Putin's claims that the war is to de-Nazify Ukraine; though all these things (and more) likely play a part to some degree or another.
What he does bring to the discussion, however, is the idea that competing Russian oligarchs also have a part to play. Is his view that this is the sole cause of the rebellion/mutiny correct? Almost certainly not, just as the sole cause cannot be attributed to any one thing. Is his view that competing oligarchs complicate Russian politics a part of the picture? Well, given that deeply wealthy people cause problems for most other governments, I should say yes, yes this is indeed part of the picture - but not, I would guess, to the extent he suggests. The idea that the Wagner Group got fed up of paying bribes to the oligarchs in charge of the Russian MoD in order to receive vital war supplies seems outlandish on the surface, but who knows? It's all very complicated and likely nobody has all the answers.
As for the tiger shark that killed Vladimir Popov at Hurghada, I'm sure there are some w*nkers who would say that this was a Good Thing - but the fact that the shark is to be mummified and put on display in a museum is, at best, in poor taste. One wonders whether this would be happening had the human being killed been Jewish, for example.
Apologies - I should have said Israeli, not Jewish. My bad.
Touching moment chimp sees outdoors for the first time (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-66037455)
Another perspective on the Wagner thing - Vanessa Beeley Interview (https://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/vanessa-beeley-interview-wagner/).
QuoteVanessa Beeley is a British activist and blogger known for sharing conspiracy theories and disinformation... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Beeley)
QuoteSome of Beeley's controversial views include a belief that the human rights NGO Human Rights Watch is a "fake" group, that the Charlie Hebdo shooting in Paris was a false flag operation... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanessa_Beeley)
Occam's Razor suggests this person might be full of shit and not worth listening to.
This Auzzie guy, Perun, does deep-dives focused on defence-economics. You can either listen to his blah, or play a drinking game for every time he says "Private Conscriptavich" or "thunder run" in one of his videos. Anyway, his latest 'cast covers the recent mutiny in Russia:
Wagner's Mutiny - what it means for Putin's Russia (and Coups 101) (https://youtu.be/tP8VPkWXOfU)
For lighter, frothier news, check out:
Sex life of rare 'leopard-print' frog revealed (https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66001590)
Barbie movie gets Vietnam ban over South China Sea map (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-66083761)
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 03 July, 2023, 02:03:10 PMWagner's Mutiny - what it means for Putin's Russia (and Coups 101) (https://youtu.be/tP8VPkWXOfU)
Another interesting perspective, thank you.
A couple of articles from Global Research:
"Moscow Maidan", "Attempted Coup d'Etat" against Putin? There Never Was A Plan, The M-4 Rostov-Moscow Highway (https://www.globalresearch.ca/moscow-maidan-attempted-coup-detat-against-putin-there-never-was-a-plan-the-m-4-rostov-moscow-highway/5821625)
Did America Really Know About 'Wagner' Rebellion Before It Happened? (https://www.globalresearch.ca/did-america-really-know-about-wagner-rebellion-before-it-happened/5824517)
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 04 July, 2023, 09:57:34 AMDid America Really Know About 'Wagner' Rebellion Before It Happened? (https://www.globalresearch.ca/did-america-really-know-about-wagner-rebellion-before-it-happened/5824517)
I should probably have had greater foresight but clearly not enough coffee has parsed my lips just yet today to have predicted this but
DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS CITED AS 'EVIDENCE' in this article.
I clicked through to one and immediately got a malware abort message, nice to see GR doing their editorial duty there.
Which link?
As highlighted below; lowest most paragraph.
QuoteOn a geopolitical level, the "rebellion" proved to be even more damaging to US interests, as the fast-growing multipolar world overwhelmingly sided with Moscow and its leadership. The "rebellion" itself was dealt with swiftly, proving that the Russian society and establishment are anything but "full of cracks" and that the Eurasian giant's enemies can only hope to achieve success by fanning up its internal issues, as they're powerless against Moscow in terms of external attacks. And yet, even attempts to escalate these divisions are failing miserably (and even backfiring). Meanwhile, the US and its "leadership" are once again embarrassing themselves precisely in front of one of the premier multipolar powers.
Cheers. Weird, it works fine for me (Linux Mint, Firefox) and goes straight to the article Political West concerned as BRICS offers alternatives which nullify sanctions at infobrics.org.
Should be noted that infobrics .org was reported as having ties to the Russian intelligence services three years ago, when it was apparently publishing covid misinformation.
Would appreciate it if this thread could be a news thread and not become a wonky tinfoil hat conspiracy theory links thread. Ta.
:lol:
Okay, I guess this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Bz3LgPkP18&ab_channel=JueurFamily) is more like what passes for news around here.
That's a bit unfair.
Never a dull moment on Tankie Tuesday.
I think the real news here is that Legendary Shark's avatar thing has become the most disturbing thing ever!
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 04 July, 2023, 04:16:03 PMNever a dull moment on Tankie Tuesday.
Think you've mentioned this before and I can't find it on the interweb. Any chance you could explain it to an ageing pre-internet squaxx like me?
.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 July, 2023, 04:27:13 PMQuote from: Hawkmumbler on 04 July, 2023, 04:16:03 PMNever a dull moment on Tankie Tuesday.
Think you've mentioned this before and I can't find it on the interweb. Any chance you could explain it to an ageing pre-internet squaxx like me?
.
Tankie Tuesday is just my own localized nonsense thing, as it always seems we get some kind of CCP caliber hogwash from one hack site or the other on a Tuesday; either on this thread or elsewhere.
Genuine attempt to be helpful: there could be a separate thread - it could be called "Legendary News" - perfect place for the kind of thing that wouldn't seem out of place in the Fortean Times (in terms of credibility).
And, I guess it's unwritten, but the title of this thread could be read as "This is the (mainstream) news". Or, "This is the (accredited) news (written by actual journalists)". Or, "This is the news that two minutes of Googling won't entirely debunk as mostly made up hogwash".
My second paragraph is perhaps less helpful - but was more fun to write.
As a longtime reader of the Fortean Times, I'm afraid I must vehemently disagree, (at least in terms of it being placed in said publication sans commentary regarding its obviously dubious nature).
Quote from: M.I.K. on 04 July, 2023, 05:16:07 PMAs a longtime reader of the Fortean Times
Even as I was typing that, I was thinking "am I going to have to apologize later"*. Sorry!
*This month: psychic phenomenon on message board investigated.
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 04 July, 2023, 04:31:24 PMQuote from: JayzusB.Christ on 04 July, 2023, 04:27:13 PMQuote from: Hawkmumbler on 04 July, 2023, 04:16:03 PMNever a dull moment on Tankie Tuesday.
Think you've mentioned this before and I can't find it on the interweb. Any chance you could explain it to an ageing pre-internet squaxx like me?
.
Tankie Tuesday is just my own localized nonsense thing, as it always seems we get some kind of CCP caliber hogwash from one hack site or the other on a Tuesday; either on this thread or elsewhere.
I'm with you now. Thanks for the explanation
There's always the "Truth..?" thread, but that's no barrel of laughs either.
It's probably best if I just give up. I'll leave you to your delusions and you leave me to mine - you'll never convince me to reconsider returning to your perspective and I'll never convince you to accept mine. It's sad, but no reason for bad blood. If you believe nothing else I've ever said then please believe this: I care deeply about all human beings, from the best the worst of us, which entire human family includes every one of you, of course, as we are all beings of incalculable value and potential. Yes, I'm blunt and often clumsy, maybe a little tone-deaf, and I certainly try to be direct and honest to the best of my limited knowledge. And I try to be funny, too, often to a perplexingly unexpected result. I do not see the world as you see it but so what? Despite our superficial differences, I'd lay good odds that we all share the same core values of things like familial and intimate love; senses of justice, decency, and honour. This core is why I point towards things I think are important, and probably why you do too. We're just pointing in different directions, that's all.
If I had one driving ambition behind all my "tinfoil" posts I guess it would be for you to see (or at least consider) that we are all, me included, civilians experiencing an information war, World War i, to coin a phrase. There are many worlds out there in the Infosphere; some for entertainment, some for education, some for politics, each subdivided into spheres of sports or Hollywood or 2000AD or The Open University or FaceTube or the News or banking or economics. Everything is now linked as never before, and it is dazzling. The Usual Suspects know this, and are putting on a show. I don't know why, exactly, but I don't think it's good. Politics, for example, is nothing more to me than a loose collection of global Punch and Judy shows distracting us from real issues. What those real issues are is not for me to decide but I'd suggest our survival and flourishing as a species should be very high on the list. We need to start looking behind the Punch and Judy shows, and fast, and figure out what's wrong with us. We live on a fucking Eden, and we're squabbling over it like children, constantly at one another's throats for one of any million reasons spat at us from the Infosphere; hate conservatives, hate liberals, hate democrats. Hate gays hate Nazis hate men. And their opposites. A ready-made view for all tastes. The most superficial tapestry of lies. Familial and intimate love; senses of justice, decency, and honour. That's the Truth, the rest is not that important. Just love one another, it's as simple as that. Jesus said it, John Lennon, my mate Bill - they all said it. And I get it now.
And so, because I love you all (even those who don't deserve it), I'll shut up.
Longest. Surrender speech. Ever.
I'll concentrate on writing short stories and scripts that don't upset anyone because nobody reads them.
I have to call fake news on this one:
QuoteAlmost 50 years after dying from an overdose, the folky singer-songwriter Nick Drake is more popular than ever. With a new biography and covers album of his songs out, Neil Armstrong sifts truth from fiction. (https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20230704-nick-drake-why-the-mysterious-music-icon-who-died-young-is-misunderstood)
I have never heard of Nick Drake until this article. "More popular than ever" - does this mean that not only his relatives, but some of the friends of said relatives now know about him? Any of you lot heard of him?
Yeah, I've heard of Nick Drake because I'm a real cool guy. He's an enigmatic character amongst certain guitar nerds because he used weird tunings and although people have figured out how to play some of his stuff, no one is really sure if it's the same tuning, and therefore chord configurations, that Drake used.
Also, there's a apochryphal story that his first album was called "Five Leaves Left" because he submitted it as a casette, and to let the A&R people know who had submitted it, he wrote his name on the wee bit of paper ye get in risla packets to warn you when you're running out.
All this should be taken with a grain of salt though, for I am not a trusted accredited music journalist. Nor do I wish to be. As Frank Zappa once said:
"Writing about music is like dancing about architecture."
I saw a documentary about him on the BBC a couple of decades ago. Hadn't heard of him before that.
Angry mobs of bigots with burning torches. Nice work, Georgia. Real classy.
https://www.thejournal.ie/georgia-pride-attacked-by-mob-6113611-Jul2023/ (https://www.thejournal.ie/georgia-pride-attacked-by-mob-6113611-Jul2023/)
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 09 July, 2023, 02:09:03 PMNice work, Georgia.
And this is the country that gave us Joe Stalin.
I don't want to tar all the nations of the Caucasus with the same brush, but a friend who is determined never to set foot in Armenia again told me that Yerevan is the town where Iranian bad boys go to have their fun. I'm imagining a sort of Amsterdam-stag-weekend vibe, only with machismo levels amped all the way up – and possibly knives.
If nothing else, the modern era is a stark warning that while progress mostly follows a broad trend, in terms of progressive and relatively liberal thinking, there's no guarantee that trend will continue; and even if it does, there can be bumps and temporary regressions along the way. (Those for a given value of 'temporary', given that in a long historical context they might seem quite fleeting, but a decade of being vilified or repressed certainly won't feel fast to those it affects.)
It's quite startling to read about some of the stuff coming out of the US right now about the ongoing attacks on women's rights. It's not quite Handmaid's Tale, but Florida in particular is doing some really bad shit. And I was unaware that it was only relatively recently – 1974 – that women were able to get a credit card in their own name, without seeking permission from a man. I imagine quite a few people would like to dial that back.
TL;DR is we shouldn't be complacent about hard-won rights, because they're pretty easy to strip away.
Jonathan Pie: Back To You, Huw! (https://youtu.be/rLFKcYphPCM)
Neatly deconstructing the recent media frenzy.
Just breaking cover for a moment to say that I found this (https://twitter.com/simonateba/status/1682032928124174336) to be very interesting.
Breitbart's former chairman, Steve 'Wear Your Accusations of Racism as a Badge of Honor' Bannon, was handed the job of chief strategist and advisor in the White House thanks to his success in whipping up the enthusiasm of the far right.
They have both a huge rightwing agenda and a huge voice but still, like Trump and Bannon, love to play the victims.
I'm politely requesting that a mod lock this thread. (It doesn't seem like the forum - as a collective entity - is capable of discussing current affairs without it becoming a repetitive game of whack-a-foil.)
Sorry, probably should have let that one go. Like Sharky, I believe that all American governments are bad, but I think far-right ones and their enablers are on the terrible end of bad and the mention of Breitbart got my hackles up.
Don't be sorry, it's always worth calling them out.
It's not even about Breitbart.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 31 July, 2023, 04:29:50 PMI'm politely requesting that a mod lock this thread. (It doesn't seem like the forum - as a collective entity - is capable of discussing current affairs without it becoming a repetitive game of whack-a-foil.)
Nah, this thread and it's predecessors act as a gluttonous sin eater for the rest of the forum.
If Shark finds this shite interesting, then fair enough. I'm perfectly capable of rolling my own eyes.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 31 July, 2023, 07:17:27 PMIt's not even about Breitbart.
Except that it's a video by the political editor of Breitbart News - which is a far-right propaganda organization specializing in conspiracy theories, hate speech and intentionally misleading stories. So, it is about Breitbart, and you're waving their flag.
I see.
So, a video of a woman giving testimony to the U.S. House Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government about experiences during her time working at the New York Post, posted by the Chief White House Correspondent at Today News Africa in Washington is about Brietbart because she now works for Breitbart? I guess there's some logic in there somewhere...
Maybe you think she's lying, which is certainly possible. Or maybe she's wrong, which is also possible. Or maybe she's telling the truth, another possibility. Or maybe the whole thing's a deep fake presented by (insert bogeyman of choice here), which, these days, is also a possibility. Whichever, I find it disturbing that what a person says can be so confidently ignored based solely on the prejudice triggered by their current job.
It's fine to disagree with what she says, or some of what she says, and argue against it, but it's dishonest to just ignore her because she's (insert personal bias here). You can also find a pdf of her testimony here (https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/judiciary.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/morris-testimony.pdf), on the U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee website (unless you want to dismiss this source also because it's run by lying, cheating, stealing, warmongering politicians...).
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 11 July, 2023, 11:20:51 AMTL;DR is we shouldn't be complacent about hard-won rights, because they're pretty easy to strip away.
See also Rishi Sunak wanting to roll back any advances made in tackling climate change / pollution.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 01 August, 2023, 07:36:32 AMI see.
So, a video of a woman giving testimony to the U.S. House Select Subcommittee on the Weaponization of the Federal Government about experiences during her time working at the New York Post, posted by the Chief White House Correspondent at Today News Africa in Washington is about Brietbart because she now works for Breitbart? I guess there's some logic in there somewhere...
Maybe you think she's lying, which is certainly possible. Or maybe she's wrong, which is also possible. Or maybe she's telling the truth, another possibility. Or maybe the whole thing's a deep fake presented by (insert bogeyman of choice here), which, these days, is also a possibility. Whichever, I find it disturbing that what a person says can be so confidently ignored based solely on the prejudice triggered by their current job.
It's fine to disagree with what she says, or some of what she says, and argue against it, but it's dishonest to just ignore her because she's (insert personal bias here). You can also find a pdf of her testimony here (https://judiciary.house.gov/sites/evo-subsites/judiciary.house.gov/files/evo-media-document/morris-testimony.pdf), on the U.S. House of Representatives Judiciary Committee website (unless you want to dismiss this source also because it's run by lying, cheating, stealing, warmongering politicians...).
Swiss cheese, wall of text bullshit, as per usual.
Your "Chief White House Correspondent at Today News Africa" is a known antagonist who doesn't want to take turns but instead has been continually warned for just shouting everyone else down. (Like you.) He is the *only* correspondent for Today News Africa, which consists of one "journalist" (him), whose only editor is himself. That's about as trustworthy a news source as Putin's barber.
It's not prejudicial to notice that someone has a history of bending the truth to suit their needs and then gets employed as the political editor of an extreme right-wing platform that involves itself in spreading misinformation and hate speech. It would be prejudicial if I had no evidence on which to base my lack of trust. There is plenty of evidence.
For some reason, you are willing to believe almost anyone at all - as long as you are the one presenting them to us - but you are completely unwilling to accept any evidence we present in counter. This is a pattern that repeats itself over and over again - and has done for years. You're a delusional bullshit vampire that spreads misinformation as a hobby. Perhaps Brietbart would employ you?
Quote from: sheridan on 01 August, 2023, 12:51:34 PMQuote from: IndigoPrime on 11 July, 2023, 11:20:51 AMTL;DR is we shouldn't be complacent about hard-won rights, because they're pretty easy to strip away.
See also Rishi Sunak wanting to roll back any advances made in tackling climate change / pollution.
I was surprised to hear an interview yesterday (on the News Agents podcast) with an SNP member who was pretty much on the same page as Sunak regarding the gas and oil drilling. On the one hand, the oil and gas is in Scottish waters and would of course hugely help the country if it was to become independent. On the other hand, helping to render huge tracts of the world uninhabitable is a bit of a downside.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 01 August, 2023, 07:00:30 PMFor some reason, you are willing to believe almost anyone at all - as long as you are the one presenting them to us - but you are completely unwilling to accept any evidence we present in counter. This is a pattern that repeats itself over and over again - and has done for years. You're a delusional bullshit vampire that spreads misinformation as a hobby. Perhaps Brietbart would employ you?
Glorious, and accurate. He's a credulous plank and vainglorious, delusional dimwit who'll happily buy into any conspiracy theory that already matches his peculiar and increasingly not terribly pleasant views.
Captain Confirmation Bias.
Come off it, the pair of you.
Piling on the personal abuse does more harm than any wrong-headed post.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 01 August, 2023, 07:36:32 AMIt's fine to disagree with what she says, or some of what she says, and argue against it, but it's dishonest to just ignore her because she's (insert personal bias here).
I guess I'm in two minds when it comes to some of the more controversial figures in our media landscape (bet it the so called 'mainstream' or 'social'). There are positions that range from the distasteful to the potentially dangerous. They reveal a mindset that is possibly disturbed or at the very least out of step with modern thinking. Certainly they pose questions about how to approach them.
There is a real issue with the growth of belief in 'conspiracy theories'. They have grown from being something mildly bemusing to something that has the potential to threaten life, be it on an individual scale or on a national level (potentially even supra-national).
This begs the question then of whether to shut it away or to engage with it? Do you give it oxygen and room to grow or do you try to snuff it out? Should it be treated with ridicule or engaged with in order to try and bring about a more reasoned approach?
I want to be a little careful here because this can extend to different political views. I think it is fair to say that most of us that inhabit these parts are more of a 'social democrat' / socialist mindset. I don't think we number Trotskyists / Maoists / Leninists / Corbynites (!) amongst our number but I think it fair to say that there is little respect for the likes of Thatcher. Characters such as Farage, Johnson and Trump are, it would appear, more the subject of derision around here.
We do however number libertarians and anarchists among our community. These positions present a problem for those amongst us who are more inclined towards some sort of social compact and a need for collective organisation. The extreme individualism of those perspectives (and by 'extreme' I do not mean to dismiss them, merely to suggest that they stand at a distance from some of the more communal political perspectives generally held) is difficult to reconcile.
In many respects the real problem is that right now we have, as a society in general, become unable to engage with different viewpoints. Polarisation and division have become the only options. It is now binary. Whatever the issue, middle ground is not only impractical but actively discouraged. This would appear to be the product of a media-sphere that both thrives on and profits from 'outrage'.
So we end up with accusations of bias (probably, if we are honest, accurate) accompanied by insults and dismissal. It descends into personalisation and vitriol. Ultimately we end up with things being locked down and people blocked from forums.
Can we completely ignore these positions and views though? Are we snuffing out potentially dangerous viewpoints or actually pushing them into darker corners of the web where they can grow unchecked? Are we pushing away those who might be brought around to a more reasoned position allowing us a better understanding of underlying grievances that might be addressed before they become dangerous?
Personally I would argue that Sharkey does have a point. It is dishonest to dismiss people and views out of hand simply because we find them distasteful or fundamentally disagree with their position. The same goes for castigating them as 'stupid'.
Right now I would argue that it is more important than ever to understand these issues and find a critical and effective way to deal with them. One thing that has been evident over the years is that the majority of folks on this forum are incredibly supportive, highly intelligent and capable of impressive levels of critical thought. It is not often we reach a point where people have to be excluded and a lot of effort is put into trying to rehabilitate them before that point is reached.
Maybe we do have to accept that it is not possible right now to escape the same impetus that is polarising so much debate and discourse. I'm not sure that we don't have it in us to tackle this head on though.
A thoughtful and interesting post.
I don't know what the right answers are.
A very good post, TJM, thank you for sharing it with us.
For my part, I welcome debate. Prove (in the sense of putting to the test) me correct or incorrect on individual points, larger narratives, and even my fundamental beliefs. Ask me any question and I'll do my level best to answer it honestly.
I'm not here to change anybody's mind (an impossible task from the outside anyway) but to improve my own.
Sorry, TJM. I know you didn't say, mean, or imply it but I was concerned that my viewpoint was in peril of being described as 'dangerous,' which it most certainly isn't. My most fundamental belief, the bedrock upon which my personal philosophy is built, is that human beings must not harm one another. There are others, though, and far too many, who either do not share this foundation or outright contradict it. Most because they've never really thought about it, but a few because it gives them A Cause. It is these few I rail against. And it is these few to whom my ideas are dangerous, not you. I've said it before, and you sure don't make it easy sometimes, but I love you all.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 02 August, 2023, 07:31:47 PMMy most fundamental belief, the bedrock upon which my personal philosophy is built, is that human beings must not harm one another.
I'm taking the bait here, I know, but you uphold that belief by repeatedly quoting sources that have a reputation for condemning and vilifying the vulnerable our outright subjugated communities, and never in opposition to the offending parties in question?
I'm sorry Shark, you can tell yourself this and I have no doubt you earnestly believe it, but that is genuinely not how it looks from the outside.
"All views have a point and right to be heard" but not all views are built of equal merit.
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 02 August, 2023, 07:50:58 PMI'm taking the bait here, I know, but you uphold that belief by repeatedly quoting sources that have a reputation for condemning and vilifying the vulnerable our outright subjugated communities, and never in opposition to the offending parties in question?
I'm sorry Shark, you can tell yourself this and I have no doubt you earnestly believe it, but that is genuinely not how it looks from the outside.
"All views have a point and right to be heard" but not all views are built of equal merit.
To be "fair" to Mr. Shark, he's long had the
utterly effin' weird personality quirk of thinking a quote is more important than the views or morality of the source. Here he is way back in 2011, really not grasping what the problem is...
https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=32291.60
When I posted the link to the video of Emma-Jo Morris's testimony, I honestly wasn't concerned who had posted it or for what reason. It was the content, Morris's words, that I was looking for - and I found them interesting, to say the least. For one thing, I didn't even know there was an official enquiry looking into the Weaponization of Government, and it kinda' shocked me because the Government is a weapon (from my perspective). But this snippet of the enquiry, which is available from other more Statist sources if you hunt about a bit, caught my attention. The woman seems sincere, and - if true - what she has to say is troubling.
Now, I could probably go and find the Official Footage and scour through it until I get to that bit and then give you the link and time-index, but who has the time, right? These guys already did that for reasons of their own. So what? This footage is just the jumping-off point. It raises questions, yes, an aspect of which is validity, but only an aspect. Can anything she says be verified in any way? If not, that's great! We have a free press and The System works! If so... More questions.
But we never get past the validity aspect. "You can't believe this person, they're a thingummybob!" Well, we're all thingummybobs in the end, aren't we? None of us can be believed all the time (for example, I'm not a real shark), but by the same token none of us can be disbelieved all the time, either. It's a spectrum. But there's this weird idea these days that different ideas are dangerous or distasteful so they can't even be explored. So not trusting the source is important, absolutely it is - but the same must be applied to all sources; judge them not for who they are alone, but also for what they say. Even the vilest of tyrants have taught us lessons, as well as the purest of saints, and all the rest of us sandwiched in-between. But, you can't listen to what Emma-Jo Morris has to say because Breitbart? Come on, guys.
And M.I.K. Ah! Those were the days!
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 02 August, 2023, 11:16:28 PMBut, you can't listen to what Emma-Jo Morris has to say because Breitbart?
I would not for one second suggest that you can't listen to her*, but I would suggest that maybe you shouldn't listen to her because she might be full of shite. She worked for a man whose political strategy was, in his own words, to "flood the zone with shit". So I'm not going to take anything she says in good faith.
*Funt might, he wanted the thread locked.
As I said, she might be lying, she might just be plain wrong, or she might be telling the truth. Or a mixture. I'd remind you that the testimony was given under oath before an official enquiry which, again, may or may not be relevant. I don't know this woman, maybe she takes the oath seriously. She may be telling the truth as she sees it, as do we all, and if she is there should be supporting evidence to back her up. I really haven't been paying attention to the Hunter Biden Laptop thing, but it seemed pretty big one way and another. Maybe bigger than is admitted. Or maybe it's nothing. Or maybe it's something else. Point is, we'll never know if we never look.
Just in case anyone is interested, here[/i] is the full hearing from which Emma-Jo Morris's testimony is taken. It's almost four hours long and includes three other witnesses being grilled by a range of congress critters, some friendly and some not, presented in this case by PSB.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OokHd05Tq4E)
Xi Jingping is conducting a purge of the upper echelons of his military administration. (https://www.thedailybeast.com/reckoning-in-china-behind-xi-jinpings-firing-of-top-beijing-officials?ref=home?ref=home)
(https://i.imgur.com/5ww4JO2.jpg)
Quote from: JohnW on 01 August, 2023, 11:38:12 PMCome off it, the pair of you.
Piling on the personal abuse does more harm than any wrong-headed post.
You're cherry-picking what you consider to be "personal abuse". I was described as "prejudicial", suffering from "personal bias" and "dishonest" - none of which I was being. You did not ride to my defense (not that I want or need that).
For my part, I was simply describing facts - but using words which you found unpalatable. It's a funny old world - but for some reason a lot of people regard swears as being automatic argument losers. But - Boris Johnson (to take an example from recent history) is a proven bullshitter. My using tart language doesn't make him a truth-teller. Or - what's worse - the PM gaslighting a nation, or someone calling him a name (that accurately describes his behavior)?
Quote from: Tjm86 on 02 August, 2023, 06:28:19 AMAre we pushing away those who might be brought around to a more reasoned position
There's a counter to this position proffered by folk who have studied deep conspiratorial thinking - and it's basically that trying to reason your way through the minefield of illogic is a lost cause. Whatever reason you proffer will be countered by a new, even more convoluted conspiracy, until eventually you arrive (if you're lucky) at an admission that facts aren't really important.
Or - if you debate with
an idiot a magical thinker, you give credence to their
idiocy magical thinking in the minds of the audience, who are commonly tricked by the "seesaw" fallacy (aka false balance).
Or - watch this video from the 15:20 mark: Fist Of Fun S2 E5 (https://youtu.be/QYc--QFzkGE)
I can be incredibly dense sometimes. Whereas one might look up to the sort of fictional character who "doesn't suffer fools gladly", it's also the case that, in an uneven playing field, one might accidentally find oneself punching down without having meant to. Self-reflecting on that, I'd like to thank JohnW and Tjm86 for being kinder voices of reason.
---
Switching topic (back to the news), I always like when a real headline looks like it came from Newsthump:
Zuckerberg 'not holding breath' over Musk cage fight (https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66424364)
It finally happened the world has gone mad
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fXyYp5hZaIY
Quote from: rogue69 on 20 August, 2023, 06:13:34 PMIt finally happened the world has gone mad
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/fXyYp5hZaIY
No, no, no, no
and no.
Enough of this shit.
Really.
I mean it.
Encase the whole lot in concrete and push it overboard – at least 200 nautical miles from any inhabited shore.
Now leave me alone and let me think happy thoughts.
What the absolute fuck is that all about? Maths is now just a subjective opinion? Shit off.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 20 August, 2023, 06:55:11 PMWhat the absolute fuck is that all about? Maths is now just a subjective opinion? Shit off.
I think I'll be talking to my bank manager about that. "My mortgage is $450,000? That's just, like, your opinion, man."
"Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two makes four. If that is granted, all else follows." Orwell, 1984.
"There.Are.Four.Lights." Picard, Chain of Command.
Speaking as someone with a Maths Degree...
...shit, we've been rumbled!
Loving all the fire caused by an out of context mini-clip from an insane 24 hour news cycle where they'll interview anyone about anything.
But, sure ... RAGE! They're trying to steal our sums!
Some people will believe this. There are arguments to support 2+2=5 (such as, for very large values of 2), and a minority will plug this into their world-view as supporting evidence, as I am about to do but, I hasten to add, in the name of liberty rather than base racism.
It's how the Infowar works, in tiny increments. That snippet won't impact many, but it'll impact a few, thereby creating yet another division between people who believe in X and people who don't. If that minority grows, it will start to be supported by other groups for whatever reason, or even absorbed by larger movements, perpetuating the idea that 2+2=5 if you want it to be. This kind of thinking will be the ruin of humanity because it turns objective truths into subjective lies. I can't remember the philosopher's name (Kant?), but his ideas about how nothing can really be known seem to have impacted society in, I think, a negative way. Even quantum physics and string theory shrug their shoulders and agree, and the effect it's had on our politicians and tycoons has been breathtaking; they all seem to have taken black-belts in sophistry. Is anything we know true?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." - William J. Casey, CIA Director (1981)
2+2=/=4 always. It all depends on what numerical system you're using:
2+2=100 in binary
2+2=11 in ternary/tricimal
2+2=10 in quarternary/quatrimal
But you tend to find in higher n-imal counting that:
2+2=a sinister conspiracy to replace white people
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 20 August, 2023, 09:18:07 PMLoving all the fire caused by an out of context mini-clip from an insane 24 hour news cycle where they'll interview anyone about anything.
But, sure ... RAGE! They're trying to steal our sums!
Despite my sweariness, I can't say I felt rage at all. More irritation and incredulity.
Not rage for me, either - more like disappointment.
Millionaires Movie Club is a satellite repost repository for well known huckster and all around misogyny mine Fresh and Fit podcast (just checking the popular uploads page will be enough to give any level headed person an aneurism) so yeah. Cheers for proliferating that sort of thing.
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 20 August, 2023, 09:12:22 PMSpeaking as someone with a Maths Degree...
...shit, we've been rumbled!
Aye. Just wait until they find out about Non-Euclidean Geometry. I can just imagine the reaction when they discover that what they thought was 'straight' is anything but!
On a slightly more serious note though ... does that woman actually realise how stupid she sounds. 2 + 2 is racist??????? It really is a classic case of "better to stay quiet and be though a fool than open your mouth and prove it!"
FFS!!!!!!!!! :o
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 21 August, 2023, 07:48:21 AMMillionaires Movie Club is a satellite repost repository for well known huckster and all around misogyny mine Fresh and Fit podcast (just checking the popular uploads page will be enough to give any level headed person an aneurism) so yeah. Cheers for proliferating that sort of thing.
Sorry. Genuinely. Should have checked both the source and the context. (I'm still not entirely sure of the context, if anyone has a bit more information.)
I read a bit more on this and (color me not surprised), the context opens the debate up a little.
Nobody (except for gammons, who are using it to fill their rage-bladders and color our perspective) actually made the claim that "2+2=4 is racist", and nobody made the claim that "2+2=5". Those be straw men! Or women. Or gender neutral folk. Or genderqueer peeps. Or sea-horsies. Or turtles, which is another gammon-baiter (https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Turtlegender).
Anyway ... the point that was being made was that, while basic arithmetic is all fucking QED and objective (2+2=4, yup), the way that mathematics is used, societally, can be subjective. And it can be used for ill. After all, mathematics is just a language, and you can use languages for all sorts of purposes.
Example: Nazi eugenics. (This isn't Godwin's Law, you hairy gibbons! It's just a pertinent example.)
The argument is given in more depth, and more cogently, by this dude called Jason To (https://mrjasonto.wordpress.com/), who seems to have started all this kerfuffle by ... trying to talk in depth on a subject. BOO! No, Jason! We'll have none of that! Our Trumpian overlord and his army of angry hicks (busy machine-gunning beer cans because they may have been touched by a trans person) won't have any of this thinking shit! Stop it! Get angry instead! Find people different from you and attack them! Crush them! Hit them with bibles!
This is a lot more fun: 58 and other Confusing Numbers - Numberphile (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4bmZ1gRqCc).
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 25 August, 2023, 10:03:22 PMI read a bit more on this ...
(https://media.tenor.com/3mh7gjCQpKQAAAAM/simpsons-nerd.gif)
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 25 August, 2023, 10:03:22 PMThis is a lot more fun: 58 and other Confusing Numbers - Numberphile (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4bmZ1gRqCc).
It's been a while since I watched that, but I vaguely remember Mr Scott referencing a pacific island culture that counts in base 27? or similar and I've always wanted to find out more about it, but there don't seem to be many easily accessible sources.
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 25 August, 2023, 11:36:12 PMI vaguely remember Mr Scott referencing a pacific island culture that counts in base 27? or similar and I've always wanted to find out more about it
I read a bit more on this ... Oksapmin Counting System (https://culturecognition.com/new-page-3)
(https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/5df64fd536e39924efb6c098/1576633056987-CCULLEOSQ6EWCWAGRT0W/body+counting+system+27_0.jpg?format=1500w)
Art by someone else. I can't do fingers that well.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 25 August, 2023, 10:03:22 PMI read a bit more on this and (color me not surprised), the context opens the debate up a little.
Nobody (except for gammons, who are using it to fill their rage-bladders and color our perspective) actually made the claim that "2+2=4 is racist", and nobody made the claim that "2+2=5". Those be straw men! Or women. Or gender neutral folk. Or genderqueer peeps. Or sea-horsies. Or turtles, which is another gammon-baiter (https://gender.fandom.com/wiki/Turtlegender).
Anyway ... the point that was being made was that, while basic arithmetic is all fucking QED and objective (2+2=4, yup), the way that mathematics is used, societally, can be subjective. And it can be used for ill. After all, mathematics is just a language, and you can use languages for all sorts of purposes.
Example: Nazi eugenics. (This isn't Godwin's Law, you hairy gibbons! It's just a pertinent example.)
Cheers, Funt. Lesson learned. (Lesson for me - don't instantly react to a few seconds of a sound-bite without, as I say, checking the source and the context first.
EDIT: Especially when my knowledge of maths is down there with my knowledge of anything that requires cohesive organisation.)
No harm, no foul. That had been edited together to make it seem like something utterly daft was being said. It's a bit like when anyone interviews Jordan Peterson (the Incel King of Canada) - he uses big words and intellectual name-dropping to make it seem like he's making sense, but whenever anyone fact-checks him it turns out that he's mostly talking shite to back up his world view.
I don't know a lot about Jordan Peterson, other than that he sounds like a bit of a dick and that one of my mates seems to think he's some kind of modern-day Socrates. :-\
He's charismatic, and a master debater, but, I dunno', I find there's something a little off about him.
Peterson is a irascible oaf and snake oil merchant with all the wile and grace of airborne roadkill.
But he is very good at selling shit to the gullible who collect excrement, I will give him that.
Every time I've heard Jordan Peterson speak for any amount of time, I've always come away thinking there's something seriously wrong with his brain. He constantly makes basic factual errors, has very odd assumptions, jumps to highly illogical conclusions and seemingly bursts into tears every now and again for no immediately apparent reason.
He's ChatGPT in Human Form. Persuasive enough on first glance to seem insightful, but you're never long in finding out it's a big crock of cockamamy.
Among his numerous crimes I number making the works of Jung seem uncool.
Not even Joseph Campbell managed that, an inhumane task.
Is he the guy who wants to have sexy times with lobsters or something?
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 27 August, 2023, 10:09:40 PMIs he the guy who wants to have sexy times with lobsters or something?
His idea was that hierarchies in human society can be explained by serotonin, which he supports using serotonin in lobsters as a comparison (more serotonin = more aggressive lobsters). While this comparison
might have some merits, I'm not sure that likening the way lobsters and humans behave and operate is entirely valid.
He sounds like a narcotics enthusiast.
Well, he does dress like a drug dealer's boss's boss.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 28 August, 2023, 07:29:25 AMQuote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 27 August, 2023, 10:09:40 PMIs he the guy who wants to have sexy times with lobsters or something?
His idea was that hierarchies in human society can be explained by serotonin, which he supports using serotonin in lobsters as a comparison (more serotonin = more aggressive lobsters). While this comparison might have some merits, I'm not sure that likening the way lobsters and humans behave and operate is entirely valid.
Indeed. Like I say, I don't know much about the guy (other than, as I also said, he seems a bit of a gimp), but having to leap as far across the evolutionary tree as sea crustaceans to prove a point about men and women suggests a touch of confirmation bias to me.
Someone: "Misogyny is problematic."
Peterson: "No, because lobsters."
---
This article does a better job of debunking Peterson's pseudo-intellectual nonsense:
Botched biology: how does Jordan Peterson use science to prop up his (mis)beliefs? (https://www.varsity.co.uk/science/23090#:~:text=Male%20lobsters%20use%20aggression%20to,is%20to%20assert%20social%20dominance.)
Florida man arrested after trying to cross Atlantic in hamster wheel vessel (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-66733230)
I understand wanting to leave Florida, but there are easier methods available.
Wrong-way driver calls police on himself by mistake (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-66745802)
Drunk-calling is a thing - but drunk-calling the cops..?
[I realize some people may get triggered by the idea that the road has a "wrong" side - stay calm! Check the pre-determined drop location for further instructions. As ever, trust nobody!]
Met police pay damages to two women arrested at Sarah Everard vigil (https://www.channel4.com/news/met-police-pay-damages-to-two-women-arrested-at-sarah-everard-vigil)
The Met have never admitted fault on this one (quelle surprise), but justice of a sort has been served.
You Tube Rapper gets gold chain 'hair' hooks surgically implanted into scalp
https://metro.co.uk/2021/09/10/rapper-dan-sur-gets-gold-chain-hooks-surgically-implanted-into-scalp-15241049/
Quote from: rogue69 on 15 September, 2023, 07:59:36 PMgold chain 'hair' hooks surgically implanted into scalp
Obviously a massive fan of Captain Skank then.
(https://i.postimg.cc/76f1jYVw/243646-19752-118570-1-2000-a-d.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
:lol:
Quote from: rogue69 on 15 September, 2023, 07:59:36 PMYou Tube Rapper gets gold chain 'hair' hooks surgically implanted into scalp
Who wears it better?
(https://2000ad.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/2000ad-2163-Colour-final-783x1024.jpg)
(https://images-prod.dazeddigital.com/640/azure/dazed-prod/1310/2/1312935.jpg)
Irish TV Station's 'Meteor Mystery' Unravels in Spectacular Fashion (https://www.thedailybeast.com/irish-tv-stations-meteor-mystery-unravels-in-spectacular-fashion)
I see Laurence Fox has proved himself too much of a cockwomble even for GB News. Or at least, he has now that G Beebies have realised that he might lose them viewers and money.
You've got to admire how a man who looks like the corpse of Fido Dido seems to see himself as the very essence of testosterone.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 27 September, 2023, 04:37:42 PMLaurence Fox has proved himself too much of a cockwomble
Time and time again, it seems. So, his only measure of the value of half of the species is whether or not he wants to shag them? Ironic, given that he looks like someone's cloning experiment went wrong.
These "alternatives to mainstream media" seem to be working out well, then.
Sycamore Gap: Boy, 16, arrested after Hadrian's Wall tree felled (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-66952980)
I wouldn't normally advocate the death penalty. Perhaps justice in this case would be sawing off the lad's feet? Or - taking the long view - setting up a complex apparatus such that a tree would grow through him over time.
It's things like this that point to humanity's predictable doom. We are a pathetic species.
There is a scene in the movie "Ironclad" where King John orders the removal of one the rebellious Lords hand, as it was the one used to sign the Magna Carta against HRH. (Granted, he then goes on to lop off the unfortunate Lord's other hand and also his feet, but - in HRH's insane, megalomaniac mind at least - the principle was sound.)
Personally, I prefer the tree gradually growing through the miscreant route as a just, appropriate and deserved fate. (I might be wrong on this, but did something similar not happen to one of the characters within the myths of Game of Thrones? Or am I thinking of another series or movie?)
It's baffling, Brits usually only disrespect and defile other culture's historical sites.
What the police don't know is that Bazzer had to cut the mystic tree down to prevent the High Cedric, Maximal Druid of the Putrescence Clan, from using the tree's life energy to open a portal to the Undervibe in order to release the demonikind ravager known as Destroiatrix the Foul. Bazzer saved the world but nobody's ever gonna believe him.
Poor Bazzer.
Quote from: paddykafka on 28 September, 2023, 08:48:12 PMPersonally, I prefer the tree gradually growing through the miscreant route as a just, appropriate and deserved fate. (I might be wrong on this, but did something similar not happen to one of the characters within the myths of Game of Thrones? Or am I thinking of another series or movie?)
The three-eyed raven was, indeed, part-man, part-tree, with the power to witness any moment in time from any location, and also to warg into, well, a raven.
I've also a vague memory of trees or roots rapidly growing up through baddies. Was this in Slaine, perhaps?
You might be thinking of bamboo torture. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_torture) Or maybe the Thistlebone story Poisoned Roots.
I'm sure folk on t'internet have already said this, and I'm not saying it's totally implausible, but that's a suspiciously professional looking tree-felling for a 16 year old.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 28 September, 2023, 10:18:14 PMI've also a vague memory of trees or roots rapidly growing up through baddies. Was this in Slaine, perhaps?
Maybe biowire from Cinnabar.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 29 September, 2023, 03:21:43 AMQuote from: Funt Solo [R] on 28 September, 2023, 10:18:14 PMI've also a vague memory of trees or roots rapidly growing up through baddies. Was this in Slaine, perhaps?
Maybe biowire from Cinnabar.
The scene from Slaine Sky Chariots where worms came up through a Drune Lord (is that right?), who looked a bit tree-like
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 29 September, 2023, 03:21:43 AMQuote from: Funt Solo [R] on 28 September, 2023, 10:18:14 PMI've also a vague memory of trees or roots rapidly growing up through baddies. Was this in Slaine, perhaps?
Maybe biowire from Cinnabar.
Sounds about right, though it had already been established as a Nort weapon long before cinnabar. Cinnabar was its origin story, and also a demonstration of just how nasty a way to die it was
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 29 September, 2023, 12:35:32 PMQuote from: Funt Solo [R] on 29 September, 2023, 03:21:43 AMQuote from: Funt Solo [R] on 28 September, 2023, 10:18:14 PMI've also a vague memory of trees or roots rapidly growing up through baddies. Was this in Slaine, perhaps?
Maybe biowire from Cinnabar.
Sounds about right, though it had already been established as a Nort weapon long before cinnabar. Cinnabar was its origin story, and also a demonstration of just how nasty a way to die it was
The first biowire story was in the batch of progs which was given to me by a neighbour and started my long slide into Squaxxdom. Around the 310s-320s back in 1983.
Prog 317.
(https://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/hires/317.jpg)
That's the one. I had thought it was introduced in Cinnabar, being a very John Smith way of shredding human flesh, but was delighted to find it was a nod to continuity. I also hadn't realised that Bagman's mental instability was a similar gathering up of Finley-Day plot threads. What Finley-Day didn't include was inter-species orgies, future AIDS, soldiers smoking weed, and Gunnar making jokes about incestuous paedophilia.
I loved Cinnabar. You'll hear someone who looks like me but with a strange, whiney voice discussing it at length with Eamonn on the Mega City Book Club podcast.
Is this really the best way to get a new generation into the art classics? turning Van Gogh's artworks into Pokemon
https://nerdist.com/article/pokemon-van-gogh-collaboration-reveals-new-promo-card-and-museum-adventures/?
Yes. Yes, it is.
Quote from: Le Fink on 29 September, 2023, 11:08:49 AMQuote from: Funt Solo [R] on 29 September, 2023, 03:21:43 AMQuote from: Funt Solo [R] on 28 September, 2023, 10:18:14 PMI've also a vague memory of trees or roots rapidly growing up through baddies. Was this in Slaine, perhaps?
Maybe biowire from Cinnabar.
The scene from Slaine Sky Chariots where worms came up through a Drune Lord (is that right?), who looked a bit tree-like
Aha! I think my vague memory was pointing at this scene from Zenith:
(https://i.imgur.com/LYonMIz.png)
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 30 September, 2023, 07:59:48 PMAha! I think my vague memory was pointing at this scene from Zenith:
(https://i.imgur.com/LYonMIz.png)
Ah yes. Some evocative onomatopoeia in there too.
Fuck, I love those panels so much.
The slight change in silhouette from the Lloiger'd up sup' in the background, his face visibly turned to the reader, taken in horrible context with the foreground imagery.
I'm a sucker for Yeowell on his worst days, the his work on Phase III might just be among my favourite run of comics art of any era or form. Just peerless.
I have to admit I'm not a huge fan of the modern Yeowell style but his art on Zenith Phase 3 was just flawless.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 01 October, 2023, 04:42:08 AMI have to admit I'm not a huge fan of the modern Yeowell style but his art on Zenith Phase 3 was just flawless.
Agree on his Zenith work. Just wonderful. I caught it in the prog, which might affect my feelings about it. Has his style changed so much? I wonder if he's simply better presented in crisp black and white. I thought Red Seas was certainly up there - not sure when that was though, caught it in the Hachette collection. Perhaps his drawing changes when he knows he's being coloured in?
How a chatbot encouraged a man who wanted to kill the Queen (https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-67012224)
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 28 September, 2023, 06:57:05 PMSycamore Gap: Boy, 16, arrested after Hadrian's Wall tree felled (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-66952980)
It's things like this that point to humanity's predictable doom. We are a pathetic species.
Calvin & Hobbes' reaction upon arriving at the scene of that tree felling.
https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=266931256312544&set=gm.3611475559120619&idorvanity=1951125591822299
You've heard of Atlantis - now tremble in geographical excitement as ye hear tell of Pacificus Zealandia (https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230928-the-mysteries-of-the-worlds-eighth-continent)!
If you want to see British politicians struggle desperately with the concept that the state of Israel can be both a victim and perpetrator at the same time, then watch today's Sunday with Derbyshire (https://youtu.be/1ZxJUOG6Bks?si=b3TJ0sryyTeFirgn).
Summary: according to both Tory and Labour ministers, it's okay to bomb the shit out of civilians break international law in this case.
To be honest, the Israeli government has been getting away with it for at least 75 years. Amnesty, and others, label Israel an apartheid state. Israel has also defied U.N. resolutions on numerous occasions. But it is the only Western-style democracy in the Middle East, so the rest of the club seems to turn a blind eye. We must open it for them.
Oh, and before anybody screams "antisemitism!" at me, I stand with this guy. (https://twitter.com/TorahJudaism/status/1711346466986291608)
And before anyone screams "apologist!" at me, I want to make it perfectly clear that the deliberate taking of innocent human lives, especially for a political ideology of any kind, is Wrong and anyone who commits such a crime must be brought to justice - no matter which "side" they are on or which ideology they follow. This is how Justice is supposed to work, isn't it?
But I am not naive enough to think that this simple insight, which I've been trying to get across for years, is going to solve anything. It isn't, especially in the short term. What might help is imagining that 1) killing innocents for ideology is wrong, and 2) just as Judaism is not Zionism, Hamas is not Palestine. Then just get the word out. The Powers-That-Shouldn't-Be might just hear us if we scream loud enough. They might just pause in their blind support of a bully who's enraging others in the area, and the dangers that situation presents, just because "democracy." That's a simplistic assessment, sure, and calling out the Israeli government, and our own governments for supporting it, might be nothing but hot air and stink. Surely, though, in a western style democracy such as ours, where public debate and the public voice have every right to be heard, it's at least got to be worth a try. It might at least slow down the bombings, the invasion, the Unthinkable.
For my part, I'll risk the programmed knee-jerk smears for calling out the Zionist Israeli state because I'm also calling out Hamas. Both are guilty. I stand with the innocent Palestinians and the innocent Jews against Hamas and the Zionists. Enough is enough. These innocents are dying for politics. All their crimes are well documented all over the place, down from the highest United Nations decrees, through the most respected human rights groups' reports, blundering through Wikipedia and the MSM and down into blogs and vids everywhere. It's not hard to look up. It's not hard to see that we've been fed a line about Israel. Our governments and our corporations have not only been condoning this shit, now they're cheering it on. If this macrocosm of globalization doesn't convince you that governments and corporations don't care about you half as much as they care about ideology, power, and wealth, then nothing will. There are oilfields off Gaza. Israel's stated goal is a Jewish only state (deliberately blurring Judaism with Zionism). The globalists want western-style governance zones to fill the world. The military industrial complex wants the whole thing to explode so they can sell lots of materiel. The private sector wants to build it all back up again when the shouting stops. The banks want to fleece the lot of 'em. All these tides converging directly onto millions of innocent human beings strewn across a set of imaginary lines.
But tides can be altered. We've got to figure out how to South Africa the shit out of this thing.
TL;DR
Guys, we just gotta stop murdering each other for bullshit reasons.
An Open Letter from Palestinian Christians to Western Church Leaders and Theologians. (https://www.change.org/p/an-open-letter-from-palestinian-christians-to-western-church-leaders-and-theologians)
I'm not a fan of top-down institutions, as you well know, be they governmental, corporate, or religious. What I am a fan of are the human beings caught up in those institutions and trying to use them properly - for the good of everyone. I think the above letter is an attempt to do just that, and I hope it gains traction - even amongst us cynical unbelievers.
Why are mass shootings on the rise in the US? (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-67232795)
That's a two-minute info-vid from the Beeb, but TL;DR - it's because there are as many guns in the US as people.
(But someone has two because I don't own one.)
I watched a clip recently of Piers Morgan making a similar argument to a bullshit-spewing gun advocate on Fox News. Fuck Fox News already, of course, but fuck them even more for making me cheer for Piers Morgan.
That's a really odd item.
Why is the presenter projecting as a primary school teacher? Maybe to tell us she's not to be questioned? And why shouldn't she be questioned? The BBC has been misrepresenting and cowering before Zionism forever, so who else might they be misrepresenting and cowering before?
And, how far does gun control go? One doesn't have to look far to see what can happen when one group has virtually all the guns and the other has virtually none. Do we include armies in this? Air forces, navies, police, government agents, licensed hunters, government-backed Israeli settlers, legitimate freedom fighters, legal mercenaries? How about the military industrial complex? I mean, all these devices of death come from somewhere, right? And governments, of course, who want to keep their guns because freedom and collect oodles of taxes because economics. They speak out of both sides of their mouth, advocating fewer guns for those people over there and more guns for these people over here, ignoring the complex spectrum between aye and nay or those people and these people to collapse a complex argument into pro or anti with no middle ground - the poster child of the false left/right paradigm. You're either with us, or you're against us. Pick a side.
What I'm saying is that it isn't simply the availability of guns that's the problem, although the access to opportunities presented by such a glut is most definitely a part of it. The presenter's conclusion is that mass shootings lead to both calls to ban guns and increased sales, with an implied causal connection to further mass shootings. A leads to (B+C) which leads to A. Neat, but somewhat lacking in nuance.
I'm all for cutting down the number and range of guns produced and sold - but across the board. As an extreme example, is there any logical reason on God's green Earth why the MIC should still be producing white phosphorous shells, cluster bombs or land mines?
Hold on, maybe I can explain it better with a few squares of coloured sugar paper and some crayons...
QuoteI'm all for cutting down the number and range of guns produced and sold - but across the board. As an extreme example, is there any logical reason on God's green Earth why the MIC should still be producing white phosphorous shells, cluster bombs or land mines?
I had a long post but I edited down. Yes, I agree that if we could somehow stop authorities making weapons in every country in the world, it would be a far better place.
But the clip was about a different issue - mass shootings of civilians by other civilians and how easy access to guns by civilians is probably a major cause.
It's not, indeed, rocket science. A Scot was jailed recently for trying to procure a firearm from overseas with which he planned to ... do unspeakable things. His plot failed, because he did not have easy access. In the US, there's nothing to stop the plot.
(It's not a conversation about military capabilities.)
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 31/10/2023, 20:49:51Quote But the clip was about a different issue - mass shootings of civilians by other civilians and how easy access to guns by civilians is probably a major cause.
Which I agreed with. What I disagree with is that it's the sole cause - not that the video makes that claim anyway. It just throws a bunch of statistics out without much analysis to make the argument "guns bad." Which is true, as far as it goes, but for many more reasons than mass shootings. Shootings by troops, agents, police etc., along with wider psychological, political, economic, practical and sociological issues must also be taken into consideration.There is no single explanation just as there is no single solution. Well, maybe universal enlightenment would solve everything, but that's a big ask.
Now I have to admit you've lost me there, Sharky. It seems to me that while easy access to guns may not be the only cause of mass shootings - again, by civilians and against other civilians, which was the sole topic of the clip, not police or military violence - it seems very likely that it's the biggest, and a lack of easy access to guns evidently reduces gun violence significantly, again solely within the sphere of gun violence by civilians against civilians.
War and police brutality are a different subject for a different conversation.
I'm not sure they are different things but, rather, parts of the same problem.
Switzerland, for example, is often cited as "proof" that high gun ownership leads to fewer gun related deaths. This may be the case in some situations where a would-be perpetrator is dissuaded by the knowledge that shooting at Ralph would entail getting shot back at, but is far from the whole picture. An armed population helped keep Switzerland out of two world wars, which I think speaks to a different culture where guns are respected and seen as tools of national rather than personal defence.
In the U.S., however, guns appear to be regarded as tools of personal rather than national defence. This, to my mind, is a big difference and a major cause of gun deaths. U.S. citizens also see, with virtually hourly news reports, its government routinely blasting chunks out of human beings all over the world with impunity, blatantly devaluing the worth of human life. At the moment, the USG (along with the UKG and too many others) are supporting and cheering on the inhuman madness being unleashed on innocent Palestinians and innocent Israelis. This cheapening of human life by the so-called authorities (reinforced by domestic police shootings of innocents, Hollywood glamourization, computer games, etc.) has to seep into the consciousness of its citizenry and present as the attitude that it's okay to shoot some people, like anyone who happens to step onto private property without permission. I find this attitude abhorrent. It's never okay to kill anyone, and whether the killer happens to be in uniform or not makes absolutely no difference in my personal philosophy.
Whether mass shootings are conducted officially or unofficially is an artificial distinction, in my view, and it makes no logical sense to idolise one while demonizing the other. The greatest cause of gun violence, I think, is the constant and acceptable narrative that some people are good and need to be defended while others are evil and need to be killed. Again, I find this abhorrent.
So yes, while I agree that the numbers and types of weapons available does provide a massive opportunity for abuse, I don't agree that it's the major problem. It's the way we see our fellow human beings that is, in my view, the major (but, again, not the sole) root of the problem.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 01 November, 2023, 07:41:22 AMSo yes, while I agree that the numbers and types of weapons available does provide a massive opportunity for abuse, I don't agree that it's the major problem. It's the way we see our fellow human beings that is, in my view, the major (but, again, not the sole) root of the problem.
You're one hundred percent correct. If I hate my fellow human being, it doesn't matter one jot if I'm armed with a blunt spoon or a hefty mace - it's the way I see them as a fellow human being that matters. Why, I recall the time an insane badger was running down festival goers on a stolen combine harvester - as they were being lopped to pieces by the spinning blades I could hear them cry out "you might as well be armed with a feature duster you lapine lunatic, for all the harm you're doing m...UCK!"
Yes, yes. One hundred percent correct.
I fully agree mass shootings are equally bad when conducted by authorities. But again, that is not what that clip was about and it never mentioned any opinion whatsoever about war deaths or police shootings.
If anyone wants to start a new debate about those things here, of course that's absolutely fine, but there is absolutely nothing in the clip in question that even alludes to them, let alone casts them in a positive light.
The hate is equally strong in many countries besides the US, but the mass shootings, again by civilians with guns, are not. As for Switzerland - yes, there are many guns, but there are also many controls in place as to who buys them and how they're used. One might even call these gun laws.
Anyway, that's all I'm going to say on the subject right now - anything else I post would be just me repeating myself, or re-repeating myself in this case.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/switzerland-gun-laws-rates-of-gun-deaths-2018-2%3famp
I know the clip doesn't contain any references whatsoever to military or police shootings. It exclusively examines civilian mass shootings and the availability of guns and attempts to draw the two together in a Blue Peter style. It gets its point across okay in the short time it has and, from that perspective, it does its job. However, as I said in my op, "The presenter's conclusion is that mass shootings lead to both calls to ban guns and increased sales, with an implied causal connection to further mass shootings. A leads to (B+C) which leads to A. Neat, but somewhat lacking in nuance."
It is a strong argument at best and a contributory factor at worst, but it's not the only perspective and should be neither dismissed nor glorified without further information and thought. I think this short clip does a good job of explaining the range and availability of guns and also the unlawfulness and tragedy of mass shootings. It fails, though, to establish a driving force from availability to shooting. Having lots of guns doesn't make people kill each other, but they really make it easier when they do decide to kill each other (or resist an invasion).
Gaza reporter removes protective vest after learning of colleague's death (https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-middle-east-67314396)
The Committee to Protect Journalists (https://cpj.org/2023/11/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/) claims that 36 journalists and media workers have been confirmed dead (31 Palestinian, 4 Israeli, and 1 Lebanese) as of yesterday.
This is the news... (https://www.bitchute.com/video/GY5DKdvoPa8Z/)
Sunday with Laura Kuenssberg is just so insipid. They could change the name to "Gently Stroking the Government" and it wouldn't be far off.
Grant "Bomber Harris" Schnapps had the gal to reference the firebombing of Dresden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden_in_World_War_II) as a positive, and Kuenssberg didn't even blink.
Horrible scenes in Dublin last night. There were fireworks being set off on the street where I live. I just hope that those poor kids and their teacher will recover from their injuries and the trauma that they have been through. And hats off to those brave people, who intervened to stop the beast who carried out the stabbings from hurting anyone else. One of those heroes was a Brazilian immigrant. An irony that will of course be lost on the far-right wank-stains, who used that awful attack as an excuse for their hate-mongering so-called 'protest'.
https://www.facebook.com/DublinLiveOnline/videos/1057645765582575
(https://preview.redd.it/ydr9yhs5162c1.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=e6d05ce3b34e7a895fa7d073f482c792ccea5175)
I could take a swipe at Dublin here, but I'm reminded of an encounter I witnessed a few years back on my street. A lady of the neighbourhood jovially told a passing dark-skinned man to fuck off back where he came from.
Which do I want living in my town: people who come from wherever and mind their own business or people who shout abuse at strangers?
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 24 November, 2023, 05:53:35 PM(https://preview.redd.it/ydr9yhs5162c1.jpg?width=1024&auto=webp&s=e6d05ce3b34e7a895fa7d073f482c792ccea5175)
That happened in my head as I was reading the news.
---
Here's to hoping that the victims manage a recovery.
'These foreigners are destroying our city,' say locals who are destroying our city.
One tiny glimmer of hope is that a GoFundMe campaign has ensured that the heroic Brazilian Caio Benicio will not need to be working for Deliveroo for a very long time.
https://www.gofundme.com/f/buy-caio-benicio-a-pint
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 04 November, 2023, 07:19:49 AMThe Committee to Protect Journalists (https://cpj.org/2023/11/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/) claims that 36 journalists and media workers have been confirmed dead (31 Palestinian, 4 Israeli, and 1 Lebanese) as of yesterday.
~57, now. (https://cpj.org/2023/11/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/)
Here are just three that caught my eye:
November 23, 2023 - Mohamed Mouin Ayyash, a Palestinian journalist and a freelance photographer, was killed in an Israeli airstrike
on his home in Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza, along with 20 members of his family...
November 20, 2023 - Ayat Khadoura, a Palestinian freelance journalist and podcast presenter, was killed along with an unknown number of family members in an Israeli airstrike
on her home...
November 20, 2023 - Alaa Taher Al-Hassanat, a Palestinian journalist and presenter at AlMajedat Media Network, was killed, along with multiple members of her family, in an Israeli airstrike that
hit her house...
I counted sixteen instances of journalists being killed in their homes. Imagine if that had happened in Iran or Ukraine.
Imagine if any of this happened in Iran or Ukraine. According to the United Nations (https://ukraine.un.org/en/253322-civilian-deaths-ukraine-war-top-10000-un-says), in the 640 days since the war in the Ukraine began, at least 10,000 civilians, including more than 560 children, have been killed and over 18,500 have been injured. The world was outraged.
By comparison (https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-50-enarhe), in the 50 days since the "War on Hamas" began, 14,800 people have been killed in Gaza alone, including about 6,000 children and 4,000 women, with unknown numbers of injured, starving, and sick.
Putin - bad guy. Netanyahu - good guy. (This isn't me defending either but questioning the judgement and loyalty of our media and governments over the last 75 years.)
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 26 November, 2023, 10:16:00 PMQuote from: The Legendary Shark on 04 November, 2023, 07:19:49 AMThe Committee to Protect Journalists (https://cpj.org/2023/11/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/) claims that 36 journalists and media workers have been confirmed dead (31 Palestinian, 4 Israeli, and 1 Lebanese) as of yesterday.
~57, now. (https://cpj.org/2023/11/journalist-casualties-in-the-israel-gaza-conflict/)
Here are just three that caught my eye:
November 23, 2023 - Mohamed Mouin Ayyash, a Palestinian journalist and a freelance photographer, was killed in an Israeli airstrike on his home in Nuseirat refugee camp in central Gaza, along with 20 members of his family...
November 20, 2023 - Ayat Khadoura, a Palestinian freelance journalist and podcast presenter, was killed along with an unknown number of family members in an Israeli airstrike on her home...
November 20, 2023 - Alaa Taher Al-Hassanat, a Palestinian journalist and presenter at AlMajedat Media Network, was killed, along with multiple members of her family, in an Israeli airstrike that hit her house...
I counted sixteen instances of journalists being killed in their homes. Imagine if that had happened in Iran or Ukraine.
Imagine if any of this happened in Iran or Ukraine. According to the United Nations (https://ukraine.un.org/en/253322-civilian-deaths-ukraine-war-top-10000-un-says), in the 640 days since the war in the Ukraine began, at least 10,000 civilians, including more than 560 children, have been killed and over 18,500 have been injured. The world was outraged.
By comparison (https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/hostilities-gaza-strip-and-israel-flash-update-50-enarhe), in the 50 days since the "War on Hamas" began, 14,800 people have been killed in Gaza alone, including about 6,000 children and 4,000 women, with unknown numbers of injured, starving, and sick. The world shrugs.
Putin - bad guy. Netanyahu - good guy. (This isn't me defending either but questioning the judgement and loyalty of our media and governments over the last 75 years.)
Sorry about the above dp - I only just noticed it.
One of those "let's end the news on a high note" segments:
Most Australian Interview Ever (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb3nZhPk0Qo)
The French are really good at protesting:
Rural France turned upside-down by farmers (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67702462)
Always baffling when people thank Grud for having survived a natural disaster, but don't blame Grud for having sent the disaster their way in the first place. Why is Grud juggling babies anyway?
Baby found alive in tree after Tennessee tornado (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67732126)
TikToker crying for being shouted at for asking for accomodation with her "Time Blindness" & lateness
https://www.comicsands.com/time-blindness-accommodations-tiktok-debate-2662286937.html?
The best candidate for the impending U.S. (s)election? (https://yardrock2024.com/)
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 15 December, 2023, 07:18:57 PMAlways baffling when people thank Grud for having survived a natural disaster, but don't blame Grud for having sent the disaster their way in the first place. Why is Grud juggling babies anyway?
Baby found alive in tree after Tennessee tornado (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67732126)
(https://i.imgur.com/gmwiqIg.jpg)
See, there's hope for the world: Tetris: US teenager claims to be first to beat video game (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67871775)
And I thought I'd beat it every time I made the rocket go up on my hand-held. O, the innocence of youth...
Quote from: rogue69 on 26 December, 2023, 11:04:54 PMTikToker crying for being shouted at for asking for accomodation with her "Time Blindness" & lateness
https://www.comicsands.com/time-blindness-accommodations-tiktok-debate-2662286937.html?
Just thought I'd reply to this to point out that time blindness is an actual thing which doesn't necessitate quotation marks, and is relatively common among folk on the autistic spectrum and also those with ADHD. So, (depending on what the job is), it's not totally unreasonable for her to ask about it.
Quote from: M.I.K. on 03 January, 2024, 09:02:18 PMQuote from: rogue69 on 26 December, 2023, 11:04:54 PMTikToker crying for being shouted at for asking for accomodation with her "Time Blindness" & lateness
https://www.comicsands.com/time-blindness-accommodations-tiktok-debate-2662286937.html?
Just thought I'd reply to this to point out that time blindness is an actual thing which doesn't necessitate quotation marks, and is relatively common among folk on the autistic spectrum and also those with ADHD. So, (depending on what the job is), it's not totally unreasonable for her to ask about it.
It's one of those things (the story) that probably gets a lot of mileage from people who are ready to get all gammon-faced about a supposed lack of worth in a younger generation, or the fact that mental health support is now stronger and more talked about (& more diagnosed, and more understood) than it has been in the past.
Of course, looking at it simplistically, it isn't okay (all things being equal) to rock up to work late. On the other hand, one might imagine that someone who struggles with estimating or tracking the passage of time might struggle to get to work on time - and especially perhaps for their first couple of shifts.
It doesn't take too much brain power to figure out that there are methods we can use to help, though. Without wanting to be facetious, we have access to time-telling devices, and even travel-time estimators (usually in our pockets) that would allow us to fight back against our nature (if it were tripping us up).
On balance - and it's not really entirely clear from this young person's TikTok - it does appear that they may be somewhat deluded about how much the world is willing to bend, as regards being able to rock up to work on time. (At the same time, it should be possible to explain that to them without being aggressive or belittling.)
Accommodations are things that tend to happen for folk in education, and allow them some leeway. The world of work isn't really set up the same way, for the most part. So, one can imagine a young person's confusion switching from one system to the other.
(Or, y'know, shelve your humanity entirely, go off and make a Netflix special in which you belittle the f*ck out of a bunch of minorities for $$$, like Ricky COCK Gervais. My favorite rebuttal so far has been by Frankie Boyle (https://deadline.com/2023/12/ricky-gervais-armageddon-netflix-frankie-boyle-jokes-trans-people-lazy-1235683405/), although I also appreciated James Acaster's take (https://youtu.be/adh0KGmgmQw).)
When on 15 October 2023 I wrote in this very thread,
"We've got to figure out how to South Africa the shit out of this thing,"
I had no inkling that South Africa would be the country to stand up and call Israel to account before the International Court of Justice.
For anyone who's interested in watching two rather long videos of court proceedings, here are the two arguments:
South Africa presents its case against Israel at the ICJ. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4f_yoal4gx8)
and
Israel presents its case at the ICJ. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=939hSvcH0qM)
I have little hope that this proceeding will go anywhere as politics will decide the outcome, not law. (I suspect the U.S. and U.K. judges will likely dismiss South Africa's case or abstain - because both those countries (among others) have actively supported and aided Israel's actions, which leaves them open to charges of assisting genocide.) There is always hope, though, that with a little luck international law will prevail.
BBC Article: Pope Francis says sexual pleasure is 'a gift from God' (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-68016311)
So much wrong with this. First - creepy! Second - advice on sexual activity from the Catholic church? Last time I looked, the priesthood was a collection of crusty virgins (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clerical_celibacy_in_the_Catholic_Church) and/or child molesters (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases). (Links to Wikipedia pages.)
Quite why the BBC sees fit to propagate this sort of dangerous bullshit under the banner of "news" speaks to a wider problem with our cultural doffing of the cap to this ancient brand of chicanery.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 18 January, 2024, 08:50:46 PMQuite why the BBC sees fit to propagate this ...
I would argue that the BBC definitely should report opinions from the leader of one of the planets biggest religions regardless of whether I agree with him or not.
Damn your Vulcan logic, Mister Pops!
I'm with Pops here - Pope Jim Bowen is a fecking eejit whose office, imho, should not exist, and who should just shut the fuck up about things he knows nothing about.
But.. what he said is quite interesting and surprising, given his church's malign and powerful influence over matters of sexuality in the past, and I'm glad someone reported it.
It doesn't get the Catholic church off the hook, of course. It turned my country into some kind of Handmaid's Tale theme park with a side order of vicious child abuse for most of the 20th century and hasn't even come close to making reparations.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 19 January, 2024, 10:27:03 AMIt doesn't get the Catholic church off the hook, of course.
The Church has never been more than a reflection of society. The Church never had any more power than we were prepared to give it. When we decided to stay in bed late on Sundays and do some shopping afterwards, there was damn all that the Church could do about it.
The danger of blaming all the evils and failings on the Church is that it absolves all the gobshites who were happy to let the religious institutions deal with their embarrassments for them.
The Church is a spent force, but the gobshites are still in power.
I shed my faith ages ago, but oddly enough I have no problem with the Church. It never did me any actual harm, and deep down I feel that it's better to have religion organised by a centuries-old relict of the Roman imperial administration than to leave it in the hands of evangelical yahoos who claim to know the will of God.
...Mind you, I might think differently if the Inquisition came knocking on my door.
('
It was him! The one from Kells with the blasphemous username! He was the one denying the Trinity and reading Pat Mills stories! Not me!')
Well... I suppose it never did me too much harm either. But its representatives did people I know very well plenty of harm. And yes, we as a society were prepared to let them rule us, but would abused children and their families have been happy with their dominance over society? And if they'd been listened to properly, would we still have embraced the church so whole-heartedly?
I feel we would have shed their all-encompassing influence long before we did if they hadn't had the power to make crimes disappear. I don't quite buy the argument that we're all guilty of their crimes - I went to a Catholic school and I didn't know what they were getting up to, and neither did my parents.
Sure, the Bible-bashing types that have so much influence in the States are awful, but again, I can't see how that gets the Catholic Church off the hook.
Quote from: JohnW on 19 January, 2024, 02:10:03 PMThe Church has never been more than a reflection of society.
*Incorrect buzzer noise*
Quote from: JohnW on 19 January, 2024, 02:10:03 PMI might think differently if the Inquisition came knocking on my door
*Happy bing bong noise of correctness*
---
Organized oppression is not the fault of the oppressed. That's victim-blaming, and I'm guessing you wouldn't normally do it, except that this involves a religion you quite like, so somehow gets a free pass.
Ah, Funt – don't ever change!
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 19 January, 2024, 03:35:06 AMDamn your Vulcan logic, Mister Pops!
(https://media1.tenor.com/m/FxqOaKR_HXEAAAAd/spock-the-simpsons.gif)
"The Church never had any more power than we were prepared to give it."
The same for every faith-based control system from Catholicism to Communism.
Assuming that also extends to pseudo-anarchism.
It's funny, i'd never describe myself as a theist of any measure but I have found great comfort in studying noted texts that could be collectively considered of a 'mystic' nature, to the degree a once staunch atheist would better be self described as an studying theologian.
And yet my disdain for organised religion on the principle of its very nature has never ceased to revolt me.
I definitely draw a distinction between the study of religious artefacts (including texts such as the bible) and any belief in their associated fictions. My favorite atheists tend to have gone to the trouble of studying existing religious texts, the better to point our their fallibilities. I dangle on their coattails like a demented kitten.
I've been disappointed to note that Richard Dawkins is now getting wheeled out for thinly-veiled anti-trans rhetoric. I know he's smart enough to be able to tell the difference between biological sex and the idea of gender as a social structure - but he appears to be under the impression that only one of those things exists. It smacks of disingenuity. Mind you, he's getting older and so it fits the stereotype of a grumpy oldster rather well.
Dick Dawkins fulfilling the nominative determinism of his christian name? Heaven forfend!
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 19 January, 2024, 08:58:55 PMAssuming that also extends to pseudo-anarchism.
Of course it does.
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 19 January, 2024, 08:58:55 PMIt's funny, i'd never describe myself as a theist of any measure but I have found great comfort in studying noted texts that could be collectively considered of a 'mystic' nature, to the degree a once staunch atheist would better be self described as an studying theologian.
Entirely tangential to this (for which I apologise, Hawkmumbler, it's just that your post brought it to mind for some reason)...
I've wobbled between agnostic and atheist my entire life, but I remember one day during my Eng. Lit. degree when I was reading
The Pilgrim's Progress... I can't even remember now which bit I was reading but, out of nowhere, I was suddenly and overwhelmingly struck by the feeling that there
was a God, and that (s)he loved me. It came out of nowhere and was entirely startling.
The feeling was transitory but has, ever since, caused me to give credence to Alan Moore's belief that writing is an act of magic. That a man could put some words on paper that would reach out over 320-ish years and
literally plant a thought in my brain that was entirely antithetical to my entire notion of myself... it was entirely remarkable and, although it didn't have the lasting effect that Bunyan would (presumably) have intended, it
did change me in a way.
Words. Powerful things, in the right hands.
(Edit to add: The Pilgrim's Progress is worth reading, BTW... apart from having a fairly good claim to being the first novel in the English language, and casting
The Wizard of Oz in a different (and thoroughly admirable) light, there's an underlying element of class war that any serious 2000AD fan will probably enjoy.)
World Court verdict on Israel / Gaza genocide case. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Zo3fNBRVZQ)
Cautiously optimistic.
Russia's Supreme Court has moved to classify the "international LGBT social movement" as an extremist organization. (https://time.com/6342383/russias-court-ban-of-the-lgbtq-movement/)
Now being recognised as 'valid' by the state I have come to discover is a folly, and it's a hurdle I and other queer people are gradually stepping passed as a battle that simply can't be won.
But this is just heinous, a morally and ethically pustular action that has and will continue to put the lives and queer and gender nonconforming people at great risk if there is no systematic protection net to aid and shield them from active and malicious harm that such a sentencing endorses.
I realise I'm speaking from the perspective of a boring, middle-aged straight man (albeit one that is mistaken for a gay man very frequently), but I'm always amazed more isn't made of Putin's appalling policies of marginalising LGBTQ+ people. For a man allegedly trying to 'de-nazify' a foreign country through force, he certainly seems like a grade-A Nazi in that respect. Along with many other respects, of course.
Sadly I've met one or two otherwise very pleasant expat Russians who hold similar views.
Homophobia is abhorrent already, but when it's state-sponsored, well - where are the words? I suppose Hawkmumbler nailed it with "heinous, a morally and ethically pustular action".
This is harrowing, I should warn you. A BBC report.
Israel-Gaza war: Mystery fate of six-year-old Palestinian girl trapped under fire (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68180642)
That truly is dreadful. What Hamas did was appalling of course, but how they can justify killing 250 innocent people a day just doesn't fit into my head.
The UK is one of the nations to stop funding UNWRA, the main aid support for Gaza, because Israel claims 12 (actually closer to 4) of its 13,000 workers are members of Hamas. This is helping with the genocide. Our country's government is criminal and murderous. I will never support it. Never.
Michigan shooter's mother found guilty of manslaughter (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68223118)
I thought this was an interesting case. Clearly, the shooter is guilty. Now, the mother has been found culpable. The article points out that some people involved in the case want the School Administration to also stand trial.
Nobody is suggesting that perhaps the gun manufacturer should face prosecution.
There are no right directions here, but perhaps this is getting close to being a step towards a system that would help put a halt to all the shooting deaths in the US.
Quote from: Funt Solo [R] on 06 February, 2024, 10:21:30 PMMichigan shooter's mother found guilty of manslaughter (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68223118)
I thought this was an interesting case. Clearly, the shooter is guilty. Now, the mother has been found culpable. The article points out that some people involved in the case want the School Administration to also stand trial.
Nobody is suggesting that perhaps the gun manufacturer should face prosecution.
There are no right directions here, but perhaps this is getting close to being a step towards a system that would help put a halt to all the shooting deaths in the US.
It's a vast mountain to climb, but it's a step in the right direction.
Second Alabama clinic pauses IVF treatments after frozen embryo ruling (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68373901)
My clone brothers and I would never have been created under such a regime.
Ghana passes bill making identifying as LGBTQ+ illegal (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-68353437)
Another slip towards hell.
Quote from: Rogue Trooper on 28 February, 2024, 06:48:24 PMGhana passes bill making identifying as LGBTQ+ illegal (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-68353437)
Another slip towards hell.
'MPs said the bill was drafted in response to the opening of Ghana's first LGBTQ+ community centre in the capital, Accra, in January 2021.
Police shut the centre following public protests, and pressure from religious bodies and traditional leaders in the largely Christian nation.'
I was about to say 'God help us all', but He seems to be a big inspiration for this kind of dystopian bullshit.
This is the consequence of conflating legislation and natural human Law. All humans are equal and anything to the contrary, even if (especially if) it's written down, is bogus. Legislation is all very well as a guide, but it should never and must never be seen as equal with Law. That way pogroms lie.
:-X
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 28 February, 2024, 11:01:08 PMThis is the consequence of conflating legislation and natural human Law. All humans are equal and anything to the contrary, even if (especially if) it's written down, is bogus. Legislation is all very well as a guide, but it should never and must never be seen as equal with Law. That way pogroms lie.
You continue to assert a difference between "legislation" and "law" that exists only in your head, as was clearly explained to you earlier in this very thread.
So, whenever a government passes legislation to commit murder on a certain group of people for any reason, that's fine, is it? It's lawful to kill some people just because some other people wrote it down?
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 29 February, 2024, 10:54:54 AMSo, whenever a government passes legislation to commit murder on a certain group of people for any reason, that's fine, is it? It's lawful to kill some people just because some other people wrote it down?
Again, you're confusing morality with law. Law is law because people with the power to pass legislation say it's the law. That's how laws work. Something being law doesn't make it
right — literally everything the Nazis did was legal, it just wasn't moral.
Inventing a different category of 'law' doesn't miraculously make it so, I'm afraid. You mean morality. Calling it something else also doesn't make it so.
Seriously, Shark — there are eight-year-olds that understand this distinction. Your obtuseness on this point does you no favours.
You are correct. Natural human law, based on our fundamental instincts and nature, is very much morality. Legislation does not alter morality, therefore legislation does not alter basic law. Passing legislation that allows hanging, for example, does not alter the immorality, or unlawfulness, of murder.
You say "Law is law because people with the power to pass legislation say it's the law. That's how laws work." I would rephrase that as "Legislation is law because people with the power to pass legislation say it's the law. That's how legislation works." Basically, might makes right. I cannot go along with that, personally.
Something being legislation doesn't make it right (or moral/lawful). As I said, legislation can be fine as a guide but should never be imposed on anyone because for one human being to enforce their will on another is unlawful.
There is a distinction between legislation and law - and you're absolutely correct that morality plays a big part in that distinction - law (at least in theory if not always in practice) protects everyone, legislation protects the legislators. You are also correct that "Calling it something else also doesn't make it so." This is why adding the word "law" to "legislative" doesn't make it so. "Legislative law" makes as much sense as "immoral morality." This is why we've somehow gone from police upholding the law to police enforcing the law. The law to be upheld is common or natural human law, whereas it's legislative law that gets enforced - all based on wordplay.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 29 February, 2024, 11:39:47 AMThere is a distinction between legislation and law - and you're absolutely correct that morality plays a big part in that distinction - law (at least in theory if not always in practice) protects everyone
No, there isn't. That's the exact opposite of what I'm saying. Once again, we reach a point where it's impossible to discuss anything with you because you insist on redefining perfectly well-established terms to meet your rhetorical/philosophical stance, rendering them meaningless in the framework of the discussion.
Carry on being you. I'm done with this.
I'm genuinely sorry you feel that way, Jim, because I'm interested to know how you arrive at the conclusion that legislative and common law are the same when they are known to be different things (https://legaldictionary.net/common-law/).
See, Pops. It's not just me that takes the bait. We're just not allowed to have these current affairs threads be anything but the Shark Show. LGBTQ+ rights gets immediately converted into In Magic Land That Wouldn't Happen, Let Me Tell You About My Magic Words From Magic Land.
Anyone can play the game. Just try posting.
:-X
(I know, I know, I should organize a room.)
Well, what do you want me to say? If you want me to say that legislating against the LGBTQIA+ community is wrong, then I'll gladly say it. In fact, I'd say it was downright evil and condemn all such legislation in the same terms, no matter which group is targeted, why they are targeted or where they are.
My "mistake," it seems, stems from me trying to explain one of the major reasons why, in my view, the Ghana legislation is wrong by placing it in the wider context of not all laws being equal, which I view as a global systemic problem and not just a local problem specific to this case.
You yourself called the Ghana legislation "Another slip towards hell," which I agree with - but given the way you toss in concepts like "Magic Land" to deflect from discussion, I'm not entirely sure what you actually mean or even why you mean it. Care to expand your point?
Different topic, different thread, I think.
(Apologies to Pops for responding. Am definitely considering the obtainment of "a room".)
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 29 February, 2024, 03:52:02 PMYou yourself called the Ghana legislation "Another slip towards hell," which I agree with - but given the way you toss in concepts like "Magic Land" to deflect from discussion, I'm not entirely sure what you actually mean or even why you mean it. Care to expand your point?
I'm guessing Funt meant that you are talking about the stateless, government-free world that you envisage. I truly think it would be a better world without states too but personally I feel frustrated when so many mentions of current affairs on this thread end up circling back to the same debate.
Well, not exactly. Sure, I do want a better world for everyone, with no exceptions and no compromises, but I don't know what that world will actually look like. I can suggest elements that might contribute to such a world but that is all. It's not for me to tell anyone how to build their own futures.
All I can do is give you my perspective, what you do with that is not up to me. What is up to me are the words I write, and they give my opinion that many (but by no means all) current affairs nightmares stem from the same underlying problems. In the case of the nightmarish Ghana legislation, the underlying problem - again, from my perspective - is the conflation of different types of law leading to the general false perception that law flows down from the ruling classes and cannot be questioned or disobeyed. It is this general mindset that leads to egregious examples of inhumanity such as the Ghana legislation, the ongoing annihilation of Gaza, and the all too numerous pogroms and wars throughout history. For me, treating the Ghana legislation as separate from the Gaza emergency or the Communist disaster is like treating one boil on a plague victim, trying to cure the body boil by boil.
That is my assessment of a big problem highlighted, again in my view, by the Ghana legislation. You may agree with my assessment, or bits of it, or disagree with all of it.
I admit that my solutions are currently nothing more than suggestions geared towards paving the way for that better world we all want, but I'm happy to explore other ideas and perspectives. That, however, puts the cart before the horse (a common practice in Magic Land); we must first agree that this problem with the perception of legislation as ultimate law is a problem in itself. Maybe you don't think it's a problem, or maybe just a minor glitch in the system; I don't discount those possibilities but so far I've heard nothing to disabuse me of my opinion on this. Which is not to say that I'm right and everyone else is wrong, maybe it is the other way around, I can't be certain. Who can?
Anyway, I'm sorry for the frustrating nature of my posts but they are genuinely meant and as honest as I can make them.
President Michael D Higgins taken to hospital after feeling unwell at Áras an Uachtaráin (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/president-michael-d-higgins-taken-to-hospital-after-feeling-unwell-at-aras-an-uachtarain/a1599512900.html)
This is terrible news.
Quote from: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 29 February, 2024, 08:53:18 PMPresident Michael D Higgins taken to hospital after feeling unwell at Áras an Uachtaráin (https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/president-michael-d-higgins-taken-to-hospital-after-feeling-unwell-at-aras-an-uachtarain/a1599512900.html)
This is terrible news.
Oh feck. I really hope he's OK. It's not often I like and respect state leaders but MDH is one of the good guys.
Looks like the prognosis is OK so far - hope he's back on his feet soon. For those who don't know (and why should you if you're not from here?), our president is mostly a symbolic position. Like the King, except we voted for him.
This particular guy is an educated, dignified and knowledgeable type. He's a poet and a gentleman, and a nice counterbalance to the self-serving moneygrabbers who hold actual power here in Ireland. He's managed to fend off the right wing populist gobshites in a couple of elections (but not by as wide a margin as I'm comfortable with, sadly).
Palestine: A Video Essay by Shaun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xottY-7m3k)
Probably one of the best at-arms-length reflections on the ongoing massacre and Israels damnable attempts to downplay or outright whitewash it, and in addition to the evergreen issue at hand it also addresses something I see precious few people considering, that of the antisemitic policies of Israeli law enforcement and the IDF in the Gaza strip and West bank that either proactively decry the governments actions or offer aid to Palestinians in their immediate communities.
Harrowing, monstrous.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 01 March, 2024, 09:20:47 AMLooks like the prognosis is OK so far - hope he's back on his feet soon. For those who don't know (and why should you if you're not from here?), our president is mostly a symbolic position. Like the King, except we voted for him.
Well, best wishes for him.
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 01 March, 2024, 01:15:42 PMPalestine: A Video Essay by Shaun (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xottY-7m3k)
Probably one of the best at-arms-length reflections on the ongoing massacre and Israels damnable attempts to downplay or outright whitewash it, and in addition to the evergreen issue at hand it also addresses something I see precious few people considering, that of the antisemitic policies of Israeli law enforcement and the IDF in the Gaza strip and West bank that either proactively decry the governments actions or offer aid to Palestinians in their immediate communities.
Harrowing, monstrous.
A good video, I thought, that gets the basics across pretty well.
A C4 report presented by Paraic O'Brien: West Bank settler expansion: a year on the frontline (https://youtu.be/yJZOOZCH4qI?si=c2Ia_dmwwe14WM3m)
You might get some dust in your eye from this short BBC report: Eight-year-old boy born with one hand gets Spider-Man bionic arm (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-somerset-68452723)
CNN saw what's inside aid packs destined for Gaza, and investigates why they're not reaching civilians (https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2024/03/01/gaza-aid-jordan-investigation-nima-elbagir-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIfXvLdWsAAuJKw?format=jpg&name=medium)
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 13 March, 2024, 06:22:32 PM(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIfXvLdWsAAuJKw?format=jpg&name=medium)
Only that's quite obviously bollox as the UN stopped counting in Ukraine 2 years ago and no-one has set foot in Sudan or Ethiopia. The figures from Gaza are also "compiled" by the "Ministry of Health in Gaza" which is a front for Hamas. Lots of dead - yes; believable, trustworthy data - no.
Quote from: Lorenzo on 13 March, 2024, 10:29:47 PMOnly that's quite obviously bollox as the UN stopped counting in Ukraine 2 years ago and no-one has set foot in Sudan or Ethiopia. The figures from Gaza are also "compiled" by the "Ministry of Health in Gaza" which is a front for Hamas. Lots of dead - yes; believable, trustworthy data - no.
Lorenzo, Lorenzo, Lorenzo, Lorenzo, Lorenzo, Lorenzo, Lorenzo,
Lorenzo. Lorenzo!
It's difficult to get accurate figures of the number of civilians killed in a war zone, yes indeed. It's difficult to measure trust in organizations that have vested interests, yes indeed. (That would be a high level of mistrust in the Israeli military, the Israeli government, the US government, the Egyptian government, Hamas etc.)
What do you think the motivation of the UNRWA is in posting such a graphic? I think it's to highlight that a lot of innocent children are being killed in the Gaza ghetto, by a brutal military and political regime whose long and short-term motives (judged by their actions) seem to be ... not honorable. There are things they could do - based on evidence gathered by neutral news organizations - to alleviate the suffering. They're choosing instead to bomb and starve out the ghetto they've created.
Even the Israeli's (army and government) would admit at this point that they've killed way, way more civilians than were killed during the Hamas assault that triggered this brutal response. (They'd blame Hamas for all the deaths, but they wouldn't deny them at this stage.)
Surely you're not saying you welcome the deaths? Lorenzo? You're not saying you welcome the deaths, are you?
Lorenzo?
Quote from: Lorenzo on 13 March, 2024, 10:29:47 PMas the UN stopped counting in Ukraine 2 years ago
Oh, and no, they didn't (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/#:~:text=Number%20of%20civilian%20casualties%20during%20the%20war%20in%20Ukraine%202022%2D2024&text=The%20Office%20of%20the%20United,reported%20to%20have%20been%20injured.).
Despite Biden's doubts, humanitarian agencies consider Gaza toll reliable. (https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/despite-bidens-doubts-humanitarian-agencies-consider-gaza-toll-reliable-2023-10-27/) (Reuters.)
Even Israeli Intelligence Has Deemed Hamas-Run Health Ministry's Death Toll Figures Generally Accurate (https://www.vice.com/en/article/y3w4w7/israeli-intelligence-health-ministry-death-toll) (Vice.)
That's quite a wall of text there, Funt. You trying to emulate your Nemesis?
Quote from: Funt Solo on 13 March, 2024, 10:53:50 PMSurely you're not saying you welcome the deaths? Lorenzo? You're not saying you welcome the deaths, are you? Lorenzo?
Absurd. Yes. Obviously, that is exactly what I'm saying. /Sarcasm. I quite clearly said I was dancing on their graves and not merely pointing out the spurious nature of the data. There have been 10's of thousands killed in Ethiopia, Sudan and Ukraine, etc, etc. but this isn't an emotional pissing contest to see who can pile the bodies highest. Concern for human rights shouldn't be limited to those that shout the loudest on social f*cking media.
But pointing out the number of civilian deaths in Gaza doesn't assume that we should ignore the other conflicts you mention, except for you saying that. And the numbers aren't spurious, as you claimed. So that's why I jumped in. You gave an aggressive response to Shark's post, and it's not clear why.
I would speculate on two reasons. Firstly, this is a horrible subject. It's hard to look at, it's hard to think about, it's hard to remain unemotional on and it's impossible to justify. It's hard to believe that our national and international bodies don't want to stop this, so maybe they have access to better figures that indicate things aren't as bad as doom-mongers like me proclaim. Trust me, I'd like to believe that these figures are wildly inflated as well or that the whole tragedy is just an AI generated media psi-op designed to keep us all scared and in our places. That might make for a good Netflix series but it's unlikely to be the truth. Maybe Lorenzo, being (like the rest of us) a good person at heart, simply doesn't believe that humans can be so coldly vicious to one another because he couldn't act that way himself, or even imagine himself doing so. It's a perfectly understandable reason to reply as he did.
Secondly, there seems to be a media battle over whether sharing such information is antisemitic or not, which is another very uncomfortable topic. This is not to say that Lorenzo accused me of this or anything else, he did not, just that the current philosophical climate may have influenced his post in that great care has to be taken separating propaganda, bigotry, and facts. In this sense, he is right to question the figures and to not take anything at face value - a crime of which I am somewhat guilty here. While that graphic came from the TwiXter feed of Philippe Lazzarini (https://twitter.com/UNLazzarini/status/1767618985397272831), the Commissioner-General of UNRWA, and was brought to my attention by an alternative media source I believe in, I haven't actually gone and checked the source data for myself. This is me guilty of passing on received knowledge based entirely on other people's opinions. The figures will not be accurate in either column for obvious reasons, but I have a fair amount of confidence that these are at least ball-park figures and not antisemitic at all. Inherently anti-Zionist, yes, but nothing else.
In the final panel, this is a very emotional subject and it's easy to allow emotion to drive our words, as you and I both know all to well, Funty me old china, and it's fine for emotion to play a part - it's the fuel for every campaign - but fuel is no good without an engine, and that engine is our rational half. Our control structures rely too much on manipulating emotions to the detriment of rationality. As with most things, a balance is required.
TL;DR - I welcome Lorenzo's engagement in the subject.
I really don't have the time/inclination to get into long internet discussions. So, apologies for the drive by comments/handgrenade, but:
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 14 March, 2024, 03:44:14 PMSecondly, there seems to be a media battle over whether sharing such information is antisemitic or not, which is another very uncomfortable topic. This is not to say that Lorenzo accused me of this or anything else, he did not, just that the current philosophical climate may have influenced his post in that great care has to be taken separating propaganda, bigotry, and facts. In this sense, he is right to question the figures and to not take anything at face value...
This, exactly. There is a large body of people who are using data like this for exactly that reason. Where were all of these Pro-Palestine types, wearing there freshly ironed keffiyeh, when Yarmouk refugee camp was levelled (for example).
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 14 March, 2024, 03:44:14 PMThe figures will not be accurate in either column for obvious reasons
Which was entirely my point.
Quote from: Lorenzo on 14 March, 2024, 05:26:43 PMWhere were all of these Pro-Palestine types, wearing there freshly ironed keffiyeh, when Yarmouk refugee camp was levelled (for example)
So people shouldn't try and highlight civilians being killed now because they weren't involved in highlighting them in the past? That doesn't really follow.
Ultimately, you're just some random on the Internet shouting down a graph produced by the UN. They have the clear motive of trying to highlight an injustice so that humanity might see its way to stopping more of the same. Your motive for vociferously attacking the information remains opaque. Is it just casual cynicism?
Quote from: Funt Solo on 14 March, 2024, 06:02:20 PMQuote from: Lorenzo on 14 March, 2024, 05:26:43 PMWhere were all of these Pro-Palestine types, wearing there freshly ironed keffiyeh, when Yarmouk refugee camp was levelled (for example)
So people shouldn't try and highlight civilians being killed now because they weren't involved in highlighting them in the past? That doesn't really follow.
As The Shark intimated above, some of the loudest protesters now are merely anti-semites and that is the only reason they are invested in this. Just as the rest of the Arab world did f. all during the Syrian civil war. It's disingenuous.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 14 March, 2024, 06:02:20 PMUltimately, you're just some random on the Internet...
Ha! I'm sure you're not "some random" but this is where I step out.
Lorenzo makes an excellent point. Where were people like me while all this was going on in the past?
Personally I didn't really understand the situation, thinking it was some ancient and complicated religious feud I simply wasn't informed enough to comment on beyond the most basic blanket condemnations of human-on-human violence. However, my understanding deepened as a result of the October 7th attacks. While the mainstream media proceeded from the assumption that the current situation basically began on October 7th, the better alternative media reports set the current events in the context of the last seventy five years (and more) and suddenly it didn't seem so complicated any more. Israel has been stealing Palestine for nearly a century, village by village, farm by farm, home by home. That's the core of the problem, religion's just the excuse. Now I understand. Now I see the barbarity of it. Now I feel "qualified" to comment and justified in feeling anger towards those enabling or excusing this failure of our collective humanity.
More importantly, where was the government or the BBC? Everything I've learned comes from publicly available and ostensibly reliable sources (Amnesty International, the UN, etc.) documenting horrific events stretching back decades. How were journalists and politicians not condemning this history of atrocities all along? How is it that, on the contrary, anyone who did criticise the situation ended up being viciously harangued or fired or smeared as a racist?
The sickening way our government is responding makes me feel like one of the characters in Mitchell & Webb's excellent Are we the Baddies? sketch.
So yeah, I am late to this party - but I'm here now and, as you all know, I always bring a bit of punch...
[Responding to Lorenzo's last post.]
Well, compared to the UN I also count myself in the group "some random", yes.
---
Now you're intimating that people who want civilian deaths in the Gaza conflict to stop are anti-Semitic. That's a ludicrous statement, given that a lot of the people you're talking about are Jewish.
At no point since the UN data was posted have you agreed that you'd like the civilian deaths in the Gaza conflict (on either side, mind you) to stop. I've invited you to several times. I can only assume, then, that you don't. All the other things you're saying seem like hand waving to avoid that central point.
I suppose this brings up the question of why you want the civilian deaths to continue? You don't need to answer.
And, y'know, this is not really about scoring points on a silly little message board. It's really happening, and it's really avoidable. We can protest to our governments, we can donate in the hope that aid will reach them.
Trigger warning - this C4 news report is not easy to look at (even just clicking the link shows you an image none of us would like to see):
- Inside Northern Gaza: kids desperate for food and medicine (https://www.channel4.com/news/inside-northern-gaza-kids-desperate-for-food-and-medicine)
Quote from: Funt Solo on 14 March, 2024, 08:55:20 PM[Responding to Lorenzo's last post.]
I suppose this brings up the question of why you want the civilian deaths to continue?
That's an incredibly scurrilous accusation.
...that you've quoted outside of the context it was placed within.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 14 March, 2024, 07:51:49 PMLorenzo makes an excellent point. Where were people like me while all this was going on in the past?
Personally I didn't really understand the situation, thinking it was some ancient and complicated religious feud I simply wasn't informed enough to comment on beyond the most basic blanket condemnations of human-on-human violence.
On one level this is not a wholly inaccurate understanding. There certainly is that dimension to this conflict although it has grown inevitably far more complex over time.
There is the small matter of the Crusades to factor in as the massed ranks of European chivalry answered the papal call to 'free the holy lands' (again, this doesn't accurately describe events during this period).
If you skip forward several centuries, quite a bit of the current conflict is rooted in the machinations of the late 19th Century and the post WW1 dismantling of the Ottoman Empire. This is where Britain really comes into its own as a villain of the piece with its chicanery around many of the nations currently involved in the conflicts and tensions of the region although America and France are equally implicated with their manoeuvring around oil.
Skip forward to the post WW2 decisions in the wake of the Holocaust and you add another layer of challenge. The establishment of Israel once more as a distinct nation, rejection of a two state solution and general indifference towards Palestinians even among other nations in the region, coupled with the approach of Israel to how it approached Palestinians as well, is arguably the latest phase in this age-old problem.
Another jump to the tail-end of the 20th Century with the Iranian and Iraqi revolutions and the establishment of two nations implacably hostile to Israel ... well, you can guess how that worked out, really. The obvious hostility of both nations to America, and by default to the nation they sometimes see as America's regional proxy (although in Iran's case there is also a profound thread of Anti-Semitism) has only really been tempered by the decades long feud they were engaged in.
In Iran's case though, taking a leaf out of the Russian and American playbooks, proxy fighting has become the preferred approach over the years. As a relatively low-cost approach with limited exposure, provisioning 'freedom fighters' and other assorted groups has kept the conflict simmering.
Of course the rather aggressive approach of settler groups in Israel has not helped either. To argue that this is all the fault of Iranian-backed groups misses this dimension. In allowing such activity, the Israeli state has given credence to the grievances of groups like Hamas. As circumstances in places like the Gaza Strip have become increasingly dire, Israel has almost become a recruiting sergeant for its own enemies.
Even this is a gross over-simplification of an insanely complex issue that the greatest political minds of the last few generations have been grappling with. It is highly doubtful that these issues will resolve themselves shortly.
TLDR version: Its all fucked, I'm going to the pub.
Israel gives more than just credence: Netanyahu: Money to Hamas part of strategy to keep Palestinians divided. (https://www.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Netanyahu-Money-to-Hamas-part-of-strategy-to-keep-Palestinians-divided-583082) (Jerusalem Post.)
Amidst all the mayhem, this easily falsifiable nonsense gave me a wee chuckle:
Irish Ambassador to Israel tells audience that during the troubles, she lived in Belfast and spent every second night in bomb shelters. (https://www.reddit.com/r/northernireland/comments/1bfglgx/irish_ambassador_to_israel_tells_audience_that/) (reddit link)
Another thing that gave me a chuckle was the BBC unironically accusing the Russians of holding a corrupt and unfair election.
I hear Princess Anne is a pod-person from Alpha Centauri now, father.
So did Varadkar resign because the recent poll thing was a bust?
Nah, it's cos he fucked up the photoshop for Princess Kate.
Ha!
Yeah, I'm guessing the referendum was a big factir in it, but I think that was just a part of the bigger picture of the ruling parties steadily hemorrhaging popular support, and Sinn Féin mopping it up.
Not that Sinn Féin will be getting my vote either any time soon, mind you.
Grumpy gran aged 75 is global Fortnite gaming sensation (https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-68635687)
Fair play. I remember my Mam in the 80s pouring scorn on our Spectrum games, all of which she said were variations of the theme of 'little men running along shelves' (and in fairness, there were a lot of Jet Set Willy clones back then).
She's 80 in a few weeks and these days she's Candy-Crushing away with the best of them, along with many other phone games.
My Mum's 80 as well but she thinks the internet is something to do with unisex underwear.
BBC brief: Vintage Marvel comic collection sells for £13k (https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cpek8x51wd3o)
Rogue Trooper gets criticized for its naming conventions: the guy in the bag is Bagman etc. It seems too unrealistic, they say.
But a man called "Bankman-Fried" just got 25 years for running a crypto-Ponzi scheme. The most famous case before that was Bernie Madoff (who made-off with other people's money). Lou Pearlman stole everyone's pearls. Gerald Payne got 27 years, which had to hurt. Don't even get me started on Charles Ponzi!
Quote from: Funt Solo on 28 March, 2024, 05:10:39 PMRogue Trooper gets criticized for its naming conventions: the guy in the bag is Bagman etc. It seems too unrealistic, they say.
But a man called "Bankman-Fried" just got 25 years for running a crypto-Ponzi scheme. The most famous case before that was Bernie Madoff (who made-off with other people's money). Lou Pearlman stole everyone's pearls. Gerald Payne got 27 years, which had to hurt. Don't even get me started on Charles Ponzi!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9664000/9664697.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9664000/9664697.stm)
Brayan Talbot no less appears in this BBC tribute to his comic longevity.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wear-68712698
Donald Trump's ego at work in his latest campaign ad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbOUSn_pN8o
Quote from: rogue69 on 08 April, 2024, 09:52:31 PMDonald Trump's ego at work in his latest campaign ad
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbOUSn_pN8o
Ack! I've vomited!
I was watching a bizarre documentary - The Antisocial Network: Memes to Mayhem - which posits the notion that Trump's rise to power is directly attributable to 8chan and Gamergate. While this may seem (and feels) like an ego-stretch, the way it's portrayed in the doc is fairly persuasive.
++Nothing to see here++
Good god. I'm genuinely dreading this year's US election. You might have a better insight than I do, Funt, living stateside- what the hell do people see in him? As far as I can see he hasn't got a single redeeming quality.
Well, it's complicated. I live in the east of Washington state, which is a blue (Democratic) state. We haven't voted red (Donald/Republican) since 1984. Also, I live in a relatively built up area pretty near to the big cities. That generally means people are a bit more open-minded and liberal, which is kinda what the Dems represent. More or less. If you go east you get to the more sparsely populated areas - and that means farms, and that means people like Republican things like racism, privatization, a maximum of two genders, THE BIBLE, and so on. Again, generally. More or less.
Look, here's a map of our state from the last election:
(https://i.imgur.com/01JgBhv.png)
Red seems to take up more space, but there are literally fewer brains there.
---
None of this answers very well why people vote for Trump, because (in all fairness) it's not in anyone's best interest to vote for a fascist who would happily bulldoze you if you looked at him funny. He would throw anyone at all under the bus if it would promote his own interests - as has been made abundantly clear over time by his actions. And yet! Even those who he has personally thrown under a moving bus (e.g. Pence) still lickspittle up to him because they survived, and there's still the smell of power lingering around the Orange C*nt.
---
I still haven't answered it. They're disenfranchised and he promised he would franchise 'em, and (crucially) they believe him. The Christian Fundies love him, because he's managed to stock the Supreme Court with a bunch of 'em and now they're all set to enslave women as walking baby-factories, and make being gay illegal. The white supremacists love him, because he's a racist, father. The gun-nuts love him because he doesn't give a fuck if a bunch of kiddies get shot as long as there's some profit in it (and some of them are so bored that civil war sounds kind of like a hoot). 8chan love him because of the Q-lulz. Conspiracy nuts love him because his existence feeds their need for meaning.
I realize you could read this as "farmers are backwards, racist, misogynistic, fuck-heads", and be all like "Funt, man, I know a nice farmer", but look at the map. It's farmers. White ones.
You kind of need population density on a map like that too, to show just how much a lot of red areas are just a dozen shitheads and some cows.
Thanks Funt, appreciate the comprehensive answer to my question. And yeah, I suppose I'm a bit stuck in my Liberal bubble and shy away from the reality that there are a lot of bigots and / or gullible people out there.
The people I know on this side of the Atlantic who like him, Christ help us all, generally fall into the gullible camp (though of course there's no shortage of bigotry here either). They've either gone down QAnon-style internet rabbit holes about paedophilia cover-ups, or bought into the idea that 'woke'='bad' and the Democrats are somehow all about spreading woke ideology. Or they believe the Democrats are somehow far-left Marxists, even though they're to the right of the most right-wing mainstream parties here. Though we're catching up, sadly.
Thanks for explaining Funt. It makes way to much sense.
Now, I would like to say, as a right-leaning kiwi*: Fuck Trump and tricycle he rode in on. If narcassism had a colour, it would be orange. The election this year is likely to be a freaking shit show.
*in fairness, a right-leaning kiwi is usually very left of a left-leading American.
Quote from: Angry Vince on 09 April, 2024, 10:30:14 AMThanks for explaining Funt. It makes way to much sense.
Now, I would like to say, as a right-leaning kiwi*: Fuck Trump and tricycle he rode in on. If narcassism had a colour, it would be orange. The election this year is likely to be a freaking shit show.
*in fairness, a right-leaning kiwi is usually very left of a left-leading American.
It's been a while, so I can't remember the forum rules around politics and swearing. In fairness though, the guy is a prolapsed anus with an orange tan, so I'll let my comment stand until told otherwise.
Quote from: Art on 09 April, 2024, 04:46:12 AMYou kind of need population density on a map like that too, to show just how much a lot of red areas are just a dozen shitheads and some cows.
Of course, a big part of the problem with the US political system is the disproportionate weighting it gives to those rural shitheads, both through the electoral college (which means that one person's presidential election vote in, say, Wyoming, counts the same as four people's votes in California) and the Senate (Wyoming, population 576,000 = two senators; California, population 39,000,000 = two senators).
Nowhere is friendly any more. The right is hating on the left, the left is hating on the right, the middle are labelled as whichever the 'other' side is. Could we all please stop hating.
When writing something, take a moment to mentally search & replace your text with the opposing version of each relevant term... white/black, straight/gay, cis/trans, male/female, left/right, etc, and re-read. If you'd be offended at that version, then what you've written is offensive.
Nowhere is friendly any more. :(
Except this forum!
(https://s.alicdn.com/@sc04/kf/Hf23740bb10dd4b55b8045a5d0742f58cg.jpg_300x300.jpg)
Quote from: Richard on 09 April, 2024, 02:18:17 PMExcept this forum!
Aye, there's the odd spat of course, but for a pack of comic nerds we're surprisingly non-toxic.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 09 April, 2024, 02:32:35 PMQuote from: Richard on 09 April, 2024, 02:18:17 PMExcept this forum!
Aye, there's the odd spat of course, but for a pack of comic nerds we're surprisingly non-toxic.
This is the first and only forum I've ever posted on with any regularity, because of this basically. Most other places on the internet seem like they would be stressful to engage with.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 09 April, 2024, 02:32:35 PMfor a pack of comic nerds we're surprisingly non-toxic.
Sez you, fuck-face.
Quote from: Fortnight on 09 April, 2024, 01:18:21 PMWhen writing something, take a moment to mentally search & replace your text with the opposing version of each relevant term... white/black, straight/gay, cis/trans, male/female, left/right, etc, and re-read. If you'd be offended at that version, then what you've written is offensive.
Lots of love and all, but this is leaning into false equivalency - but then the entire left/right divide is an over-simplification (I agree). I suppose what I'm trying to say is that white and black aren't equal, and because they're not, one can validly complain about the inequality. The phrase "black lives matter" does not mean the same thing as "white lives matter", because of the context we live in.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 09 April, 2024, 03:23:45 PMI suppose what I'm trying to say is that white and black aren't equal, and because they're not, one can validly complain about the inequality. The phrase "black lives matter" does not mean the same thing as "white lives matter", because of the context we live in.
I agree with this. My exasperation comes from how this past inequality is handled now. The past differences are irrelevant to the remedy - or at least to what
isn't the remedy. You can't fight bigotry against one group with bigotry against the "opposite" group. Racist aggressions (micro or not) against black people, for example, can't be negated with racism against white people. (And, please, let's not be a group who thinks it's not possible to be racist against white people.) All you end up with is more racism, regardless of the past inequalities between the two groups, and increased us-and-them thinking and 'othering.'
Constant pointing out "white people" as being a problem, when the problem is prejudice based on skin colour regardless of what that colour is, is still racism. Where and who the racism is coming from and directed to is irrelevant. Two wrongs don't make a right.
I find it a good exercise to replace any catch-all nouns in a headline (immigrants, asylum seekers, Catholics, Americans, etc.) with the word "humans" and see if it still makes sense.
I agree with Funt that the left/right paradigm is an oversimplification - but I would go further and say that it is so simple as to be virtually useless except as a tool for social control. For example, one side might want higher taxes and the other side might want lower taxes but neither side questions the legitimacy of or alternatives to taxation. Each side rests on the fundamental assumption that whichever prevails assumes power over everyone. Governments actually act as a buffer between the ruling/owning classes and the masses. In order to keep the status quo in place, governments divide into left and right wings to present to the public, so we can squabble over how we'd best like to be oppressed and exploited.
I know, I know. Shut up, Sharky.
Responding to Fortnight:
I find it easier to navigate this argument when I think of the current debate around trans identity being played out noisily in the media. Don't faint! Reason: I think that JK Rowling hates men. I have sympathy for feminism (I even think of myself as a feminist), but when people make blanket statements about men (e.g. "typical man") it gets my hackles up. Rowling seems to be saying that because trans women were (probably) born with male junk, that they're inescapably men, and ergo not to be trusted. She's a misandrist - and she can mostly keep that under wraps, but fails utterly when she gets into her "wolf in sheep's clothing" mindset.
It's a difficult argument to make in public, though. The thing is, that violence against women by men is very real - and very prolific. So, her hatred is grounded in a lived reality.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 09 April, 2024, 05:51:21 PMI find it easier to navigate this argument when I think of the current debate around trans identity being played out noisily in the media. [snip for brevity!] The thing is, that violence against women by men is very real - and very prolific. So, her hatred is grounded in a lived reality.
Again I agree, although I don't really have an opinion on JKR as I've spent almost zero time reading about the matter and I don't think I can judge anything based on the murmurings drifting in on the wind on the rare occasions that I have the metaphorical window open.
But regarding your last paragraph, what usually gets overlooked (switching from racism to your violence-against-women illustration for a moment) is that, whilst it's true that the vast majority of violence against women is conducted by men, and it's also true that the vast majority of violence against men is conducted by men, and that the amount of violence against women outweighs that of violence against men (hope you're keeping up with this!), it's
not true to say that "men are the problem". The problem must be something else because not all men exhibit violence against women or men. You might as well say that in the matter of terrorism, the problem is "Muslims" (equally untrue).
To couch this in a black/white illustration again, it's true that white people have perpetrated injustices of many kinds against black people, but to say that
only white people have done this is untrue, and to say that
all white people have done this is equally untrue. If you identify the problem as "white people" then you've misidentified the problem. Any plan to deal with it is going to be misdirected, and be ineffective at best, and at worst cause a good deal more harm.
I wish people would identify the issue correctly before harm is done by shooting the wrong target.
Well, yes. I hope it was clear from my post upthread that I'm not anti-farmer. Nor do I believe that all farmers think in a uniform manner. Or that they're all white. Or that the white ones are all supremacists.
There is something that makes *most* folk in large cities in the US not vote for Trump. And there is something that makes *most* folk in rural areas in the US vote for Trump.
I think it's probably mostly to do with a) the concerns that Trump addresses, and his non-politician origins, are in sync with rural dwellers and their sympathies. And that the population is more dispersed. In cities there are more interactions with others, and those interactions are more significant to an individual's own life. More opportunity to fall into a clique, and less room to defy the mainstream or suffer ostracisation (which is more of a nightmare for a close community). So if it becomes "trendy" (pardon the sledgehammer of a term) to think one way, thinking another way comes at a price. Doesn't happen so much in the rural areas.
Also, the things that Trump doesn't seem to give a poo about (social care and other typically left issues) are more important in a densely populated area.
Quote from: Fortnight on 09 April, 2024, 06:31:54 PMless room to defy the mainstream or suffer ostracisation
I think that's a really interesting observation, because I'd make the same argument in reverse. Like, people who live on a farm in the countryside have literally said to me "we don't really have transgenderism here - it's a country farming community".
It feels like it's way more dangerous to pop your head above the parapet and say "I'm different" in a rural community. There's nowhere to hide, and people are set in their ways.
(The high school I attended didn't have open gayness. That's because open gayness was unsafe, not because nobody was gay.)
Good point. It's not as if it's a clear cut issue of always-this-way-in-the-country and always-that-way-in-the-city. Obviously both are types of community and all communities are vulnerable to the same types of upset. The degree & proportions vary, is all. I think that the trend is enough to cause a geographical separation of left & right. And then, of course, people migrate to where they'll feel they belong. Naturally there are other considerations to within-borders movements (finances being one), but, again, the trend is probably enough to shift red & blue further apart.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 09 April, 2024, 06:38:22 PM(The high school I attended didn't have open gayness. That's because open gayness was unsafe, not because nobody was gay.)
Same here. Funnily enough, not 5 minutes I was messaging an old friend from primary school. When we were about ten he told me to put my hand on my hip with one hand then pretend to bounce a tennis ball with the other, before telling our peers to 'look at the gay boy'. I had no idea what he meant.
He's happily married to another man these days. How far we've come.
Sorry, a bit off topic, and more about growing up in the 80s than growing up in the countryside, though I did both.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 09 April, 2024, 10:19:28 PMHe's happily married to another man these days. How far we've come.
For all the gloom I feel about the future, when I talk to my friends' teenage kids, the fact that they're so fantastically relaxed about their friends who are trans, non-binary, gay or bi, genuinely gives me hope. I honestly want to see them take over the planet, and I'd quite like to see what they make of it.
I've noticed that as well, Jim, about the younger generation. Mini-Solo is non-binary, as it happens.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 09 April, 2024, 10:52:00 PMI've noticed that as well, Jim, about the younger generation. Mini-Solo is non-binary, as it happens.
It's their turn. We've fucked the planet, but it
might not be too late. Let's turn it over to them — they can't make a worse job then we have. Time to go full workerati on the place, IMO. 🙂
I've reached an age where some of my peers are banging on about how 'soft' the younger generation are, as if our generation had to endure the trenches or the Blitz rather than play Nintendo games and watch Bullseye.
It's the equivalent of my parents' generation saying "we worked hard so you could have an easier life than we had", and the next day "bloody kids have it so easy these days".
It'll be the same for the generation after us. They'll inherit the Earth regardless of what we do, so as long as enough of them are better than us, that's what counts...
Humans don't inherit the Earth, the Earth inherits the humans.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 09 April, 2024, 10:44:13 PMFor all the gloom I feel about the future, when I talk to my friends' teenage kids, the fact that they're so fantastically relaxed about their friends who are trans, non-binary, gay or bi, genuinely gives me hope. I honestly want to see them take over the planet, and I'd quite like to see what they make of it.
Yes I find this very positive too. It helps with the increase in positive representation on the TV, with the likes of Sex Education, which is brilliant by the way. Adverts have moved on a lot too.
Croydon Dose It Again.... Hat-trick heroes: Perry and Philp set an Eye 'awards' record
Posted on January 4, 2024 by insidecroydon
It's the annual awards that no local council ever wants to feature in.
Eye, eye, eye: in all good newsagents, and some not so good, today
But this year, thanks to Tory double act Jason Perry and Chris Philp, Croydon Council has picked up no fewer than three "gongs" in Private Eye's much-anticipated Rotten Borough Awards for 2023.
Lord Gnome, the legendary proprietor of the country's best-selling fortnightly satirical magazine, has confirmed that in doing so, Croydon has set another unwanted record, as no other authority has ever managed to claim a hat-trick of Rotten Borough titles in one year.
And they also ensured another record, as this was the seventh successive year that Croydon has been nominated for one award or another. The trophy cabinet in chief exec Katherine Kerswell's office in Fisher's Folly must be groaning under the weight of all those unwanted but very well-deserved trophies.
Given the omnishambles that the previous lot in charge of Croydon Town Hall left the place ("the ultimate rotten borough", according to previous Eye reporting), Perry, ably backed up by Croydon South MP Philp, has clearly embarked on a mission of "whatever you do, we can do worse...".
First, Philp and Perry, jointly, picked up the gong for "Responsible Social Media Initiative", for the pair's on-going involvement in a Facebook group that appears to condone, at least, the millions of pounds' worth of criminal damage inflicted on ULEZ infrastructure in and around Croydon.
Pro-pollution Perry and Philp's involvement in the "Stop the ULEZ expansion to Croydon" group is, of course, a clear breach of the council's, and Parliament's, codes of conduct, breaks a handful of the Nolan Principles, and is especially awks for the MP, who just happens to be... checks notes... a government minister for policing.
What was it that Philp was saying only yesterday? "There is no excuse at all for any criminal activity." And how many instances of ULEZ vandalism has Philp reported as a result of being a member of the "Stop the ULEZ expansion to Croydon" page? That'll be zero...
Perry was only elected as Croydon Mayor in 2022, but he is already on track to surpass all the Rotten Borough gongs that even Tony Newman and his sidekick, Paul Scott, managed to accumulate during their wretched time in office.
The Eye has warded Perry the "Must Try Harder" award after he "showed the depth of his political incompetence when he tried to score points off Labour over the previous regime's disastrous Brick by Brick housing company", the magazine explained.
What was the worst thing Perry had discovered about the Brick by Brick debacle, the Mayor was asked in a typically patsy question at a Town Hall meeting.
"Finding a two-storey house without a staircase," Perry replied, only for it to emerge that no such stair-less house ever actually existed. The Mayor had been "misinformed" was Perry's excuse for lying to a Town Hall meeting.
Perry nabbed his third medal with the "Art of the Deal Award" for his part in the on-going saga over Croydon's vanished bus shelters – almost three years since the council uprooted its shelters on the promise of big bucks by a New York-based con man who was clearly never properly checked out by council officials.
Today, Tim Minogue, who edits the Rotten Boroughs page, told Inside Croydon: "Croydon council can rightly be proud that the international panel of highly respected judges was once again of the view that this authority was deserving of such recognition at Britain's most prestigious local government awards."/font]
Sort of on-topic, there was this: Mona: Court rules women's-only exhibit must allow male visitors (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-68770187)
TL/DR - Feminist art exhibition tries to make point about historical disenfranchisement by excluding men. Man sues and wins right of access.
Linguist's corner: article contains word "contumelious".
Quote from: Funt Solo on 10 April, 2024, 10:28:06 PMLinguist's corner: article contains word "contumelious".
My new favourite word (after obstreperous)
I quit Twitter last year, partly because the constant doomscrolling was doing me no good, but mainly because I noticed that the 'Trending' section was increasingly pushing right-wing content and talking points at me, in a manner that simply couldn't be based on algorithmic analysis of my own useage of the platform.*
It seemed very obvious to me that, under Musk, the platform was being used to advance an agenda that I simply couldn't support or be passively complicit in.
Well, it certainly hasn't got any better since I left. This, from NBC:
Verified pro-Nazi X accounts flourish under Elon Musk (https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/x-twitter-elon-musk-nazi-extremist-white-nationalist-accounts-rcna145020)
We're far beyond "freedom of speech" and "hearing both sides". If you're still using Twitter/X, I'd urge you to reconsider.
*Mostly comic stuff, occasional frothing lefty rants. :D
I just wrote out a long post about TwiXter and what it seems to be doing but the internet ate it and I can't be bothered typing it all out again.
Lucky you.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 18 April, 2024, 10:41:44 AMLucky you.
:)
I should probably have mentioned in the original post, for those that don't want/can't be bothered to click through to the link, that NBC isn't using "neo-Nazi" in the colloquial sense of "a bit more right wing than I am personally comfortable with" — they mean actual, proper, "Hitler was right" neo-Nazis. They're talking about accounts that specifically promote
actual Nazi ideology. They didn't include accounts that shared this sort of material but didn't explicitly endorse it (the "Hey, I'm just asking questions" type), nor general-purpose antisemitism/racism. This is 150 blue-ticked accounts with followers often in the hundreds of thousands literally praising and advocating Third-Reich-style Nazism.
Darn it - now I have to do it again :lol:
Basically, I see what Jim sees. But why are we seeing this? Is it just mismanagement of the platform? Do Nazis have some form of generic anti-censorship software? Is TwiXter a Nazi entity? Just what is going on here?
You wanna know what I think? [YES - GO TO 01] [NO - EXIT]
01: TwiXter is currently allowing a lot of questionable content, from the Nazi content Jim mentions to truly disgusting comments from government sanctioned Israeli TweeXters glorifying, inviting, justifying, mocking and even denying the Gaza genocide.
What is more interesting is the content being suppressed or outright banned. No matter what one thinks, where is the logic in allowing fascism while simultaneously shadow-banning anti-zionist content? Why allow Eylon Levy to TweeX zionist propaganda and not allow Ryan Christian to TweeX links to factual official sources? Why are all the bad things that are properly bad promoted and the bad things that are narratively bad suppressed?
It's almost as if TwiXter was a mechanism for herding public opinion. But why herd the public mind towards inherently repulsive ideologies? Here's a thought - regulation. Where there's regulation, there's money (taxes, licenses, permits, fines, etc.), and where there's regulation, there's perceived legitimacy, cementation into the state (which provides legal and physical protection as well as tax deals and subsidies). A regulated industry is the Gold Standard of business (petrochemicals, pharmaceuticals, banking, etc.).
So TwiXter allows all this vile content for ordinary people to get upset about whilst simultaneously shadow-banning content it doesn't want people to get upset about. Next come the regulators with all their restrictions for us and rewards for TwiXter to defeat this evil menace and make the web safe for us all - but will purposely throw out the baby with the bathwater. Censorship in the name of freedom of speech.
That's what I think TwiXter either is or is becoming.
To bastardise Martin Niemöller;
First they came for the Search Engines, and I did not speak out because I wasn't an academic.
Then they came for the videos, and I did not speak out because I didn't have a Youtube channel.
Then they came for the tweets, and I did not speak out because I wasn't on Twitter.
Then they came for the podcasts, and I did not speak out because I don't have a podcast.
Then they came for my emails, and there was no one left to speak out for me.
EXIT
I find Xitter still useful, but then I don't use it like most seem to. I almost never look at what's trending and I don't use the "For you" 'cos it's full of crap.
I follow a few dozen journalists, politicians and "experts" just for regional/military news - and that's it. If I want to know what is happening in Azerbaijan - Sudan - Myanmar - Eastern Europe or wherever, then I have a few locals just for that. Seems to work quite well as long as you avoid the replies. :o
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 23 March, 2024, 06:25:24 PM'little men running along shelves' \
Not far off the term "Platformers"
Yes, TwiXter is still useful. I didn't mean to condemn the whole thing because of one part of it. Sorry if I gave that impression.
I use it for the same reason as Lorenzo, except that for me it's musicians and record labels who I follow. I resent having to use it just to keep up with their releases, I wish they'd find something else to use, and I'm very happy to condemn it. Facebook too.
I'm not on TwiXter myself but sometimes my lines of inquiry run through it, or into it.
Easy for me - I never used Twatter anyway. Elon Musk is a right specimen. My only solace: he too will die one day.
I signed up years ago but I think I've only twat* 4 or 5 times. No intention of ever doing so again.
*Past participle of tweet, according to both Viz and Stewart Lee.
Been pretty much completely socials free for about 3 years now, save for keeping FB on life support because the messenger app on desktop is damn useful.
Not saying everyone needs to do so but I saw a marked improvement in my mental health and temperament after a while of doing so.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 09 April, 2024, 06:38:22 PMQuote from: Fortnight on 09 April, 2024, 06:31:54 PMless room to defy the mainstream or suffer ostracisation
I think that's a really interesting observation, because I'd make the same argument in reverse. Like, people who live on a farm in the countryside have literally said to me "we don't really have transgenderism here - it's a country farming community".
It feels like it's way more dangerous to pop your head above the parapet and say "I'm different" in a rural community. There's nowhere to hide, and people are set in their ways.
All of which is a reason that Smalltown Boy was written.
+++BREAKING+++
Despite not being posted in since May '23, the Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'? (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46939.0) thread has just been locked.
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 19 April, 2024, 12:38:18 PMDespite not being posted in since May '23, the Thought Police: Are we allowed to query 'woke'? (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=46939.0) thread has just been locked.
There may have been a change in the back-end code somewhere — it's not at all uncommon for forums of all kinds to lock inactive threads after a certain period of time. If more old/defunct threads start getting locked, we can probably infer that that's what this is, rather than some sinister thought-policing.
Well, maybe, but if it's just a routine locking of inactive threads how are we to explain this (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?board=15.6000)?
Has the site been hacked by liberal extremists? Is Rebellion trying to distance itself from dissenting voices? Did Burt spill oil into Tharg's website-o-tron? Thrill-suckers? Gremlins? A random glitch?
I'm not saying there's any underhandedness going on here, because I don't know what's going on, but I am intrigued as to why this suddenly happened for no apparent reason.
Maybe Glinner and Growling are lawyering up, buoyed by their recent culture war victories and looking to sue Rebellion?
Haven't you been reading your Damage Report? Its all explained there.
Self-immolation for the worship of a weirdo conman without a single redeeming feature. What the hell is going on?
https://www.thejournal.ie/man-sets-himself-on-fire-trump-6359959-Apr2024/ (https://www.thejournal.ie/man-sets-himself-on-fire-trump-6359959-Apr2024/)
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 20 April, 2024, 10:37:41 AMSelf-immolation for the worship of a weirdo conman without a single redeeming feature. What the hell is going on?
https://www.thejournal.ie/man-sets-himself-on-fire-trump-6359959-Apr2024/ (https://www.thejournal.ie/man-sets-himself-on-fire-trump-6359959-Apr2024/)
It seems like he was just a sadly deluded individual (an avid conspiracy theorist) - and not a Trump supporter. There's a photo on the Beeb of him holding up a sign the day before he immolated himself. His sign reads "Trump is with Biden and they're about to fascist coup us".
He was a registered Democrat, self-described "investigative researcher"*, and enjoyed a smorgasbord of current conspiracy tropes under the general umbrella of the Great Reset [wikipedia] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Reset#Conspiracy_theories).
*What avid conspiracy theorists describe themselves as, these days, in an attempt to give credence to their wild fancies.
My mistake - cheers for correcting me. Really should have got my facts straight before posting