Dredd (2012)

[QuickQuag]

Bechdel sounds extremely flawed though... I mean a movie could pass the test by having two women discuss their hair and makeup, something which I'm pretty sure has been done at least a few times for the comedic value of the female stereotype.

But...isn't that the plot of Catwoman? 

Outside of this, as others have mentioned, women are shown not just in strong lights in Dredd, but in a VARIETY of lights.  As a women pointed out to me recently, the success of women's lib is not that women can be strong, or perform alongside men in what may previously have been a male arena, but that they have the CHOICE to do so.

This CHOICE is beautifully illustrated in the film:
A mother
A cop
A Chief Judge
A drug lord

There may be more, but those spring immediately to mind. 

How many other films in this genre have shown this same regard?  Or how many other films of any kind?

Those are four beautiful examples, I reckon. You could also say that Kay arguably offers another [dramatic] option - that of an antagonist who isn't defined by her sex or sexuality... maybe. Possibly setting her up against Anderson is a grey area, but then the outcome isn't a hair pulling catfight for the lads, either.

To my mind on the screen and when it's done well in the comics, MC-1's justice system is a postfeminist one; the last SF movie I heard that applied to was Alien.

[*Disclaimer: I don't get out much!]

[Modern Panther]

Just occurred to me - how many times in Dredd do two named male characters discuss something other than a women?

Dredd's conversations with male characters are mainly (or entirely) about Mama or Anderson.  The gangmember's conversations are the same.

[TordelBack]

The Tempunaut Test is born.

[IndigoPrime]

On the catfight front, another thought: Judge Dredd had that risible scrap between Hershey and Dr. Hayden. The contrast is rather clear with the equivalent set-up in Dredd, and [spoiler]Anderson methodically dispensing with Kaplan[/spoiler].

[Eric Plumrose]

My understanding of the Bechdel test is that one woman is conversing with another, and what they are talking about is another woman.

Not even that strict - just be talking about anything other than a man.

I think too many people miss this point. A film doesn't automatically fail if two women talk about a man. It fails if that's pretty much all they talk about. But as TordelBack says, it's taken far more seriously than Bechdel intended so to criticize her for other people's application of it is a tad unfair.

[Richmond Clements]

My understanding of the Bechdel test is that one woman is conversing with another, and what they are talking about is another woman.

Not even that strict - just be talking about anything other than a man.

I think too many people miss this point. A film doesn't automatically fail if two women talk about a man. It fails if that's pretty much all they talk about. But as TordelBack says, it's taken far more seriously than Bechdel intended so to criticize her for other people's application of it is a tad unfair.

Yup, it is a good guideline or starting point but is not the be all and end all. Pacific Rim, for example, fails it miserably, but has one of the strongest female characters you'll ever see.

[IndigoPrime]

She saves the film in hat regard, but that film's gender balance isn't great, from the main characters right through to the crowd scenes.

On Bechdel criteria, the rules are:

- The film has to have at least two women in it, who talk to each other about something other than a man
- The characters should be named.

The second of those isn't always used. The fact tons of modern films fail the first of those tests is pretty depressing. So, again, a win for Dredd!

[Theblazeuk]

Who is the strong female character in Pacific Rim?

[vzzbux]

These tests are just extra ways to critisize movies. I don't really care who is talking to who about whom. If a movie is great these factors will not detract my opinion.





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[TordelBack]

I don't think it's meant to criticise the movies as entertainment or even as successful works of craft/art, just a handy way of showing that women as people in their own right, with thoughts and objectives and relationships other than those with men, basically don't exist in mainstream cinema.  Movies are about 50% of the population, the other half only matter in terms of how they relate to the first half.  And while that might not be terribly surprising, the crowd-scene statistic surely is an eye-opener. 

The importance of all this isn't actually related to how 'good' or 'bad' a movie is, it's more about how one major strand of culture consistently represents women (effectively as a minor adjunct to or motivation for men), to men and to women and to kids, and how that must feed into how we all relate to each other.

[James Stacey]

Who is the strong female character in Pacific Rim?

[Theblazeuk]

Correct answer.

[IndigoPrime]

I don't think it's meant to criticise the movies as entertainment or even as successful works of craft/art, just a handy way of showing that women as people in their own right, with thoughts and objectives and relationships other than those with men, basically don't exist in mainstream cinema.  Movies are about 50% of the population, the other half only matter in terms of how they relate to the first half.  And while that might not be terribly surprising, the crowd-scene statistic surely is an eye-opener. 

The importance of all this isn't actually related to how 'good' or 'bad' a movie is, it's more about how one major strand of culture consistently represents women (effectively as a minor adjunct to or motivation for men), to men and to women and to kids, and how that must feed into how we all relate to each other.

Exactly. The movie industry right now effectively presents 'male' as the default and 'female' as 'other', very often as a token inclusion. This is so endemic and systematic that we now often congratulate producers who add a 'strong female character' when there may be *several* male equivalents in the same film.

Frankly, I thought Geena Davis totally nailed this last year.

[Bat King]

And the 'strong' is almost always wrong... Strong doesn't have to mean fiesty independent woman going 'Roar'.

[vzzbux]

Soooooo..
Any news on DREDD II 'The search for Drokk' yet.





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