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Star Wars Episode IX

Started by JOE SOAP, 10 July, 2018, 01:50:53 AM

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Mardroid

Quote from: Mister Pops on 05 August, 2018, 01:10:43 PM
Quote from: Mardroid on 04 August, 2018, 03:37:26 PM
...in a way that makes sense to the story.


J.J Abrams is making this movie

Well I'd say he's got as more good stuff than bad under his belt but granted, I'm not sure long term story planning is his strong suit. I usually find his output interesting, although I might be scratching my head afterwards.

broodblik

Let's see how JJ second stint goes. I preferred his take than Johnson take on the story
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

Definitely Not Mister Pops

Quote from: Mardroid on 05 August, 2018, 01:28:02 PM
Quote from: Mister Pops on 05 August, 2018, 01:10:43 PM
Quote from: Mardroid on 04 August, 2018, 03:37:26 PM
...in a way that makes sense to the story.


J.J Abrams is making this movie

Well I'd say he's got as more good stuff than bad under his belt but granted, I'm not sure long term story planning is his strong suit. I usually find his output interesting, although I might be scratching my head afterwards.

He can put a buncha likeable characters with great chemistry up on screen, but their motivations are often baffling. Like why is Spock (SPOCK!) trying to cave in Blunderbus Cattletraps face with his bare fists? It's not entirely his fault, it seems like he just directs whatever is in the script he's given. Scripts that mostly seem to be written by Kurtzmann and Orci, a pair whose continual employment on high profile projects is almost as confounding as one of their screenplays.
You may quote me on that.

Mardroid

#123
Quote from: broodblik on 05 August, 2018, 01:35:02 PM
Let's see how JJ second stint goes.

I agree.

QuoteI preferred his take than Johnson take on the story

I enjoyed both of the sequel films, although I found the galactic geography* and the political nature** of the universe a bit confusing in The Force Awakens.

And having recently rewatched The Last Jedi on blu-ray, I think it's a really good film. I have mixed feelings concerning [spoiler] Luke's death,[/spoiler] but I think it held up very well as a whole. I do understand why many didn't like it, which largely seems to bog down to it not fulfilling fans plot-expectations but I'd argue that might not be bad thing.

I'd even see Finn and cos' excursion [spoiler]as not being a waste of time (something brought up a lot as to 'why tLJ is a bad film) despite they're mission ultimately failing. Plots not going to plan is a staple of good story telling, and they did a good thing in breaking up that casino and giving hope to the slaves there, and setting free those beasts. (A great creature design, by the way.) One of the main messages of this film is to rekindle hope, and indeed, The Rebellion.[/spoiler]

The level of vitriol on the internet in response to tLJ is shocking though. Or maybe not, considering it's the internet. Not so much here, where discussion is largely civilised.

*A contradiction, in terms, I'm aware, since geography pertains to a specific world. I'm referring to the position of the planets considering [spoiler]the destruction of Republic worlds were viewable from the characters' current position. Maybe the super-superlaser opens wormholes or some such, and we're seeing through them?[/spoiler]  'Astronomy' might have been a better term here, but that's not quite right either as that's more a study of the cosmos rather than the location of planets in relation to each other... although that's part of it.

** Tordelback and other's explanation did ease my confusion, but I think it would have been simpler to just have the resistance ships as republic craft, if they're not going to provide an explanation in the film. The idea that the Republic are reluctant to take action against the First Order, or at least don't want to be seen to be, does make sense of the resistance shenanigans. Maybe they left out the lengthier explanation so the film didn't get bogged down with political waffle (although an extra line in the scrolling intro-text would have sufficed for that) but then they could have just made the republic a bit more militant.

Professor Bear

Quote from: Mardroid on 05 August, 2018, 02:14:48 PMThe level of vitriol on the internet in response to tLJ is shocking though. Or maybe not, considering it's the internet. Not so much here, where discussion is largely civilised.

Movie companies deliberately engineer the visibility of outrageous and vitriolic responses to their movies now because there's no downside: their movie gets promoted and the movie's critics are tarred as unreasonable manbabies - I mean, sure the odd actor gets chased off the internet by racists who want to kill and rape them, but that's not Disney's problem.

Quote from: Mister Pops on 05 August, 2018, 02:02:43 PMLike why is Spock (SPOCK!) trying to cave in Blunderbus Cattletraps face with his bare fists?

Spock wants REVENNNNNNNGE, of course - like everyone else in JJA's Trek movies.  It's so bad that when Kirk wasn't motivated by revenge, his arc was that he didn't know what to do with himself - so he ended up fighting someone who wanted revenge.

My problem with JJA doing Episode 9 is that so much of Episode 8 was a deliberate reaction to and rejection of what JJA did in Episode 7 and I don't think JJA has the creative self-awareness to follow up on it.  I suspect that Episode 9 will be the disappointment of a generation, so I expect Disney to push hard on the idea that its critics are a hive mind of anti-progressives.

SIP

#125
I think the statement that episode 8 is a deliberate reaction and rejection to everything done in episode 7 says it all about the whole sorry Star Wars mess. What company allows a franchise "Part 2" film to be made that is perceived to be a complete rejection of its own  "Part 1"?

Surely anyone can see that's not a positive thing.

It was stated up thread that most people who don't like episode 8, don't like it because it effectively didn't fulfil the expectation that "we" had. Not the case at all. This also seems to be a mainstay of the pro-episode 8 team. That the rest of us had some preconceived notion of luke and how it should all play out.  Not so. I didn't like it because I thought it was poorly written , poorly paced, with dull character arcs and storyline. It also completely misfires on its main characters. I had no expectations other than  hoping that it would be a good film. I didn't think it was. It's as straight forward as that.

Most people that I talk to who do not like episode 8 do not belong to  this strange "I want super luke kicking ass" faction that is constantly brought up. But most Last Jedi fans appear to think that you need to be in that minority group if for some unknown reason you don't like the film. I can accept plenty of people like it, others need to accept that plenty of balanced, reasonable and intelligent people also really do not like it .

I'm sure you'll all be happy to hear that I'm feeling a lot more zen about last jedi.....I've turned over a new leaf and have now decided to stop letting it ruin each day that it gets mentioned.  ;)

TordelBack

Quote from: Professor Bear on 05 August, 2018, 02:33:39 PM
My problem with JJA doing Episode 9 is that so much of Episode 8 was a deliberate reaction to and rejection of what JJA did in Episode 7 and I don't think JJA has the creative self-awareness to follow up on it.

I think it's a bit unlikely that Lucasfilm and/or Disney haven't insisted on the two lads working together since Treverrow departed, or indeed didn't think about it between VII and VIII (regardless of what Abrams and Johnson might say about their creative freedom), especially given the chopping and changing over of directors over the last few years.  I also don't see TLJ as a rejection of TFA, so much as a very clever continuation.

My main worry about IX, apart from the pressure for dull conservative fan-service, is that Abrams is definitely the man you want to start up a series, but far less so the man you'd ask to finish one.  Maybe Ron Howard will step in!

The Legendary Shark


Just so long as things explode. I love it when things explode, especially big things.

[move]~~~^~~~~~~~[/move]




SIP

Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 05 August, 2018, 09:16:25 PM

Just so long as things explode. I love it when things explode, especially big things.

Fingers crossed for a big space station with a super laser.

TordelBack

Quote from: SIP on 05 August, 2018, 09:21:14 PM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 05 August, 2018, 09:16:25 PM

Just so long as things explode. I love it when things explode, especially big things.

Fingers crossed for a big space station with a super laser.

Biggest surprise possible for IX would be that there isn't one!  Or that if there is, Rose builds it for  the Resistance: "That's how we are going to win. Not fighting what we hate, but but blowing it up with a ruddy big superlaser. Of love".

JOE SOAP

#130
I can only assume those who feel The Last Jedi is a rejection of the main points of The Force Awakens expected other resolutions to what was presented to them; but to me it resolved those key things in ways that were both revealing and have the of course factor i.e. it didn't contradict but stayed true to the Luke hinted at in Han's words: "...one boy, an apprentice, turned against him and destroyed it all. Luke felt responsible. He just...walked away from everything." and gave an answer as to why this would be the case for someone who decided to just up and run away several years ago.
Kylo carried out his vow: "Show me... Grandfather... and I will finish... what you started." by killing his master; and Rey, revealed as not having a familial connection to anyone, was given some much needed depth and relatability which the Skywalker factor can hinder.

The Last Jedi has other issues but it met the key questions head on.

Steve Green

Quote from: TordelBack on 05 August, 2018, 09:34:09 PM
Quote from: SIP on 05 August, 2018, 09:21:14 PM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 05 August, 2018, 09:16:25 PM

Just so long as things explode. I love it when things explode, especially big things.

Fingers crossed for a big space station with a super laser.

Biggest surprise possible for IX would be that there isn't one!  Or that if there is, Rose builds it for  the Resistance: "That's how we are going to win. Not fighting what we hate, but but blowing it up with a ruddy big superlaser. Of love".

Rose becomes Saddam Hussein in Big Dave? Bold move.

JOE SOAP

Quote from: TordelBack on 05 August, 2018, 09:34:09 PM
Biggest surprise possible for IX would be that there isn't one!  Or that if there is, Rose builds it for  the Resistance: "That's how we are going to win. Not fighting what we hate, but but blowing it up with a ruddy big superlaser. Of love".

I was expecting the Resistance to do that by capturing Starkiller base but my expectations were 'subverted'.


Professor Bear

#133
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 05 August, 2018, 09:41:03 PM
I can only assume those who feel The Last Jedi is a rejection of the main points of The Force Awakens expected other resolutions to what was presented to them

I obviously can't speak for others, but as the person who brought this up on the thread, I personally meant the allusions to historical/heroic cycles, the perpetuation of failed systems, and enabling never ending conflict in which the tropes of Star Wars are central.  TLJ's assertion that the Jedi are stuck in some kind of storytelling Groundhog Day really only works in the context of commentary on TFA, because there were no cycles of failure across two trilogies of movies (OT and PT) as one was simply calling back to the other - where they became unhelpful tropes was when TFA went to the same well unironically, something for which it was both lambasted and praised.  In other words, twice is just coincidence, but three times is a cycle, and that brings the focus back to TFA and how TLJ's characters must reject what it enshrines.
I suppose the best example is Rey's parentage: in the context of the fiction, the revelation that Rey's parents were nobodies is unimportant and what is significant for her emotionally is that they were never coming back for her, but that's not what the fans, the discussion of the film, or even the film itself prioritises - Rey's reaction is to the debunking of the fan theory that she had a famous sire, which I feel compelled to point out technically wasn't even in TFA unless you take a very literal meaning of Maz Kanata's deliberately cryptic comments about laser swords finding their way around.*

Understand, none of this is to suggest that in acknowledging or rejecting elements of its predecessor The Last Jedi is passing judgement on The Force Awakens so much as that Rian Johnson was running with the ball he'd been passed.  TLJ still works if you want it to.


* The assumption being that Anakin's lightsaber found its way to Rey because it was hers by lineage, rather than finding its way to her in order to bring her to Luke.

Magnetica

Quote from: Mardroid on 05 August, 2018, 01:28:02 PM
I usually find his output interesting, although I might be scratching my head afterwards.

Sounds like a fair summary of Lost.