Round 5 was always going to be a quickie and in two weeks we are done. I'm thinking maybe next round we'll go to one a day to give us more time to luxuriate (or for me to prep whatever's next if I'm honest, not had to think about that for some time!) Anyway not much else to say except a week of more bastard hard choices!
Over in the 'FAV THRILL ROUND 4 ROUND-UP' thread we had the following posts
Quote from: BPP on 31 July, 2022, 01:05:52 PM
One thrill more popular with others than me that I think could well take out something like ABC or Rogue is Kingdom. That beast is hugely popular.
Quote from: AlexF on 01 August, 2022, 10:32:27 AM
...Still, gonna be quite a challenge for even Rogue Trooper to make it through Round 5!
Little did they know the answer was coming in Heat 13!
Kingdom: Carver Hale; Proteus Vex; DreadNoughts
Rogue Trooper: Harlem Heroes (Reboot); Time Twisters; Cradlegrave
Kingdom - more info (http://2000ad.org/?zone=thrill&page=profiles&choice=KINGDOM)
VS
Rogue Trooper (Rogue) - more info (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=thrill&page=profiles&Comic=2000AD&choice=ROGUE)
Just reply in this thread naming your favourite thrill of these two series at the beginning of your post (or use Bold tags so I can spot it easily) and say what you like about these wonderful stories after that.
Match ends early on the morning of Saturday 13th August and the winner gets a place in Round 6 (of 9!!!).
What on Earth is ALL of this? (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48011.0)
For those that need 'um and can be bothered to follow 'um there's some simple rules (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=48011.msg1070150#msg1070150)
Any questions, just ask as ever - and have FUN!
Rogue Trooper
Kingdom. It's far more consistent than Rogue which for every great moment has some meh.
I had always previously had the impression Rogue was regarded as an A list 2000AD character, but now I'm not so sure.
I'm a big Dan Abnett, but think he has series that are even better than Kingdom.
So this is a close one. I'm going to go with Kingdom.
Rogue has its moments but for me was always the least of 2000 AD's classic characters. Kingdom took a while to click with me but swiftly became one of my favourite strips from 2000 AD's entire run. It has a classic vibe in many ways but is also modern in terms of its storytelling and art.
I'm not mad keen on Nominative determinism so
Kingdom
Kingdom.
Can Rogue's disco dancing skillz save him from Gene the Hackman's fist-blades?
Kingdom's not perfect, mind you. By the time we got into space it all got a bit gradient fill. His wife was thrown aside as so much background dressing as we jumped quickly from scenario to scenario. The end is very much an admission that it could just go on and on.
But those are all the worst bits. Rogue has a longer list of those, and the episodic nature means a modern view of it is usually negative.Tis dated, so it is. Tonally awkward. But with great art.
Kingdom
Quote from: Funt Solo on 10 August, 2022, 08:31:42 AM
Kingdom's .... The end is very much an admission that it could just go on and on.
Tharg has said its coming back. I guess its just a schedule issue as to when with both very busy. That said if that was the end it'd do as it worked fine, just would love to see more Kingdom.
Abnett is good at ambiguous endings, isn't he? Like that time he finished Sinister Dexter.
IP sums it up nicely in that Kingdom has the feel of a classic strip but done in a modern style. When it's good Rogue was superb, but that doesn't happen often enough to make it the better thrill here for me. Another vote for Kingdom
Kingdom
Rogue Trooper (Rogue)
There's a lot to like about Rogue Trooper, but oh dear lord is it inconsistent - and that's during the GFD era, too, never mind the latter Hit-era stuff. Kingdom is by far and away the strip I'd rather read on any given day.
Quote from: Aaron A Aardvark on 10 August, 2022, 08:07:34 AM
I'm not mad keen on Nominative determinism so
Kingdom
'Nominative determinism' as in, your main character is called Gene the Hackman and he has giant blades that slide out of his wrists so he can hack away at people? Or Old Man Gary who is old? Or Clara Bow who is good with archery? Jack so Wild who is a loose cannon? ;) :D
Frankly, the nominative determinism of it all is one of a few things that, to me, Kingdom has borrowed from Rogue Trooper. Not saying it's derivative, as Kingdom is totally it's own thing, but I DO think these two thrills are really rather comparable: they're basically both stories of noble loners (who are always accompanied by companions), who wander around a war-torn hellscape and use their extreme fighting skills to solve problems, until those don't work and they need help. They were also both much better in the early stories - before Rogue found his nemesis, and before Gene ended up in space with the surviving (mostly evil) humans. At least Gene isn't constantly betrayed by a series of beautiful women. That only happens to him
sometimes.
I confess I'm rather excited that new thrill Kingdom looks set to beat Rogue here, but as someone who ignored Rogue for years as a very young reader, but then fell in love with the character as a teen, on finding the old Titan volume 1 collection, my votes going to
Rogue Trooper. And never mind the boring later Rogue stories. But also DO bear in mind the much later, really rather excellent Rennie run.
(or maybe it's that I still feel guilty about basically stealing the Rogue Trooper idea for a 'creative writing' homework at school once that I got a pretty good mark for)
I don't think the blades slide out of Gene's wrists. Doesn't he carry them on his back?
Rogue Trooper.
Cheers
Kingdom is pretty much my favourite strip since I came back to the prog in 2017. In fact, it was the cliff-hanger to the Kingdom episode in prog 2016, the first one I bought in 27 years, that persuaded me more than anything to buy the next one.
Thinking back to Rogue Trooper, it's a bit like Slaine in that it was only really the very early instalments that I massively enjoyed.
So while I'm grateful to Rogue Trooper for allowing Gordon Rennie to flesh out the world of Jaegir, the winner here is Kingdom.
Much as I love classic Rogue (before he killed the traitor general), I have found Kingdom to be much more enjoyable.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 10 August, 2022, 08:40:40 AM
Abnett is good at ambiguous endings, isn't he? Like that time he finished Sinister Dexter.
Which particular time....?!
Kingdom. The overall plot and backstory is a little confusing but the execution is magnificent, and I always look forward to it. I feel I ought to like Rogue more than I do, as it's managed to somehow assume 'classic' status.
Quote from: Southstreeter on 10 August, 2022, 12:56:35 PM
I feel I ought to like Rogue more than I do, as it's managed to somehow assume 'classic' status.
Being an almost ever present strip for around 200 Progs, in what is often described as the classic era, tends to lead to that sort of classification, I guess.
Quote from: Aaron A Aardvark on 10 August, 2022, 08:07:34 AM
I'm not mad keen on Nominative determinism
This from the man who changed his name to be first in the phone book!
This one is a toughie, as Kingdom is my favourite of the more recent thrills, while Rogue is definitely one of my very favourite, possibly most favourite, old school thrills.
Rogue Trooper. Especially when Cam Kennedy was on it. His pens were full of write.*
* Yeah, doesn't quite work given he's an artist but we can't all be Marlon Shakespeare.
Quote from: Funt Solo on 10 August, 2022, 08:40:40 AM
Abnett is good at ambiguous endings, isn't he?
Nothing as good as an ending that works equally well on land and in the water, I find...
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 10 August, 2022, 02:41:59 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 10 August, 2022, 08:40:40 AM
Abnett is good at ambiguous endings, isn't he?
Nothing as good as an ending that works equally well on land and in the water, I find...
Still waiting for Rogue Sailor.
Nort scum marines! Dispense anti-pun grenades!
Iff it was early rogue trooper it would be a no brainier but as an overall arc going with kingdom
Quote from: Funt Solo on 10 August, 2022, 06:05:57 PM
Nort scum marines! Dispense anti-pun grenades!
'Close the curtains, Geoffrey, I'm ambiguous!"
I have a lot of love for Rogue...but Kingdom is the series that I'll re-read more often and the series I want more of.
Kingdom, all day every day.
SBT
For Gibbons/Kennedy/Ortiz trio and add a slice of Ewins/Wilson so Rogue it is. Kingdom's weak "lazy" ending just messed the whole series. So Dan bring it back and give us a proper ending, it is an awesome series
Mr Campbell, are you perchance getting ambiguous mixed up with amphibious? Or am I missing a joke somewhere..?
I like Rogue, despite some silliness (Colonel Kovert...). It tends to look great and I still think the bio-chips are a wonderful creation. (as an aside I have a friend who read 2000ad as a kid and his memory was 'you were never sure if they were just voices in his head' which added an existential dimension to things that I'd never thought of. I mean, it's pretty explicit they're not just voices in his head but still, that's how he remembered it.). Also I still think the fact that Rogue is blue is really cool.
However. I'm voting Kingdom. Hope him and Leezee make a return before too long, and maybe build to a more satisfying conclusion.
No-one can accuse Rogue of any zane when the other strip is giant steroid puppies doing mad max 3/4.
Rogue every time.
Quote from: broodblik on 11 August, 2022, 07:13:20 AM
Kingdom's weak "lazy" ending just messed the whole series. So Dan bring it back and give us a proper ending, it is an awesome series
I had the impression that it wasn't
definitely the end, but the Elson droid is much in demand on both sides of the Atlantic, so Dan wanted to leave it somewhere where it
could be the end...
Quote from: AlexF on 11 August, 2022, 10:57:06 AM
Or am I missing a joke somewhere..?
A very poor attempt at humour on my part. I'm blaming the gin.
Quote from: AlexF on 11 August, 2022, 10:57:06 AM
Mr Campbell, are you perchance getting ambiguous mixed up with amphibious?
We'll have him toad away immediately. Now -
hoppit!
Quote from: Blue Cactus on 11 August, 2022, 11:35:05 AM
I like Rogue, despite some silliness (Colonel Kovert...). It tends to look great and I still think the bio-chips are a wonderful creation. (as an aside I have a friend who read 2000ad as a kid and his memory was 'you were never sure if they were just voices in his head' which added an existential dimension to things that I'd never thought of. I mean, it's pretty explicit they're not just voices in his head but still, that's how he remembered it.). Also I still think the fact that Rogue is blue is really cool.
The biochips are a hugely inventive idea, and a great way to have a solo wanderer character still have a team he could talk to. The idea that he is the only one that can breathe in the chemical soup atmosphere, making him light and unencumbered where everyone else is wrapped up (and vulnerable) in bulky suits is likewise a brilliant bit of world designing and gives Rogue a justifiable edge over his opponents. I love the design of him too. The leg panniers look great and so too him being blue with a white mohawk is just fantastic. In the computer game they made all the GIs look different, so we could tell the characters apart, but I love seeing them in the strip - absolutely identical.
Regarding the voices in his head, have you seen "Garfield minus Garfield"? The premise is that Garfield is just a cat, so he can't really have sassy thoughts. The strip erases any dialogue by the pets, revealing that Garfield's human owner Jon is just a sad and lonely man. Here are a few examples. (https://www.cbr.com/garfield-minus-garfield-comics-ranked/)
Are we going to lose one of the tentpole characters of 2000ad? A character that appears in cover montage after cover montage? Maybe there's a lot of great chat here and so a scan of votes is no real count but it looks like, pending last day votes Rogue Trooper might about to fall? I'll tell you for sure tomorrow morning.
Gene is about to do what the Norts never could.
Y'all just aren't cat people.
Kingdom.
Both are fabulous examples of the Prog at its best. It's a tough call. But only one has names its characters with puns. Plus, I use "your mouth is full of wrong" in real life.
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 12 August, 2022, 12:39:06 PM
But only one has names its characters with puns. Plus, I use "your mouth is full of wrong" in real life.
Venus Bluegenes?
Quote from: I, Cosh on 12 August, 2022, 01:23:31 PM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 12 August, 2022, 12:39:06 PM
But only one has names its characters with puns. Plus, I use "your mouth is full of wrong" in real life.
Venus Bluegenes?
Helm?
Bagman?
Gunnar?
Not to mention Rogue himself.
Quote from: Magnetica on 12 August, 2022, 02:06:15 PM
Quote from: I, Cosh on 12 August, 2022, 01:23:31 PM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 12 August, 2022, 12:39:06 PM
But only one has names its characters with puns. Plus, I use "your mouth is full of wrong" in real life.
Venus Bluegenes?
Helm?
Bagman?
Gunnar?
Not to mention Rogue himself.
This is one of those times you could use "your mouth is full of wrong" in real life
Quote from: Mister Pops on 12 August, 2022, 02:38:00 PM
Quote from: Magnetica on 12 August, 2022, 02:06:15 PM
Quote from: I, Cosh on 12 August, 2022, 01:23:31 PM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 12 August, 2022, 12:39:06 PM
But only one has names its characters with puns. Plus, I use "your mouth is full of wrong" in real life.
Venus Bluegenes?
Helm?
Bagman?
Gunnar?
Not to mention Rogue himself.
This is one of those times you could use "your mouth is full of wrong" in real life
Och, bah to you and your truthfulness.
My fingers are full of wrong?
Major Magnam - he didn't look anything like an ice cream.
Quote from: Dash Decent on 12 August, 2022, 04:24:23 PM
Major Magnam - he didn't look anything like an ice cream.
LOL
VOTING CLOSED
BPP knows the score...well not the actual score, well he might if he'd counted and discovered it was not even close in the end. Will Knigdom be the 'modern' thrill (well its 15 years old, but I guess that's relatively new in 2000ad terms) that can shake things up? On this evidence that may be the case. Or is this rather a case of Rogue being exposed as a classic thrill that hasn't really survived the test of time. Whatever the reason, or reasons the result here is clear and
Kingdom
has announced its presence as a real contender here, we'll see how far it can go in Round 6