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Conspiracy Theory Debate

Started by Funt Solo, 10 April, 2020, 07:24:20 PM

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paddykafka


radiator

Quote from: paddykafka on 03 March, 2021, 08:26:53 PM
As Conspiracy Theories go, this one leaves crazy in the rear-view mirror.

https://www.thejournal.ie/adrenochrome-dublin-anti-covid-lockdown-protest-qanon-5369654-Mar2021/

It's more widespread than you might think, sadly. My next door neighbors (nice, friendly people who recently gifted us a bottle of bourbon for helping them out on something) have a 'Q' sticker on their pickup truck. I'm fascinated with Qanon. All you really need to know about it is that its basically a way for people to express a yearning for authoritarian/fascist rule, even if they don't consciously think or understand that's what they are doing.

I suspect that the majority of Q followers' don't literally believe the things they accuse 'elites' of (ie the whole child-eating, blood-drinking demon thing). It's simply a way to 'other' and dehumanise their perceived enemies just enough to justify their own irrational belief that they all need to be rounded up and jailed or executed and a hard-right, fascist regime take control and put everything back to how it 'should' be.

This is the absolute best explanation I've heard of phenomenon: https://youtu.be/JTfhYyTuT44

Video starts with a discussion of Flat Earth theory, but then makes a hard turn into Qanon around the 38min mark.

paddykafka

Thanks, Radiator! I'll certainly check that out.

Funt Solo

Quote from: radiator on 03 March, 2021, 08:45:53 PM
This is the absolute best explanation I've heard of phenomenon: https://youtu.be/JTfhYyTuT44

Video starts with a discussion of Flat Earth theory, but then makes a hard turn into Qanon around the 38min mark.

Love that video. (Y'know, and fear approximately 50% of humanity.)
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

milstar

Straight up, I believe that conspiracies do exist, but much less than people are making it out to be. I mean, I don't think you can fool majority of global population that Earth is flat, right? To me, people who create conspiracies are those who try to make something sensible with their lives, rationalizing events around them, that don't seem instantly aligned. You hear that Epstein was a sex predator. Then, it transpires to every celebrity person. I believe however in what Alan Moore says. I'll paraphrase:"The truth is that the world is anarchic and rudderless".
Reyt, you lot. Shut up, belt up, 'n if ye can't see t' bloody exit, ye must be bloody blind.

judgeurko

Quote from: milstar on 05 March, 2021, 05:15:50 PM
Straight up, I believe that conspiracies do exist, but much less than people are making it out to be. I mean, I don't think you can fool majority of global population that Earth is flat, right? To me, people who create conspiracies are those who try to make something sensible with their lives, rationalizing events around them, that don't seem instantly aligned. You hear that Epstein was a sex predator. Then, it transpires to every celebrity person. I believe however in what Alan Moore says. I'll paraphrase:"The truth is that the world is anarchic and rudderless".
What conspiracies do you believe exist

milstar

Quote from: judgeurko on 05 March, 2021, 05:29:58 PM
Quote from: milstar on 05 March, 2021, 05:15:50 PM
Straight up, I believe that conspiracies do exist, but much less than people are making it out to be. I mean, I don't think you can fool majority of global population that Earth is flat, right? To me, people who create conspiracies are those who try to make something sensible with their lives, rationalizing events around them, that don't seem instantly aligned. You hear that Epstein was a sex predator. Then, it transpires to every celebrity person. I believe however in what Alan Moore says. I'll paraphrase:"The truth is that the world is anarchic and rudderless".
What conspiracies do you believe exist

Now that you ask me that, I'd say the conflict in Middle East is all for oil (perhaps some shadier motives) and nothing for the benefit of citizens there. I also believe that, at least in Europe, football matches (not all, but some of them) are fixed in all major leagues, because both FIFA and UEFA are deeply corrupted organizations. Also, I don't believe in official interpretation of the JFK murder. Whatever is the alternative, I don't care, but I bet there is more than a simple Lee Harvey Oswald shot. Oh and this. That HIV/AIDS virus is created in a lab. I mean, such perfect virus gotta be.
Reyt, you lot. Shut up, belt up, 'n if ye can't see t' bloody exit, ye must be bloody blind.

radiator

Quote from: milstar on 05 March, 2021, 05:15:50 PM
Straight up, I believe that conspiracies do exist, but much less than people are making it out to be. I mean, I don't think you can fool majority of global population that Earth is flat, right? To me, people who create conspiracies are those who try to make something sensible with their lives, rationalizing events around them, that don't seem instantly aligned. You hear that Epstein was a sex predator. Then, it transpires to every celebrity person. I believe however in what Alan Moore says. I'll paraphrase:"The truth is that the world is anarchic and rudderless".

...and thats the ultimate irony of conspiracy theorists, endlessly imploring everyone else to 'wake up' and see the evil cabal controlling everything, because deep down they're too scared to 'wake up' themselves and realise that the world is chaotic, no one is really in control, and everyone is just making it up as they go.

Also 100% agree that some conspiracies are real, its just that they are generally quite mundane sounding and are usually motivated by greed and/or people in power trying to cover up their own incompetence.

radiator

QuoteI'd say the conflict in Middle East is all for oil

Is this even a conspiracy theory at this point? It was clear even prior to the invasion of Iraq in 2003 that the US led coalition clearly had their own motives for getting involved in that region.

Tjm86

Quote from: milstar on 05 March, 2021, 05:45:34 PM
That HIV/AIDS virus is created in a lab. I mean, such perfect virus gotta be.

... or just a perfect example of random mutation.

judgeurko

Quote from: milstar on 05 March, 2021, 05:45:34 PM
That HIV/AIDS virus is created in a lab. I mean, such perfect virus gotta be.
Its got to be? Are you a virologist?

JayzusB.Christ

Quote from: Tjm86 on 05 March, 2021, 05:56:29 PM
Quote from: milstar on 05 March, 2021, 05:45:34 PM
That HIV/AIDS virus is created in a lab. I mean, such perfect virus gotta be.

... or just a perfect example of random mutation.

What's so 'perfect' about it anyway? Extraordinary claims, as they say, need extraordinary evidence - if you have any that definitively trumps all the evidence that it evolved naturally like every other virus then I might be halfway convinced.

I heard on a podcast once that no conspiracy theory has ever been proven to be true, though I'm prepared to stand corrected.
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"

Funt Solo

Quote from: milstar on 05 March, 2021, 05:45:34 PM
Quote from: judgeurko on 05 March, 2021, 05:29:58 PM
What conspiracies do you believe exist

Now that you ask me that, I'd say the conflict in Middle East is all for oil (perhaps some shadier motives) and nothing for the benefit of citizens there. I also believe that, at least in Europe, football matches (not all, but some of them) are fixed in all major leagues, because both FIFA and UEFA are deeply corrupted organizations. Also, I don't believe in official interpretation of the JFK murder. Whatever is the alternative, I don't care, but I bet there is more than a simple Lee Harvey Oswald shot. Oh and this. That HIV/AIDS virus is created in a lab. I mean, such perfect virus gotta be.

The low-hanging fruit of counterpoint is definitely the virus one - I don't know of any evidence that points to that conclusion.

For the JFK thing, I'd be surprised if most people didn't believe there was more to it than a lone shooter - although I think a lot of that is driven by information we're exposed to - not least in the form of a very popular movie (itself driven by rumor and wonder). But, there's strictly no evidence beyond that of the lone shooter. I struggle with this one because it's so popular I find myself falling into the fiction and wondering if it may be real. I'm only human.

I've seen stories in the news that outline definite corruption within sports organizations - so it wouldn't surprise me either to find that there's more as yet undiscovered.

And oil is definitely a motivator in foreign policy. Everyone's perturbed by the Saudi state openly murdering its critics, but nobody wants to stop dealing with them financially. See also: China's human rights record. Then look at where those plastic toys your kids are playing with were made. Oops!
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Rara Avis

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 March, 2021, 06:07:41 PM

I heard on a podcast once that no conspiracy theory has ever been proven to be true, though I'm prepared to stand corrected.

On his 1999 single "Got Your Money" American rapper and Wu Tang Clan member Ol' Dirty Bastard sang:

"I'm the O-D-B as you can see
F.B.I., don't you be watching me"

It turned out that the FBI was indeed watching him:

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2012/jan/11/fbi-wu-tang-clan-ol-dirty-bastard

Does this count?

sintec

Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 05 March, 2021, 06:07:41 PM
I heard on a podcast once that no conspiracy theory has ever been proven to be true, though I'm prepared to stand corrected.

How about the Iran-Contra affair - that was a conspiracy and most certainly happend.
Or the MKUltra experiments conducted by the CIA?