Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[Mattofthespurs]

It's a film.
And not a very good one.
It's ok.

[Mattofthespurs]

Waits...

[I, Cosh]

Saw the film last night without having seen any footage and knowing as close to nothing as possible. Have now spent an incredulous couple of hours reading through posts on this thread since the release date.

The film was clearly too long - I actually thought it was going to end after the confrontation in the throne room - but was significantly better than I expected it to be.

The Luke/Rey relationship was great. Basically any scene with Mark Hammill was gold and the I thought the climax to both his story and the subtext of letting go of the old was fantastically done.

Poe's storyline was very unexpected in making him the fuckwit responsible for losing most of the fleet. Perhaps it could have done with a bit more realisation on his part to sell it fully.

Of the new generation, Finn is the one that I could happily see excised. He contributes absolutely nothing of any worth beyond bloating the running time. Having rewatched The Force Awakens for the first time last week and found it almost completely devoid of any charm, this seems to be his specialty. I'm choosing to believe that Benicio del Toro's character is a crossover from Sicario.

Loved the penguin things.

FWIW, my girlfriend's favourite parts were: the penguin things, the Funkelfüchse (uncharacteristically pretty German translation literally means "sparkling foxes"), the quiet after the destruction of the ships, the red trails on the sand. No mention of anything related to story or characters you might notice.

g) since when did Star Wars have hyperspace jumps anyway - it was described as travelling at "light speed" before (in ANH anyway - or ok "making the jump to light speed IIRC)

Since about 23 minutes into the first film?
"Travelling through hyperspace ain't like dustin' crops, boy!"

Of course, the bigger epistemological flaw here is that Luke and his family are, of course, moisture farmers so the idea of cropdusting is unlikely to be commonplace.

[Steve Green]

I'd have to watch it again, but from what I recall...

if Poe had obeyed orders, isn't it likely the Dreadnought would have followed them through space, and destroyed the whole lot (or at least the capital ships).

Didn't his disobedience save the fleet?

[Colin YNWA]

This is a really interesting take on the film, primarily talking about watching movies in a different way. It certainly sheds a new life on the notion of the side quest and the million-to-one shot, along with the nature of what TLJ is trying to make about the ideas of rebellion and power.

The article in this link absolutely nails it for me. Spot on. Thanks for sharing.

[Dandontdare]

I'd have to watch it again, but from what I recall...

if Poe had obeyed orders, isn't it likely the Dreadnought would have followed them through space, and destroyed the whole lot (or at least the capital ships).

Didn't his disobedience save the fleet?

IIRC No - [spoiler]the fleet was destroyed anyway. The plan (that he was unaware of) was to get everyone down to the secret base in shuttles without the pursuers noticing so that they would destroy (almost) empty ships when they inevitably caught up with them. If anything, he CAUSES the massive loss of life, because his stupid side plot to find the codebreaker ends up with Del Toro revealing this plan to the FO (some people have said "if Poe didn't know, how could he reveal it", but del Toro is clearly eavesdropping in the scene where Poe finds out)[/spoiler]

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

I'd have to watch it again, but from what I recall...

if Poe had obeyed orders, isn't it likely the Dreadnought would have followed them through space, and destroyed the whole lot (or at least the capital ships).

Didn't his disobedience save the fleet?

I don't think Poe's disobedience helped at all, his plan with Finn and Rose ended with Benicio Del Toro selling out the evacuation plan.

I still dont get why the plan was so much better when we find out Laura Dern is staying behind. Wouldnt they have left the engines on in the main ship anyway? She just carried on course right? Poe thought it was suicide before, did he assume they'd shut off the engines and draw attention to the escaping ships?

[Magnetica]

This is a really interesting take on the film, primarily talking about watching movies in a different way. It certainly sheds a new life on the notion of the side quest and the million-to-one shot, along with the nature of what TLJ is trying to make about the ideas of rebellion and power.

The article in this link absolutely nails it for me. Spot on. Thanks for sharing.

Yes I also think that is a good take. The thing that I found the worst about the film was that it was too long and I blamed the casino planet sequence for that, but it's a good point - not everything the heroes do has to be successful.

On reflection and taking onboard the replies to my initial post I think I will be more well disposed to it on a 2nd viewing. Unfortunately that probably won't be until it comes out on DVD.

[Professor Bear]

The article seems a little short on objective criticism, and can't quite escape the weight of its premise being that the film's failings are actually its strengths.  Rogue One fans have been saying that for a year now and it hasn't been panning out too well.

[sheridan]

I would call it a weak Discworld novel. There's good ideas and some flashes of brilliance, but it doesn't fully land.

And just like weak Discworld novels, you can be secure in the knowledge that there will be another next year.

At least that used to be the case.

I fuckin' miss Pratchett...

Same here (I'm the one on the left).

[sheridan]

Yeah, but those were proton bombs that were fired directly down into the target, not dropped.

I'm sure Wookieepedia will soon create an online reference, if it hasn't all ready, to explain how TLJ's specific space-bombs work in the way the films never do.

Here you go

[TordelBack]

For feck's sake, there was artificial gravity in the bomber (ebidence: Paige's fall), the bombs accelerated under that gravity as normal and then proceeded at a constant velocity towards the target, as per Newton. There could be a dozen reasons that they weren't independently powered, but the most obvious ones would be that they were too volatile  (one lucky hit took out almost the entire squadron), and that there were about 1,000 of them per ship  (cost).

Anyway, had a second viewing today, in glorious IMAX, and I'm happy to say it is now by far my favourite SW film since 1983. Flaws abound, no question, but such heart, such emotion, such great creatures, such spectacle, such breadth. Such ambition. 

This could be the last ever SW film and I'd call it a fitting capstone.

EDIT: balls, I see Sheridan already linked to someone else's more elaborate fanon.

[Jim_Campbell]

as per Newton.

That's fair, but the physics of the pursuit to Crait seemed pretty iffy. Spaceships don't slow down and stop when they run out of fuel, so they only explanation for the relative speeds/distance between the ships during the pursuit is that all those ships, rebel and Imperial, were all accelerating at exactly the same speed under thrust, maintaining a constant-ish distance between them. Clearly, the rebel ships weren't faster than the Imperial fleet, and it seems slightly improbable that a fleet of that size couldn't summon a squadron of TIE fighters capable of closing the gap...

[Steve Green]

I'd have to watch it again, but from what I recall...

if Poe had obeyed orders, isn't it likely the Dreadnought would have followed them through space, and destroyed the whole lot (or at least the capital ships).

Didn't his disobedience save the fleet?

IIRC No - [spoiler]the fleet was destroyed anyway. The plan (that he was unaware of) was to get everyone down to the secret base in shuttles without the pursuers noticing so that they would destroy (almost) empty ships when they inevitably caught up with them. If anything, he CAUSES the massive loss of life, because his stupid side plot to find the codebreaker ends up with Del Toro revealing this plan to the FO (some people have said "if Poe didn't know, how could he reveal it", but del Toro is clearly eavesdropping in the scene where Poe finds out)[/spoiler]

[spoiler]with that Dreadnought still active, the fleet and the main cruiser would have likely been destroyed way before they'd got to the secret base, or launched the transports or even got to his and Maz's plan to find the codebreaker.[/spoiler]

[The Legendary Shark]

According to Straczynski's Law, all space vehicles travel at the speed of plot...