The Political Thread

[Richmond Clements]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/23/israel-may-have-committed-war-crimes-in-gaza-un

Aid agencies said a child had been killed every hour on average in the past two days(my emphasis), and there had been a sharp spike in premature births. Gaza officials said more than 3,000 homes had been destroyed or damaged, and 46 schools, 56 mosques, and seven hospitals had been hit.  ...the death toll on the 16th day of conflict topped 700 – more than 690 Palestinians and 35 Israelis including three civilians

Restraint..?

[Old Tankie]

Stop firing rockets into Israel.

[Dandontdare]

I'm steaming about this so-called Russian arms embargo.

If they think that avoiding the economic fallout of damaging trade with Russia outweighs taking punitive action against Putin, then fair enough, just fucking say so. Instead we have Cameron attacking the French and Germans for not stopping arms sales and telling the commons that he had ordered a total embargo on all arms sales to Russia.

This is quite simply a lie - only 34 out of 285 arms export licences to Russia have been suspended or cancelled. The rest include serious military hardware such as surface to air missiles, although the government says these are not being sold to the Russian military. Now I don't know of any civilian organisations in Russia that would be allowed to purchase military hardware, but perhaps they were all sold to the entirely independent "Putinco Inc" and if they then sold them on to the military, well who knew?

It was also glimpsed on the notes of someone going into Downing street a while back that economic sanctions must not impede Russian oligarch's access to the City of London.

Now nations have always taken economic considerations into account when making foreign policy decisions, but it seems like the UK is now just a glorified arms dealership cum accountancy firm. The only time the PM and foreign sec seem to actively engage with other countries is when they're flying around trying to drum up arms sales, whilst turning a blind eye to the customers' human rights records.

Either quit it or admit it, but the weaselly hypocrisy just gets on my tits.

[Richmond Clements]

Since the year 2000, Israel has killed 1,500 Palestinian children, while Palestinians have killed 132 Israeli children. That means Israel has killed over 1,000% percent more Palestinian children than vice versa.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/facts-all-us-citizens-need-to-know-about-israel-and-palestine/5391043

Why do people ignore facts?

[Professor Bear]

Killing ten of the civilian population in retaliation for every one of their own was a common Nazi tactic when they were encountering resistance in occupied territories.  Funny how things come around.

[Old Tankie]

Well, if you're comparing them to the Nazis, they've got a long way to go before they reach 6 million then, haven't they.

[Hawkmumbler]

Well, if you're comparing them to the Nazis, they've got a long way to go before they reach 6 million then, haven't they.

One death is a tragedy. One million is a statistic.

[NapalmKev]

Well, if you're comparing them to the Nazis, they've got a long way to go before they reach 6 million then, haven't they.

People ignored what the Nazis were up to until it was too late. The same thing could, conceivably, be happening here.

I think it could be another case of Ethnic Cleansing, hidden under the guise of self-defence and 'Retaliation against terrorists'.

Cheers

[Frank]

Ignoring the blatant Godwinning of this thread, both the Israeli and Palestinian governments should stop murdering children. No matter how many of your children someone has murdered, murdering their children in retaliation is never a sane or proportionate response.

There's no way for me to talk about selling arms to our enemies without retreading old Bill Hicks routines about Saddam Hussein, but the least the UK and France could do is to ensure weapons which might at some point in the future be turned against us or our allies are anachronistic pieces of crap that fall apart or shoot sideways.

I think it's fine that all of Europe buys its gas from Russia,  just as long as we never actually pay for the stuff. Send the Kremlin a bundle of credit default swaps and collateral used debt obligations as payment, or maybe some Greek government bonds.

[ZenArcade]

Second the above, you're dealing with two utterly cynical groupings in a seemingly endless conflict. They care little if anything for the slaughtered innocents. They are mearly pawns in what is a conflict played out on the media with the purpose of manipulation of media consumers (the rest of us). A plague on the bastards for that.
All we can hope for is a ceasefire and an end to this slaughter, but in the long term brace ourselves for much more of this. This is I think the way century 21 is shaping up. Z

[Professor Bear]

Criticising Israel is not the same thing as endorsing Hamas, no matter what Fox News says.

[Ancient Otter]

I think it's fine that all of Europe buys its gas from Russia,  just as long as we never actually pay for the stuff.

Putin's response:

[Dudley]

Analogies are really unhelpful when it comes to the Israel-Palestine conflict, since they can't take in the context of the psychological necessity of Zionism, Europe's guilt, Arab hostility and unremitting racism, and the special swirl of religion and conspiracy theory on both sides.

[Old Tankie]

Spot on.

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

I am horrified by the actions of both sides. Hamas have started this most recent outbreak of conflict knowing exactly what they were going to bring on themselves and their people, and Israel have followed the script with depressing enthusiasm.

At some point Israel is going to have to stop responding to Hamas provocations, because that is the only way out of this cycle of violence. It's not a very palatable option, though, and I can understand why it's so hard for them to get there.