Life is riddled with a procession of minor impediments

[TordelBack]

And they can't build a phone/computer/console/telly that lasts longer than 7-10 years?

Well I'm sure they can, but it'll cost ya, and 20 years on you'll be fed up because all your mates have one with a self-cleaning penis-socket and a doo-dad that makes you toast.  I think the driver here is the income-level and shallowness of the consumer.

Voyager 2 is probably humanity's single most successful and efficient machine (cool documentary on that monstrous BBC the other night), but while I'm struggling to find a decent breakdown of the construction costs (as opposed to the mission costs), it's probably safe to say that it cost 10s of millions, even with the design costs split 2 ways, and even in the 70's. I'm not sure that's going to wash for my new telly: they're called consumer goods for a reason.

Mind you, Trident 2 allegedly costs $30 million a pop, and I know which project I've got more value out of.

[The Legendary Shark]

The "I'm going" was just an in-joke it seems only I got, :-)
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I'm not saying that new models and technologies should not be developed and sold but why not design them to be easily upgradable/recyclable if you choose? (Why not, for example, make the case out of something biodegradable like hemp?  freecannabis.net/hemp-uses/hemp-fibre/  )  Because lots of people like me are happy with basic things that work. I want something to last for as long I want to use it, not for as long as some accountant calculates it should last for optimum sustained profits.
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And yes, space probes and i-phones are completely different beasts but both basically human technology and design.
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In 2011, Britain's oldest working television set, built in 1936, was sold at auction for nearly £17,000. ( www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1378606/Britains-oldest-working-TV-sells-17-000-Bonhams.html ) It can be done. But they won't do it unless we force them.
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[radiator]

More to the point, why would you want a phone/computer/console/telly that lasts more than 10 years? Not sure I'd still be interested in videogames if they were still running on 8-bit machines, likewise films and TV if TV displays were all still low resolution and black and white.

If things were built to be permanent, technological innovation would come to a screeching halt overnight and everything would stagnate, with (I would imagine) dire ramifications for everything else - the economy, medical science etc.

As I understand it, a piece of modern tech is inherently more fallible for the simple reason that it's infinitely more complex than its 1930s equivalent, not because of this fanciful notion that it was specifically designed to break after a predetermined period of time. Businesses want people to keep buying new products from them, of course they do - so then the pressure is on them to give people a reason to do so - hence innovation. When they can't come up with a convincing enough reason, consumers (who believe it or not aren't all mindless sheep) simply won't fall for it and stick with what they already have - see 3DTV/4K/curved screens and to a lesser extent Blu Ray.

why not design them to be easily upgradable/recyclable if you choose?

Last time I looked there were hundreds of companies whose entire business models revolved around recycling and reconditioning old phones, and Google were developing a modular mobile phone designed specifically for this purpose.

[The Legendary Shark]

I don't disagree but there are many things that really aren't going to get much better; toasters, ovens, torches, razors, tyres, wardrobes, kettles, shovels, spades, lawn mowers, hair dryers, clocks, spanners, cups, plates, spoons, playing cards, trousers, boots, padlocks, etc., etc., etc.
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There will always be a certain amount of wastage as technology advances but we must cut that wastage to a minimum. Make stuff to last and somebody else can get use out of it when you decide to upgrade. Instead of throwing knackered stuff into the bin, wouldn't you rather give something obsolete but still working to people in poorer nations?
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I know I would.

[ZenArcade]

What he said. Z

[Rog69]

What we really need is some kind of open gaming platform that you can buy or easily build yourself from whatever components you like and then just update the parts that need updating to enable you to keep up with the advances. You could customise it to your exact requirements because you would have the freedom to install whatever hardware or software you like. You wouldn't need to throw the whole box away when it becomes outdated and you could even re purpose old hardware for something else. Backwards compatibility would mean all your games would still work after you upgrade, they would probably even run and look better!

If only such a thing existed  .

[The Legendary Shark]

Yes.

[TordelBack]

Make stuff to last and somebody else can get use out of it when you decide to upgrade. Instead of throwing knackered stuff into the bin, wouldn't you rather give something obsolete but still working to people in poorer nations?

Obviously this is a better way to do things, but again I'd see the driver as the consumer, not the manufacturer. When people give a rat's arse beyond their current  convenient diversion/badge of affluence, things will change. Until then anyone making the same product at 3 times the price to last 10 times longer as opposed to 0.15 times thinner  is going out of business.

[Theblazeuk]

The other side of that coin is that when people can't repair their existing stuff for cheaper than getting the new one, they're always going to buy more. Which is a result of a mass manufacturing base existing for the newer stuff.



On another note, the magical box as described by Rog69 just got its long-delayed upgrades today. SSD (and which = 3xHDD drives now being used as dump space) twice as much ram, it's a dream.... but it's still 3 years in the past as double the ram = 4gb. My (admittedly OTT) mate has 16 bloody gb. No more upgrades possible till motherboard is replaced, which will follow with a new CPU... minor impediments indeed.

[Minkyboy]

What we really need is some kind of open gaming platform that you can buy or easily build yourself from whatever components you like and then just update the parts that need updating to enable you to keep up with the advances. You could customise it to your exact requirements because you would have the freedom to install whatever hardware or software you like. You wouldn't need to throw the whole box away when it becomes outdated and you could even re purpose old hardware for something else. Backwards compatibility would mean all your games would still work after you upgrade, they would probably even run and look better!

If only such a thing existed  .

Ha, the final USB port on my motherboard failed before Christmas, so I needed a new motherboard.
Which meant new CPU & cooler & RAM & power supply. But on the plus side I could keep my SSD, Hard Drive, Graphics card, DVD drive, monitor, keyboard, mouse and other gubbins.
I didn't need to replace the case but got this rather nice case anyway which has made my respectable gaming PC basically silent: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CA-096-AE

A lot of the fun in having a PC is replacing various bits over the years until several iterations later it is a completely different machine and you never have to clear it with the missus to get a new one! 

[Rog69]

The other side of that coin is that when people can't repair their existing stuff for cheaper than getting the new one, they're always going to buy more. Which is a result of a mass manufacturing base existing for the newer stuff.

I'm often amazed at how little effort some people put into repairing things these days (and I am going to try to repair my busted PS3), a lot of people just dump stuff and buy new without giving it a second thought. I don't think that there is an appliance in my house that is under 10 years old and most of them have been repaired at least once, granted not everyone is technically minded but with the wealth of info and access to parts via the net, most repairs are trivially easy.

A lot of the fun in having a PC is replacing various bits over the years until several iterations later it is a completely different machine and you never have to clear it with the missus to get a new one! 

The trick is to always keep the case as long as you can, my wife thinks I've had the same PC since 2006

[radiator]

OK, I take it back. Everything is a corporate conspiracy.

How is shit like this even legal? Absolutely disgraceful. As a Brit living America, being able to buy an imported Twirl or Yorkie from my local deli is like a little taste of home.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/24/nyregion/after-a-deal-british-chocolates-wont-cross-the-pond.html?smid=fb-share

Instead of unfairly squashing competition like this, why don't they instead focus on making chocolate that doesn't taste like sawdust and farts?

Pricks.

[Jim_Campbell]

Instead of unfairly squashing competition like this, why don't they instead focus on making chocolate that doesn't taste like sawdust and farts?

Although it must be noted that since Kraft bought out Cadbury, they've been moving more and more of the manufacturing to Poland and changing the recipe of the 'chocolate' to cocoa powder and palm oil, which is why the 'chocolate' is increasingly sickly and gritty. :-(

Cheers

Jim

[Jim_Campbell]

I'm often amazed at how little effort some people put into repairing things these days

I'm amazed how little some people value their time. Admittedly, since I became a freelancer, I feel the value of my time quite acutely, but I've always made a value judgement as to financial cost vs time.

If I'm going to have spend half a day working out how to fix something and then attempting to fix it with no particular guarantee of success, weighed against either paying someone else to fix the damn thing or buying a new one... Well, I'm open to persuasion on the repair front, but my instincts lean towards handing over the cash.

(Note: I understand that for people who are more time-rich and cash-poor this value judgement may work out quite differently. I anticipate that when I retire I'll probably be fixing things that aren't even broken...)

Cheers

Jim

[Rog69]

It's not so much a money saving thing for me (and I'm not particularly time rich either), but I do get a lot of satisfaction from repairing things, give me a faulty washing machine to fix and I will get more enjoyment and a sense of achievement out of that than sitting in front of the TV or playing games for a couple of hours. I guess my brain is just wired that way.

Although it must be noted that since Kraft bought out Cadbury, they've been moving more and more of the manufacturing to Poland and changing the recipe of the 'chocolate' to cocoa powder and palm oil, which is why the 'chocolate' is increasingly sickly and gritty. :-(

Cheers

Jim

I just hope they don't switch to the Hershy's sour milk / vomit flavoured recipe  .