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Accurate Representation of Ethnicity in Historical Fictions

Started by Funt Solo, 04 July, 2021, 05:10:44 PM

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sheridan

Quote from: paddykafka on 06 July, 2021, 03:34:19 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 06 July, 2021, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: dancornwell on 05 July, 2021, 05:06:44 PM
. Oh, and women are harder to draw correctly for some male artists as - again, we generally use ourselves for reference.

And don't forget that pile of magazines under the bed, reference material Shirley?

Undoubtedly - and in keeping with the wholesome nature of this forum - this is the kind of material to which Proudhuff is referring?  ;)

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EXRB4H/1940s-uk-wife-and-home-magazine-cover-EXRB4H.jpg

*tut* - can't believe you posted a picture of somebody in a bath!  Full on to the camera too!

Proudhuff

Quote from: sheridan on 06 July, 2021, 03:52:07 PM
Quote from: paddykafka on 06 July, 2021, 03:34:19 PM
Quote from: Proudhuff on 06 July, 2021, 02:48:49 PM
Quote from: dancornwell on 05 July, 2021, 05:06:44 PM
. Oh, and women are harder to draw correctly for some male artists as - again, we generally use ourselves for reference.

And don't forget that pile of magazines under the bed, reference material Shirley?

I'm just wondering where she's hiding the soap!

Undoubtedly - and in keeping with the wholesome nature of this forum - this is the kind of material to which Proudhuff is referring?  ;)

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EXRB4H/1940s-uk-wife-and-home-magazine-cover-EXRB4H.jpg

*tut* - can't believe you posted a picture of somebody in a bath!  Full on to the camera too!
DDT did a job on me

Proudhuff

DDT did a job on me

Proudhuff

Important and topical thread hijacked and dumped in a Cul-de-sac, wheels off and windscreen smash... sorry
DDT did a job on me

Definitely Not Mister Pops

Quote from: Proudhuff on 14 July, 2021, 11:12:03 AM
Important and topical thread hijacked and dumped in a Cul-de-sac, wheels off and windscreen smash... sorry

This is the way
You may quote me on that.

Funt Solo

I only made this thread to free up the movie thread. Then this one got genuinely interesting for a bit.

The tangentially linked topical news would be whether taking the knee prior to a sporting event is a simple declaration of support for anti-racism, or a dangerous call to an anarchist state? Oh, and can Priti Patel be both racist and the victim of racism at the same time? Tories are saying latter and no, respectively.

Got to say, when I saw Boris on HIGNFY years ago I never thought he'd be the poster boy for a modern, embryonic fascist movement. Yet here we all are.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

IndigoPrime

Quote from: Funt Solo on 14 July, 2021, 03:51:07 PMtaking the knee prior to a sporting event is a simple declaration of support for anti-racism, or a dangerous call to an anarchist state?
The former, unless you're deranged.

Quoteand can Priti Patel be both racist and the victim of racism at the same time?
I find any argument to the contrary of this baffling. It's a way of minimising the abhorrent messaging from people of colour who happen to be horrible. Patel is at the very least xenophobic in a pretty extreme manner, along with being a nationalist. She might not be racist but she frequently uses dog-whistle politics that align with racists. That's the thinnest of lines. But also: of course people who are minorities and who experience racism can be racist themselves.

QuoteGot to say, when I saw Boris on HIGNFY years ago I never thought he'd be the poster boy for a modern, embryonic fascist movement.
I suspect had people been reading his Telegraph column, they might have had a better idea of where things would end up should he ever get anywhere near power.

Definitely Not Mister Pops

In relation to the above, maybe not on the topic of this thread, but certainly in the spirit*, I thought I would post Saka's response to the things:



My main takeaway was this:

Quote
I knew instantly the kind of hate that I was about to receive

Social media has facilitated racism for too long. It has fomented it as a business model. Not just racism, but all forms of abuse have been cultivated to generate traffic and clicks.

If I posted footage of Saka missing his penalty on a social media site, it would be taken down almost instantly.

But if I just called Saka a racial epiphet for missing that penalty, social media hand waves it away with free speech. Claims it's impossible to contain. Like emptying an overflowing bath with a teaspoon. I could call Saka a n*****r with impunity on social media, but if I posted some NWA they would shut it down instantly.

At this stage, I think the only way to stop these bullshitters in this neo-liberal free-market dystopia is to stop supporting these social media conglomerates. Stop giving them clicks and traffic

*of white people trying to understand racism
You may quote me on that.

Funt Solo

I don't really understand the perception that in losing the final, they lost overall. My point: making it to the final at all is a huge achievement. I don't really get that binary nature of football support where it seems to be all or nothing for every match.

"Love always wins" is a nice idea, but not actually a truth (unless it's just his personal truth, of course). Still - I can't but agree with everything else he said.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

broodblik

In most cases in sport second place is the "best" loser, nobody remembers whom came second.
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

Barrington Boots

There's a serious sense of entitlement on football fans in this country, and I say that as a big football fan.

Given the squad we have, and the (lack of) success we've experienced in the last 55 years getting to the final was a big deal in itself but to a lot of fans we 'deserved' to win because we're England and as a nation we are super arrogant about us being the best.
Obviously winning IS what it's all about, and the draw was kind to us - it was definitely our best chance of winning the damn thing, but Italy were the best team in the tournament (and on the day) and they still didn't beat us over 120 minutes. Not winning was crushing but to not credit the achievement of getting where the team did is madness.

I'm not sure if it's different outside England, but where football gives you massive emotional highs it does the same with lows, there are so many people who can't handle their frustration and it just spills out into rage. Smashing up Leicester Square or beating up your wife because your football team lost is just incomprehensible to me but that is a much bigger discussion and probably not for this thread! When I was a kid I was often shocked and scared at the hatred at football matches. Eventually I got used to it, but what was a real eye opener was starting to follow rugby when I married a Welsh girl and the fandom culture there is totally different. I'm not sure what it is about football that is so toxic.

As to the racism on display - it's awful and has been rightly condemned, and was sadly inevitable in light of the messages from our government. This shit has always been there, but now it's creeping back into the light as our overlords pander to bigots to win votes. I really hope this next generation, who seem to be roundly despised for having a social conscience, can change things in the future.
You're a dark horse, Boots.

Barrington Boots

Apologies for a long sport post on a comic forum. I wouldn't dare post about comics on a football forum!
You're a dark horse, Boots.

IndigoPrime

I recall when I was young someone very senior at Crystal Palace (the owner?) arguing the black players were lazy and didn't work as hard as the white ones. Very little has changed in certain areas of the game, not least among supposed fandom. The thing is, take those black players out of the squad and England would be hosed. Take out the rest of the team who have migrant roots and there'd be hardly anyone left. But too many people still double down on this absurd notion about the 'purity' of the English.

It's also notable how the team is 'us' for people when it's winning but 'them' when it isn't. You're either in it or you're not. I don't really give a fuck about football, but I did like what this team represented and how it acted. It was disgraceful to see the desperate attempts by senior Tories to get on board, having roundly ignored or even encouraged racist attacks earlier in the tournament. Fair play if the rumours are true that the Downing Street event was cancelled because the black players said no and the other players joined them in solidarity.

Barrington Boots

Agreed. This English team appears to be full of really nice hard working likeable young men and they've represented the country in a way that puts our government to shame.
You're a dark horse, Boots.

sheridan

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 16 July, 2021, 11:26:16 AM
but I did like what this team represented and how it acted.

Certainly makes a change from all the local teams I've had the misfortune to share cities/towns/boroughs with (their player's only appearances in the local press outside of the sports pages being when they're involved in sexual assaults, racist abuse or attacking patrons at nightclubs in the town centre).