Wow what a trippy Prog.
Dredd - is just about the only straightforward thing in this one and there's a bit to unpick. In and of itself it provides a well structured, satisfying epilogue to this brilliant story. Its just not quite brave enough with what might have been, or at least the questions I created in my mind for what it could be. Plays things with a straight bat in the end. The answers are all pretty well handled with just 2 extra pages again. This one plays it straight though and maybe it might have twisted to more dramatic interesting places. As it is it sets up the sequels nicely, but they are the sequels we could have predicted. Still very good, but I was wondering if this could have been as exceptional as last week. Best thing is the questions it leaves over Logan. I wonder what Dredd's relationship with him is building to.
The rest is quite the trip. Indigo Prime is superb as it plays at being complex and trippy but when you strip away the nice bright lights isn't as complex as it seems but still a very good way to present action and adventure shrouded in corporate schenanigans.
Thistlebone is the scariest of trips, opening things you don't want to see yet somehow you don't want it to end. In part as you not quite sure you'll enjoy what you find and the come down might be harsh. As scary as it might be your having such a fantastic time.
Deadworld is a trip thats lost any sense of what you wanted it to be and you just want it to be over now. Shame as when it started it was a blast.
Full Tilt Boogie reminds you trips aren't for kids! Damn has this come a long way from its Regened roots. As it is we knew this was going to get to be a wonderful mindf**k in that ship and it was. But here the trip ends, not necessarily nicely but it was fun while it lasted, even if I don't really know what it was about while it was going!
Fun Prog on the whole.
I'm very impressed with that cover by Alex Ronald; I hope Tharg gets him in a story soon.
I think I liked Dredd this week more than you did!
Thistlebone is good, I think this third series is the strongest of them.
In Deadworld I can't even remember who Jessica is. Maybe that's my own fault, although it has been four years since the last full series of this thrill. Still fantastic art though.
SPOILER: In Full Tilt Boogie, I'm not sure how Tee got out of that predicament, it feels a bit like "... and in a single bound he was free" territory to me. I like this series though so I'll just assume I'm being dense and go with it.
Four and a half out of five for me this week.
Cover by Alex Ronald:
(https://dyn.media.forbiddenplanet.com/PjzqmJd4IXcIMADsGlyHI9Gp84k=/trim/fit-in/779x1024/filters:format(webp)/https://media.forbiddenplanet.com/products/e2/f9/5f9f2bff3d3693de93321071ec0299160f83.jpg)
Just time to say, so far:
Brilliant cover
Dredd - this story has, for me, been the strongest for many years and the ending was great too.
Thistlebone - wow, again.
Enjoyed the 'ending' of this Dredd tale. Looking forward to where it goes in the future (though to be honest, when it foes return to these threads I'll have forgotten what they're all about coz I'm a bad at remembling).
Thistlebone is always a creepy highlight.
Everything else confused me...
Never know what's going on in Indigo Prime. Deadworld flits between so many threads I lose track and Full Tilt Boogie had too much
AAAAHHHHH SHAAAAA AHHHHHH SHAAAAA for me to care, which is a shame because I've like previous stories. I think it works best with the whole crew.
Now this Dredd story is done, I'm not particularly thrilled about the current thrills.
Dredd What to say about this one? It wraps up one of the strongest and most impactful Dredds for a while - between this and Poison we've had a couple of real good ones lately - although after last week it all felt slightly anticlimatic. The board is set for the next series of plots with Hernandez, Glenn, Logan and this reporter dude all set up for more, plus potentially Domo as well (would have preferred him killed here, as he doesn't add much).
Moodwise, it's all the more depressing for the real world analogies, which gives it more impact but sure doesn't make for a cheery read!
I remember first reading Dredd as a teenager in the late 80s and finding a lot of stories ran with downbeat endings that I found powerful for being a real downer and I got that feeling again here. It all feels a bit hopeless doesn't it? Hernandez and Glenn will get theirs at some point but nothings going to get better.
Brilliant final page.
I was a little muddled by Indigo Prime this week but only because I'd completey forgotten who some of these characters are. That aside this was perfectly fine. I have to say I'm not a fan of Kek's style of writing where he sets up a cliffhanger and then jumps elsewhere, only to later return and resolve that cliffhanger when you've got invested in a different plot. This happens a lot on Deadworld, and it happened here (I wanted to see what happened next with Bateman)
Thistlebone amazing again. There seems to one 'omg' page almost every week from this and that page with the tree is magnificent. I agree that this is, for me, the strongest series of Thistlebone so far.
Deadworld I actually feel this episode was getting back on track. I want the story to focus on these characters. Nails all the creepy / grotesque beats, stick with it please!
Full Tilt Boogie Have to admit I found this one a bit hard to follow storytelling-wise and I'm not really sure what happened. It did seem like a claustrophobic, chaotic rush and perhaps that was the idea - Tee escapes and we don't really know how in a flash of crazy images?
I'm enjoying reading this but as someone said the other week, the pacing is starting to make it feel a bit lightweight.
So much thrill power it ends up even on the back cover. In all, a good Prog, I thought, despite some oddities.
Dredd: Ends on a massive downer. Sets the board up for the next round. I still think it a pity that one of the very few prominent women in the strip was killed, and all the blokes are mostly OK. Perhaps that will be temporary. I don't know.
Questions: Dredd has felt ineffectual to some degree. "We can never do enough." Well, sure, Dredd, but you did fuck all. Perhaps Maitland wouldn't be alive if you'd done more, but you could have done something. But also in his confrontation with Hernandez, that doesn't feel like a Dredd with stature – this feels more like a Dredd marginalised. And, frankly, given that he repeatedly refuses to take up a position of authority, what right does he have to keep trying to steer Justice Department?
Elsewhere: who is the woman looking pissed off next to Glenn? Is Mr Shooty Pants fucked? And, frankly, are Williams/Wyatt sitting the stage for a lone journo to somehow fight the good fight against the power of a megacorp publisher? Because if so, that in itself might be the least realistic thing in years of the fantastical and often bonkers world of Dredd. (I don't remember Roth. Has he been in the strip before?)
Oh, and Beeny. Really, where does she go? Also marginalised and surrounded by aggressive and power-hungry men. The Williams iteration of Dredd got angry about Hershey being ambitious. Quite why he's not going apeshit over the current council and yelling he doesn't recognise their authority, I'm not sure.
Anyway, lots to ponder. I do hope it goes somewhere. I'm angry Maitland is gone. But also this is one of the best Dredd strips in ages.
Indigo Prime: On the right side of making sense. But did Kek-W come up with a really oddball way of dealing with Tyranny's changes – multiple clones of her from distinct points in her past – only to wipe that all out in an explosion?
Thistlebone: Bit on the nose for me this week, to be honest. Still very good, mind, and blimey does Simon Davis do some fantastic horror painting word. "Yes, I can make a tree look terrifying." "Sure, mate." "No, look." "Fucking hell."
Deadworld: Not bad, in part because there's no Sidney and there's some proper horror. That bone... thing was nasty. I'm hoping this series as a whole reads better compiled though. Echoing Colin, though, I kind of wish this was done now, sadly.
Full Tilt Boogie: Erm. I mean, I guess you can't always have something that's fully coherent as a standalone episode. It looked great and was heavy on the terror (although I wasn't keen on those pink comic lettering AAAAAAAH SFX), but it did feel very slight. A strip that in this case could have done with more space. But I'm sure it's going to read great when collected, given how pacey it is.
So this week, it was varying degrees of liking everything. A good mix, which is ideal territory for an anthology. But a few questions here and there about the nature of some elements.
Dredd > Indigo Prime > Thistlebone > Full Tilt Boogie > Deadworld
Can't agree more on Dredd. Mrs. Boots read the Prog yesterday and said something along the lines of why doesn't Dredd become Chief Judge then, and if there isn't a good reason, why does he keep moaning about Hershey, the council etc?
There's no satisfactory answer to that I think, beyond 'it's the story setup'.
The Fall of Deadworld - Jessica is actually the main protagonist (ha ha concept for this story, I know), sometimes referred to as The Judge Child of this dimension - and potentially a threat to the Sisters (if anything is).
She hasn't really been a regular character since 2019's Doomed, but there was a sort of whatever happened to Jessica? one-off in 2021.
I did an entire series re-read before tackling last year's Retribution. Big fan.
A good prog with some minor bumps on the road.
Dredd – The epilogue rather than just wrapping up the current storyline it opens new threats and possibilities. Even the chief judge does not look safe as we are entering a new phase where the thrust has been broken. This was an excellent run with Flint taking center stage.
Indigo Prime – Not always the most coherent story for me and the new series continues in that vein. For some time now I felt like do we really need this to continue or is it best to sunset this. I will keep judgment for later.
Thistlebone – The creepiest continue and again some really create imagery by Simon Davis.
Deadworld – see Indigo Prime for a similar take. I do not have any issues with the art and it works excellent with the atmosphere of the story.
Full Tilt Boogie – This new series has heavily focused on using art as a way of telling the story and this last episode continues that trend. This is a very enjoyable series with some top-notch art.
As a concept, Indigo Prime has a lot going for it. But some strips are so intertwined with their creators that they don't always work when handed over to someone else. With John Smith, that's doubly problematic, due to his very distinct voice. I thought Kek-W did a solid job of finishing off the strip Smith had started, but I'm not entirely convinced by some of the decisions made, and, frankly, just miss Smith being in the Prog. (Conversely, Devlin Waugh under Kot in particular has been working very well, as far as I'm concerned. And I'm sure there are plenty of readers who'd flip or change those viewpoints.)
I agree Kot worked for me when he took Devlin over. My problem or my feeling about Indigo Prime was always divided, I am not sure if I like or not (so currently I am leading more to the later).
PS - In a perfect world we would have John Smit still writing for the prog. I also misses his distinct voice
I'm enjoying being back on board 2000AD. I stopped reading in the early 2000s and just took out the digital sub a couple of weeks ago. The only bad part is waiting until Wednesday to read it when I can see people on here have their physical progs already.
Dredd, Thistlebone and Full Tilt Boogie are all excellent. With Indigo Prime and especially Deadworld I'm being dropped in the middle of stories where I have no idea what's going on so it's hard to judge.
Actually I haven't read any previous series of Thistlebone or FTB either so maybe that's no excuse.
Each Thistlebone has been smartly self-contained within the wider mythos. (In short: scary weird shit happens in the woods.) FTB... a lot happened in the first series, but the storytelling is such that it doesn't impact on your enjoyment if you've not read it.
But, yeah: Deadworld is borderline impenetrable at times for me, and I have all the Progs and the collections. And Indigo Prime even under John Smith wasn't a forgiving strip if you rocked up in the middle of it. But in the past it was at least relatively self-contained per series, whereas now it's drawing in threads (and, seemingly, then immediately abandoning some) from the strip's entire history, along with that of a spin-off.
i still love me some indigo prime.
Quote from: The Monarch on 06 March, 2024, 12:48:08 PMi still love me some indigo prime.
He's a very good admin...
Great Dredd and Thistlebone.
and a cracking cover, the Alexdroid should be on a retainer and serving up one a month from here on in! ( I did however read that text as Escaped Poo :-\ )
One of the best Dredd's for a long time and last week's double spread was a real jaw dropper, the art has also helped tremendously.
I thought this was a rather better instalment of 'Deadworld' - I could almost comprehend everything in this week's storyline. This is due for a complete re-read of the entire thing sooner rather than later. In the meantime, another hardcover would not go amiss.
Great conclusion to 'A Better World' - I don't envy the droid who had to come up with some light-hearted, single-episode filler (if indeed that's what we get) to follow it next week. I guess if Dredd was a monthly U.S. comic then writers would have a stint for a few years at a time to fashion their vision for the title, rather than have to supply chapters intermittently. The weekly model might not allow it but I'd like to see droids like Williams, Wyatt, Niemand, Carroll et al have a consistent run so we could really lose ourselves in their take on MC-1.
(How much detail is there in that final panel? Insane.)
Elsewhere Full Tilt Boogie and Thistlebone are so, so good. Normally I'd feel a bit short-changed if a story was as light on dialogue as some instalments of Full Tilt Boogie have been this time around, but the artwork delivers such compelling narrative that it doesn't matter. Thistlebone is sick.
Much fun to be had in the Kek-W worlds too, with the usual caveat that the plots of both Deadworld and Indigo Prime have gone way past the point of comprehension.
Oh, the cover. I think I've mentioned in the past that generally, I prefer to see covers illustrated by the strips' current artist. That way, they're like the strip basically has a whole bonus page. Having said that, where would we be without the prog's roster of cover artists? The Ronald droid is one of my absolute favourites and they've done a sterling job here, glorious art... I just don't think it really captures the essence of Full Tilt Boogie, which to me is more whimsical. Also it's not really a great likeness of Tee, and I say that realizing Alex Ronald and Eduardo Ocana have very different styles. So although it's a great piece of art, for me it's only kind of a qualified success.
I really liked the ending of the Dredd story. I mean, it was awful and heartbreaking but so was the end of America. Took me back to the classic era of the first stirrings of the Democracy storyline in MC1, and a grim reminder that despite the slightly mellower Justice Dept of the present day, this city is a shitty place to live even at the best of times.
Tragedy works for Dredd, and always has done. I suppose the big difference these days is that grandpa Dredd is slightly keener to fight the horror than to dish it out.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 06 March, 2024, 01:34:48 PMQuote from: The Monarch on 06 March, 2024, 12:48:08 PMi still love me some indigo prime.
He's a very good admin...
I was gonna make a "and the strip was pretty good too" joke so i am kinda glad you got to it first
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 06 March, 2024, 05:38:18 PMI really liked the ending of the Dredd story. I mean, it was awful and heartbreaking but so was the end of America. Took me back to the classic era of the first stirrings of the Democracy storyline in MC1, and a grim reminder that despite the slightly mellower Justice Dept of the present day, this city is a shitty place to live even at the best of times.
Tragedy works for Dredd, and always has done. I suppose the big difference these days is that grandpa Dredd is slightly keener to fight the horror than to dish it out.
The Logan as potential antagonist (or, perhaps worse, too weak) is an interesting angle. It was a very good episode.
---
Continuing on my vein of being a bit disappointed with cookie cutter character depictions, I did get genuinely confused this week with the visual representations of the journalist and the man-in-the-coat (thinking they were the same person), to the extent that I was confused as to who shot Maitland, until I unraveled it.
Happy to concede that I'm just being a bit of a loon.
No, I initially thought the same about the two characters. Not sure who the journo was. Again, has anyone noticed him before? Is he a previous character?
As for "grandpa Dredd is slightly keener to fight the horror than to dish it out", I dunno. It feels like he's happy to just kind of ignore it so he can get on with doing his own thing. And despite his misgivings for Hershey, it's notable that during her time, Dredd was effectively considered council and had the clout to match. Now? Hard to say, but it doesn't look like he has any real influence at this point.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 06 March, 2024, 07:53:11 PMNo, I initially thought the same about the two characters. Not sure who the journo was. Again, has anyone noticed him before? Is he a previous character?
As for "grandpa Dredd is slightly keener to fight the horror than to dish it out", I dunno. It feels like he's happy to just kind of ignore it so he can get on with doing his own thing. And despite his misgivings for Hershey, it's notable that during her time, Dredd was effectively considered council and had the clout to match. Now? Hard to say, but it doesn't look like he has any real influence at this point.
He was previously seen and later mentioned in "Carry the Nine" by Rob Williams, Arthur Wyatt and Boo Cook (Part Two & Four, Prog's 2201 & 2204) back in 2020.
I meant Prog #2202 & #2304, not #2202.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 06 March, 2024, 07:53:11 PMHard to say, but it doesn't look like he has any real influence at this point.
It is interesting to reframe him from feared/respected top dog to a still capable but aging figure on the edge of the real power. As he refuses to engage in the political machinations, he's either a help or a hindrance to those choosing to wield managerial power.
I prefer this nuance to that guy in the walls with biscuits and tea thing - although it was cool when he got sliced in half trying to walk through walls.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 06 March, 2024, 07:53:11 PMNo, I initially thought the same about the two characters. Not sure who the journo was. Again, has anyone noticed him before? Is he a previous character?
As for "grandpa Dredd is slightly keener to fight the horror than to dish it out", I dunno. It feels like he's happy to just kind of ignore it so he can get on with doing his own thing. And despite his misgivings for Hershey, it's notable that during her time, Dredd was effectively considered council and had the clout to match. Now? Hard to say, but it doesn't look like he has any real influence at this point.
Fair point. I had just listened to the Democracy series audiobook when I posted and was thinking of when Dredd was, a couple of shortlived doubts aside, presented as a complete bastard and an unwavering traditionalist, whereas these days he's very often at least sympathetic to the reformers (if increasingly ineffective, as you say).
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 04 March, 2024, 04:42:39 PMSo much thrill power it ends up even on the back cover. In all, a good Prog, I thought, despite some oddities.
Dredd: Ends on a massive downer. Sets the board up for the next round. I still think it a pity that one of the very few prominent women in the strip was killed, and all the blokes are mostly OK. Perhaps that will be temporary. I don't know.
Questions: Dredd has felt ineffectual to some degree. "We can never do enough." Well, sure, Dredd, but you did fuck all. Perhaps Maitland wouldn't be alive if you'd done more, but you could have done something. But also in his confrontation with Hernandez, that doesn't feel like a Dredd with stature – this feels more like a Dredd marginalised. And, frankly, given that he repeatedly refuses to take up a position of authority, what right does he have to keep trying to steer Justice Department?
My subscription's due to be renewed in a week or two.
I think it's finally time for me to draw the line.
Regards,
Robin
This Dredd story has pushed to examine what I most want from a longer Dredd tale. I do liek the politic-y tales, and it's definitely the case that I really want to see the Dredd/Beeny/Maitland combo manage to push through some sort of democractic reform onto MC1, because I'm a liberal lefty and seeing that would make me feel good. But of course it would end up breaking 'Judge Dredd' as a strip so it can't/shouldn't actually happen.
Which means we get these downer-ending stories, and when they're as magnificently well-drawn as this one - might be BEST ever art on a Dredd serial, for real - I'm OK with it. But thinking further, for me the truly successful 'downer ending' Dredd tales are the ones where it's Dredd himself who more or less agrees with the 'bad' thing that happens - as in America, for one example. I get that he's becoming more and more anti-fascist as the years go by, but the power of the character is at its strongest when we're reminded that he genuinely believes that being a shouty bully and using violence to solve problems is the best way to keep citizens safe. So mostly all I have to look forward to is Dredd punching out another Judge Grice lookalike at some point.
As for the rest of the Prog, it's definitely a win in the art column for all stories. Kendall's vision of giant arty towers made of human remains is up there with Kev O'Neill's from Nemesis Book 1. And yes, that SB Davis sure can paint trees and dead animals and duffed-up humans real good.
Agree that Full Tilt Boogie doesn't really explain itself in terms of 'how did she get out of that trap' - but with a get-out clause that I think the inside of that weird spaceship is meant to be trippy and dreamlike, in a Stalker/Annihilation sense. In that context it makes sense to me that will-power is enough to help a person escape, and of course we don't yet know what else Tee has brought out of the ship with her, even if it's just a big dose of anxiety/fear. Also it all justifies the cover which is an all-timer!
I thought, in Full Tilt Boogie, her screaming caused some kind of resonance in the big pink thing that eventually shattered. Also the floaty spanner got her out of the immediate confines of the trap. Really enjoying this Thrill, even though the text is sparse.
Quote from: Robin Low on 07 March, 2024, 10:56:56 AMMy subscription's due to be renewed in a week or two.
I think it's finally time for me to draw the line.
Regards,
Robin
Sorry to see you leave, Robin. I've been wavering a bit myself in recent years but generally at least one story has kept me on board.
This Dredd strip seems to have been a crowd-pleaser for most of the forum.
I'll take the contrarian stance - I thought it was awful from start to inevitable finish.
First; the promo.
There is a certain aspect to the story-line's marketing that seems to readily wish to attempt to ingratiate / piss off the 5% of whack-jobs on either of the polar opposite ends of the ever-so-tiresome political spectrum.
"Defund Judge Dredd!!!" probably doesn't resonate too strongly with the overwhelming majority of level headed readers hailing from the UK or Ireland.
As a citizen of the latter, I can reliably inform you all that we're about 20 years away from funding our (unarmed) police force to a competent minimum level.
Yeah, I'm aware of the location that the strip is set in, but this just seemed to be too much of a Bleedingcolon level of shit-stirring cringe for my taste buds.
Second; the premise.
How did anyone think that the story would end in any other way than it did?
If they can't let a late septuagenarian take the long walk in peace, then why would this be the story to upend the basic set-up of the strip?
Third; the execution.
God-tier artwork from Flint can't always save the day, as history has regrettably shown us, and this was another such case for me.
Couldn't stand Maitland from her first appearance, have no clue about the Red Queen stuff as a non-Meg reader and typing the words "Lead Villain: Major Domo" would give Chris Claremont a spinal convulsion.
This story didn't even come close to Twilight's last Gleaming for me, never mind the likes of America.
As for the rest of the Prog; I am getting a Thrill-Kek out of both Indigo Prime and Deadworld, and Thistlebone III remains the strongest strip in ages, maybe years.
Wonderful artwork on all three strips too.
I still skip the impenetrable Full Suck Suckie, but yeah - nice cover by Lex.
Parody?
Quotethe power of the character is at its strongest when we're reminded that he genuinely believes that being a shouty bully and using violence to solve problems is the best way to keep citizens safe
Or at least that the best way to keep the citizens safe is something that Dredd is wholeheartedly behind, and he shows his willingness to take people there.
Thinking about this more broadly, it's interesting to look back over the history of Dredd and consider how he was for a time akin to a weapon. The Chief Judge of the era would point Dredd at a problem and he would sort it – in a manner befitting of that Chief Judge. So when hardliner Silver rocked up, Dredd was at his most ferocious. Only when he started questioning his place in the system and was faced with Chief Judges that were sub-par (thereby positioning Cal not so much as a blip but a regular occurrence) did he start to step up.
The question is: what does Dredd believe now? Does he believe in the status quo, despite it being shown to not be the best way? Or will he argue that 304 did ultimately fail and need 'saving' by the judges, even though it was compromised and sabotaged by Justice Department itself? And if we're still somewhat in the space of "a few bad eggs – with notably more at the top", what then? Dredd carries on dispensing justice and occasionally going above and beyond in being a bit more human, but ultimately supports a top-down mandate he no longer fully believes in, because there's no alternative – even though an alternative did exist?
I'd honestly be surprised if too much of this is answered. But it's interesting one shortish series has provided a wealth of opportunity for some fantastic follow-ups. (And looking online, it's really engaged people with the strip again.) I just hope whatever does come can be transformative in a meaningful sense, and it won't just be Dredd punching Hernandez in the face "for Maitland", while a fridge lurks at the edge of the panel, muttering "Really?"
As noted elsewhere in this thread, I'd hope the creators and Maitland were both too smart for that. If Hernandez is going to be taken down, it needs to be Maitland that does it, albeit from beyond the grave and perhaps with Dredd driving/assisting that. But it cannot – must not – be Dredd alone.
SPOILER WARNING for Judge Dredd: Origins (because it's in the latest Complete Case Files)
Origins ended with Fargo pleading with Dredd to end the system he had created, but Dredd didn't do anything about it then and it wasn't followed up on. Then at the end of Day of Chaos it was obvious to everyone that Justice Dept had failed to protect the city. If neither of those events prompted Dredd to change his views, I'm not sure what else would.
With Origins, I'd say that Dredd leaves with a question in his mind. As evidenced in the recent story (and it's not the first time Dredd's expressed discomfort) he actively avoids anything that he perceives as too political. It gives him an out, basically. If he's a hammer, and those perps are nails, then he knows what to do. With the politics, he can't tell clearly where the nails are, sometimes, so he goes looking for more obvious nails.
With Day of Chaos, yes, the Judges had failed to protect the citizenry - but they were under attack. It would be odd for Dredd to conclude "well, we failed to protect the city so we should let it descend into further chaos", as if disbanding the Judge system would somehow make it easier for the city to survive.
I'd say we're moving into new territory with this latest story, building on those events from the past. Dredd has low esteem for plots against the Council (exception: Cal), and only moves against it when it's absolutely clear that he's hammering a nail. He's been outsmarted here, and retreats in confusion.
Quote from: Richard on 07 March, 2024, 05:02:00 PMSPOILER WARNING for Judge Dredd: Origins (because it's in the latest Complete Case Files)
Origins ended with Fargo pleading with Dredd to end the system he had created, but Dredd didn't do anything about it then and it wasn't followed up on. Then at the end of Day of Chaos it was obvious to everyone that Justice Dept had failed to protect the city. If neither of those events prompted Dredd to change his views, I'm not sure what else would.
Dredd's problem is that he doesn't
know what else to do. Here, Maitland had shown him an alternative, or at least a positive way forward, and proved it could work.
Now, it may be that there will be follow-up stories where Dredd kicks the shit of Hernandez and then gets someone else to implement Maitland's vision. Hell, for all we know they really plan to reveal that Maitland isn't really dead and Hernandez is being played.
Maitland's vision doesn't doesn't stop Dredd being Dredd or undermine continuation of the series. There will still be future crime. There'll still be ordinary crime. Hell, we have an education system, some countries have better ones, but crime, poverty, and hopelessness still exist. It
is possible to make the city better, but still need the Judges. Maybe fewer of them. Maybe like that early depiction of the system where you have and ordinary police force and the Judges.
The story that set this all up probably stopped me dropping the comic at the time. This story just rubbed me up the wrong way, and I can't see the point any more. Perhaps I'm wrong and I'll get story I want, but, you know, I'll pick it up in the collections.
Regards,
Robin
for me if Maitland's plan did get implemented it would have ended Dredd as we know it. I just cannot see how the world would have moved forward for me. I excepted this type of ending but not the end of Maitland (no Hersey moves here please). I can see that some interesting development could spawn out of this - maybe a coup, maybe so limit Maitland projects or even Dredd changes how he do things. Lets see and hopefully we will see some repercussions from this.
I respect Robin's position. I'd say it surprises me that Dredd might be the thing that the prog stands or falls on. For me, Dredd has always had ups and downs, and ever since Wagner stepped back as the core creative voice, it's been a little disjointed in terms of its continuity.
Isn't it utterly bonkers, though, that we have a narrative throughline stretching all the way from 1977 to 2024? I mean, no wonder that the continuity is stretched to breaking point, and Dredd's too old etc.
Anyway - I enjoy the prog as a whole, whether I'm enjoying Dredd or not. (Honestly, I'm a bit "I'm with N-AI-mand block", but there's lots to enjoy about the other writers as well.)
Crickey! you guys read a lot into all this! I'm just hanging on to Dredd's coat tails enjoying the ride, and this latest story was a corker, great build up, great reveal, shock ending (for me), wonderful art and hopefully a great set up for the next story arc.
This and Thistlebone have carried the Prog for me recently, with the promise of Scarlet Traces and the death of deathworld, I'm happy to keep my subbie keeping Tharg in plastic cups :D
Quote from: Funt Amenable to Change on 07 March, 2024, 03:34:02 PMParody?
Parody, maybe.
Clickbait - yes.
Quote from: Richard on 07 March, 2024, 05:02:00 PMSPOILER WARNING for Judge Dredd: Origins (because it's in the latest Complete Case Files)
Origins ended with Fargo pleading with Dredd to end the system he had created, but Dredd didn't do anything about it then and it wasn't followed up on. Then at the end of Day of Chaos it was obvious to everyone that Justice Dept had failed to protect the city. If neither of those events prompted Dredd to change his views, I'm not sure what else would.
Agree with this.
Fancifully mooted a few times on the Forum, but
Day of Chaos felt like a natural end to the series.
Moreso as the years have passed.
I was just pondering that the difference between Day of Chaos and the other disasters that have befallen the city is just one thing: Dredd hangs his head in shame.
Did think it was a little bit of a cop-out (if you'll excuse the pun) to end the penultimate instalment with Dredd at the hands of a baying mob, then start the next episode with the hand-waving explanation the riots "dwindled to nothing hours later".
(Or did I miss something..?)
Quote from: norton canes on 08 March, 2024, 09:14:12 AMDid think it was a little bit of a cop-out (if you'll excuse the pun) to end the penultimate instalment with Dredd at the hands of a baying mob, then start the next episode with the hand-waving explanation the riots "dwindled to nothing hours later".
(Or did I miss something..?)
I'd forgotten about that, with the assassination of Maitland overtaking all other events. But yeah, you're right. It didn't make a whole lot of sense.
This is a really good discussion!
I really wanted some change coming out of this story and what we got was the jackboot - it left me feeling quite down, but reading all this has cheered me a lot.
The ending is bleak, but there's still the possibility of some hope. That's tempered by the fact that we didn't really see too much change after stuff like DoC and the IP is presumably too valuable to mess with too much. But 2000ad has never been a publication to shy away from risks with its tales.
What's very interesting about this time around is that I feel Dredd is not part of the solution but part of the problem. His inaction in tackling the larger issues, time and time again, whilst slinging his judgement at those who do is grating.
I don't know how much of this is shaped by being seen through the lense of a longtime reader though. It'd be interesting to get a new readers perspective on all of this.
It's the hope that gets you, I suppose.
I also felt like Dredd was quite distant in this saga almost that he just did not care. Maybe the death of Maitland rattled him at the end thus directly taking on Hernandez
This week I loved everything except FTB which just left me cold.
So I've been back and re-read the current series to date and while I'm still not convinced by the artwork I can see where the story is developing. It does seem to be better consumed in one go so I'll keep trying with it.
Indigo Prime makes a good effort at explaining then tidying some messy back story.
Elsewhere, Deadworld moves us on to another set of characters and still remains one of my favourites.
Dredd concludes with two old men making oblique threats towards one another and I'm interested in the next part of this story but I'll be surprised if we don't end up with whiplash if we just get a couple of single-issue joke episodes.
Thistlebone is still the highlight, for me, in a really good set of thrills.
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 08 March, 2024, 09:30:46 AMQuote from: norton canes on 08 March, 2024, 09:14:12 AMDid think it was a little bit of a cop-out (if you'll excuse the pun) to end the penultimate instalment with Dredd at the hands of a baying mob, then start the next episode with the hand-waving explanation the riots "dwindled to nothing hours later".
(Or did I miss something..?)
I'd forgotten about that, with the assassination of Maitland overtaking all other events. But yeah, you're right. It didn't make a whole lot of sense.
On the one hand, Dredd being up against all odds and surviving comes as no surprise. On the other hand, it was a bit "cliffhanger::never mind". The bigger question for me (aside from the off screen "how did Dredd get out of that?") is whether or not Control were deliberately ignoring his pleas for help.
Bit of a bummer if control keep *krzzzt*-ing him when he's in trouble.
I thought it was pretty clear last week that a bash on Dredd's helmet had knocked out his comms.
In theory I'm all for the more political Dredd stories - my younger self was clamoring for them, and always got excited when the Council of Five showed up for a handful of panels - but these days I don't see the point. Or I do, but I can also see beyond the immediate thrill of having Dredd up against the system (the one bad guy he can't beat) to the point where all these stories do is set Dredd up to lose.
We know Dredd is bad at politics, because he's always been bad at politics: it's a core part of the character. And with Dredd pretty much proved to be the Greatest Judge Who Ever Lived, it's hard to come up with plausible bad guys that provide a threat. But the system's never going to really change, because if it does that's the end of the series. In the past there's been a bunch of good stories exploring Dredd vs Justice Department, ranging from The Day the Law Died to Necropolis to Tour of Duty. But they were all focused on Dredd himself: either the system (for whatever reason) wanted Dredd out, or Dredd himself had enough doubts to quit (and then come back because MC1 wouldn't last a week without him).
Of late we get stories where Dredd is off to the side, a bystander to events he doesn't like but isn't comfortable tackling head-on. Those earlier stories were all about Dredd restoring the system and a lot of the dramatic tension came from our knowing the system Dredd was defending was actually pretty bad. Now it's all about rubbing how bad things are in old man Dredd's nose while he just... puts up with it, because otherwise there's no series.
If all this was leading to something - Dredd quits, Dredd guns down the Council of Five and takes over - then the downbeat endings would have some meaning. But what seems to be the pattern in recent years is that Dredd eventually takes out the trash (usually by playing second fiddle to some other character that does a lot of the hard work), only for a new batch of corrupt or dodgy Judges to turn up. It might be realistic, but dramatically it's not all that satisfying to read.
Quote from: 13school on 09 March, 2024, 09:04:22 AMBut the system's never going to really change, because if it does that's the end of the series.
I don't that's the case, for reasons I mentioned in an earlier post: crime is still going to exist, the same way it does in our world despite education and democratic systems. There'll still be a place for Judges. Dredd can still be Dredd. The city might change over time, but the realistic procedurals, the future crimes, all the weirdness is still there to play with.
Regards,
Robin