The Political Thread

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

Since when did The People's opinion on anything change government policy?

Have you heard of that brexit* thing?

The word "brexit" is in my predictive text. The name of my hometown isn't, along with several other proper nouns. I don't know what to make of that

[sheridan]

I expect there will be a perfunctory debate over this in parliament ...

We already had one in response to the last petition to ban Trump from the UK, last Summer (587,000 signatures).

This one is not to ban Trump, just not to treat him to a full state visit with meeting with the queen.

The petition that attracted the greatest number of signatures in the history of that site (4 million) pointlessly called for a change to the rules of the Brexit referendum (after the vote). And that's why we aren't leaving the EU anymore.

The one that was started by a Brexiteer who thought he was going to lose the referendum and started the petition before it had happened, and was then upset when it took off after his side 'won'.

[JOE SOAP]

There's enough dirt to go round - not just for Donnie Tinyhands.

"You can bomb the shit out of them but as soon as you try to bar them from coming into the country...you're a monster."

Trump Muslim Ban Made Possible By Obama Admin & Media Won't Tell You

[The Legendary Shark]

Have you heard of that brexit* thing?

It ain't changed nothing yet...

[The Legendary Shark]

I haven't fact-checked this link (because it's silly o' clock in the ay-em)  and therefore present it without comment one way or the other:

Trump's Executive Order on Refugees — Separating Fact from Hysteria.

Make of it what you will.

[TordelBack]

I make of it a heap of racist horseshit.  Framed as a thoughtful response to "hysterical rhetoric" its central thrust is hysterical rhetoric:

Unless we want to simply accept Muslim immigrant terror as a fact of American life....

Or to paraphrase, a Final Solution is what we need, but this is a useful first step.

And then my current favourite line of argument, "But Obama!", wherein the former communist Muslim foreigner terrorist and actual founder of ISIS is now presented as having been at least as hard-line on immigrants as Trump, if not more.

Always good to start the day wanting to vomit.

[Hawkmumbler]

Fuck sake, who put Immortan Joe in charge if the states?!

[Modern Panther]

"Hilary took money from the Saudis"

Proceeds to close borders for Muslim nations except the ones Trump has businesses in.

"Hilary will be weak on the Russians"

Decides that Russian sanctions should be lifted.

"Hilary is in the pockets of elitist businessmen"

Both is an elitist billionaire, and fills a cabinet with them.



They've now decided the executive order says something that it does not say, and that it doesn't apply to travellers with joint citizenship.  There are, of course, no European terrorists.

Meanwhile, Farage of the Ukips agrees with the travel ban, and Paul Nuttals of the Ukips seems to think it just prevents "Jihadis" from traveling.

[Goaty]

Should President of the United States don't got personal Twitter as notice his moaning tweets about Media and people!

[Theblazeuk]

Have you heard of that brexit* thing?

It ain't changed nothing yet...

Sharky, it has. At the very least look in a comic book shop and ask them how their margins are doing.

[The Legendary Shark]

Is that down to Brexit, though, (which hasn't happened yet) or fear/speculation over the future? I suppose that, in a nit-picking kind of way, Brexit is having some effect but that effect is caused by the prospect of it and not the reality. It seems to me that nobody knows when or even if Brexit will happen or what form it will take when it does and so I think the apparent current effects are more about uncertainty than anything else.

However, I honestly don't care about Brexit and so haven't looked at it very closely - so you may well be correct in what you say.

[Theblazeuk]

Your ability to focus on the abstract in defiance of the material is always of interest Sharks 'In a nitpicking sort of way', you may have noticed most things in the supermarkets have gone up by 10p as well. Let's not have a rehash of the eternal currency-is-a-lie debate though.

Anywho.

Part of my job is helping people file visas and so on for different countries around the world. Today is a very sad day as I see so much human suffering caused so callously. The uncertainty now troubling so many people's ability to return home, see family, live their lives (never mind all the tourists and visa holders).... all for what? And the misinformation infuriates me as even my manager, who fucking runs a team giving advice on Visa applications, doesn't understand the difference between this order and the DHI's existing list of sensitive countries, and doesn't care to find out beyond saying 'They've simply tightened it'.

There he goes, 'shaking things up'. Like a fucking earthquake.

[Jim_Campbell]

However, I honestly don't care about Brexit and so haven't looked at it very closely - so you may well be correct in what you say.

I outlined the problem with sterling's over-valuation and the more-or-less inevitable impact on that due to brexit and invited some kind of cogent response from any pro-bexiters, in reply to which we got some flagrant trolling and a temporary thread lock, which implies a certain lack of answers.

I'd still be interested to learn what anyone from either side of the argument thinks can be done to avoid or mitigate the crash, or offer an explanation (beyond "well, it might not happen" or "what do you know about it") as to why sterling isn't over-valued.

Sterling's loss in value is already feeding through into food prices. Larger retailers are, to an extent, absorbing the worst of it in their margins, for now, but if sterling continues its current slide against the euro and the dollar you're going to start seeing significantly increased prices on the shelves.

[Professor Bear]

I'm so glad we have our wasteland back.

[The Legendary Shark]

Sorry, Blaze - the nit-pickery was all mine, I used it to demonstrate (I thought) my lack of understanding of the Brexit thing which is, to me, an entirely artificial problem and unworthy of much attention. But yes, just because it's an artificial problem that doesn't mean its effects on people are unreal. Sometimes (often) I allow my disdain for such things to carry me away. (That 10p added to supermarket prices, and the fluctuations in the "value" of Sterling are also artificial problems, the results of bureaucratic interference with the markets and exchanges, which have real world effects. But, as you say, let's not rehash all that.)

At heart, most problems caused by governments are artificial, the result of somebody's idea of how things should work being imposed on everyone else. This current US immigration thing is a good example - somebody thinks X,Y and Z are good ideas and so imposes them regardless of impacts on individuals. It makes my blood boil, I can't help it, and only adds fuel to my dislike of government authority. Every time, or almost every time, some privileged buffoon in government puts his name to a piece of legislation (artificial law, in my view), somebody suffers in reality. I know few people sympathise with my view of government and that my style of argument wins me no support but I do proceed from a foundation of treating human beings (all human beings, from Trumps to tramps) with humanity. Government is unable and unwilling to do the same, it simply has to be callous or else lose its authority, which is why I detest it.