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General Chat => Help! => Topic started by: El Spurioso on 24 October, 2007, 11:42:30 AM

Title: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: El Spurioso on 24 October, 2007, 11:42:30 AM
Anyone?  
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Wils on 24 October, 2007, 11:55:50 AM
I'm not exactly sure if there's a current 'official' number, although I still have 800,000,000 in my head, which is probably *massively* out of date.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: DavidXBrunt on 24 October, 2007, 12:03:50 PM
Between 7 and 12.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2007, 12:03:58 PM
I thought it was 800,000,000 prior to the Apocalypse War, which halved it to 400,000,000.
Title: Judge Dredd - UFC Fighter!!
Post by: jimmibo on 24 October, 2007, 12:08:13 PM
Judge Dredd has obviously travelled back in time, and is working undercover as Dan "Hollywood" Henderson in the Ultimate Fighting Championship.  There's no mistaking that chin...
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 24 October, 2007, 12:16:25 PM
Yup, 400 mill would be my reading too - it occasionally creeps up higher, but Necropolis (30 million, wasn't it?), Judgement Day, Sin City, Total War and so forth keep trimming it back.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: El Spurioso on 24 October, 2007, 12:21:05 PM
Thankee all!

-s
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2007, 12:25:40 PM
And MC-1, post-Apocalypse, according to Gibson:

Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 24 October, 2007, 12:38:54 PM
I'm sure I've seen a 420 million, but I couldn't say when or what story.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: IndigoPrime on 24 October, 2007, 12:49:05 PM
400 million after the Apocalypse War, as has already been said, but Death wiped out 60 million in Necropolis, and large as MC-1 is, I doubt that figure would have been replenished significantly yet, especially when the various other disasters are taken into account. I'd guess around 350-360 at the mo'. I wonder what Wagner thinks (or if he even cares about such things).
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2007, 12:50:50 PM
It might be the last panel of Twilight's Last Gleaming, from prog 756.

IIRC, Dredd is sitting astride his lawmaster, looking out over the city - and that's one of the times he gives his "a city of x million people, each one a potential perp, but grud help me, I love it" speech.

This is a job for Logan & His Magic Scanner.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 24 October, 2007, 01:02:46 PM
Just checked in my copy of 'Democracy Now!'. That panel is a quote from 2100 giving the population as 800 million.

Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dudley on 24 October, 2007, 01:42:21 PM
Just realised that MC-1 must have a population mostly aged under 30.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2007, 02:02:32 PM
::"Mega-City One, a megalopolis of over 400 million people across the east coast of the United States, features in the Judge Dredd comic, serialised in 2000 AD."

From "megacity" on wikipedia.

---

Assuming a population growth rate of 2%, post-Apocalypse, you've got 400 million, with 8 million being added each year from then until Necropolis.

That's approx. 400 + 64 = 464.

Necropolis then kills off 60 million, so we're back to 400-ish, and assumed growth up to this year would be:

400 + 136 = 536 million

However, as was said, there's Judgement Day - there must have been a high death toll, there - Total War nuked out a few sectors.  Did Sin City's infection spread to the city?  I thought it was contained?  

We're looking for about 100 million deaths to get it to 400, 420.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: badboy on 24 October, 2007, 03:50:51 PM
I'm fascinated at how interested I am on facts like these, good work guys! So around 500 mil then?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 24 October, 2007, 04:29:42 PM
Sin City's infection did not spread to MC1, however, in Dredd's words it killed eight or nine hundred thousand. It's not clear how many were MC1 citizens or how many of these were Sin City staff.

Also, 2% population growth is a bit steep for a developed country. Current population growth in the US is 0.894% (CIA Worldbook 2007)

Plus, there's the Anderson story where all the juves were led out into the Cursed Earth. 20% of the US population is under 14, so if we lose, say, half of those, 10% of 400 million is another 40 million gone.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 24 October, 2007, 04:35:53 PM
420 million was from 'Bob's Law'. Judge Barrett says the Sector Relocation Allowance will cost ¢42 billion. At 100 credits each.

So much has happened since then to render that figure useless.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 24 October, 2007, 04:37:38 PM
Pardon the impertinence for trampling all over your space-maths, guv'nors, but isn't there a population count in the little box what introduces this week's stories in the inside cover of the prog?


If not, there should be. In a BSG-style, accurate to the man, updating every week manner.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2007, 04:44:44 PM
All I was really saying (in my head, at any rate) is that the figure "400 million" is probably fairly good.

We could argue our way up or down from that by a hundred million or more without having any facts to base our assumptions on, and both still be right, or wrong, and in equal measure.

---
Alan Grant is obsessed with city-shattering events that every other Dredd writer completely ignores - the children all getting taken away, the Sisters of Death causing a city-wide plague and mass destruction - and now a whole sector of sentient blocks sitting in the cursed earth being guarded by a Kong robot having driven a path of destruction through the entire city.

I just don't see any of these events as meaning anything - it's like they happen in an alternate Dredd universe.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: mogzilla on 24 October, 2007, 04:44:56 PM
how many judges are there?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2007, 04:46:40 PM
Thanks, Fegbarr - you're quite right - it says "home to 400 million citizens".

Case closed.

I enjoyed it while it lasted.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 24 October, 2007, 04:48:35 PM
I'm not a huge fan of recent Grant, but I do rather like the idea of the satellite city of sentient blocks guarded by Krong.. it's suitably insane.    
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2007, 04:52:13 PM
Aye - it's not like I hate all his ideas - but they just don't seem real, because you read the weekly and they're having no effect on the rest of the city - even though, often, they're city-shattering events.

I know cross-overs are frowned upon, but does that mean we have to live with ignore-overs instead?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: IndigoPrime on 24 October, 2007, 05:10:30 PM
I don't know the answer to that, although I suspect hundreds of thousands. However, anyone remember that old annual story that had a meeting of ALL of the Judges of MC-1, in a fairly small room (and where a whole bunch of them got shot)? Funny to see how little a handle the comic had on the sheer scale of Dredd back in the old days!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: mogzilla on 24 October, 2007, 05:12:28 PM
i think it would be nice for tharg to fill us in as after every disaster were they are seriously undermanned i never notice.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Buttonman on 24 October, 2007, 07:31:44 PM
In a Daily Star Dredd where he kicked ass, a judge says 'Who needs the other 59,000 of us?' - so the number of Judges at that point was 59,001. A strange figure but maybe they thought 'Who needs the other 59,999 of us' would look daft in a speech bubble.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2007, 07:42:02 PM
In The Pit (prog 970) the full compliment of judges in Sector House 301 is given as 300.

305 sectors (from Bob's Law, prog 355) gives us a (very rough) approximation of 91,500 judges.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2007, 07:48:35 PM
If we round that up a bit (y'know, because of the Academy of Law, Circuit Judges, Iso-Wardens, that sort of thing) to 100,000 (and ignore the fact that some sectors will be 'dust zones and so on, that would make it 8000 cits per Judge.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Ignatzmonster on 24 October, 2007, 07:51:14 PM
Don't forget the nukes in Total War. Had to have knocked off a measly 50 million or so.

Ignatzmonster: friend of the accountant.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Wils on 24 October, 2007, 07:52:54 PM
approximation of 91,500 judges

That's a pretty good rise in numbers from the grand total of 5 judges that Mega-City 1 had as seen in the 1978 annual.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 24 October, 2007, 07:59:29 PM
Does that figure of 91,500 include all the auxillary staff as well.



V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 24 October, 2007, 08:01:31 PM
::"Does that figure of 91,500 include all the auxillary staff as well."

Fucked if I know.  All I did was multiply 300 by 305.  Wagner could waltz along in the next prog and say it's 2000, and who would I be to argue?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Wils on 24 October, 2007, 08:05:55 PM
I would've thought auxillary staff would be non-judges who have posts within Justic Dept, although I'm sure the likes of Judge Tabbard from Tea Div would be included in that number.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 24 October, 2007, 08:13:58 PM
Hmm, interesting. Coming at from another direction, we were recently discussing the '8000 blocks' figure (based on 400mil citizens at 50,000 a block, a measly 50-or-so blocks to a Sector), and how at a mimimum of one judge per block, you ended up with say 10,000 street judges.  I suggested suport staff (including pilots, teks, wardens, wallies, meds, admin, tutors, PSU, psis, various specialists) should be 10 times that number, giving us 100,000 by another route.  

Neat, but even allowing that many 'specialists' are concentrated in Justice Central and the Academy, that means that 301's sector house has only only 40-odd street judges at any one time.  Oddly, this seems close enough to the number of faces we see in The Pit, and in Sector House, but still seems pretty tight.

Incidentally, the same figures suggets 500 successful graduations from the Academy each year to keep the numbers up, assuming a 20 year average career.



Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 24 October, 2007, 10:39:38 PM
assuming a 20 year average career.

That long? I would guess that the average helmet would last 15 years at most before getting 99ed.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: El Spurioso on 24 October, 2007, 10:55:37 PM
Um.

I feel sort of guilty, here.  Guys... thanks very much and all, but... really: it was just for a little throwaway dialogue mention.

You can all stop thinking about it now.

[backing slowly away]
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: House of Usher on 25 October, 2007, 12:01:47 AM
Heh. And my first impulse was to post something to the effect of "Mr Spurrier, you have no shame", but it turns out I was wrong after all!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Ignatzmonster on 25 October, 2007, 02:05:48 AM
THere are no brakes on the hivemind once it gets rolling.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 October, 2007, 08:59:58 AM
We moved on from the population question ages ago - now we're onto how many Judges there might reasonably be.  We've hijacked the thread.

Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 25 October, 2007, 10:08:47 AM
But the judges make up part of the city population so in theory we are still discussing the population count.



V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 25 October, 2007, 10:26:48 AM
As fegbarr points out, the box in the prog says 400 million and all it would need to keep that figure static is about 10 million cits being offed every 3 years, which Alan Grant tends to take care of.

At the end of the day, the population of MC1 is whatever John Wagner says it is.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Rob Spalding on 25 October, 2007, 11:44:40 AM
At the end of the day, the population of MC1 is whatever John Wagner says it is.

Ya hear that Spurrier!
Whateva Wagner says it is!

Plus, what proportion of Judges are street Judges vs PSI/Wally Squad/administrators/PSU ?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 25 October, 2007, 01:15:40 PM
I seem to recall a bit of dialogue mentioning that Psi-Div was far and away the smallest of the divisions, with about 1000 members. Going by this, a figure of ten street badges to one psi seems a bit low to me. I'd have to guess Street-Div at somewhere between 20 - 30000.

That's me with my totally made up bollocks-maths, obviously.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 25 October, 2007, 01:30:46 PM
a figure of ten street badges to one psi seems a bit low to me

Does it, though?  It's pretty obvious that Psi Div let's any old hippy fruitcake in (and out, and in again), so that they can milk/control their talent (Exhibit A:  J'Anus; Exhibit B:  Corey; Closing Argument:  Anderson).  It just can't be as restrictive as the Academy generally is - if you've got talent, and aren't a complete psycho or liability (Additional Evidence:  Juliet November).  I'd guess maybe half of all the useable Psis in teh city get a badge (that's 2000 psis out of a population of 400,000,000 - pretty small numbers anyway).  After all, they're the only genetic mutants on the payroll...

Gawd but geekery is a good way to pass a morning.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: mogzilla on 25 October, 2007, 01:33:43 PM
"they'rethe only genetic mutants on the payroll"

i'd never thought of that! when the mutant question pops up again have a word in dredd's shell like i'd like to see the council answer that!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 25 October, 2007, 01:34:02 PM
Aside from apologies for wandering aposrophes, I'd like to add:  and at only 1% of Justice Dept personnel, that seems about right.  A better question might be how many of Psi Div are also rated fro teh streets.  Seems like a good number of that 1000 are going to be sitting in a booth, plugged into something or floating in a pool somewhere.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 25 October, 2007, 01:39:16 PM
Point well made; assuming that the ratio of street-to-ancilliary is the same for Psi as normos, the figures do add up.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 October, 2007, 03:15:47 PM
::"Just realised that MC-1 must have a population mostly aged under 30."

Why?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dudley on 25 October, 2007, 03:28:35 PM
Loads of wars and plagues in the city itself would tend to kill off eldsters in disproportionate numbers.  Ditto high crime rate, radiation poisoning, high suicide rate.

Equally, there is an established correlation between unemployment and fecundity (you screw cos there's naff-all else to do).  With good social security and robots doing most of the work, meaning no economic factors impinging on birth control, families would probably swell in number to an average of, say, 4-5 children per couple.  Add the absence of religious factors to the general breakdown in morality in the post-apocalyptic population, and you are also likely to have a high number of single-parent families - in other words, lots of single men spreading seed in as wide an area as possible.

All of which suggests an extremely youthful population.  Real-life present day examples of similar situations include Iran and Brazil, both of which have populations mostly born after 1980.  

It also seems reasonable to posit that this young population is the reason fashions and fads spread so rapidly in Mega-City One.  

Speculation of the ways in which living in a youthful city might affect senior members of the judicial forces will have to remain just that, speculation.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: House of Usher on 25 October, 2007, 05:04:44 PM
re: speculation

You can assume high fecundity if you're also assuming 20th century birth control and no innovations in contraception over a 120-year period.

High suicide rate - well, at the moment it's highest among young single men. I presume you're speculating that in 2128 it'll be highest among the over 50s?

High crime rate - are we speculating that eldsters who never leave their homes are more at risk of crime than bored juveys involved in street gangs?

As for war, I didn't think thermonuclear warheads discriminate on the basis of age, so wouldn't change the city's demographics a great deal.

I seem to remember there used to be much made of the longevity of Mega-Citizens on the basis of advances in medicine, including therapies, prosthetics and devices.

I presume the extremely youthful populations of Iran and Brazil are not entirely down to good social security and robots doing most of the work?

"It also seems reasonable to posit that this young population is the reason fashions and fads spread so rapidly in Mega-City One."

No it isn't. Fads and fashions might just as easily spread rapidly in Mega-City One because of the large number of bored citizens needing something to do to inject novelty into their long, tedious life spans. Ugly spread among the megapolitan fashionable set before it caught on with juves. Tabitha Sparks weren't no juvey! Marlon Shalespeare's parents were middle aged hobbyists - a sitter and a bat glider.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 October, 2007, 05:09:31 PM
I thought his mum dirtied and washed dishes and his father headed eggs into pans.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: House of Usher on 25 October, 2007, 05:09:46 PM
"Just realised that MC-1 must have a population mostly aged under 30."

No, you're thinking of Logan's Run.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 25 October, 2007, 05:17:46 PM
Interesting points Dudley, however your examples would probably work better for a less developed state/city like Cuidad Barranquila or Andes Conurb say.

Won't disagree with your connection between unemployment and fecundity, however we know birth control exists in MC1 (no serious religious opposition) and I can't see benefits in MC1 being so generous as to make having loads of kids an option.

Half way down the link underneath are some population pyramids showing patterns of population change in countries of different development status (Warning: black text on a red background does not make for good reading). As the population of MC1 has been pretty static for about 20 years now, we can use the middle graph (Slow Growth) as our model. By coincidence, the example is for the US.

Using the model, we see that the percentage of under 30's in MC1 would be around 24% (less if we include that Anderson tale which would knock out a big chunk of the 15-24 demographic).

A less developed state's population pyramid is seen on the left. This would fit with Dudley's theory.

Starting to take this a bit too serious now. Bet Si's wishing he never started this thread ;)

Link: Population Pyramids

Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: House of Usher on 25 October, 2007, 05:33:03 PM
"I thought his mum dirtied and washed dishes and his father headed eggs into pans."

Oh yes! Can't remember who the sitter was, or if she was married to a bat glider. Anyway, the point is that in the Meg, fads have never been confined to the younger generation. Graffiti, yes, but that's a crime. Ugly, bat gliding, kneepads, simping, no.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 25 October, 2007, 05:33:56 PM
Marlon Shalespeare's parents were middle aged hobbyists - a sitter and a bat glider.

That was Citzen Snork's parents.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 25 October, 2007, 05:46:49 PM
Dammit! Only counted one side of the pyramid!

So we are looking at a percentage population under 30 of about 44-48%, whereas the other example for a less developed country/state/city is more like 70%.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 October, 2007, 07:27:44 PM
Italics off?

I suppose knowing Marlon's parents' hobbies is quite sad.  Oh well.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 October, 2007, 07:28:31 PM
Italicsoff?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: House of Usher on 25 October, 2007, 07:30:11 PM
They're off, at least from where I'm sitting.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 October, 2007, 07:33:08 PM
It's more difficult to switch them off in Firefox (and therefore probably Safari, Opera, Konq et al).  IE switches them off itself. It's to do with ... zzzzzz ... (sorry - forgot to leave work at work for a moment there).
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: House of Usher on 25 October, 2007, 08:57:25 PM
Oh, and the point about radiation poisoning is spurious as well. For one thing, in Judge Dredd they have 22nd century technologies to deal with radiation and poisoning - 'anti-rad pills' for one (whatever they are).

Furthermore, in the real world one sees a lot of documentaries about old people in former Soviet republics ekeing out a living (rather than dying off) in poisoned towns abandoned by the young, and also a lot of children dying from radiation-induced birth defects; and one suspects rates of infertility and still birth must be quite high in heavily irradiated areas, which would tend to shift the age demographic in the upward direction.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 25 October, 2007, 09:53:03 PM
That, and the fact that eldsters live up to 130, and who knows how long folk'll be fertile by 2129.  That's got to affect your demographic profile.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 26 October, 2007, 10:06:10 AM
I love this thread so much I wish I could marry it.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dudley on 26 October, 2007, 10:16:02 AM
The suggestion regarding better contraception is a good one, but you're ignoring the ever-present stench of death that hangs over MC1.  Fom Apocalypse War to Necropolis to the everyday high risk of violent death, the normal citizen should be traumatised beyond belief.  The normal human reaction to trauma followed by calm is to bonk like bunnies, and no to care about such things as contraception.  In the case of people who have lost children or loved ones, the urge to procreate is often very strong.  This is why Iran seems the best comparison to me.  I've heard (but can't now source) that the birthrate in Iraq is currently soaring.  Another comparison might be with the post-war years in US and Europe, where even though times were hard the Baby Boom occurred.

Although you are correct that thermonuclear warheads and plagues don't discriminate on grounds of age, the point is that only the youngest demographic is constantly being replenished: take a chunk out of any other demographic and it remains permanently depleted, while the young uns just keep on coming.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 26 October, 2007, 11:37:12 AM
Although you are correct that thermonuclear warheads and plagues don't discriminate on grounds of age, the point is that only the youngest demographic is constantly being replenished: take a chunk out of any other demographic and it remains permanently depleted, while the young uns just keep on coming.

True, but factor in migration and you'll still be topping up the 15-45 demographic. MC1 might not be a great place to live, but it's probably better than say, Pan Andes Conurb or Bruja.

Also, given the number of nuclear incidents that have occurred in MC1/USA (Booth's war, the Apocalypse, Total War etc.) this is going to increase the number of birth defects and the infant mortality rate. And we all know what happens to mutants (at the moment).

Post-Chernobyl Belarus saw rates of birth defects rise to 5.5% with infant mortality of 2.5%. That's a 1 in 12 chance a child won't make it. The fear of having deformed children also reduced the birth rate. With multiple nuclear incidents, these figures could be much higher.

Plus, low levels of employment can lead to high levels of crime. Not much procreating taking place in the cubes.

Also, it would be very Dredd to have someone arrested for wasting city resources if they had loads of kids they couldn't support independently.

Finally, back to the demographics and population pyramids. I found a US census projection for 2050 where they have estimated a potential population of 420 million (not far off our figure of 400 million for MC1). We're looking at about 40% population under 30 and about 20% over 65. That's a lot of eldsters to keep in pan drops.

And fegbarr, I saw this thread before you ;)Photo Sharing and Video Hosting at Photobucket">
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 October, 2007, 11:41:45 AM
::"Not much procreating taking place in the cubes."

400,000,000 cits
100,000 judges

How many in the cubes?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Large48 on 26 October, 2007, 11:54:39 AM
Helter Skelter quotes half a billion
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dudley on 26 October, 2007, 11:55:27 AM
I'm not so sure that immigration is a factor here.  Remember, we're not talking about the present day US or UK, where borders too large to be guarded exist.  We're talking about a walled city, albeit a Mega-City, with thousands of guards on duty plus machine guns with automatic targeting systems (see that Christmas tale about Ebeneezer McScrooge).  Plus a thousand miles of irradiated desert surrounding it, terrain so tough that it almost destroyed Judge Dredd.

We've seen from various stories (e.g. the first Waugh/Dredd crossover) that there's tight immigration control.  In a city where almost everyone is unemployed already, the barriers to immigration must be set very high.

In a world with anti-rad pills, as Usher has pointed out, birth defects from radiation poisoning would also be wiped out, except in the still relatively rare cases of mutation, which are ruthlessly expelled from the city.

It would definitely be very Dredd to have someone arrested for wasting city resources if they had loads of kids they couldn't support - but this is a city where the roboticisation of labour has produced a world in which such a situation isn't really possible.  There's a great welfare state in MC1, and since beyond food virtually every need a child might have could be taken care of by automated nurseries and robot teachers it's much less likely the the fckless citizen will actually have to deal with the consequences of their lack of foresight.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 26 October, 2007, 11:55:38 AM
Good question. I don't think it's ever been mentioned in 2000ad or the Meg.

Current US prison population is 2.2 million for a country of 301.1 million.

Factor that up and we can speculate about 2.9-3 million for MC1.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 26 October, 2007, 11:59:55 AM
Half a billion?

That's everyone and a bit more isn't it?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 October, 2007, 12:04:16 PM
Yeah - I think he's saying Helter Skelter quoted the population of MC-1 at half a bill.  

But then, Helter Skelter had Ace Garp in it, so...  

Pinch of salt all round.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 October, 2007, 12:11:55 PM
At 50000 cits / block, how did you end up with 50 blocks per sector?  It's more like 26 on straight arithmetic.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 26 October, 2007, 12:23:54 PM
Based on, I believe, the post Apocalypse War sector renumbering. Logan'll be along in a minute with the map.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 October, 2007, 12:42:15 PM
Sector renumbering gives 305 sectors.

800 mill cits at 50 thou per block, gives 16000 blocks, which is 52 per sector.

Oh.

How the hell did I end up with 26 last time I did that?

Look - over there - it's a three-headed monkey!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 26 October, 2007, 03:52:48 PM
Okay Dudley, I just had to check the figures in the progs.

I'll concede a baby boom after the Apocalypse war. There are 400 million citizens after the war and two years later there are the 420 million implied in 'Bob's Law'. The model for slow growth would predict 407-8 million under normal conditions so we have an extra 12-3 million kids.

However, whether by accident or design, 15 million children were killed/removed in Anderson's 'Crusade' some 13 years later. There go the baby boomers and a potential massive population increase.

How many died in Necropolis? Was it 30 million? A city the size of MC1 would get those back within 8-9 years at 0.9% growth per year.

No, the problems we have with both theories is that the population is always given as 400 million. No growth. There's no continued population explosion to support your massive increase in the ratio of juves and even my figures require 3-4 million citizens to disappear every year.

Let's leave it to the scriptwriters. Let them sort out if MC1 is a young dynamic city or if it's stymied by coffin dodgers.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 26 October, 2007, 04:04:08 PM
Wow - pose a geek a question and they'll just run and run with it. I love you guys.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 26 October, 2007, 04:15:12 PM
Heh, yeah. First time I've used my Geography 'A' level in 18 years.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Richmond Clements on 26 October, 2007, 04:17:28 PM
This thread horrifies and delights and attracts and repels me in equal measure.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Cthulouis on 26 October, 2007, 04:38:21 PM
When people speak of the citizens, do they just mean the humans?

What about things like the monkeys and alien town?

Talking of aliens, how much immigration does MC1 allow?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Proudhuff on 26 October, 2007, 04:46:32 PM
And Muties if Old Stoney-pus has his way,

Was there a body count for Total War's carryoots?

Beancounter Huff
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 October, 2007, 04:51:17 PM
::"There are 400 million citizens after the war and two years later there are the 420 million implied in 'Bob's Law'."

But you've got to take 400 million as being an approximation - of maybe 10s of millions.  If it was 440 million, the script would still sound better at 400 million.

So, the more accurate 420 million from Bob's Law doesn't necessarily indicate a specific increase of 20 million in two years.

(And Necropolis was 60 million dead.)
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dudley on 26 October, 2007, 05:01:24 PM
I have to admit to hoping you wouldn't bring up the subject of Crusade.  My reason for not factoring it in is that it's an Alan Grant script, and those never seem to be taken as canon by anybody (including Alan Grant).

Anybody know how many died in Judgement Day, Inferno, Doomsday, etc?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 26 October, 2007, 05:02:42 PM
Dont mention the meat virus abd its death toll.



V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dudley on 26 October, 2007, 05:14:28 PM
MONKEYS!  You're a genius, Cthulouis!  

Monkeys, of course, have high breeding rates and lower life expectancy than humans, again skewing the demographic and demonstrating why it's dangerous to extrapolate from present-day demographic studies.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 26 October, 2007, 05:20:32 PM
On the subject, how many people were eaten by the Klegg in Meatmonger? I seem to recall a not insignificant bit of the population going out that way, too.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 October, 2007, 05:45:08 PM
Inferno?

Sorry, I don't understand.

Anyway - I can dismiss Grant's strange tales far more easily than I can something like Ennis's Judgement Day (only because his world-shattering effects seem to have become a part of the accepted history).  My personal canon-ometer probably goes something like this:

Wagner
Rennie / Spurrier
Ennis
Alan Grant
Robbie Morrison
Absolutely anyone else including Sc*j*
Grant Morrison
Single-cell lifeforms
Mark Millar
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 October, 2007, 07:23:27 PM
::"Was there a body count for Total War's carryoots?"

I estimate 2 million.

In Sector 4 Central the Boing Bowl Nuke killed 30,000 inside the stadium and an undefined number surrounding it.

In Sector 276 North the Ezra Pound Block Nuke (10 times the size of Boing Bowl) killed 900,000.

Then the last nuke, in Sector 2, went off, but no numbers were given.  Assuming a similar size to the Sector 276 one, it's not unreasonable to get to the 2 mill total.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: worldshown on 26 October, 2007, 07:40:16 PM
Dammit! All those statistics undone by the monkeys!

How many of them are wear hats though?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: badboy on 27 October, 2007, 08:22:15 AM
Never underestimate how long a bunch of geeks in one place can carry on 100's of answers to a throwaway question! ;)
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: El Spurioso on 27 October, 2007, 11:19:24 AM
Listen, all of you:  

If your girlfriends/wives/friends/dependents/children/parents/bosses/colleagues/anyone ever accuse you of a) being terrifyingly obsessive, b) standing them up in favour of punching made-up numbers into a calculator, or c) failing to do Homely Task X because you were too busy estimating Sentient Monkey Population Growth...

...It's NOT my fault.  I'm blameless!  I resign from all responsibility regarding this thread.  You hear me, god?  BLAMELESS!  
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Wils on 27 October, 2007, 11:33:04 AM
There are, of course, far worse things that you *are* to blame for, though.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Robin Low on 27 October, 2007, 12:39:22 PM
While in theory this is the sort of thing I like to get involved in, I think taking 400 million as an ongoing average makes more sense than anything else. Just say the periodic disasters balance the high population growth. Best leave it at that.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Proudhuff on 27 October, 2007, 01:42:32 PM
Where's Buttonman and his spreadsheets when you need him?
He could probably do you a nice rolling totaliser in the stlye of the letterpage monolith, with a fringe meeting at the next comic con. Or  perhaps we should ask Ernie or bernie or whatever the central compter used to be called. Whatever happen to him?/it anyway?

cencushuff

Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: I, Cosh on 27 October, 2007, 02:04:06 PM
...It's NOT my fault. I'm blameless! I resign from all responsibility regarding this thread. You hear me, god? BLAMELESS!

You say that now Spurrier but, when all this turns up in a forthcoming Dredd episode, I hope you're going to be splitting your piles of filthy lucre with Funt, Dudley, et al...
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: scutfink on 27 October, 2007, 04:24:08 PM
Thanks Si, biggest spontanious laugh I've had in months...

:)

BTW would the genetic tampering that effected the Monkeys intelligence also effect their life expectancy/ breeding habits, probably not, but the boosted intelligence does seem to have them living in family units more closely approximate to Humans (more of a psychological knock on effect maybe.)

Also, are they not, for the most part, Apes, rather than monkeys
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Trout on 29 October, 2007, 12:15:23 AM
My eyes are bleeding.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Floyd-the-k on 29 October, 2007, 06:45:31 AM
what percentage of the ape/monkey population are wearing hats (including those who choose to wear Fezzes, like Tom Waits backing band)?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Steve Green on 29 October, 2007, 07:57:05 AM
This is *still* going on?

Blimey.

What about Gribligs?
(Runs awasy)
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 29 October, 2007, 08:03:33 AM
I'm tempted to trawl my back progs to determine best estimates for all the massive death sagas that have hit MC-1, and then create a spreadsheet with that data, to determine MC-1s population growth over the last 30 years.

But I'm resisting that urge.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dudley on 29 October, 2007, 09:13:46 AM
The thing is, you don't just want the mega-epics: sometimes there are even one-offs with massive loss of life.  For example, there was a story with a block collapsing a while back, which made the point that it was a normal event in MC-1 and had some slightly heavy-handed parallels with 9/11.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 29 October, 2007, 09:17:24 AM
I know Bob Oppenheimer Block got nuked twice - once by Captain Skank, and then again, as it was being rebuilt, in the opening salvo of the Apocalypse War - but did it ever get nuked a third time in a one-off, or am I just imagining that?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: scutfink on 29 October, 2007, 07:36:50 PM
What about Gribligs?

I know they're at least semi-sentient, but the're not exaclty citizens are they, more like clever vermin?

Are we going to count all Adrian Cockroach's freinds and relations?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Steve Green on 29 October, 2007, 08:31:18 PM
Maybe that's Dredd's next cause after the mutants :)

- Steve
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 29 October, 2007, 09:04:12 PM
Are we going to count all Adrian Cockroach's freinds and relations?

Heh.  I'd completely forgotten that story, great dsgusting art!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: I, Cosh on 29 October, 2007, 09:18:50 PM
Jesus! Five pages and nobody's thought to take the inhabitants of the Undercity into account. What's wrong with you people?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: mogzilla on 29 October, 2007, 09:22:26 PM
"it's not my fault"


best four year old voice"but he started it!"
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: scutfink on 30 October, 2007, 11:54:51 PM
Jesus! Five pages and nobody's thought to take the inhabitants of the Undercity into account. What's wrong with you people?

The undercity, was concreted over, the clue's in the name, therefore it lies outside the borders of the city so none of it's inhabitants can count towards the Megs population, obviously.

(I'm starting to enjoy this now, is that wrong?)
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 31 October, 2007, 02:21:54 PM
HEH. this thread is dynamite.

What about extra entities like the 2 gods hovering over the city granting citizens godly powers for bets.




V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: House of Usher on 31 October, 2007, 02:53:00 PM
Well, that brings the population up to 400 million and 2 then.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 31 October, 2007, 03:26:15 PM
Where does the figure of 50,000 per block come from?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: W. R. Logan on 31 October, 2007, 04:58:37 PM
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dudley on 31 October, 2007, 06:17:10 PM
The undercity, was concreted over, the clue's in the name, therefore it lies outside the borders of the city so none of it's inhabitants can count towards the Megs population, obviously

By that rationale, you wouldn't count the favelas of Rio or the shanty towns of Soweto - a somewhat politically dubious approach, don't you think?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 31 October, 2007, 06:40:12 PM
Presumably anyone who gets lost down there is Persona non grata as it would be too much of a hassle to look down there. Maybe once a month they give some of the rookies a mobile with a torch and tell them to wander around for half an hour to see if anything shows up.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: House of Usher on 31 October, 2007, 07:35:33 PM
a somewhat politically dubious approach, don't you think?

A somewhat priggish reply, don't you think?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: scutfink on 31 October, 2007, 08:16:49 PM
Now, maybe I'm a little out of touch, but I dont recall there being a Big-ass Concrete wall built by mutant slave labour dotted with hectic gun emplacements between Rio and the favelas (Although it may not be that far off) MC1 has some pretty clearly defined, heavily policed, borders is all I'm saying.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dudley on 01 November, 2007, 01:28:20 PM
Don't be a twit, Usher.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 01 November, 2007, 01:44:06 PM
I think it's safe to discount the denizens of the undercity as non-citizens, on the basis that we feel like it, and this is all space-maths anyway.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 01 November, 2007, 02:19:12 PM
Since MC-1 is under Judicial control (with some sops to civic governance, like Mayor Maybe (mmm, feels good typing that!)), we can assume that anywhere that 'retired' (and sometimes disgraced) judges take their Long Walk to is technically outside its borders - and that includes the Undercity.  No-one ever takes the Long Walk to the Sector 23 Rad-Crater.  
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 01 November, 2007, 02:33:12 PM
It's another interesting point.  There's the whole "bringing law unto the lawless" business, but then there are MC-1 facilities in the Cursed Earth, such as work farms.  Plus, there are circuit Judges (isn't Koburn a sort-of permanent circuit judge?) and those Cursed Earth Rangers that have been fighting the Mutie Army.  Then there are off-world MC-1 concerns.

Still, that's a sort of political population, rather than the population of the city itself.  

Oh - should we be counting any remaining Condo satellites?  
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 02 November, 2007, 09:21:44 AM
Oh - should we be counting any remaining Condo satellites?

Only if they're the type that don't suddenly leap from geostationary orbit right to the effin' Sun in a few minutes because their stabilising thrusters are on the blink - updating the total would be too time-consuming.   Building near-light speed capabilty into orbital correction thrusters is a pretty big design flaw, even leaving aside the shoddy materials...
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 05 November, 2007, 07:39:30 AM
Walter the wobot was given citizenship, and there must have been more, though not written into the prog as he couldnt have been unique, so you could throw that one into the equasion.




V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: scutfink on 05 November, 2007, 01:06:17 PM
I thought walter was given Citezenship as a reward for the aid he gave Dredd during the robot rebellion. I don't rember any other robots doing that. Are you suggesting the less popular Judges, who don't have a weekly comic strip, recieved similar aid from droids with 'humourous' speech impediments?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: El Spurioso on 05 November, 2007, 01:29:46 PM
PEOPLE

Put the keyboard down and step AWAY from the thread.

Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 05 November, 2007, 02:24:46 PM
::"Are you suggesting the less popular Judges, who don't have a weekly comic strip, recieved similar aid from droids with 'humourous' speech impediments?"

Another tea-coated keyboard moment.

I hope Spurrier realises that we want this all cleared up in his next story.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: El Spurioso on 05 November, 2007, 02:52:17 PM
I sent off the script in question (including a one-line dialogue balloon containing the number "40-million") approximately half an hour after the thread began.



12 days and a hundred posts later...
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Rio De Fideldo on 05 November, 2007, 03:38:23 PM
I sent off the script in question (including a one-line dialogue balloon containing the number "40-million")

What happened to the other approx 360 million cits? Is this Judgement Day 2 you're writing?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 05 November, 2007, 03:47:13 PM
So...when's Domino coming back?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: El Spurioso on 05 November, 2007, 03:53:35 PM
"What happened to the other approx 360 million cits? Is this Judgement Day 2 you're writing?"

Gah - obviously I meant 400 million.

EJECT EJECT EJECT
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 05 November, 2007, 04:05:45 PM
Spurrier - there's a lesson to be learned here.

DO NOT FEED THE GEEKS.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 05 November, 2007, 07:50:17 PM
Dunno how I've missed it, but I've only just found this thread.

Anyway, yer maths and "per block" calculations fail to take into account those living in mopads. From memory, most of MC1s traffic is made up of mopads.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 06 November, 2007, 03:10:22 AM
Oooh, good one, Dr. X!

Poor Spurrier, when will you realise that your initial post was but a grain of sand in the moist oyster of geekdom, and this thread is the pearl.

(Note:  I am aware that the grain-of-sand bit is an old wives tale)  
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Proudhuff on 06 November, 2007, 10:57:06 AM
Undercity? does that count?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 06 November, 2007, 01:34:48 PM
So what we need is an estimate of how much traffic there is knocking about, say, the average sector, and then someone can do some extrapolative space-maths.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Cthulouis on 06 November, 2007, 06:27:41 PM
Many Mo-pads may in fact be empty, as tis well known that if you hit one, kill its inhabitants, then nick all their stuff, you can set the Mo-pad on automatic and your crime will go unnoticed for years.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Tweak72 on 07 November, 2007, 08:09:37 AM
"What percentage of the ape/monkey population are wearing hats"

None as I thought that Monkey town had been massively irradiated during the Apocalypse War and all its inhabitants including the gangster apes had been mutated in to savages and then put down by Dredd (an annual. year unknown. drawn by Gibson) and any others would have died off due to the rad count by now any way
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 07 November, 2007, 09:09:42 AM
So, that means that DeMarco must be hallucinating on Angel Town narcotics pretty much constantly, then.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Tweak72 on 07 November, 2007, 10:21:16 AM
Isnâ??t her Simian side Kick from Brit Cit?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Floyd-the-k on 07 November, 2007, 10:59:18 AM
Dredd probably missed a few. some of whom wear hats.

  I can never remember how many people are supposed to be in MC1, so I'll settle for 'oodles' in whatever it is that the talented Mr Spurrier mailed off at about post number five of this thread. 'lots' would be fine too
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Richmond Clements on 07 November, 2007, 11:19:34 AM
So, that means that DeMarco must be hallucinating on Angel Town narcotics pretty much constantly, then.


See? It's Spurrier causing all this confusion!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Tweak72 on 07 November, 2007, 11:46:28 AM
So at a Guesstimate itâ??s between 350 to 420 Millions Cits but what I want to know is...

... How many Judges are there within MC1? How many deputised local Mutie Judges are there in the cursed Earth? And what are the Numbers of the Star Judges in the colonies, judging how many colonial Cits and how many Judge Troops are there in the Corps.?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 07 November, 2007, 01:43:20 PM
Sounds like somebody is overly curious about the strength and disposition of Judicial forces...  Remain in your hab, Citizen Tweak, units will be there momentarily to assist you.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Tweak72 on 07 November, 2007, 02:24:01 PM
Stinking Judital capitaist, imperialist running dog, pig dog, dog pig pig, pig dog pig Megger! We East Meg Judges almost beat you once we can almost beat you again!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Tweak72 on 07 November, 2007, 02:25:59 PM
Spell checked version:

Stinking Judicial capitalist, imperialist running dog, pig dog, dog pig pig, pig dog pig Megger! We East Meg Judges almost beat you once we can almost beat you again!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 07 November, 2007, 09:31:00 PM
You also have Judges and cits on Lunar 1.




V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 07 November, 2007, 09:34:42 PM
::"You also have Judges and cits on Lunar 1."

Ahar - but we're only discussing the population of Mega-City One.  Well, I think so, anyway.  It's veered off into Griblings, the Undercity, the Cursed Earth and so on.

I know everyone's just having a laugh, but I'm quite curious about the mopad population now...

I'm sure some careless writer must've named a figure at some point.  It's just a case of finding it.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: scutfink on 07 November, 2007, 09:35:23 PM
Judges and Cits on Lunar 1 are citizens of Lunar 1 (Isn't it about time they had a revolution?).

We have to be firm on these borders if we're going to calculate any realistic estimate.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 07 November, 2007, 09:49:32 PM
Yes, realism is of vital importance in the field of Space Maths.  To that end, prog 131 tells us:

"Over eighteen million people were forced to live in mobile homes - mo-pads"

So, we can immediately discount the half that came to a nuclear end during the war, for about nine million mo-padders.  (Of course, I've taken full and completely imaginary account of population growth rates, and other high death count city-wide disasters.)

That leaves about 391,000,000 in blocks of an average capacity of 60,000, for 651 blocks, at an average of 21 stratoscraper blocks per sector.

So there!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Ignatzmonster on 07 November, 2007, 10:05:09 PM
This thread rocks the house. Trekkies are gutless pussies compared to Thargs minions..
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 07 November, 2007, 10:17:25 PM
In the story where a city block declared independence IIRC there was about 30,000 in that block.



V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 09 November, 2007, 11:33:33 PM
Here's one for ya.

Megazine vol 3 No 6.

The Dredd introduction "Mega-City one is hoem to 400 million citizens".

The Anderson story SATAN "Do my bidding and I will spare those five hundred million lives"

How can one issue be 100 million out?




V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Hoagy on 10 November, 2007, 02:30:42 AM
400million citizens- if 20% are reproductively proactive I reckon you could get 1000 million births in 1 month no problem.

There has to be a way of working out the birth/death/mortality rate via old school humanities compass.

Population density per km?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Hoagy on 10 November, 2007, 02:31:04 AM
400million citizens- if 20% are reproductively proactive I reckon you could get 100 million births in 1 month no problem.

There has to be a way of working out the birth/death/mortality rate via old school humanities compass.

Population density per km?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Floyd-the-k on 10 November, 2007, 07:55:22 AM
may this thread live forever!

I guess the number of migrants would depend on whether you got some future version of those xenophobic creeps at Migrationwatch uk or someone more objective to add things up
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 10 November, 2007, 09:08:00 AM

The Dredd introduction "Mega-City one is hoem to 400 million citizens".

The Anderson story SATAN "Do my bidding and I will spare those five hundred million lives"


Uhm...either Satan can't count, or he was telling fibs (ooh - how evil of him!), or - and here's a bone of nerdy contention - there are 400 million cits, and another 100 million tourists / aliens / troggies / ambassadors...
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 10 November, 2007, 12:34:15 PM
Well indeed, Satan says "500 million lives" - not 500 million citizens.  That's your gribligs right there.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Steve Green on 10 November, 2007, 12:59:01 PM
On the births and deaths angle...

Abortion of healthy pregancies is illegal in MC1, but mutation either results in termination or expulsion of the child. (Or induction into Psi-Div)

With regards to eldsters, you have euthanasiums and cits who have their life artifically extended (Bizmo Klux for example)

- Steve
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Robin Low on 10 November, 2007, 02:45:54 PM
"Abortion of healthy pregancies is illegal in MC1"

Is it? I'm not disputing the point, I just can't remember ever reading it.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Steve Green on 10 November, 2007, 04:46:14 PM
I'm sure it's mentioned after the events of Bloodlines where Vienna finds out she is pregnant with Pasha's child.

The Robo-doc says that it's illegal to terminate unless there's a genetic flaw, but the embryo can be transplanted for fostering.

- Steve
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dudley on 11 November, 2007, 07:49:49 AM

Link: Anti-suicide & abortion MC-1 laws

Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Proudhuff on 13 November, 2007, 04:07:38 PM
Does GRennie know about this thread?

Robbies PubHuff
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Lord Running Clam on 13 November, 2007, 07:22:32 PM
When counting the population, would you include all the people who have gone in cryogenics?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 13 November, 2007, 08:48:03 PM
Awesome, Lord Clam, just awesome.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 13 November, 2007, 08:52:11 PM
And do cubed time travellers count, even duplicates of the same person from different times.




V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Cthulouis on 13 November, 2007, 09:22:36 PM
And don't forget Satan...
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Cthulouis on 13 November, 2007, 10:04:27 PM
By which I mean Satan in cube 666, rather than the Anderson one. There must be a fair few supernatural creatures locked up in cubes/crystals/bottles by now, do they count?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 13 November, 2007, 10:06:39 PM
You mean Devil Angel, the honoray member of the Angel gang.



V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Cthulouis on 13 November, 2007, 10:12:41 PM
Really? When did that happen?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 13 November, 2007, 10:41:43 PM
This happened in prog's 965 and 966, The Ballad of Devil Angel.

It was an Alan Grant Dredd with Mean, Pa and Junior. It also has Dredd in the shower with his helmet on.




V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Cthulouis on 13 November, 2007, 11:18:08 PM
heh, cool, need to check that one out, which of the case files would that one be in?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Proudhuff on 16 November, 2007, 01:46:28 PM
''Dredd in the shower with his helmet on''.

Is there a scan of that? would it make a good tshirt?

oh and the say there is about a million peaple a day airbourne around the world, so how many are airborne in MC1 at any given time?

Huff the Count
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 16 November, 2007, 01:59:58 PM
Here you go huff, I'm just wondering where the back scratcher is going.



V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: JayzusB.Christ on 16 November, 2007, 02:00:10 PM
'It was an Alan Grant Dredd with Mean, Pa and Junior. It also has Dredd in the shower with his helmet on.'

Could have sworn that was John Wagner. In any case I was mighty impressed at the actual proper rhyming scheme which so many 2000ad writers try but just can't do (with the exception of Alans Moore and Grant, John Wagner and El Spurioso himself).
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 19 November, 2007, 04:18:54 PM
Right, that's it. What with all the hoo-hah about this month's Rennie Dredd, I demand that the hard work put into this thread be made into an appropriate strip. Spurrier, since you started it, the burden falls squarely on you.

Get cracking.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: TordelBack on 19 November, 2007, 04:41:25 PM
Actually, a story about the Mega-City Census has potential.  You can just see them opening the Undercity gates for a weedy little bowler-hatted man with a clipboard, silhouetted against the lights.   "And how many larvae are normally resident at this address, Ms. Quarlizcyxx?"   Should be drawn by Cam Kennedy.  Get to it, Spurrier.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: El Spurioso on 19 November, 2007, 04:45:02 PM
This thread makes my brain hurt.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 19 November, 2007, 04:45:30 PM
Primes grenade

What about tourists? All the current cities include tourists in their population count.

Runs around the corner, slows to a walk with hands behind back, whistles a jaunty tune
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 13 December, 2007, 08:02:59 PM
Has inter dimentional refugees insurgents etc been looked into.

It wasnt me(HE HE HE)






V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Proudhuff on 18 December, 2007, 02:32:25 PM
That Dredd in the Shower, where are those bubbles coming from?

parpparp Huff
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: ned-kogar on 02 February, 2008, 12:36:30 AM
Hello. I'm new, and delighted.

I've niggles about the Big Meg's population density. By my (pointless, time-consuming, lonely) calculations, we're only looking at about 2051 cits per square mile. Less than Bangladesh. And the Maldives.

Help me.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 02 February, 2008, 01:32:05 AM
Welcome, ned-kogar! And, may I say, what an excellent contribution you've already made to the field of space-maths. I'll be chewing that one over for a bit.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Floyd-the-k on 02 February, 2008, 03:28:16 AM
welcome to the board Ned-Kogar. Could you give that figure to the square kilometre, for those of us from metric countries?

thanks for giving me yet another reason to not compare Mega City One to the Maldives
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Floyd-the-k on 02 February, 2008, 03:28:20 AM
welcome to the board Ned-Kogar. Could you give that figure to the square kilometre, for those of us from metric countries?

thanks for giving me yet another reason to not compare Mega City One to the Maldives
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: vzzbux on 02 February, 2008, 08:29:18 AM
Yay this thread is back, and a warm welcome to Ned-kogar
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: ,Mr. Nice on 02 February, 2008, 11:28:57 AM
That's about 792 per sq km.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Tweak72 on 02 February, 2008, 12:20:13 PM
Ah, but what about robots?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: ned-kogar on 02 February, 2008, 12:33:48 PM
Thanks for the welcomes. It seems nice round here.
 
Yep, 792 cits / sq km is right. According to the assumptions I've made. Figures come out a bit like this:

400 000 000 population
195 000 sq miles of MC-1
av. 50 000 pop / block
8000 blocks
305 sectors
26 blocks / sector
2050 pop / sq mile
1 block / 5 sq miles
each sector 25 sq miles

Pardon the imperials. And if I go wonky on my conversions:

400 000 000 population
505 000 sq km of MC-1
av. 50 000 pop / block
8000 blocks
305 sectors
26 blocks / sector
792 pop / sq mile
1 block / 13 sq km
each sector 64.7 sq km

Maybe.

I'm reckoning a LOT of MC-1 is industrial, too. That'll cramp the buggers in a bit.

I am 37 years old and my girlfriend has gone on holiday.

Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: ned-kogar on 02 February, 2008, 12:36:53 PM
That's reassuring - they'll take up lots of space too..

Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Buttonman on 02 February, 2008, 03:18:02 PM
Shamefully I've neglected this thread which is right up my OCD street.

I think the city block issue is easily explained away - some areas will have a good few clustered together while others might have none at all. If you go to Springburn you'd assume that all Glasgow is multi-stories whereas they are the exception rather than the rule.

One thing that does seem strange is that the city is often described as having mile high buildings and city bottom as being a far down place. If that is the case the population density would be even lower.

The population should be ret-conned to 3 billion immediately. And then killed.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: ned-kogar on 05 February, 2008, 09:48:16 AM
Some kind of super-fecundity virus would do it.

Either that, or a previously unnoted census error.

That'll learn 'em.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Richmond Clements on 05 February, 2008, 11:52:07 AM
a previously unnoted census error

I think that this idea is close to genius!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Proudhuff on 05 February, 2008, 02:23:54 PM

'a previously unnoted census error' by the central computer?
Whatever happened to ERNIE or Bernie or whatever the central computer was called? Its not been see for ages.

We should Tell Wagner the numbers are up, it might mean another Apco'War

Huff
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 06 February, 2008, 12:23:34 PM
Barney?  MAC?

I think he got sent to the cute/irritating cupboard with Walter the Wobot.

Once you factor in transport (roads, pedestrian areas, zooms, stratoports), industry (power towers, resyk, munce-processing) and rich people (that garden for the Banzai Battalion) taking up a lot of space, suddenly the population density ramps up in other areas.

Funt Solo, PhD Space Maths
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 06 February, 2008, 01:09:52 PM
You can't exclude roads from the population density figures, because of all of those Mo-Pads.

Fegbarr, Lucasian Professor of Space-Maths
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Tweak72 on 06 February, 2008, 01:21:37 PM
Oh GOD! The tread is repeating it self.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Funt Solo on 06 February, 2008, 02:31:50 PM
I'm not excluding roads, just saying they must have a far lower population density, as there are only approximately 9 million mo-paders (according to my journal paper: 'Utilising Space-Maths to Accurately Calculate the Mopad Population of MC-1').

Apparently, though, the entire world of MC-1 Population Statistics Debate is about to be turned on it's head: I hear that a Professor Calahan is going to give a speech on how, years ago, he invented this character called Judge Dreed that's a lawman in Moto-City One.

Turns out that Wanger and Co. probably plagiarised the entire concept from him.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Proudhuff on 06 February, 2008, 03:11:51 PM
bring Back Barney!!! I invented him, the canpaign starts here

Callahan-huff
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 06 February, 2008, 03:35:52 PM
Barney? MAC?

I think he got sent to the cute/irritating cupboard with Walter the Wobot.


Two different computers there. Barney was the City Hall computer, who went schizo and terminated himself when he realised he'd inadvertantly caused several deaths.

MAC is Justice Department's database, and still pops up form time to time.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega Cit...
Post by: Proudhuff on 06 February, 2008, 03:52:47 PM
Well, that went well

 
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 13 February, 2009, 03:33:21 PM
Y'know, although I know that returning to this thread is much like picking at a scab despite knowing it'll never heal that way, I've been thinking - what effect has the recent influx of Cursed Earth mutants concievably had on the population figures...?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Bouwel on 13 February, 2009, 04:48:32 PM
Maybe it's for a future plot in the making, or a commentary on the current trends in UK immigration. I can see how it could have a significant impact. I guess how many actually come in depends upon what the plots need.

-Bouwel-
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 13 February, 2009, 06:04:46 PM
Right! The gauntlet is down, ladies and gentlemen. We must immediately drop everything and consider:

1) The immediate effect on MC1's population of granting citizenship to mutants.

2) The effect on population population densities as segments of the population are rehoused to accomodate.

And finally, my favourite:

3) The effect of having a significantly increased mutant presence on projected population figures. How fast will they breed? Is there a different likelihood of infant mortality among the mutant population?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Roger Godpleton on 13 February, 2009, 06:08:37 PM
Can't we just say "A lot"?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Robin Low on 13 February, 2009, 06:28:21 PM
Quote from: "SamuelAWilkinson"Right! The gauntlet is down, ladies and gentlemen. We must immediately drop everything and consider:

1) The immediate effect on MC1's population of granting citizenship to mutants.

2) The effect on population population densities as segments of the population are rehoused to accomodate.

And finally, my favourite:

3) The effect of having a significantly increased mutant presence on projected population figures. How fast will they breed? Is there a different likelihood of infant mortality among the mutant population?

Okay. Bouwel has already pointed out that the numbers and effects will be driven by plot, so logical thinking will only have so much value unless Wagner and others go for logic over story. However...

I don't think mutants will pose much of a problem in purely numerical terms. Why? Well, think about it. The immediate area outside the city wall has always been depicted as pretty deserted. It makes sense that the Judges have traditional discouraged mutants from settling too close. Therefore, most people, mutants and otherwise, live in communities some distance from the city.

Communities form because there's safety in numbers. As we know, travelling through the Cursed Earth is a hazardous prospect. So, unless whole communities are willing to upsticks and travel together for mutual protection, I don't see that many heading towards MC1.

Also, there are plenty of ordinary humans out in the Cursed Earth (think of the Poveys and their community), but as far as we know they're not all clammering on the walls to get in. Clearly, just getting to walls is so hazardous that even norms don't take the chance.

Regards

Robin
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Bouwel on 13 February, 2009, 07:56:42 PM
An interesting story line with a Romeo & Juliet angle would be the love affair between a Megacity citizen and a mutant.

Remember, you saw it here first!

-Bouwel-
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Peter Wolf on 13 February, 2009, 08:13:21 PM
MC1 would allow for a set quota of Mutants to become MC1 citzens as an open door policy is very very unlikely.Thats my thinking.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: M.I.K. on 13 February, 2009, 08:27:49 PM
Hmmm... The difficulties of determining the actual population numbers might make for an entertaining one-off Judge Dredd strip.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Bouwel on 13 February, 2009, 09:04:10 PM
The old fall back 'So many records were lost in the war/disaster of the month' may come into play.

-Bouwel-
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: TordelBack on 13 February, 2009, 10:20:08 PM
The biggest constraint on mutant numbers is the speed of processing applications.  As we saw in Mutie Block, mutants are still actively discouraged from entering the city, to no good effect, so all that's stopping a tidal wave is the number of admissions officers and the speed of the process.  If the mutie isn't a known perp, I'd say there is a very good chance of admission,given time - pretty much an open door policy.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: I, Cosh on 13 February, 2009, 10:37:47 PM
Quote from: "TordelBack"The biggest constraint on mutant numbers is the speed of processing applications.  As we saw in Mutie Block, mutants are still actively discouraged from entering the city, to no good effect, so all that's stopping a tidal wave is the number of admissions officers and the speed of the process.  If the mutie isn't a known perp, I'd say there is a very good chance of admission,given time - pretty much an open door policy.
I'd say anti-mutie violence probably keeps the numbers down too.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: vzzbux on 16 February, 2009, 12:01:54 AM
I reckon we should inundate the letters pages of both the meg and tooth demanding a storyline including the full population of the meg, finally putting this thread to bed. Though it has been fun it needs to be answered.




V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Bouwel on 16 February, 2009, 10:43:23 AM
Not matter what the population give it three months and some major disaster will be along to leave Dredd and three citizens left alive.

Or did that only happen in the 1990's progs?

-Bouwel-
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: SamuelAWilkinson on 16 February, 2009, 01:43:57 PM
Quote from: "vzzbux"I reckon we should inundate the letters pages of both the meg and tooth demanding a storyline including the full population of the meg, finally putting this thread to bed. Though it has been fun it needs to be answered.




V


Beat you to that one. Tharg confirmed the exact population of Mega-City One around April of last year.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Proudhuff on 16 February, 2009, 01:52:04 PM
More concerned about the number of Judges, every week another couple get bumped off, epics see hundreds killed, is the Academy  the only place they graduate from or are there more of these in other sectors?  its a worry.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: TordelBack on 16 February, 2009, 01:54:54 PM
Maybe robot judges are the solution.  Oh, wait...
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Bouwel on 16 February, 2009, 04:55:29 PM
No, not robot Judges.
Clones Judges are the answ...oh...right....

-Bouwel-
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: vzzbux on 03 September, 2009, 07:28:07 PM
Does the creation of the shanty towns mutant townships count as part of the population of the meg?








V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Mike Gloady on 03 September, 2009, 09:04:43 PM
If they count as Big Meg then it stands to reason that their population would count towards the Big Meg's population.  If they have a lower, protectorate or territory-like status then I presume they'd have their own figures.

Not that I know a damned thing, you understand, just riffing.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: I, Cosh on 03 September, 2009, 09:18:43 PM
Well, the influx following the repeal of the mutie laws would've been quite significant given whole blocks were assigned to them. With the planned removal being done on a regulated, orderly basis (no doubt a hardy, indeterminate few will stick around too) and no major disaster for several years, the impact of the mutant population on Cryptodemographics can't be overstated.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: vzzbux on 22 April, 2012, 10:18:31 PM
Maybe the end of DOC will give us a number to go on and this age old question will be finally answered.




V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: TordelBack on 22 April, 2012, 10:29:13 PM
Quote from: vzzbux on 22 April, 2012, 10:18:31 PM
Maybe the end of DOC will give us a number to go on and this age old question will be finally answered.

Zero?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Proudhuff on 23 April, 2012, 03:57:07 PM
nay, One and you know who it will be.

'If I have to destroy it to save it...'
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 07 May, 2012, 08:44:57 PM
Bump.

Because if you're new to the board you need to see what you're letting yourself in for.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: SmallBlueThing on 07 May, 2012, 10:09:15 PM
I fucking, fucking, love this board. Ive always wondered what the estimated population of the cursed earth might be- mutant and human. We seen population counts of settlements listed, from time to time, but how many are there?

SBT
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Proudhuff on 08 May, 2012, 01:42:43 PM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 07 May, 2012, 10:09:15 PM
I fucking, fucking, love this board. Ive always wondered what the estimated population of the cursed earth might be- mutant and human. We seen population counts of settlements listed, from time to time, but how many are there?

SBT

we'll have a head count AFTER the Day of Chaos  ;)
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Proudhuff on 15 May, 2012, 10:41:04 AM
7 Million down and counting... :o
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: vzzbux on 15 May, 2012, 03:47:09 PM
Lets just wait until the dust settles. the death toll is bound to be fuckloads.




V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Proudhuff on 15 May, 2012, 04:04:26 PM
Quote from: vzzbux on 15 May, 2012, 03:47:09 PM
Lets just wait until the dust settles. the death toll is bound to be fuckloads.

V

You're are Vass and I claim my five pounds!  :D
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: vzzbux on 23 June, 2012, 08:22:43 PM
I reckon that before DoC the population of the Meg was around 450 mill maybe more. After the apoc war it was reduced to 400 mil. I doubt the pop levels would have stagnated at the 400 mil mark. But as no one answered the population thread then we have to wait for the official figures to come out.

Also with such a reduction in the now current population, the loss of Judges seems to be less of percentage at to the cit's. But have been hit massively by the Academy losses.





V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: ned-kogar on 24 June, 2012, 04:22:12 PM
Well, latest Prog answers this question, just about. Yikes.

Ned
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: vzzbux on 24 June, 2012, 09:51:58 PM
My point is that since the apoc war we have never had a difinitive figure on population. Maybe after current events this thread will finally have closure.





V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Colin YNWA on 24 June, 2012, 10:14:07 PM
Quote from: vzzbux on 24 June, 2012, 09:51:58 PM
My point is that since the apoc war we have never had a difinitive figure on population. Maybe after current events this thread will finally have closure.


Even if they do things may well be thrown back into confusion if mutants are 'imported' to help rebuild the city as seems possible at this stage?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: A.Cow on 24 June, 2012, 11:27:50 PM
One of my biggest niggles is the taxation system in MC-1.  If unemployment is 99% and nearly all citizens are on welfare, where does all the Justice Dept. money come from?  Even with sales taxes (and odd stuff like 'ugly product' tax), they're spending far more than they generate.

And even if they have big farms, very cheap robot production lines and automated mines producing stuff for export, who are they exporting it to?
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Professor Bear on 25 June, 2012, 12:00:08 AM
1% of 400 million is 4 000 000 and taxation revenue would be pretty significant, especially if it was aggressive.  Add to that Meg exports like city-generated food and energy and the city would have a hefty income, though could probably still be operating at a massive and growing loss much like any country in the here and now.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: vzzbux on 27 June, 2012, 09:11:43 PM
I think the city will be left with just shy of 100 million cit's and Judges post DoC.
I'm going with the fact that the population had a steady increase since the Apoc war.
They may repopulate with condo's (if they are still around) and other world colonies.






V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: JOE SOAP on 28 June, 2012, 07:57:54 PM
The Day of Chaos storyline puts the population at [spoiler]50 million.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: vzzbux on 28 June, 2012, 10:03:13 PM
The storyline just gives us a death toll not a final population count. I think we should just wait until the great one gives us a difinitive figure. If he gives us one.





V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Cactus on 28 June, 2012, 10:14:59 PM
I spotted this on the 2000AD homepage a couple of hours ago, from the Lionsgate Twitter feed:

Quote from: Lionsgatemovies[spoiler]During the Atomic Wars, the population of Mega-City One was 400 million. It is now 50 million.[/spoiler]

I don't twit so I have no idea of the context of that comment.

Spoiler tags because it's tangentially related to the film and I don't want to piss anyone off.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: JOE SOAP on 28 June, 2012, 10:17:20 PM
Quote from: Cactus on 28 June, 2012, 10:14:59 PM
I spotted this on the 2000AD homepage a couple of hours ago, from the Lionsgate Twitter feed:

Quote from: Lionsgatemovies[spoiler]During the Atomic Wars, the population of Mega-City One was 400 million. It is now 50 million.[/spoiler]

I don't twit so I have no idea of the context of that comment.

Spoiler tags because it's tangentially related to the film and I don't want to piss anyone off.



Well it's erroneous anyway. Population of MC-1 during the Atomic War was 800 million, after the Apocalypse War it was 400 million. It's 800 million in the Dredd film as mentioned in the trailer.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Cactus on 28 June, 2012, 10:41:24 PM
Good point! I read Atomic as Apocalypse. Most likely gibbering nonsense then.  :-[
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Buttonman on 28 June, 2012, 10:55:26 PM
The trouble here is that if we are at 50 million the potential scope of the stories has to be reigned in - can't go frying 20 million citz when that would be a big chunk of the population. Basically the city is one Necropolis, Apocalypse war or Robot war away from total annihilation! Even a Russell Muscle thong frenzy could put us on the brink!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: James Stacey on 29 June, 2012, 08:44:58 AM
I suspect there will be a big influx of migrants now. Helltreckers returning, mutants if the laws are repealed, even off world and from other Mega cities. Let's face it, there are going to be whole blocks of lux pads vacant. I was thinking about shrinking the borders too, would that be practical? I assume there will be lots of both industrial and commercial property that won't want to up sticks
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Tombo on 29 June, 2012, 01:58:22 PM
I was re-reading Origins the other night and I was wondering, do you think the judges will have a re-think of old Judds idea about cloning citizens.  It might take a while but it's one way of building up the population.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Bat King on 29 June, 2012, 02:29:02 PM
Insurrection takes over MC1...

Uplifts and robots get full citizenship, SJS disbanded. Free and open elections with a Democratic Govt replacing Council of Five.

[spoiler]Or maybe not.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: JOE SOAP on 29 June, 2012, 02:37:08 PM
Quote from: Tombo on 29 June, 2012, 01:58:22 PM
I was re-reading Origins the other night and I was wondering, do you think the judges will have a re-think of old Judds idea about cloning citizens.  It might take a while but it's one way of building up the population.



I don't think increasing population would be the best idea in the circumstances.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Tombo on 29 June, 2012, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 29 June, 2012, 02:37:08 PM
Quote from: Tombo on 29 June, 2012, 01:58:22 PM
I was re-reading Origins the other night and I was wondering, do you think the judges will have a re-think of old Judds idea about cloning citizens.  It might take a while but it's one way of building up the population.



I don't think increasing population would be the best idea in the circumstances.

Why not?  More Cits means more people to tax, more potential recruits for the Department, more people for R&D work and other jobs droids can't do.  Granted there'd be more perps as well but those Judges need something to do between giving out parking tickets.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: A.Cow on 30 June, 2012, 05:14:11 AM
Quote from: Tombo on 29 June, 2012, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 29 June, 2012, 02:37:08 PM
I don't think increasing population would be the best idea in the circumstances.
Why not?  More Cits means more people to tax, more potential recruits for the Department, more people for R&D work and other jobs droids can't do.  Granted there'd be more perps as well but those Judges need something to do between giving out parking tickets.

Erm ... what exactly would you be taxing?  Certainly not their income, as the majority are unemployed.

You could apply a hefty sales tax to whatever they purchase with their welfare money, but you're simply giving it out with one hand and taking it back with the other -- a level of inefficiency that even an MC-1 bureaucrat would baulk at.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: WhitBloke on 30 June, 2012, 10:29:31 AM
Which takes us from Bob's Third Law ("What justice department giveth...") to Bob's Fourth Law.  Keep what money there is moving fast enough and people are stupid enough to happily believe there's lots of it around, keep on spending, keep on borrowing, keep on lending.
Mind you, with far fewer mega-citizens around to spend what money they (don't) have and a production base crippled by riots, fires and so on, perhaps Judge Dredd'll be visiting the problem of a catastrophic economic slow-down in the coming months.  (Won't that be fun to watch...)

Now might be a good time for anybody with investment credits to spare to make an offer to a cash-strapped Justice Department for Gunge Foods since those same daft Department bureaucrats mentioned might just be stupid and panicked enough to sell it for less than it's worth after buying it for a song under McGruder.

After all, and I do admit to smirking as I type this, fifty million cits've still gotta eat shit in the Big Meg.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Frank on 01 July, 2012, 06:23:32 PM
Quote from: WhitBloke on 30 June, 2012, 10:29:31 AM
Which takes us from Bob's Third Law ("What justice department giveth...") to Bob's Fourth Law.  Keep what money there is moving fast enough and people are stupid enough to happily believe there's lots of it around, keep on spending, keep on borrowing, keep on lending.

Mind you, with far fewer mega-citizens around to spend what money they (don't) have and a production base crippled by riots, fires and so on, perhaps Judge Dredd'll be visiting the problem of a catastrophic economic slow-down in the coming months.  (Won't that be fun to watch...)

Now might be a good time for anybody with investment credits to spare to make an offer to a cash-strapped Justice Department for Gunge Foods since those same daft Department bureaucrats mentioned might just be stupid and panicked enough to sell it for less than it's worth after buying it for a song under McGruder.

Blackmocco's got 50 creds just lying around.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: WhitBloke on 01 July, 2012, 09:24:22 PM
Yeah?  Fifty's practically minted these days.  Get in quick, Blackmocco, they might throw in the White Cliffs of Dover!
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 23 September, 2013, 08:02:22 PM
S'gonna be a bit less when the Dark Judges roll into town after Christmas.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Proudhuff on 01 October, 2013, 04:34:41 PM
How about the citz below ground and the Trogies get citzhoodship? If its good enough for Muties...
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: vzzbux on 07 October, 2013, 11:43:16 PM
And it has now been established in the current storyline that many have sought refuge in the undercity from DOC. This may mean that a large influx of cits may repopulate the city giving us a larger number thus making the current population total void.



V
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: sheridan on 18 March, 2020, 09:34:43 PM
Seeing as it comes up in other threads every now and then...
Judge Dredd Megazine 417, Sector Control. 
2000AD Prog 2172, Tharg's Nerve Centre.
Mega-City One, 2142 AD, population over 140 million citizens.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 13 January, 2023, 10:48:34 PM
A nercopost, yes. And apologies.

But I was explaining to my wife tonight why this board is awesome and yet old fashioned. I searched for this thread to make my case.

This thread is, next to Thread Zero, my favourite. And those who remember Thread Zero are few and far between. Not that it ever existed...
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 13 January, 2023, 11:34:51 PM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 13 January, 2023, 10:48:34 PM
And those who remember Thread Zero are few and far between. Not that it ever existed...

There is no Thread Zero. There never was. There are no black helicopters. Please remain in your home, Dr X — no one will be calling.
Title: Re: Current Population of Mega City One...?
Post by: Funt Solo on 03 February, 2023, 10:45:01 PM
Quote from: Rob Spalding on 25 October, 2007, 11:44:40 AMAt the end of the day, the population of MC1 is whatever John Wagner says it is.

Ya hear that Spurrier!
Whateva Wagner says it is!

Rereading this thread is always entertaining.