Pat Mills on Action article.

[Frank]

Maybe as you say (not) Star Wars sci-fi but I suspect the remit was to catch the sci-fi wave driven by Star Wars rather than Star Wars  itself.

Yeah, Mills was probably trying to paint on a broader canvas than pure space opera, in the hope of giving the comic some longevity. I'm sure he thought Star Wars would be a flash in the pan, and - as Mills always points out - Mach-1 was the biggest hit with readers.

Those early strips do seem more like sci-fi themed versions of typical seventies stories though. Recognisable real world situations or familiar genre material with an added sci-fi element - as opposed to something like Nemesis, which is just alien in every sense of the word.

[Colin YNWA]

Oh and also meant to say isn't ALF Sci-Fi as well? 'Comedy' sci-fi but sci-fi?

[M.I.K.]

Leaving aside the question of Pat Mills's regard for sci-fi, was Pat Mills's 2000ad (the first 12 issues) a sci-fi comic?

Yes.

Basically, did Mills blow the brief of creating a sci-fi comic?

No.

[Spikes]

I remember sci-fi (was it even called sci-fi then?) that was aimed at kids in the 1970's.

Invariably it looked like this.

[Frank]

Knight Rider qualifies as sci-fi

You're a more generous soul than me, Blackmocco, and will live a longer, happier life as a result.

Star Wars is sci-fi. But so is Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind. Guardians Of The Galaxy is. But so is Under The Skin.

You're outlining a benign version of the one drop rule, where everything's either one thing or the other. You picked really great films as examples, but if a single conceit allows sci-fi to claim a relationship drama as its own, we have to clutch Adam Sandler's Click to our bosom with equal enthusiasm.

[blackmocco]

Knight Rider qualifies as sci-fi

You're a more generous soul than me, Blackmocco, and will live a longer, happier life as a result.

Star Wars is sci-fi. But so is Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind. Guardians Of The Galaxy is. But so is Under The Skin.

You're outlining a benign version of the one drop rule, where everything's either one thing or the other. You picked really great films as examples, but if a single conceit allows sci-fi to claim a relationship drama as its own, we have to clutch Adam Sandler's Click to our bosom with equal enthusiasm.

Not at all. Some of these movies straddle the genres. Eternal Sunshine is also a romance movie, and possibly a comedy too. Certainly some satire in there too. But it also falls under sci-fi courtesy of the movie's main concept: technology that erases people's memories. Click is a comedy but also can be defined under a sci-fi bracket. I'm not saying these movies are purely sci-fi but that's the joy of the genre. Just like heavy metal covers everything from Burzum to Sabbath to KISS to Cinderella. It's a nebulous definition as a genre but no less part of it.

[WhizzBang]

I agree with the post earlier which said this thread was ridiculous but I thought I would shove my oar in anway because I have had a drink or two.

Star Wars is not sci-fi - it is fantasy. It may be space themed but it is still basically about wizards, monsters, magic, evil villains with dark fortresses, princesses and young boys having adventures to save stuff. There is no plausable scientific reality within it at all.

Pat Mills is the very reason why we are here and this website and 2000ad exist at all. He has always had a slight confrontational edge while also knowing how to reign it in for commercial reality reasons. I think it is a shame people often moan about his stuff and his views when it is really to his credit that he can produce good and confrontational copy for interviews while still producing stuff like the recent Defoe, Robusters and Slaine which vastly outshine many contemporary strips I will not mention explicitly.

[Frank]

I'm not saying these movies are purely sci-fi but that's the joy of the genre

Agreed! And half of the launch line up stories weren't very sci-fi: Mach-1's maybe a 2/10 on the sliding scale of sci-fidom, Flesh seems like a 5*, and Invasion only registers a single point for predicting a prime minister and a BBC factual channel.

To adopt your terms, they're Bon Jovi to the Rammstein of Halo Jones Book Three.


* Thanks mainly to Colin telling me it featured a robot sheriff - I hope his name was Garry Copper

[Jim_Campbell]

Star Wars is not sci-fi - it is fantasy. It may be space themed but it is still basically about wizards, monsters, magic, evil villains with dark fortresses, princesses and young boys having adventures to save stuff. There is no plausable scientific reality within it at all.

Aliens. Independently reasoning robots. Energy weapons. Holography. Faster than light travel. Of course it's science fiction.

[WhizzBang]

Aliens. Independently reasoning robots. Energy weapons. Holography. Faster than light travel. Of course it's science fiction.

Not really. Aliens are just the space fantasy replacement for monsters. The robots are just quirky characters who are only robots because of the space theme. The energy weapons are the kind of things fairies/wizards shoot energy out of wands. The faster than light travel is not utilised as science fiction as it ignores the time dilation impacts of this and is merely a device to allow the story to move from one setting to another.

Irvin Kershner and George Lucas were both quite vocal about Star Wars not being science fiction.

[Jim_Campbell]

Not really. Aliens are just the space fantasy replacement for monsters. The robots are just quirky characters who are only robots because of the space theme. The energy weapons are the kind of things fairies/wizards shoot energy out of wands. The faster than light travel is not utilised as science fiction as it ignores the time dilation impacts of this and is merely a device to allow the story to move from one setting to another.

Absolute rot. "If we discount all the SF elements, this is just a western/horror/romcom." If we discount all the fantasy elements, Lord of the Rings is a war story. 'Hard' SF has its place, but its adherents frequently attempt to proscribe the entire genre within the confines of their preferred definition. Under this sort of definition, the Lensman novels aren't SF, the Stainless Steel Rat novels aren't SF, fucking Star Trek isn't SF.

[Modern Panther]

wizards, monsters, magic, evil villains with dark fortresses, princesses and young boys having adventures to save stuff. There is no plausable scientific reality within it at all.

Dune.

It depends in your interpretation of sci fi.  Lucas was heavily inspired by Joseph Campbell's work on historical mythology, which is probably why he would use "fantasy" rather than "science fiction".  Plenty of modern commentators would combine the two, since they both deal with world's that are not real, with everything else being interchangeable. 

My favourite definition of the two is from Prof Gary Wolfe, who said that sci find happens "on a planet" (or "somewhere out there"), but fantasy happens "in a world" (that isn't, and could never be).  It demonstrates the paperthin division between the genres. 

[blackmocco]

I'm not saying these movies are purely sci-fi but that's the joy of the genre

Agreed! And half of the launch line up stories weren't very sci-fi: Mach-1's maybe a 2/10 on the sliding scale of sci-fidom, Flesh seems like a 5*, and Invasion only registers a single point for predicting a prime minister and a BBC factual channel.

To adopt your terms, they're Bon Jovi to the Rammstein of Halo Jones Book Three.


* Thanks mainly to Colin telling me it featured a robot sheriff - I hope his name was Garry Copper

Ehh. We'll just have to accept how we define sci-fi is very different. To address your original point though regarding 2000AD, I'd have to disagree though.

[Frank]

Pat Mills is the very reason why we are here ... I think it is a shame people often moan about his stuff

I'm not having a go at Pat Mills or the launch line up stories.

What interests me is the disparity between the original inspiration for 2000ad - which as well as Star Wars must include Kelvin Gosnell's memo proposing they adapt the work of legit sci-fi authors like Clarke, Asimov and Bradbury - and the pulp line up of prog 1.

I think the Mills quote I posted before explains the journey 2000ad went on between December 1975 and February 1977. Mills understood that action and character endeared strips to readers, and prioritised those over involved sci-fi concepts.

[Colin YNWA]

I think the Mills quote I posted before explains the journey 2000ad went on between December 1975 and February 1977. Mills understood that action and character endeared strips to readers, and prioritised those over involved sci-fi concepts.

While understanding that the two were in no way mutually exclusive, in fact they worked well together and was thus able to produce a clearly Sci-Fi comic with great action and characters.

Phew there we're sorted. Glad we got all that out the way...

...what hold on now Star Wars isn't sci-fi what new poppycock is this....