How to make a healthy vibrant forum?

[milstar]

Yes, I sent recently an appeal as I accidentally quoted my own comment and made the post.
Thx for answer.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

While the spam above this will undoubtebly be removed, I am keen to retain for posterity that it included a link to:

"radioactive dating in the Antartic"

Now, of course, that could be a reference to working out the age of prehistoric objects.

However, on a first read, I wondered if there was a futureshock pitch in it...

[Funt Solo]

While the spam above this will undoubtebly be removed...

Perhaps it was the word "vibrant" that attracted them.

[Funt Solo]

I've noticed that people like to use the word "scotch" instead of "Scottish" on the board - presumably because it's hilarious, or something. I mean, it's not hilarious to me, but I've heard other people say it's just the cornerstone of bonhomie.

Given that we're open to this sort of casual cultural denigration I was wondering what else was acceptable?

Presumably, we can use "paddy" for the Irish, and "taff" for the Welsh. That's not going to offend anyone, is it - because everyone here is such a jolly japester. And, anyone with red hair we could call "ginger" with a hard middle-G, I suppose. I know they find that *endlessly* amusing. And why stop there? There are all sorts of words we can use for people with different cultural histories or skin pigmentation.

The only thing I'm missing is something for the English. I have some ideas. I'm just worried, though, that if I actually type them out maybe people won't find it hilarious when I do it. I even worry that if I were to tell you all my ideas I might get ejected from the community. Because it's okay to denigrate some cultures and not others. I'm still trying to figure out the exact rules.

[I, Cosh]

I've noticed that people like to use the word "scotch" instead of "Scottish" on the board - presumably because it's hilarious, or something. I mean, it's not hilarious to me, but I've heard other people say it's just the cornerstone of bonhomie.

I'm Scottish and I sometimes use it because I find it amusing. Primarily because it's exactly the sort of thing which would aggravate my mother's agressively "Wha's like us?!" new partner.

I don't see much difference between the way I use it and these examples.

Mad Max
Mad Max 2: The Road Warrior (featuring Mad Scotch Mel: The Woad Warrior from Braveheart)
...and the third movie in the saga:
Mad Max: Fury Road

i am vaguely aware of some kind of animosity/rivalry between the Campbells and the Mcdonalds who were Scottish clans apparently

Ah, yes - all Scotch kids get taught about this in primary school, and if you fail the subsequent tests you get thrown off an oil rig and have to swim to the shore.

The basic story is that the Campbells stole the Mcdonalds soup recipe and got rich from it.

[Funt Solo]

What can I say - I was an Uncle Jock - but I have awoken. You have to allow me room to grow, Cosh.

Edit #1: I like my joke about the oil rigs, though.
Edit #2: I thought it was too obvious to mention the corollary with the n-word and it being okay to use it if...

[I, Cosh]

What can I say - I was an Uncle Jock - but I have awoken. You have to allow me room to grow, Cosh.

Edit #1: I like my joke about the oil rigs, though.
Edit #2: I thought it was too obvious to mention the corollary with the n-word and it being okay to use it if...

Wow. I've been thinking about this all afternoon and I need to ask how serious you're being here as I can't judge it from what's written.

On the surface it seems like a staggeringly misjudged attempt at exaggeration for comic effect. However, you've come back to edit it twice and kept it in so that suggests you really mean it.

[Funt Solo]

Well, I'm not sure what's so shocking. I'm not equating the two terms. I'm comparing the situations.

I am suggesting that someone who's the target of derogatory terminology can often get away with using it because they're not punching up or down - they're reclaiming part of the territory. I thought the n-word was a good example because lots of people tend to agree that it became something that was reclaimed by the targets. Thus the whole argument between Spike Lee and Quentin Tarantino.

That's not to say I would equate the term I complained about with the n-word, or my feeling of being got at with the experience of black people. Because I don't, and wouldn't. I'm not even sure if that's what's shocking you, though, because you didn't explain.

Interestingly, you said you use the term to deliberately aggravate someone you don't like. That seems to clarify that use of the word is to irritate on purpose. I used it in the past to try to fit in. Now I don't care to. Your mileage may vary.

[Funt Solo]

Ah - light dawning slowly - you meant me saying Jock. That just means "Scottish man", though. Still not sure why you're staggered.

[I, Cosh]

That's not to say I would equate the term I complained about with the n-word, or my feeling of being got at with the experience of black people. Because I don't, and wouldn't. I'm not even sure if that's what's shocking you, though, because you didn't explain.

Yes, it was this. Everything in the post I quoted reads to me like you are drawing an exact equivalence between the use of the two words. The Uncle Tom/Jock wordplay was a key factor.

If that's not the case then I apologise for misunderstanding.

[I, Cosh]

Interestingly, you said you use the term to deliberately aggravate someone you don't like. That seems to clarify that use of the word is to irritate on purpose. I used it in the past to try to fit in. Now I don't care to. Your mileage may vary.

Yes, because to me it seems the exaggerated offence that some Scots will take to hearing the word is mostly manufactured and completely out of proportion to any actual intended insult. I'm happy to accept that most people who say it do so without any real malice beyond ignorance. Your mileage may, of course, vary.

[sheridan]

I've noticed that people like to use the word "scotch" instead of "Scottish" on the board - presumably because it's hilarious, or something. I mean, it's not hilarious to me, but I've heard other people say it's just the cornerstone of bonhomie.

As somebody with only tangential scottish ancestry (nowhere near as strong as my Irish and Welsh ancestors, who are within living memory) I won't comment on most of your post, other than the only time I'd purposefully use 'scotch' instead of 'scots' is with close (Scots) friends or with Squaxx (amongst the latter merely quoting from Zenith - who admittedly isn't the best role model).

[Funt Solo]

I'm painfully aware that I'm probably out on a limb in my opinion on this one, so I'm appreciative of your patience with me. I'm not super-nationalist and I don't want to piss anyone off.

Maybe if it is ignorance, rather than malice, there's room for education? Jock's affectionate (y'know, unless it isn't), and Scotch is ignorant (or an egg, or a drink, or a tree, or a pie, or broth). I'm getting hungry now.

I once called my friend Frank, Frankie. He let me know that made him feel as if I didn't respect him. I made sure to only call him Frank after that. I didn't really see what the big deal was, and I thought I was being affectionate, but I didn't want to lose him as a friend. He wasn't super-touchy about anything else.

On sheridan's point, there is something to be said (as always) for knowing your audience. I used to work bar with a jolly scouser and this rather large woman walked up to him one night and said "Diet Coke, please" and he responded "It's a bit fucking late for that, isn't it?" She burst out laughing - and I was left with my jaw on the floor wondering how the fuck he got away with it. I would simply never have the nerve, and assume I'd get slapped, at best.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

The word "Jock" is affectionate in that ever-so-endearing English way of coming up with harmless collective nouns for non-English people.

You know, like "Mick" or "Sambo".

[I, Cosh]

I once called my friend Frank, Frankie. He let me know that made him feel as if I didn't respect him. I made sure to only call him Frank after that. I didn't really see what the big deal was, and I thought I was being affectionate, but I didn't want to lose him as a friend. He wasn't super-touchy about anything else.

So this has given me some quite conflicting thoughts. The story of our man Frank is clear and there is only one reasonable course of action. In the same, if someone on this board says that something which doesn't affect me is upsetting them - referring to Irish as "Paddys", let's say - then there's no question about it: I wouldn't do it.

Now I get tied up in knots though. What upsets or annoys you should clearly be treated the same way. However, in this case, it also applies to me. I don't have the same feeling about it so should I support you or say what I think? Nobody can tell you that something shouldn't bother you if it does. Equally, it's not on for anyone to tell me that I should be offended by something just because they are and we share a birthplace. 

The parts about knowing your audience are well observed. I still think you need to consider the intent of the performer as well. The only post I could see yesterday that might've prompted this was Tordelback's about "the 50% of the board who are Scotches" and I personally can't read that in any other way than affectionate: it's a question about buying drink and so already leaning into the anticipated, rote reply about what Scotch is and is not. Maybe I missed something else though as there are threads I don't bother with regularly.

Don't really have a conclusion here so I'll just stop.