Because a lot of us are still in the sub basement and cannot participate in the grownup threads about the film on this forum yet, I'm hoping that this little thread can give all us *newbs* a chance to talk about the film with this thread (because I know we are ALL itching to). I hope that the Mega Thread one justice department (the moderators) will be nice enough to let us keep this one open to the other *newbs* like us if it becomes popular.
That being said, I have been a fan od Judge Dredd since the late '80s and have loved the slow character arc that Joe has undergone over the years. I was wholly impressed that this film decided to do a take on the early Judge Dredd (sans Maria and Walter). There was a scene in the film that really brought his character home to me, and it's not one I've seen people talk a lot about on this thread or the infamous IMDB thread.
While Mama and her crew prepare the gatling cannon attack on level 79 (I think), Dredd walks the hall alone. He's calm, but knows that something big is about to happen. We see the citizens scurry away from him, latching their doors and hitting the deck. They know something's up too. In that moment, when we see him from behind, walking slowly, Urban nails Dredd in a way I didn't think possible. Every subtly body movement conveys control and menace. He doesn't need a gun. Nor does he need to speak loudly. Or even say a word. He is just the embodiment of the LAW of Mega City one.
It is a moment of acting genius that many who don't already have expectations of the character of Dredd would miss. But to me, who has wanted to see somebody nail him on the big screen for so long, this alone was worth the price of admission.
Best,
Aaorn
Good idea adogg.
I know many don't rate the opening chase seen too highly - what with the modern vehicles and such - but I loved it. I think it set the character up perfectly, Dredd's a hard bastard who won't stop until your cubed or dead and doesn't need any help doing it. I really couldn't help but grin all the way through that scene.
Alpine
Quote from: AlpineNewt on 27 September, 2012, 07:52:53 PM
Good idea adogg.
I know many don't rate the opening chase seen too highly - what with the modern vehicles and such - but I loved it. I think it set the character up perfectly, Dredd's a hard bastard who won't stop until your cubed or dead and doesn't need any help doing it. I really couldn't help but grin all the way through that scene.
Alpine
The opening is probably the best part in the entire film for me. In fact, it's arguably one of the best opening scenes in a film that I've ever watched. It had everything to set up all that you need to know in just a few minutes. The scene with the desert and the city in the background with the wall as the drone of the intro music kicked in was amazing. Everything about that sequence was just genius in terms of editing. From Dredd's voice over, to the overhead views of MC1, and the music that went with it. Then we see Dredd on that beast of a bike weaving in and out of traffic following the van. Then the perps in the van realise they are being followed by a judge, and straight away you can hear the fear in their voices. You know then that the judges are not to be messed with, even if you are heavily armed like they were. Then of course there's the line between Dredd and control: "Do you require back up?" - "NO!" It's those sort of lines that only the best cult classics can deliver.
Did I really type seen instead of scene!? Doh!
QuoteThe opening is probably the best part in the entire film for me.
I must admit that the Lawmaster weaving in an out of traffic was a sight to see. And the SFX they used to punch it up really was fantastic. I now hum it quietly to myself every time I see a bike weaving in and out of traffic on the 405.
Aaron
Cool idea for a thread! Its a shame we can't post our views on the main threads yet. :(
Anyhow, I loved the film! It was a non-stop, visceral, ultra-violent, ultra-kick a** thrill ride! I wrote a review of it for a film forum recently and thought i'd post it below if thats okay.
.........................
Wow! What a thrill ride! Visceral, bloody, depraved, beautiful (yes beautiful!), but most of all - awesome! Right from the offset from that thrilling opening Lawmaster/ car chase, to the closing scenes of Ma Ma's face getting beautifully splattered on the screen - I was on the edge of my seat, gripping my arm rest like a maniac. I was utterly thrilled, immersed into this nightmarish vision of Mega City, filled with crime, disease and decay.
It was like Judge Dredd in The City of God.
The action and violence was unrelenting. No flinching from the brutality of it, but made strangely beautiful by the drug induced slo-mo scenes. And for those scenes alone, the choice of 3D was the right choice. You cannot view it any other way. It is visually arresting. Look at the scene of Ma-Ma in the bath, the water droplets dancing like minature planets in orbit, enhanced further by that beautiful, uplifting music - visual poetry. Who would've expected to see such beauty in an 'action' flick?
Karl Urban was brilliant as Dredd - his gruff one liners, and ''yeah''s reminded me of Eastwood. The decision to keep his helmet on at all times (save the begining - and even then we don't see his face as it's obscured by shadow) is a good choice. It makes the character more mysterious and harken's back to the comics - we even get Karl Urban grimacing like Dredd - he gets the character down to a T. He is coolness personified. Check out the look on Ma Ma's face when Dredd - after taking a whole floor out to kill Dredd with their firepower - emerges unscathed from the smoke and cooly throws a baddie over the side! The look on her face shows that she has totally underestimated Dredd. And Dredd is not a man - he is The Law!
Olivia Thirlby as the rookie Anderson was superb and a joy to watch . I don't think i've seen her prior, but what a great choice she was for this role (I wont lie when I say i've fallen in love with her!) And her psychic abilities are awesome to say the least - especially in one stand out scene with the goon they're transporting. How cool was that?! And Lena Headey? This is quite possibly the best role she has played. I believed her as a ruthless, methodical, no bull, head of a drug empire. Her criminal persona like a flip side to Dredd's upholding of law. She was perfect for this role and by the end, I even had a little sympathy for her because she was a product of her environment.
Regarding the look of the film, Pete Travis captures the sprawling vision of Mega City with its massive block rising up to the sky like rows of concrete colussus' brilliantly. A concrete jungle - a chilling look into the future, a future wherin over-population, crime, decay run rampant. And the scenes of a skating ramp hundreds of kilometres up in the middle of the sky-scraper showed the insanity of it all. I think his decision to shoot the film in South Africa brought an air of believability to the whole film.
I loved the music (by Paul Leonard-Morgan) for the film too, and thought it complemented the film perfectly. Especially in those tense action scenes.
Finally Judge Dredd has a film worthy of his legendary name! I admit there are a few minor quibbles, the film's low budget does show in some places, but in a way it makes it more gritty and real. And therefore the experience was more thrilling, than if it were a big budget film. And of course with bigger budget comes the pressure to dial down the violence - compromising the directors vision in the process. In an age where the whole film industry is filled with 12 rated fodder - Dredd is a breath of fresh air. I wish Dredd becomes a success, and hopefully it can signal a change for Hollywood to make more comic-book/ science-fiction/ action film's for adult's. As for Dredd, I really hope we get a sequel. The Dredd universe is so rich that the possibilties are endless - Judge Dredd kicking a** on Cursed Earth? Now there's a film I would gladly go pay to see.
DREDD 4/5
::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
So a wicked film as a whole! I think the film's comparison to The Raid is a tad unfair as both went into production at roughly around the same time. I thought it was a sterling effort from Pete Travis. I did have a thought though, if (hopefully) we do get a sequel, I believe the director's vision would be to stay in stylistic tone as the first film. But would there be room for character's like Judge Death or Walter to appear, seeing as Travis' film is grounded in a certain reality?
Quote from: AlpineNewt on 27 September, 2012, 07:52:53 PM
Good idea adogg.
I know many don't rate the opening chase seen too highly - what with the modern vehicles and such - but I loved it. I think it set the character up perfectly, Dredd's a hard bastard who won't stop until your cubed or dead and doesn't need any help doing it. I really couldn't help but grin all the way through that scene.
Alpine
I
loved the opening scene! I thought it set up the film perfectly, from the moment the perps hit that poor sod and splatter his remains on the windscreen, you knew you were in for one hell of a ride! You knew this is a Dredd film nothing like what you've seen before.
Quote from: Mabs on 29 September, 2012, 08:19:26 PM
And the scenes of a skating ramp hundreds of kilometres up in the middle of the sky-scraper showed the insanity of it all. I think his decision to shoot the film in South Africa brought an air of believability to the whole film.
For me that was a pretty scary scene. Can't stand heights!
Quote from: AlpineNewt on 30 September, 2012, 06:22:42 PM
Quote from: Mabs on 29 September, 2012, 08:19:26 PM
And the scenes of a skating ramp hundreds of kilometres up in the middle of the sky-scraper showed the insanity of it all. I think his decision to shoot the film in South Africa brought an air of believability to the whole film.
For me that was a pretty scary scene. Can't stand heights!
I concur! Those kids had some guts! If it was me i'd by lying flat on the floor praying to Grud! :D I have a phobia of heights, just the thought makes me queasy :(
QuoteIt was like Judge Dredd in The City of God.
I like that. It would really be something if the producers were able to launch a TV series of this (akin to City of Men), focusing on the lives of the people in that big MEG. I liked your write up.
Aaron
Quote from: adogg4629 on 01 October, 2012, 05:45:26 PM
QuoteIt was like Judge Dredd in The City of God.
I like that. It would really be something if the producers were able to launch a TV series of this (akin to City of Men), focusing on the lives of the people in that big MEG. I liked your write up.
Aaron
Thanks mate! Thats the first thing which hit me when watching it, that it seemed so real, like it was taking place in some of the most deprived and dangerous place in the world. And Ciry of God was the first thing which popped into my head (a brilliant film by the way). Its as if the writer/ director gave us a glimpse into our nightmare future. Thats one of the reasons why I found the film so thrilling and visceral (not to mention scary aswell!).
Yeah - I got so annoyed with Tony Smith's 'meh' review over at the Register (http://www.reghardware.com/2012/09/07/dredd_3d_film_review/), but with him stating he is a fan and actually making positive comments to the Stallone film tipped me over the edge enough that I decided to do something about it.
Anyway, I've reposted my riposte review for posterity below, though now I've started re-reading Dredd I've realised I've made a few mistakes, like the fact the lawgiver is indeed accurately sized (I seemed to remember as a wide-eyed 12 year old that it was a lot bigger).
In the process, I may also upset some people here with the content and tone. If it does, I apologise in advance, but I think I make the point...
QuoteI'm a 2000AD fan and totally despised Stallone's attempt. Mega City is a dystopia, and Judges are outnumbered, so how would you portray the world? The gritty, grotty dystopia portrayed in this film fits the bill perfectly as the gaudy shiny happy things that make other SF totally fail in my opinion, and makes them look, quite frankly, terrible. The film provides a perfect setting of Mega City One. Sure there could be a few more notions of 'future' put in, but that's just a matter of budget and in reality don't add anything meaningful to a film other than opportunities for product placement.
Yes, there are some things I would have made better. Dredd's bike could be a bit more of a monster - some hybrid of a Harley Davidson and the Batman Tumbler batbike minus the ridiculous gold trimmings in the comic would have been much more awesome than the Japanese tin that was used in the film. The lawgiver also didn't look mean enough to dish out Dredd law. That said, the crappy eagle and chain on the judge's uniform being removed and his general look to a more practical flak jacket, is actually worthwhile - even in the comic it looks unrealistic, unwieldy and crap. Similarly with the battle scarred helmet and dusty uniform just adds to how Judges are fighting a never ending battle - so I think 2012 Dredd makes him look better, more realistic and more potent as a result.
My view is that a lot of the aspects of the comic were well placed, and well thought out too, from the chopper posters, to the portrayal of fatties and so forth. The story didn't really lend itself to telling the story of Mega City, so only parting shots were shown to allow the viewers to concentrate on what's happening in the block. Tony Smith's view that Garland has pared down Dredd to any commando tough cop is ridiculous. What is Dredd other than the epitome of exactly that? The one liners were delivered, without being made into the climax of a ridiculous set piece as are cliches epitomised by Bond. Dredd delivers one liners in the dry, laconic and as a matter of fact manner we know and love, and that portrays his personality better as a result. The ending of the film is also typical Dredd: to paraphrase not to ruin it [spoiler]'just another day in the office, ma'am'[/spoiler] - short, sharp, succinct and 100% pure unadulterated Dredd.
Anderson's portrayal is admirable too. A slightly more fragile judge with a different take on the law than Dredd is apparent, and quite frankly great even though somewhat different (better IMO) than the comic. From the [spoiler]visit into the mind[/spoiler] to the [spoiler]'wait'[/spoiler] sequence, she develops in the film from a fragile no-hoper to a deliciously mean mind fucker, and in the process begins to overrule Dredd [spoiler]'He's a victim, not a perp'[/spoiler]. Naturally Dredd mostly gets his way [spoiler](third option: attack)[/spoiler] that any other Judge wouldn't logically choose and only Dredd would, could and does.
As a big fan of Drive, the artistic breaks shown in the slo-mo sequences were brilliant to give the viewer a totally unexpected, beautiful and welcome break from the relentlessness of the film. The director kept it tight and sweet without any lingering, yet in the process the artistic violence makes John Woo's best look like Bambi. The story is deeper than a simple take the block, but the fact it is so tight and doesn't linger too long in back stories that will only confuse non-Dredd readers leaves it open to make Dredd the franchise that he deserves. That said, the story is complete, with plenty of points of views to keep it interesting. Garland has made a story that isn't Garland-esque and generally slow and boring, but genuine and relentless.
Again, I disagree with Tony Smith - this film has not been made for the mass market at all. You have to like violence and gore. You have to appreciate Dredd is a cornier toon than Dirty Harry. You have to appreciate beautiful cinematography and you have to be able to think outside of the comic and into an original perception of Dredd's world if your a fan. But I think it's all done so brilliantly, it's actually in my view, an even more gritty and realistic view of Dredd's world than the comic.
Lastly Karl Urban's intimate knowledge having grown up himself reading Dredd does give the character the treatment he deserves. In fact, as an actor he's got into Dredd's carcass so well this is an award-winning performance - you don't really need to say more than that. He never takes the helmet off apart from the aforementioned shadow shot where he's putting it on. The chin, the voice, the grimace and Dredd's single minded 'Justice' and dryness is all perfect.
So no, Tony, I totally disagree with your critique. Justice has finally been done on film to the ultimate law giver. It's gritty, relentless, beautiful and makes absolutely bugger all attempt to appease itself to the mass market by fully embracing the violence and gore deserving an 18. It is so unexpectedly good and so astonishingly exceeding my expectations it really is fantastic.
Lets hope something similar will be done to my personal favourite 2000AD character: Rogue Trooper.
I hear you on some of those issues, but for me I forgot about them quickly once the film got going. I agree with the choice of making the city less dense. I am hoping that if (by some miracle) there is a sequel they can populate the skyline a bit more, but it is important to convey the scale of things and if it was too dense that would've been an issue.
Aaron
This thread couldn't have come at a better time, turns out my local cinema is showing an early midnight screening this friday and saturday before Dredd officially premiers in Holland on October 11, and on my birthday too! Woo hoo, awesome as der cucumber or what!
I'll tell you guys what I thought of it when I get back but I am pretty sure I'm bound to love it.
Congrats Cursed Earth Dweller. Happy birthday.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 02 October, 2012, 01:04:15 PM
This thread couldn't have come at a better time, turns out my local cinema is showing an early midnight screening this friday and saturday before Dredd officially premiers in Holland on October 11, and on my birthday too! Woo hoo, awesome as der cucumber or what!
I'll tell you guys what I thought of it when I get back but I am pretty sure I'm bound to love it.
wow! Its about time it premiered in Holland! Why so late? Anyhow, I'm pretty certain you'll like it CED! Do tell us how it went. : )
Quote from: Mabs on 02 October, 2012, 07:18:33 PMwow! Its about time it premiered in Holland! Why so late?
Search me, Hollands' always a little late with worldwide releases. My geuss is they wanted to wait for positive word of mouth before giving it a chance as the Dutch are more open minded toward general opinion rather then Box office earnings which I understand Dredd isn't doing so well at the moment.
Quote from: adogg4629 on 02 October, 2012, 06:44:48 PM
Congrats Cursed Earth Dweller. Happy birthday.
Thanks old cucumber!
I think my favourite scene in this is the exchange between Dredd and Lex. Before Lex is about to finish Dredd off, Dredd says "wait" and Lex goes off on one about him saying it. Dredd's punchline gets a laugh out of me every time. "I mean, wait for what? Another few seconds of life because you're so fucking weak that you can't stand to see it end!"? Dredd - "No...*gun fire* wait for her to shoot you!" It's the way Urban delivers that line that's so brilliant and funny.
Yeah Rusty, I remember that getting a big laugh (big considering there was only about 7 people in) in the cinema.
Some have criticized that scene asking how Dredd could have known she was there. Personally I had just assumed he saw her and was stalling until she had a clear shot.
I also liked when the big rogue Judge took the hi-ex to the head. Made me laugh and cringe at the same time.
You remember the part that Dredd breaks that rogue judges neck? Or more rightly slams his Lawgiver into his throat? That was some brutal sh*t right there! But you have to say he had it coming!
Quote from: AlpineNewt on 03 October, 2012, 06:01:12 PM
Yeah Rusty, I remember that getting a big laugh (big considering there was only about 7 people in) in the cinema.
Some have criticized that scene asking how Dredd could have known she was there. Personally I had just assumed he saw her and was stalling until she had a clear shot.
I also liked when the big rogue Judge took the hi-ex to the head. Made me laugh and cringe at the same time.
It's very Dirty Harry-esque. Even Urban's expression on his face reminds me of Eastwood.
Aahh, just got back from my sneak preview.
Loved it and can't really think of any praise that hasn't already been said but I will anyway.
I knew from Dredd's opening monologue that we were getting the movie we have all been waiting for, but when Dredd wasted his first perp with the awesomely delivered line "go right ahead, hot-shot!" my face transformed into a grin that I just couldn't wipe from my face throughout the rest of the film and only intensified whenever I heard words like "meat wagon", "recyk" and "high-ex".
This film does the comic justic on so many levels. I loved Dredd's deadpan humor, I loved Anderson's psycic mind propes(which the 3D used to great effect btw), I loved the little digs at the comic like the Chopper graffiti and the fattie who we see porking himself while Peach Tree's block is closing down(and who I have great affection for after reading the story "Reqiuem for a Heavyweight"), I loved Ma-Ma who totally fits the bill of the kind of criminals Dredd has to deal with, I loved how this film was able to get the most of it's reletively small budget and still manage to get so much of the comic in there. Of course this is speaking from a fans perspective and people totally unaware of the films source material will be baffled by these things without any backround or any refference to the Stallone films but who cares! This was clearly made for the fans, let that 95 film remain a minor cult hit with morons!
Some people say Ma Ma was a little underdeveloped but I disagree, I think the details the film provided were enough to give her some characterization. I mean [spoiler]working as a prostitute and getting your face cut by some pimp would turn any woman psycho[/spoiler] wouldn't it?
Standout moments? I geuss My two personal favs are Anderson giving that perp a lesson in psychic mindgames and Dredd's warning over the intercom(Ma-Ma's not the law here, I am the Law) before [spoiler]torching a gang of perps with an Incendiary round[/spoiler], that shit really made me repress the urge to jump out of my seat in a public theatre.
Also, I have to say that had there not been 3D showings of a few trailers I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference as this was my first 3D viewing but I can most certainly tell that 3D works in Dredd's favor. One of the 3D trailers was for some Underworld film and it looked like shit! All the close-up shots looked like moving cardboard images(although to be honest I'm not quite sure if the cinema I wen't to had a good 3D setup, the 3D in Dredd was impressive but not mindblowing).
I do have some issues with the film but they are so minor and insignificant that they are nothing more then a tiny mouse sitting on the back of a roaring lion with a jetpack because Dredd 3d or Dredd none 3D or whatever the hell you wan't to call it is just DAMN GOOD!
PS: Sorry if my comments are a little off-putting, I am a bit drunk.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 06 October, 2012, 02:45:47 AM
S: Sorry if my comments are a little off-putting, I am a bit drunk.
nothing off putting there... we all are!
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 06 October, 2012, 02:45:47 AM
Aahh, just got back from my sneak preview.
Loved it and can't really think of any praise that hasn't already been said but I will anyway.
I knew from Dredd's opening monologue that we were getting the movie we have all been waiting for, but when Dredd wasted his first perp with the awesomely delivered line "go right ahead, hot-shot!" my face transformed into a grin that I just couldn't wipe from my face throughout the rest of the film and only intensified whenever I heard words like "meat wagon", "recyk" and "high-ex".
This film does the comic justic on so many levels. I loved Dredd's deadpan humor, I loved Anderson's psycic mind propes(which the 3D used to great effect btw), I loved the little digs at the comic like the Chopper graffiti and the fattie who we see porking himself while Peach Tree's block is closing down(and who I have great affection for after reading the story "Reqiuem for a Heavyweight"), I loved Ma-Ma who totally fits the bill of the kind of criminals Dredd has to deal with, I loved how this film was able to get the most of it's reletively small budget and still manage to get so much of the comic in there. Of course this is speaking from a fans perspective and people totally unaware of the films source material will be baffled by these things without any backround or any refference to the Stallone films but who cares! This was clearly made for the fans, let that 95 film remain a minor cult hit with morons!
Some people say Ma Ma was a little underdeveloped but I disagree, I think the details the film provided were enough to give her some characterization. I mean [spoiler]working as a prostitute and getting your face cut by some pimp would turn any woman psycho[/spoiler] wouldn't it?
Standout moments? I geuss My two personal favs are Anderson giving that perp a lesson in psychic mindgames and Dredd's warning over the intercom(Ma-Ma's not the law here, I am the Law) before [spoiler]torching a gang of perps with an Incendiary round[/spoiler], that shit really made me repress the urge to jump out of my seat in a public theatre.
Also, I have to say that had there not been 3D showings of a few trailers I wouldn't have been able to tell the difference as this was my first 3D viewing but I can most certainly tell that 3D works in Dredd's favor. One of the 3D trailers was for some Underworld film and it looked like shit! All the close-up shots looked like moving cardboard images(although to be honest I'm not quite sure if the cinema I wen't to had a good 3D setup, the 3D in Dredd was impressive but not mindblowing).
I do have some issues with the film but they are so minor and insignificant that they are nothing more then a tiny mouse sitting on the back of a roaring lion with a jetpack because Dredd 3d or Dredd none 3D or whatever the hell you wan't to call it is just DAMN GOOD!
PS: Sorry if my comments are a little off-putting, I am a bit drunk.
Glad to hear that you liked it Cursed Earth Dweller! I agree with you that the 3D is really excellent especially in Anderson's interrogation scene. And for me the Slo-mo scenes were absolutely beautiful to watch in a strange way, seeing as most of it was when the perps were blown away to pieces! I thought the scene of the bullet tearing through that guys mouth/ face was both repulsive and beautiful at the same time! And I also agree that Ma-Ma was a great villainess, and I feel her character
was developed. This month's Meg had a great prologue story to Ma-Ma's origins. And it really helped to bridge her story to the film. In the end. I had a smidgeon of sympathy for her demise I have to say. One of my very small problems with the film was that it wasn't long enough! By the end I wanted MORE!
Anyway, great review! : )
Well I just got back from my second screening and found a few more things I liked about the film:
1) I like how Dredd sounds a bit like Robocop when he's not speaking in gravel tone.
2) When Judge Lex [spoiler]has Dredd cornered and Dredd baits him into stalling time long enough for Anderson to sneak up at shoot him[/spoiler], that bit soooo reminded me of "When you wan't to shoot, shoot! Don't talk" from The Good The Bad & The Ugly.
Quote from: MabsI thought the scene of the bullet tearing through that guys mouth/ face was both repulsive and beautiful at the same time!
That scene was indeed pleasantly brutal but for me the best 3D scenes(becides the Anderson bit) were Ma Ma playing in the bath and [spoiler]her slow-mo influenced plunge to death near the end which pretty much symbolised her downfall from a drug lord block owner to just another dead perp on her way to recyk[/spoiler].
One question about the bent Judges though: Judge Lex [spoiler]is a 20 year veteren as he states to Dredd in the film, does that mean he served longer then Dredd? Because if I remember correctly when the comic started Dredd was in service for about 15 years, maybe less[/spoiler].
Again, damn good film and hope to see the DVD out soon.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 07 October, 2012, 02:58:40 AM
Well I just got back from my second screening and found a few more things I liked about the film:
1) I like how Dredd sounds a bit like Robocop when he's not speaking in gravel tone.
2) When Judge Lex [spoiler]has Dredd cornered and Dredd baits him into stalling time long enough for Anderson to sneak up at shoot him[/spoiler], that bit soooo reminded me of "When you wan't to shoot, shoot! Don't talk" from The Good The Bad & The Ugly.
Quote from: MabsI thought the scene of the bullet tearing through that guys mouth/ face was both repulsive and beautiful at the same time!
That scene was indeed pleasantly brutal but for me the best 3D scenes(becides the Anderson bit) were Ma Ma playing in the bath and [spoiler]her slow-mo influenced plunge to death near the end which pretty much symbolised her downfall from a drug lord block owner to just another dead perp on her way to recyk[/spoiler].
One question about the bent Judges though: Judge Lex [spoiler]is a 20 year veteren as he states to Dredd in the film, does that mean he served longer then Dredd? Because if I remember correctly when the comic started Dredd was in service for about 15 years, maybe less[/spoiler].
Again, damn good film and hope to see the DVD out soon.
Thats what I thought - that he sounded like Robocop in a few scenes! ''You have 20 seconds to comply'' (at least I think it was 20!) :D
And yes, the Ma-Ma bath scene was also my favourite slo-mo moment. I mentioned it in my review, that it looked simply breath-taking, almost poetic.
That 'The Good The Bad, and The Ugly' similitude you pointed out is spot on! (by the way, its one of my favourite westerns ever).
I'm quite envious that you managed to watch the film again! Being a father of two kids, I rarely have time on my hands these days. So I was lucky enough to watch Dredd just the once! Like you, I cannot wait for the DVD to come out. : )
Funnily enough I'm trying to convince my old man to see it with me when it comes out next month, might go next weekend. I would have said try taking the kids befor it occured to me it would be a bit strange trying to sneek two minors into an 18+ film :o. Weirdly enough Dredd is certified 16+ in Holland as that is the highest age limit for adult films here.
That's remarkably irresponsible of Holland. I'd imagine that the country is a hellish post-apocalyptic landscape of teenage serial murderers, drug addicts, sexual perverts and that the Dutch as a race must spend their time invading foreign countries and committing mass murder of innocent populations. That must be what it's like, surely? After all, our government here in britain maintains that some movies can 'deprave and corrupt' young people if they are allowed to see them at a younger age than eighteen. And our government couldnt possibly be lying, in an effort to distract us from society's real problems. Nope. Never.
SBT
Shit, I mean next week, Dredd debuts NEXT WEEK! My kingdom for an edit button!
And quite frankly I think Britian is too concerned with whats up the queens arse to give a flying fuck about whats going on here but I am not interested in getting into political bigotry on a thread discussing an awesome film. I just live in Holland and life here is just fine. Why should I give a shit about what you find "remarkably irresponsible"?
Just so you know I stopped going on youtube to avoid making comments like this.
I think SBT was being ironic and insulting UK not Netherlands.
I know, my fuck up. Sometimes I can't tell when someones being sarcastic.
And I would agree that the age certificate here in Holland is a little irresponsible as it gives noisy little pre-teen shitheads an excuse to sit through good films, adult or not.
QuoteI knew from Dredd's opening monologue that we were getting the movie we have all been waiting for, but when Dredd wasted his first perp with the awesomely delivered line "go right ahead, hot-shot!" my face transformed into a grin that I just couldn't wipe from my face throughout the rest of the film and only intensified whenever I heard words like "meat wagon", "recyk" and "high-ex".
Couldn't agree more. I still get that grin when I think about it.
Aaron
Indeed, total Dirty Harry moment.
One of my favourite 'Mega City One Madness Moments' in the film was the bit at the start when the 'fattie' who was shot by the 'hot-shot' guy was being wheeled away, the floor cleaner was mopping up the blood and a bored sounding announcement was mentioned that the food court would open again in 15 minutes. Clearly in Mega City One random death is about as common as a food spill in a supermarket: "Clean up in aisle 5".
Since my account is not yet valid enough for me to post in the film discussion forum, I would like to adress a minor criticism I keep reading about in one of the review threads, that being that Dredd lacks any standout action sequences.
I think that is a load of shit. Putting some mindless action scene in Dredd would only imply that the film is trying to make up for plot substance and characterization, two things Dredd hardly suffers from and quite frankly if a high powered gattling gun tearing a whole block floor apart along with it's denizens is not action enough for you then your probably better off watching the latest Expendables flick. Because lets face it, all we really wan't to see from Dredd is him wasting a bunch of perps and that is exactly what we got. I think the action scenes in Dredd were good enough and if anything the film is treating it's intended demographic with respect by not including pointlessly epic action sequences that do nothing but waset time that could have better gone to said plot substance and characterization for the sake of appealing to thick audiences.
That is all.
Bit quite in here, oh well.
Dredd oficially debuts in Holland today but this will be my third viewing after my two sneak peaks last weekend :)
Quote from: DW2012 on 08 October, 2012, 08:34:56 PM
One of my favourite 'Mega City One Madness Moments' in the film was the bit at the start when the 'fattie' who was shot by the 'hot-shot' guy was being wheeled away, the floor cleaner was mopping up the blood and a bored sounding announcement was mentioned that the food court would open again in 15 minutes. Clearly in Mega City One random death is about as common as a food spill in a supermarket: "Clean up in aisle 5".
Despite keeping an eye out for the fattie I managed to completely miss him (assuming it was a him). Loads of other stuff I had read about but failed to spot. Couldn't afford to see it twice so I'll just have to wait for the DVD.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 11 October, 2012, 07:54:11 AM
Bit quite in here, oh well.
Dredd oficially debuts in Holland today but this will be my third viewing after my two sneak peaks last weekend :)
I feel envious of you now! :D
lol Thats not all, I'm checking it out again tomorrow with a mate and again on Sunday with my old man! That will be 5 times in total and I don't think I'll stop there.
This film honestly gets better every time I see it. Not just as the perfect Dredd film but a film that harkens back to the days of Die Hard and Assault on Presinct 13. And why stop there! Theres a bit of Blade Runner, Dirty Harry and even a bit of Natural Born Killers in this film. It's just nice to have a good flick that is so reminiscent of such classic films yet remains fresh without being buried in typical hollywood clichés.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 12 October, 2012, 10:39:44 PM
lol Thats not all, I'm checking it out again tomorrow with a mate and again on Sunday with my old man! That will be 5 times in total and I don't think I'll stop there.
This film honestly gets better every time I see it. Not just as the perfect Dredd film but a film that harkens back to the days of Die Hard and Assault on Presinct 13. And why stop there! Theres a bit of Blade Runner, Dirty Harry and even a bit of Natural Born Killers in this film. It's just nice to have a good flick that is so reminiscent of such classic films yet remains fresh without being buried in typical hollywood clichés.
I agree; there's a lot of film's which spring to mind when viewing Dredd! The first films which entered my head were Total Recall and Robocop! It brought me back to the 80's and early 90's - and I had a full blast nostalgia fest of all the violent action films I loved watching as a boy! :D
One of the things, often criticism, I've read people saying about Dredd is that it has no plot. I find this ridiculous in the extreme. It has a plot. It's just that the plot isn't a convoluted frenzy that can either bore you to fucking death, or confuse you to death. People just seem to be infatuated with films that try to be winning the Oscar these days rather than enjoying the simple things for what they are, and it's often the more simple things are, the more enjoyable they tend to be. However, in saying that, Taken 2 is by far one of the most simple plots you'll likely to come across, although how you can manage to fuck something up so bad with it being so simple is beyond me, and is a testament to the film's awfulness. I also find it curios that the same people who are critical of Dredd's so called lack of plot, don't say the same for Taken and point out how they enjoyed it, and there are a lot of those people around judging by the figures of that steaming turd. How a film as good as Dredd bombed while that shit rakes it in is beyond me, and it does nothing but confirm that the general public are a bunch of fucking morons. No doubt when Dredd hits DVD and becomes a cult classic, you'll get the same people coming out of the woodwork professing how cool Dredd is and that you must see it! Twats!
People like to judge movie plots by how they look on paper without even seeing the bloody film. A plots strength lies in it's execution, not weather it looks good on paper or not. In Dredd's case the simple plot is merely a backround for the audience(if they can be bothered) to study how Dredd does his job and how Anderson developes into a Judge while retaining her humanity.
Whatever crtitism of Dredd I have come across has been few and far between and it's mostly if not all of the ignorant cretinouse nature.
And quite frankly, I can care less if Dredd bombs or not. The critical praise for me is enough to wash the stain of the 95 film and I am more then content with having Dredd the best cult classic we've seen since Sin City(in terms of comic flicks that is).
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 07 October, 2012, 02:58:40 AM
2) When Judge Lex [spoiler]has Dredd cornered and Dredd baits him into stalling time long enough for Anderson to sneak up at shoot him[/spoiler], that bit soooo reminded me of "When you wan't to shoot, shoot! Don't talk" from The Good The Bad & The Ugly.
There is a little continuity flaw with the [spoiler]wait[/spoiler] sequence - how did Dredd know [spoiler]to delay[/spoiler] Lex? Did [spoiler]Anderson 'mind ping' Dredd to tell him she'd broken free[/spoiler] and was coming down or did Dredd just [spoiler]expect her[/spoiler] to provide backup?
My bet (and hope) is on the former, as it makes it deliciously tactical.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 07 October, 2012, 02:58:40 AMMa Ma playing in the bath
Agreed. Beautiful too. And also really balanced the film's violence and relentlessness with moments of calm to stop and reflect what's happening (especially for us fans!).
Generally, I found that Dredd's tone throughout the film being totally deadpan and not as I said earlier 'a ridiculous Bond-style climax to a set piece' benefits Dredd's portrayal that much better.
Quote from: Rusty on 13 October, 2012, 08:10:25 PMNo doubt when Dredd hits DVD and becomes a cult classic, you'll get the same people coming out of the woodwork professing how cool Dredd is and that you must see it!
I fully expect this to happen. The US and all bad critiques either still remember the travesty of Stallone Dredd and avoided this one like the plague as a result (I would've too if I didn't know better and wasn't a fan). Or they're a bunch of film ponces who are comparing it to The Raid which is a baseless argument as it's a completely different story and execution (I'm not a fan of blatant fight choreography, unless it looks like a real fight).
Nevertheless, I've been telling loads of people, both Dredd and non-Dredd fans alike to just go and bloody well watch it because it's truly excellent whether you are or aren't a Dredd fan. Slowly, but surely I think it'll be a sure-fire hit, but underground (or should I say Mega City) style... I just hope Alex & Co hits the $50m target so we get MORE!
Quote from: MrHorizontal on 15 October, 2012, 04:31:56 PM
There is a little continuity flaw with the [spoiler]wait[/spoiler] sequence - how did Dredd know [spoiler]to delay[/spoiler] Lex? Did [spoiler]Anderson 'mind ping' Dredd to tell him she'd broken free[/spoiler] and was coming down or did Dredd just [spoiler]expect her[/spoiler] to provide backup?
My bet (and hope) is on the former, as it makes it deliciously tactical.
lol Aw come on man! Here I am enjoying the reference I made with the scene and you have to come over and tell me it's a plot-hole, thanks a lot.
Seriously though, things like that don't come to my mind when I'm enjoying a good film and even when they do I don't let them bother me that much. I'm just not the kind of person that puts too nuch faith in movie realism.
To answere your question though, I would go with the former as well since I believe that [spoiler]Anderson needs to be in close proximity to scan someones mind[/spoiler]
Quote from: MrHorizontalAgreed. Beautiful too. And also really balanced the film's violence and relentlessness with moments of calm to stop and reflect what's happening (especially for us fans!).
Have you ever seen a japanese flick called Zatoichi, by directer Takeshi Kitano? That film uses digitally rendered blood which makes all the violent swordplay look rather pretty, dare I say artistic and keep the film from being pointlessly gory. I think the 3D and slow-mo scenes work for Dredd the same way, although I geuss the violence in Dredd has a point to it in that it reflects how bleak and violent Mega City 1 is.
Quote from: MrHorizontalGenerally, I found that Dredd's tone throughout the film being totally deadpan and not as I said earlier 'a ridiculous Bond-style climax to a set piece' benefits Dredd's portrayal that much better.
Exactly, Dredd is one of those "less-is-more" films that deliveres on a practical scale rather then an overly epic scope of things like the 95 film.
This is also why I will probably consider Dredd a better film then the Raid when I get round to watching it eventually but quit frankly, the Raid strikes as a film that only delivers on an a level of none-stop action which is nice but a tad bit shallow. Have you seen in by the way?
Sorry, I mean "seen it". Damn this timed edit!
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 16 October, 2012, 11:56:54 AM
lol Aw come on man! Here I am enjoying the reference I made with the scene and you have to come over and tell me it's a plot-hole, thanks a lot.
Seriously though, things like that don't come to my mind when I'm enjoying a good film and even when they do I don't let them bother me that much. I'm just not the kind of person that puts too nuch faith in movie realism.
To answere your question though, I would go with the former as well since I believe that [spoiler]Anderson needs to be in close proximity to scan someones mind[/spoiler]
I didn't mean to point it out in a bad light... it's just that it had to make me think why he did that, and by the very virtue I was doing that in this film actually pays homage to its quality. Compare and contrast something like Expendables 2, where you don't have to think very much (though I enjoyed that film a lot as it didn't take itself seriously).
So on the one hand you can put it down to continuity, but on the other you can put it down to some sort of suspense in a whodunnit how sort of way...
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 16 October, 2012, 11:56:54 AMHave you ever seen a japanese flick called Zatoichi, by directer Takeshi Kitano? That film uses digitally rendered blood which makes all the violent swordplay look rather pretty, dare I say artistic and keep the film from being pointlessly gory. I think the 3D and slow-mo scenes work for Dredd the same way, although I geuss the violence in Dredd has a point to it in that it reflects how bleak and violent Mega City 1 is.
AHA! Now you're talking at my level. Yup, Zatoichi the blind samurai is fantastic. If you like those films, I strongly suggest you watch another called Twilight Samurai, which is even better though not Takeshi Kitano, and there's another film that's about to hit our shores called Rurouni Kenshin, which is almost an exact replica of one of the best Anime's around (see http://kotaku.com/5938365/the-live-action-rurouni-kenshin-movie-is-a-nearly-perfect-film-adaptation for a review).
But in Dredd, I personally saw references to Drive though, which has gone down into one of my 'top 10' films as it's just excellent on many levels.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 16 October, 2012, 11:56:54 AMExactly, Dredd is one of those "less-is-more" films that deliveres on a practical scale rather then an overly epic scope of things like the 95 film.
This is also why I will probably consider Dredd a better film then the Raid when I get round to watching it eventually but quit frankly, the Raid strikes as a film that only delivers on an a level of none-stop action which is nice but a tad bit shallow. Have you seen in by the way?
No - not watched the Raid yet, but I have it on my watchlist. From what I've read though it's about the fight choreography, which is a bit meh and Matrix-esque to me, and doesn't amazingly add to a film, unless you're using actors who can actually fight properly (see Ong Bak), and I will be going into watching that film with that frame of mind.
Currently though I'm a bit overloaded between some seriously good telly (Homeland), re-reading Dredd progs from the beginning and an absolute megaton of work, so I'm literally planning when I can shit to fit it all in!
I have low hopes I'll get to see this in cinemas in my neck of the woods, unfortunately. The fact that it is supposed to open next week, yet you still can't order tickets online for it (where everything else can be advance booked for), pretty much confirms my worst fears, that the poor US showing will mean that this gets a very limited Australian run, and that limitation always seems to miss my state entirely. Which always seems to happen with the few films that I'm most interesting in seeing.
Hope I'm wrong though, as I've been hanging out to see the film for what seems like forever now. Got a feeling that I'll be importing from the UK when it hits shiny disc though.
Oh, and just for the record, Takeshi Kitano's version of Zatoichi was superb.
Quote from: MrHorizontal on 16 October, 2012, 12:38:03 PMI didn't mean to point it out in a bad light... it's just that it had to make me think why he did that, and by the very virtue I was doing that in this film actually pays homage to its quality. Compare and contrast something like Expendables 2, where you don't have to think very much (though I enjoyed that film a lot as it didn't take itself seriously).
I think the switching my brain off factor doesn't work so well for modern action flicks like Expendables 2 since they just seem to parody 80's flicks which were a parody in and of themselfs. Or mayebe it's because I just don't like anything with Stallone in it(nothing to do with Dredd 95 mind you).
Quote from: MrHorizontalAHA! Now you're talking at my level. Yup, Zatoichi the blind samurai is fantastic. If you like those films, I strongly suggest you watch another called Twilight Samurai, which is even better though not Takeshi Kitano, and there's another film that's about to hit our shores called Rurouni Kenshin, which is almost an exact replica of one of the best Anime's around (see http://kotaku.com/5938365/the-live-action-rurouni-kenshin-movie-is-a-nearly-perfect-film-adaptation for a review).
I have heard good things about Twilight Samurai which is pretty overdue on my to-watch list at this point.
I never watched the Rurouni Kenshin animated series or read the comic (or manga rather) but I do have the 4 part mini series called Samurai X, does this live action film have anything to do with that?
Quote from: MrHorizontalCurrently though I'm a bit overloaded between some seriously good telly (Homeland), re-reading Dredd progs from the beginning and an absolute megaton of work, so I'm literally planning when I can shit to fit it all in!
I know what you mean, I am currently stuck with a whole stackload of the 2000ad phonebook catalog which consists of Judge Dredd, Strontium Dog, Rogue Trooper, Nemesis and ABC Warriors.
Quote from: Judge FishOh, and just for the record, Takeshi Kitano's version of Zatoichi was superb.
Indeed, but I prefer not to compare it with the original series of films starring Shintaro Katsu and think of it as a standalone Kitano film. Love the character though.
And while we're on the subject of Kitano films, I watched Outrage recently. Brutally unpleasant to say the least, even for Kitano standards.
Zatoichi kicks ass! :D
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 17 October, 2012, 11:28:21 AM
I think the switching my brain off factor doesn't work so well for modern action flicks like Expendables 2 since they just seem to parody 80's flicks which were a parody in and of themselfs. Or mayebe it's because I just don't like anything with Stallone in it(nothing to do with Dredd 95 mind you).
lol. Well I'm certainly not going to defend Stallone or Expendables 2.
I was just saying that's a film you couldn't care less about plot holes, because it's crap and doesn't make you want to pay attention.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 17 October, 2012, 11:28:21 AMI have heard good things about Twilight Samurai which is pretty overdue on my to-watch list at this point.
On the other hand, this is a great film. Quite harrowing at times, but it's a story of how honour can lead to demise and then vindication. In a rigid society like feudal Japan, this is life and death business.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 17 October, 2012, 11:28:21 AMI never watched the Rurouni Kenshin animated series or read the comic (or manga rather) but I do have the 4 part mini series called Samurai X, does this live action film have anything to do with that?
Samurai X and Rurouni Kenshin are used interchangeably - you most probably have the Trust & Betrayal OVA, which is a concise version of the whole story that fills in pieces the film misses and without the padding of the series.
While there are a couple of other OVA's that present arcs (Reflections & Cage of Flames), the film (Requiem for Patriots), the 3-season/95-episode series and the Trust & Betrayal OVA are 3 different representations of the same base story, so I'd expect this new film to depict this.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 17 October, 2012, 11:28:21 AM
Quote from: Judge FishOh, and just for the record, Takeshi Kitano's version of Zatoichi was superb.
Indeed, but I prefer not to compare it with the original series of films starring Shintaro Katsu and think of it as a standalone Kitano film. Love the character though.
And while we're on the subject of Kitano films, I watched Outrage recently. Brutally unpleasant to say the least, even for Kitano standards.
Hadn't heard of Outrage yet... on my watchlist now. We just don't get exposure to these films in the UK :(
BTW - If anyone doesn't know who Kitano is, then you have a
duty to watch Battle Royale and in the process earn the right to completely destroy a Hollywood teenage angst movie released earlier this year.
Quote from: Cursed Earth Dweller on 17 October, 2012, 11:28:21 AM
Quote from: Judge FishOh, and just for the record, Takeshi Kitano's version of Zatoichi was superb.
Indeed, but I prefer not to compare it with the original series of films starring Shintaro Katsu and think of it as a standalone Kitano film. Love the character though.
And while we're on the subject of Kitano films, I watched Outrage recently. Brutally unpleasant to say the least, even for Kitano standards.
Still haven't seen Outrage, not sure why. Just seems to have been one of those films that I meant to watch but never quite got around to. I really should rectify that. In fact, isn't there a sequel to Outrage coming out soon?
As for the original Zatoichi, those were indeed great fun. I haven't watched those for the longest time, but I went on a huge Samurai kick quite a few years back after being introduced to the greatness of Kurasawa, and then tearing through any film of his I could find. I then went about making my way through all of the Zatoichi films (I still haven't seen the 70's tv series though), as well as stuff like the One Armed Swordsman, Lone Wolf & Cub, Mifune's Samurai trilogy, the Satan's Sword trilogy, Lady Snowblood, the Crimson Bat series, and so on. Good times.
Quote from: Judge Fish on 17 October, 2012, 02:00:00 AM
I have low hopes I'll get to see this in cinemas in my neck of the woods, unfortunately. The fact that it is supposed to open next week, yet you still can't order tickets online for it (where everything else can be advance booked for), pretty much confirms my worst fears, that the poor US showing will mean that this gets a very limited Australian run, and that limitation always seems to miss my state entirely. Which always seems to happen with the few films that I'm most interesting in seeing.
Hope I'm wrong though, as I've been hanging out to see the film for what seems like forever now. Got a feeling that I'll be importing from the UK when it hits shiny disc though.
Oh, and just for the record, Takeshi Kitano's version of Zatoichi was superb.
why do other countries defer to yank tastes so much? there have been loads of films (someone broke down how well the golden compass did outside the states) that have done serious money despite the yanks not liking it. They have their tastes but why would they automatically translate to oz? is it a case of cultural cringe?
^Its a damn fu****g shame if you ask me. :-\
Because men in suits tend to take their cues from other men in suits, and the mecca for being a corporate suit is surely America, thus that is where such people tend take their default cues from, unless something else proves another way (such as a film already being a big hit elsewhere, and thus 'worth the risk').
Depressing really.
Quote from: MrHorizontal linklol. Well I'm certainly not going to defend Stallone or Expendables 2.
I was just saying that's a film you couldn't care less about plot holes, because it's crap and doesn't make you want to pay attention.
Oh I know what you mean, I'm just saying I prefer the classics like Commando and Conan the Barbarian and to an extent Total Recall. Those films to me are the ultimate in mindless testothstrone pump action fun. Todays flicks like the afformentioned Expendables just make it too gimmicky.
Quote from: MrHorizontalOn the other hand, this is a great film. Quite harrowing at times, but it's a story of how honour can lead to demise and then vindication. In a rigid society like feudal Japan, this is life and death business.
I've always digged the japanese code of honor, especially the Samurai's.
Quote from: MrHorizontalWhile there are a couple of other OVA's that present arcs (Reflections & Cage of Flames), the film (Requiem for Patriots), the 3-season/95-episode series and the Trust & Betrayal OVA are 3 different representations of the same base story, so I'd expect this new film to depict this.
So in other words they are all different versions of the same story. I find this convenient as I have heard the 3 season/95 episode series can be a bit of a drag.
Interestingly, I always thought the feature film was set after the events of Samurai X Trust & Betrayal.
Quote from: MrHorizontalHadn't heard of Outrage yet... on my watchlist now. We just don't get exposure to these films in the UK
It's availabe on Amazonuk. He's made a few films before that which I haven't really looked into.
Regarding Outrage, it's a good ganster flick but don't expect any of the light humor or human sympathy from films like Sonatine or Hana-bi. In this film everyone is a bit of a bastard, even Kitano.
Quote from: MrHorizontalBTW - If anyone doesn't know who Kitano is, then you have a duty to watch Battle Royale and in the process earn the right to completely destroy a Hollywood teenage angst movie released earlier this year.
Ah, Battle Royal. I geuss that film was everyone's exposure to Kitano in the west let alone what a sick film that was at the time, although in hindsite I prefer the original novel by Koushun Takami.
Quote from: Judge FishAs for the original Zatoichi, those were indeed great fun. I haven't watched those for the longest time, but I went on a huge Samurai kick quite a few years back after being introduced to the greatness of Kurasawa, and then tearing through any film of his I could find. I then went about making my way through all of the Zatoichi films (I still haven't seen the 70's tv series though), as well as stuff like the One Armed Swordsman, Lone Wolf & Cub, Mifune's Samurai trilogy, the Satan's Sword trilogy, Lady Snowblood, the Crimson Bat series, and so on. Good times.
Ah, Lone Wolf and Cub! I still regard those films as massively ahead of their time in terms of the gory violence and use of practical effects. Talk about a successful blend of action, violence and human drama, this stuff is the cream of the crop for samurai flicks and Tomisaburo Wakayame is a total badass with the sword who can give even Mifune a run for his money! And I'll damn near watch any flick where Mifune carries a sword! Sword of Doom and Samurai Rebellion are pretty damn good films as well.