The Political Thread

[Hawkmumbler]

Not capitalism; corporatism.

They're synonymous, though....

[Funt Solo]

It does seem like a bit of a task to try and separate them. I found this:




The problem I have understanding it is how you avoid what's happening on the right. I suppose you could argue that government intervention could (should?) step in to avoid what's happening on the right - you know - legislating against monopolies or something (but then they're being manipulated by the monsters they've allowed to come into existence).

I thing it's amusing that there's no context for "Someone has a bright idea so forms a company" - yes - if they have opportunities afforded them. Being born into a capitalist (or corporate) society means you'll already be an on an uneven field.

Anyway - fascist ideology is on the rise.

[The Legendary Shark]

Capitalism will never work properly because it is based on an illusion. Corporatism is even worse because it deifies that illusion.

[TordelBack]

The terrible failures of Communist systems operating under relentless external economic and military assault from the moment of their birth are tiny stumbles compared to the universal global annihilation that unchallenged Socialised Capitalism has brought us to.

That's the real End of History; not a metaphor, not an imaginary story.

[milstar]

Capitalism will never work properly because it is based on an illusion. Corporatism is even worse because it deifies that illusion.

I could say the same for the communism. In fact, I see them both as two opposite sides of the same coin. Which is globalism.

The terrible failures of Communist systems operating under relentless external economic and military assault from the moment of their birth are tiny stumbles compared to the universal global annihilation that unchallenged Socialised Capitalism has brought us to.

I wouldn't call tens of millions of dead under Stalin and Mao as tiny stumbles.

In general, I figured, if there is a left, then there should be right. And vice versa. Two have to serve as counterpoint to each other, where flaws of left are, the right can thrive, and again - vice  versa.

[Hawkmumbler]

Neither Stalinism nor Maoism in action where truly communist in their disciplines, and the continued suggestion they where is about as grounded in observable history as Hitler being a leftie because hey, it was the National 'Socialist' Party, right?

[CalHab]

There's no "true" communism, I don't think. Every implementation has been flawed and partial.

There's also no "true" capitalism for the same reason.

Personally, I just look around the world at countries who have systems that seem the most humane and liveable. By that metric Scandi/NZ style Social Democracy seems like the best compromise (to me at least) in a difficult world.

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes", as the great philosopher once said.

[CalHab]

And I am aware that I am now a "centrist Dad".

[milstar]

Neither Stalinism nor Maoism in action where truly communist in their disciplines, and the continued suggestion they where is about as grounded in observable history as Hitler being a leftie because hey, it was the National 'Socialist' Party, right?

To me, that's the communism in purest form. Because of trying to reach an ideal no matter the consequences. About Hitler, I can see salient point there, but to me, he was rather a centrist. Which, I should be wary how I put, because I consider myself centrist. And political spectrum does places him there (although political spectrum says that I am a bit on the left and authoritarian lol). Total left - Stalin, Hitler - middle, Thatcher - right. All authoritarian. Ofcourse, Thatcher was the least malevolent of the three. I think we can all agree that both left and the right can be very totalitarian and pro-censorship.

[TordelBack]

I wouldn't call tens of millions of dead under Stalin and Mao as tiny stumbles.

Versus the extinction of most life on this planet, and the destruction of human civilisation that capitalism is delivering?  Yeah, stumbles.

[Leigh S]

I'm not sure Scandi is particularly Centrist - or at least with regards how UK politics is run, its in line with Corbynism so "extreme left" by that measure!

And I am aware that I am now a "centrist Dad".

[milstar]

I wouldn't call tens of millions of dead under Stalin and Mao as tiny stumbles.

Versus the extinction of most life on this planet, and the destruction of human civilisation that capitalism is delivering?  Yeah, stumbles.

Are we going to count the victims of Stalin + Mao + Castro vs the victims of unnecessary wars in the name of capitalism?  Not discrediting the latter, but the former has a pretty big death toll.

[IndigoPrime]

I'm not sure Scandi is particularly Centrist - or at least with regards how UK politics is run, its in line with Corbynism so "extreme left" by that measure!

They're mixed economies. Plenty of capitalism and competition, but also with a stronger social underpinning than the UK has. That said, Scandi/Nordic countries often have a quite conservative core, and so vary quite a lot politically. (Iceland, for example, mostly returns coalitions led by politicians that in the UK would have sat somewhere in the Cameron-era Conservative Party.)

[TordelBack]

Castro? A weekend in Iraq in 2003 courtesy of "the world's largest economies" would put his lifetime total to shame. With none of the benefits.

And again, I'd point out that capitalism, as the only game in town, is in the possibly-unstoppable process of wiping out most of the animal life on this planet, including us. Its mantra of unending "growth", by which it means "accumulation", without any consequences is analogous to carving up your own legs for your dinner when you're not even hungry The Musks of this world are betting it's actually someone else's thigh rashers on the buffet plate, because that's how it looks in the short term, but they're wrong.

[IndigoPrime]

It's beginning to sink in with some—albeit too late—that capitalism is essentially a pyramid scheme in its current form. We should be aiming to realign business success with new targets that aren't endless growth. Alas.