The Political Thread

[TordelBack]

I wonder how many people in much worse situations than mine have bowed to bullying and been evicted or had possessions siezed under invalid warrants. I can see that it makes sense for me to give in and toe the line from a personal standpoint, and I have been thinking about little else today, but I find that I simply can't do it, you know?

Wasn't suggesting you cave, Sharky, merely that you do your utmost to prevent the situation from affecting your health, and keep that at the forefront of your efforts.  You're no good to anyone in hospital or worse. 

Martyrs? We don' need no stinkin' martyrs.  Stay strong and stay strong.

[The Legendary Shark]

I know you weren't suggesting that, mate, but I have been considering it, much to my own chagrin.

In other news, U.S. Posties expecting trouble?

[Dandontdare]

I've avoided getting involved so far but I'm getting seriously worried about your welfare mate.

I initially assumed that you were being evicted because you were a victim of the pernicious bedroom tax or had your benefits denied for some spurious reason. Am I right in saying that you could stay in your flat with no problems if you had allowed HB to pay the rent?

If that's the case then I'm perplexed. You must accept the concept of "money" in some sense - you use it to buy food (and comics) and you get it from work or benefits. Your arguments about the inherent nonsense of the  monetary supply system are spot on, but as you know you can't avoid it altogether.

You have been candid about your mental health problems in the past, and without dismissing your (entirely reasonable) arguments, do you think that your decision making may be impaired at all? You are NOT wrong in your opinions, but I think you may be obsessing so much on points of principal that your current course of action constitutes self-destructive behaviour.

I don't know if you have regular contact with your GP or have any involvement with MH professionals, but if so I'd be interested to know their opinion of this - the smartest, most well meaning people can make bad decisions when affected by depression or any form of mental health problem, and it's the duty of MH professionals to protect their clients from making self-destructive decisions.

Please don't think I'm dismissing your concerns - you are so right in everything you say about the basic underpinning of our capitalist system, but I cannot see how this course of action will benefit you in any way.

Basically, the monetary system we live under is both INSANE and CORRUPT - you explain why this is the case better than anyone I've ever heard, and please God, never stop doing this. However, to make yourself homeless on a point of principle will change nothing except ruining your life.

If we live under an insane and corrupt system that oppresses the common man, that's bad - but why not allow one part of the insane and corrupt system (ie DWP) to shuffle 'non-existent' money to another part of the corrupt and insane system (ie the housing dept)  allowing you to stay in your home?

Please don't be offended, my comments are meant with huge amounts of respect for your position and genuine concern for your welfare. I think that some boarders here haven't been doing you any favours in supporting a course of action that will eventually prove very self destructive for you.

Practical advice? get the council to rescind the eviction on the understanding that you'll claim housing benefit. It's no more of a cop out than spending (non-existent) cash to buy your weekly necessities (ie food and thrillpower).

Personal advice? Look after yourself mate. I am lost in admiration of your understanding about just how ridiculous, corrupt and bat-shit crazy our economy is, but when the pigs are dragging you out your front door, technicalities such as whether they are officers or constables are frankly worth shit.

As for contacting your mum - that was just downright shitty behaviour, and you should pursue all official complaints channels about that.

Hope I haven't offended you at all in my analysis - bottom line: KEEP FIGHTING THE GOOD FIGHT - BUT PICK YOUR BATTLES!

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

I echo Dandontdare's concern.

You are well within your rights to make this protest, and good luck to you, but, as I understand it, the council has no choice but to evict someone who refuses to pay their rent. I would expect that to be the outcome of this stand-off, and I have great sympathy for the public servants who are having to deal with the issue.

If you understand that you'll probably lose your home, have somewhere else to go if/when that happens and are using this whole thing to get publicity for your cause, then as I say, good luck to you.

Otherwise, I would suggest backing down gracefully might be an excellent option right about now.

[The Legendary Shark]

DDD and JBA, thank you for your well constructed and sincere posts. I have read them several times and considered what you say - and I will keep your advice in mind as I move forward. Just about everything you say is valid, insightful (especially the bits about how cool I am  ) and compassionate and I truly appreciate and am humbled by your concern for me.


The only thing I really didn't like was the suggestion that those who have posted their support are doing me a disservice. I find every post on this thread to be helpful and humbly beg that nobody stop posting- whether you agree with what I'm doing or not. However, as I think this suggestion was intended to prevent me from blindly continuing on my course thinking that messages of support validate whatever I do no matter what, I just want to reassure everyone that you are not egging me on. I'm not criticising this suggestion, it is a valid concern, but I would like to say that I don't consider myself to be easily led or influenced by the flattery of agreement or support. Keep on posting!


Mental health. Yes, I do have what modern society deems to be mental health problems but they are mild compared to what other folks go through. In fact, it often feels disingenuous to even mention them when I think of, for example, the challenges faced by Brett Ewins or Spike Milligan. The MPs I've been diagnosed with are depression, anxiety, agoraphobia and borderline paranoia. I often wonder if these really are mental problems or simply a part of my natural psychological makeup, which modern society wants to normalize so I can 'fit in'. In past times I would probably be the village hermit or something. My MPs, I think, effect my emotions rather than my cogitative faculties. When I was on medication for this my emotions were under control, flat and grey, but I was unable to think clearly and writing a post like this would have been practically impossible.


When I was on the medication my mind was truly open - but not in a good way. Thoughts and ideas and suggestions and orders, often contradictory, would drift in and out of my head effortlessly and with very littlte, if any, critical analysis. Everything was neutral and nothing mattered. My world was flat. When someone rang the doorbell I'd simply shuffle to the door and open it without thinking or feeling, as if I were little more than a butler-droid. When the doorbell rings now, the first thing I feel is a surge of fear - my anxiety kicking in. Then my paranoia takes over and I look through my little spy-hole to see who it is so I can decide whether to let the caller in, speak through an open but security chained door or ignore them completely. I have come to realise that these intense emotions I experience in certain situations are not monsters to be quashed by drugs but monsters to be kept on a leash through mental control - the guard dogs of my mind, so to speak. I think (I hope!) that most of the people from this board who have met me in the flesh would agree that I can function fairly well in the real world outside my front door, even though I don't really enjoy it. I might be a bit twitchy when I'm out or in the company of new people but I can at least have lucid conversations and 'join in' instead of being a dull spanner just nodding and not able to pay attention.


I believe that my 'MPs' are actually helpful to me in making decisions and thinking about things these days. As an example, whenever I read a post on this thread (or anywhere, for that matter) my borderline paranoia activates in the background - who's posting this and why? Is it someone trying to manipulate, confuse, conscript or otherwise trick me? If so, why? Having these irrational thoughts at the back of my mind can, of course, be uncomfortable and unsettling but, when kept under control, act as a kind of 'spider-sense' and help me to be more critical of things that I might otherwise accept without question.


Of course, there is always the possibility that everything I've written above is a complete crock - it's dicficult to be entirely certain when you're on the inside looking out. I've typed this long and dull explanation of my MPs not to garner sympathy but to, hopefully, put the minds of those lovely people on this board who, for some inexplicable reason, have grown to care about me and my welfare, to rest. I hope that I have at least partially achieved that.


Thirdly, I come to my second point; why the Hell am I doing this? Well, it's not just about the nature of money and such abstract notions but the noxious effects of such abstracts on the real world. There is so much I could write about this (as you are all painfully aware!) but I will concentrate on one real world example to illuminate the position I'm in: the warrant presented to me by the bailiffs last monday.


Irrespective of why this warrant was issued, I want to explain the process that has happened so far as best as I comprehend it just in relation to this one thing. The Council claims that a court proceeding has taken place, in a court in another county I might add, and that as a result of that proceeding a warrant was issued to repossess this flat.


Quite simply, what the council is claiming has happened is inaccurate and I'll tell you for why:


1: The room in which this procedure took place may well have been held in a court building but hire of that room was not paid for by the Ministry of Justice but by a council - either my own or the council in the county containing the court building.


2: The judge presiding was not appearing there under his or her Oath of Office. In short, the judge was appearing in much the same capacity as a police constable moonlighting as a security guard on days off. The judge was therefore in attendance as a private citizen with no more power over me than any other private citizen.


3: I did not stand accused of a crime.


4: There was no jury.


5: There was neither counsel for the prosecution nor counsel for the defence.


6: There was no stenographer and no public record.


7: No charges have been brought against me or warrants issued for my arrest due to failure to attend or contempt of court.


The seven main points above indicate that no court proceeding has taken place - there was a proceeding in a court building but this is not at all the same thing. This is how I knew that the repossession warrant was invalid, at best, or fraudulent, at worse. Sure enough, when the bailiff attended to serve this 'warrant' I knew it to be invalid before he even opened his mouth. I asked to see the judge's signature on the warrant but, of course, signature there was none because of the above mentioned moonlighting status of the judge. I also put the above seven points to the bailiff, who could find no counter argument and was forced to withdraw or risk facing prosecution himself. The council officials simply ignored my points and refused to investigate or even acknowledge them.


The bailiffs will return but their warrant will still be invalid.


The local bobby has told me that the police are forbidden to interfere with an eviction unless a breach of the peace ensues - the police cannot kick my door in and drag me out unless I'm committing a crime - say by threatening or visiting violence. Anyone, bailiffs included, who try to break the door down are easily thwarted - all I have to do is stand pressed against the door and any violence against the door which impacts upon me becomes assault, in which case I can call the police. Same thing if they do gain access and try to physically remove me - the second anyone lays hands on me without my consent they are guilty of assault.


Okay, that's a lot to take in and I'm sorry for this massive and boring post. Of course, there is a great deal more that I could write about other aspects of my situation, lawful and legal aspects, practicalities, abstracts, arguments, dangers, pitfalls and so on and on, but we all need to sleep sometime, right?


The main reason for me writing this was to hopefully demonstrate to those of you out there who are worried about me (and God bless you for your humanity and concern) that this is not some irrational adventure in rebellion but an attempt to force the ckuncil to deal with me on equal and, above all, lawful terms.


Sure, they can get me evicted - but only if they cheat.

[ZenArcade]

Well put sharky. I for one (and I can only speak for myself) would never by any conscious intent wish to either directly or by association egg you on. All I can do is to provide as much moral support to you in this trying time for you as I possibly can. Thanks to Dandontdare for his post which again shows such insightful and heartfelt concern for your wellbeing. Z

[TordelBack]

I for one (and I can only speak for myself) would never by any conscious intent wish to either directly or by association egg you on. All I can do is to provide as much moral support to you in this trying time for you as I possibly can. Thanks to Dandontdare for his post which again shows such insightful and heartfelt concern for your wellbeing. Z

My feelings precisely.  I don't want to sound like I'm urging you along on a potentially injurious course of action, or to claim that your arguments convince me or suggest that everything is going to work out for the best if you hold to your current course, but I do very much want to offer my (completely impotent) support to you and for whatever considered choices you make as an individual.  You're alright in my book, Sharky, and I'd like you to stay that way.  I also fervently hope that you win, for whatever definition of victory you're prepared to accept.

[Trout]

They're right, you know.

Your political reasons for doing this are irrelevant. If you continue on this course of action you will have nowhere to live. It's self-destructive. It's bad for you.

Sharky, talk to the council. Accept help. They're only people doing a job and I bet they will help if you let them.

I've made no secret of the fact that I don't share your principles, but you seem like a nice guy and it grieves me to see your principles putting you such a bad place. Nobody will think less of you if you suspend the political campaign just enough to secure a home for yourself.

The alternative is another heart attack, more unhappiness, and poverty. Stop it. Look after yourself better.

I hate this thread. ;-)

Best wishes

- Trout

[The Legendary Shark]

Thanks, chaps. As I say, I don't think anyone is egging me on and neither do I believe that DDD thinks that either, that was entirely my own wording and, perhaps, ill-advised.

So long as people are prepared to read my posts then I'll continue to write them and, furthermore, I want you all to know that what I do I do under my own volition and the consequences are mine and mine alone. I am increasingly confident that the council and I can reach an amicable settlement over this issue, in no small part due to the perspectives, insights and support of the people who post on this thread.

I love you all.

[The Legendary Shark]

Trouty, don't worry too much. There are things going on and meetings I'm having (with officials) that I can't reveal at the moment but which show great promise.

[Trout]

Trouty, don't worry too much. There are things going on and meetings I'm having (with officials) that I can't reveal at the moment but which show great promise.

Good! Remember: tea cures everything. 

[The Legendary Shark]

Tea, tenacity and truth - the Transcendent Trinity of Triumph!

[Professor Bear]

I personally worry for the vegetarians of the board.  I mean, it can't be healthy to not get all your protein and vitamins - would it kill them, if it was hard to find something to eat for a meal or two that wasn't meat to maybe eat a steak just this once?  It's not the end of the world, like, and it's not like their abstinence and principles are going to overturn the global meat market, is it?
I worry about the veggies and though I respect their principles, at some stage it seems like they're just being difficult.



Snideness aside, adversity is something that is unavoidable in life regardless of your well-being or otherwise when adversity occurs, and how we deal with it can make us stronger as much as it can break us.
Despite concerns about Sharky's situation initially, at some point it became a question of whether you supported a harmless bampot (sorry, Sharky!) or someone who'd make an old lady unwell just to take a pop at one of her children.

[Trout]

The man's talking to bailiffs through the letterbox. He has a history of heart trouble. Sometimes common sense has to be applied. It's not about taking sides.

[Professor Bear]

Not everything is easy.  And I am still typing this from a comfy armchair.