The Political Thread

[GordonR]

Conspiracy theories are often attractive because they feed our deep seated hope that someone, somewhere, actually knows what's going on and is in control.

Brexit is little more than a series of fuck ups which started with a small group of people trying to entice the protest voters who grew in number when Labour stopped caring about the working class, and ended with a power grab from within the Tory party. 

Austerity will continue not because of a planned strategy, but simply because it's easy, and will continue to be easy unless the Labour party can appeal again to the disenfranchised.

Yes, as the Sky News political editor was astonished to find out, there is no longterm plan.  Just a bunch of chancers winging it. 

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_576fe22ee4b0d2571149cffd?edition=uk

[Professor Bear]

That makes it sound like some kind of long-term plan was in place.

No no, I've mentioned in the past how I find Bojo highly amusing as a sort of comic character and have studied him over the years as one might any interesting specimen, and it is my considered opinion based on his past form that this has been a miscalculation on his part and that contrary to how it might seem right now, he thinks he's going to ride this out and go back to how things were after a certain interval.

I posited the conspiracy theory because I thought it might be interesting in the same way that total war theory mentioned above was.  If I was going to posit a conspiracy theory I thought was plausible, I would probably point out how the three or four people who just created a global recession have been given a free pass in the media by Blairite MPs not just missing the biggest open goal in political history, but doing so by running to the other end of the field and setting fire to their own goalposts whilst the entire thing is being commentated on Twitter by Ron Atkinson.

[HdE]

So, Cameron has ruled out a second referendum. That's interesting, as I was under the impression Parliament still had to consider / debate the petition now that it's well above the threshold of signatories required for that to happen.

I'm not especially hopeful that the petition would actually achieve anything. But it's been disheartening to see so much chatter along lines of 'we've made the decision, let's live with it.'

Personally, I'd be more in favour of saying 'We've made the decision, had the lies exposed and seen the dire consequences that were promised actually come to fruition, some of us who voted to leave realise we did so for terrible reasons, and we'd just LOVE to do this whole thing again, but differently this time.'

[Tjm86]

Conspiracy theories are often attractive because they feed our deep seated hope that someone, somewhere, actually knows what's going on and is in control.

I always come back to what Pratchett said about conspiracy theories; some branch of government has managed to clandestinely organise a complex and secret plan when normally they can't even get the trains to run on time.  I think assuming that someone is in control at the moment is probably a stretch too far.  What is more likely is that the chancers at the top and in the city are taking advantage of this situation to make a few more bob.  Osborne is probably breathing a massive sigh of relief right now because the leave campaign has given him a fantastic new excuse for an imploding economy, increasing taxes, cutting spending and benefits and generally turning the screws up another five or six notches.

Prof Bear, I would have to agree wholeheartedly with your analogy.  I did wonder if the PLP were simply borrowing from the Northern Ireland football team playbook but as the day has developed it is fair to say that they have found some interesting new twists on the concept of shooting oneself in the foot.  I assume you meant Rowan Atkinson on commentating duties?  Now that would be worth paying money for.

How far past 11 are we now?

[JayzusB.Christ]

Safe in the knowledge that gullibility and ignorance have prevailed; Fuckface Farage knows he's safe to brazenly spout the following bullshit:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nigel-farage-ukip-britain-recession-brexit

[Steven Denton]

Panth, I had not envisaged having to fill a form in at the checkout or deciding for yourself exactly how every penny of your contribution must be spent but you raise a good point. It would be fairly simple to get around this.

The first idea that springs to mind is a simple three or four digit code system, worked out and utilised by HMRC. For example, code 001 might mean "government decides," 002 might mean Health Service takes priority, 003 for policing taking priority and so on. If you don't want to pay out of protest, a similar code could be used, maybe comprising 2 or 3 letters instead. AA, war in Syria, AB, MPs expenses and so on. Punch these numbers into the till as you pay.

If that's too much trouble, there will be a shed load of out of work tax inspectors who could be re-tasked to find out who's contributing what and why.

I don't agree that would be a catastrophic drop in revenue. Maybe at first, as the people exercise their rights just for the hell of it, but I think it would even out in the long run as the system comes to be better understood.

Financial planning is never accurate anyway. The government always seems to end up with a deficit. Borrowing would be less of a problem with money creation shifting from private to public hands - which needs to happen anyway whether taxation is made voluntary or not.

In fact, instead of borrowing, or in tandem with it, HMRC could issue monthly reports calling for increased contributions to cover urgent shortfalls in whichever areas require it. This would save money for the country as such contributions would be just that and not interest bearing loans.

Certain areas of contribution would be more popular than others, possibly even leading to surpluses which could be kept in reserve, used for above and beyond improvements or call for decreased contributions.

This voluntary system could be made to work very easily through media, education and social programming. If you can convince people that the only way to stop terrorism is by terrorising terrorist countries and the only way to get a decent job is by getting a degree, convincing them to contribute to the upkeep of their own society should be child's play.

I just want a Mars bar.

That's £80 and here is your HRMC purchase form filled with leading questions... will it be hospitals of will it be Prison outreach programs... it's going to be sick kids isn't it... it's always that or the puppies, or nothing at all.

Why is my Mars Bar £80?

As no one ticks the 'HMRC wages box' the burden of this complex voluntary system falls onto the retailers. I have two floors of accountants I have to pay.

Ah OK, well I suppose no matter who works this out it's remarkably large administrative task, but I'm just taking a break from filling in 90 pages of monthly returns for all of my other tax burdens such as council, car and income. I wouldn't normally use money because paying for or being paid anything has become a gigantic time drain.

This sure is a utopia

Yes sir, sure is.

[Tjm86]

Safe in the knowledge that gullibility and ignorance have prevailed; Fuckface Farage knows he's safe to brazenly spout the following bullshit:

Isn't there something he can be prosecuted for?  Got to be something under the trade descriptions act or advertising standards?

[Modern Panther]

This sure is a utopia

Yes sir, sure is.

But just imagine how free you'll be.

Isn't there something he can be prosecuted for?  Got to be something under the trade descriptions act or advertising standards?

Regrettably the high courts have ruled that it's currently legal for your politicians to lie to you (curiously, unless they are specifically telling lies about their opponents during a general election campaign.  Watch this space).

[Dandontdare]

Overhead a large scouse family arguing about EU whilst on holiday - most were Brexiters, but the one dissenting chap came up with a brilliant analogy:

"it's like having a night out in a club that's a bit crap - Your mates persuade you to look for somewhere else, but it's raining, you can't find anywhere better and the bouncers won't let you back in. You end up at 2am in a shitty kebab shop arguing about why you ever left the club in the first place"

[Tjm86]

You know, I think we are getting close to the point where we need to think about a separate referendum thread.  Perhaps entitled: "Off down the rabbit hole!"

Brexit leaders acting like a dog that has finally caught the cat it's been chasing and hasn't the first clue what to do, the Prime Minister throwing his teddies out of the plan because the vote didn't go the way he wanted and leaving the country leaderless, the Scottish Parliament saying that actually you can't leave the EU because we have to say yes but we won't, the Labour Party deciding that right now when the country actually needs some careful and considered leadership that this is the best time to burn down the house ....

Now Leanne Wood wants Welsh independence!  Seriously?  With all due respect the Welsh economy is in worse shape than most of England's.  There are parts that are no better off than Romania!

Has someone slipped me something and I'm on a totally bizarre trip?

[ZenArcade]

Nah, Tjm, this is the new reality. Sucks eh. Z

[Hawkmumbler]

Fucking hell nearly 700 pages of this shite?

[ZenArcade]

Don't blame us. Blame Corbyn, the EU,  Shark and the immigrants!  Z

[JayzusB.Christ]

Fucking hell nearly 700 pages of this shite?

Well, politics does tend to happen quite frequently.

[sheridan]

Fucking hell nearly 700 pages of this shite?

Only a matter of time until it's actually 700 pages :-)