The Political Thread

[JOE SOAP]

This beggars belief. For Mr Adams to Deny what transpired in his past leaves me agog. I wish I could share with you some of my knowledge but am duty bound to keep stum even after all these years.

We know enough of the involvement from ALL sides -including the governments of both Nation States- to know how history transpired and how 'the final solution' and the unnecessary blood that was spilled because of it, was instigated, to formulate our own pesonal arbitration. Not one of the players, and players is an apt term, are innocent here but their role in contemporary politics really is at an end and rightly so. There is plenty of denial to go round but the innocent still suffer.

[Jared Katooie]

I wish I could share with you some of my knowledge but am duty bound to keep stum even after all these years.

A wise precaution. Just remember that Stumm is banned in open areas!

[johnnystress]

http://davidcameronpretendingtobecommon.tumblr.com/

[The Legendary Shark]

"I don't see why they would need to bother with 'social-control' for a situation like this. Japan is an ally and I don't see the military wanting a war either. It's more likely, believable, that it's a certain insular attitude amongst certain dumb Americans."

Divide and rule. They got you thinking "dumb Americans" after all, when Americans are really no dumber than anyone else.

I could say that they got you thinking they're in-charge and and Americans are no dumber than anyone else too but that's still conjecture and giving them too much credit.


Plus you misread, notice I said 'certain' dumb Americans. There are plenty of dumb Americans as well as smart ones, some will always be dumb, the same as any other country, saing 'no dumber than anyone else' is a cop-out; incompetence/stupidity/racism are everywhere, no point making excuses for it or blaming 'the-powers-that-be' either. Stupid travels.

The comments are very much like any you'd find on any forum where there's stupid opinions flying around, it's not always about social control, we do enough of that ourselves.

I still don't see how 'divide and rule' applies to American 'attitudes' towards people suffering a disaster in Japan or why the military would target them at this specific time to create the attitude. They aren't at war, it's a different country, and what any 'World Bank disaster relief/debt slavery' that happens, has to do with the creation of those 'attitudes' doesn't really ring through either.

It sounds like too many conspiracy sound bytes, false flag, divide and rule, problem-reaction-solution are applied and bandied around these days to whatever new event or disaster comes to pass so other conspiracists can communicate with each other and understand them in their own terms rather than looking for any 'factual' truth; it's a rather limited perspective, lazy, and just not always the case.

Yes there are power-agendas constantly but trying to tie up any event or twitter into those agendas without logic is basically paranoid.

To answer your first point, I don't think that anyone is "in charge" per-se. I do, however, think that some people have an unusual and unwarranted amount of influence over our democratic systems and it appears that their influence is increasing. Now, one might say with reasonable confidence that this has always been the case but that only now, with the advent of the internet, has the extent of this shadowy influence begun to reveal its true extent to the masses. I will agree that some of what I think is conjecture - for example, I'm relatively certain that there is such a thing as the Bilderberg Group and that it consists of many of the most powerful politicians, bankers and various powermongers on Earth, but as they never publish any minutes of their meetings I can only speculate as to what they discuss, debate or decide behind those heavily guarded, closed doors. Are they discussing how to make ordinary people like you and I better off or figuring out how to consolodate their own wealth and positions? I honestly don't know, but I have my suspicions. When politicians from a democratic country such as ours attend Bilderberg meetings at the taxpayer's expense (1), should not we know what they've been up to in those meetings? I say yes, Bilderbergers say no.

"Plus you misread, notice I said 'certain' dumb Americans." Conceded. However, I will say that in my experience the vast majority of people are just that; people. Dumb, smart or indifferent, most people will be appalled and upset by the current catastrophe in Japan. And being dumb, smart or indifferent is no bar to being racist or having one's views coloured or influenced by "leaders," certain elements of the media or by projects such as the U.S. Air Force one I highlighted in the "Japan Earthquake" thread. Neither do I claim that every one of those sick "Pearl Harbour" comments was faked. I can, however, envisage certain factions within the U.S. military (for example) using such tactics to foster anti-American sentiment. After all, what good is an armed force (or, indeed, an obscenely profitable military/industrial complex) without people willing to be your enemy? Stupid doesn't just travel, stupid can be instilled.

The Japanese people would not be the target of these "Pearl Harbour" posts (if some or all were faked). The target is you and me. Anyone who could point to these vile posts and complain or, in extreme cases, threaten. It is a process that fosters anti-American sentiment thereby justifying increased expenditure on security or even more swingeing "patriotic" legislation. Also, if some or all of these "Pearl Harbour" posts were faked, this isn't the main thrust of any social control campaign but merely a tiny part of it. There is more to modern warfare than jets, tanks, troops and bombs. Hearts and minds, remember?

I am often amused by the way in which people fire out the word "conspiracy" as if it were a bullet. Somehow, that word has been placed in the same enclosure as "paedophile," "Holocaust denier" or "psycho." This attitude is rife across the media, where anyone who dares question the Official Truth is seen as a terrorist or undesirable and it puts me in mind of the famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892–1984) about the inactivity of German intellectuals following the Nazi rise to power and the purging of their chosen targets, group after group: "First they came for the communists, but I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists, but I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, but I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak out." First they came for the conspiracy theorists...

And, just in case you think governments never, ever conspire against their own people, conceal truths, tell outright lies or are themselves conspired against, have a look at some of these:

Hitler burns the Reichstag as an excuse to ban the Communist Party.
The Gulf of Tonkin incident, a Vietnamese/U.S. naval engagement which led directly to America entering the Vietnam war, never actually happened.
Operation Northwoods.
MK-ULTRA.
Operation Mockingbird.
Manhattan Project.
Watergate.
The Tuskegee Syphilis Study.
1990 Testimony of Nayirah.
Counter Intelligence Programs Against Activists in the 60s.
Main Core.
Rex 84.
The Iran-Contra Affair.
The BCCI Scandal.
CIA Drug Running in LA.
Operation Ajax.
Operation Snow White.
Operation Gladio.
The CIA Assassinates A Lot Of People (Church Committee).
The New World Order.
Kennedy Assassinations.
CIA Drug Smuggling in Arkansas.
Bohemian Grove.
Operation Paperclip.
The Federal Reserve Bank (U.S.A.)
Etc, etc, etc.

The above are all what you refer to as "'factual' truths." I don't see how this is a "limited perspective" and I do object to being called "lazy" for looking into such things. In my opinion, a lazy view of the world comes from plonking yourself in front of the BBC or the Telegraph and just digesting the pre-chewed crap they spew all over you and accepting the opinions of their "experts" without question. For example, when was the last time you heard about World Trade Centre Tower 7 on the BBC? I bet you thought only two towers collapsed on that day, didn't you? Now, that's lazy...

(1) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mandelsons-greek-farce-act-ii-1761474.html

[House of Usher]

The trouble is, there are a lot of conspiracy theorists who are not just prepared to believe anything, but are actually eager to believe anything.

Take, for example, 9/11 conspiracy theories. On the one hand, it is perfectly credible that no such organization as Al Qaida existed before 9/11, and that Al Qaida was invented by the CIA in order to provide a target for American military adventurism in Iraq and Afghanistan. No-one has ever put forward a convincing argument for why Al Qaida was necessary and why just a small group of individuals with limited financial resources could not come up with a plan to take flying lessons and co-ordinate their activities to board passenger planes, hi-jack them and fly them into targets on the ground.

So far, this is quite a straightforward proposition: America used a terrorist attack it would prefer not to have happened as an excuse to wage war on foreign countries it wanted to have a pop at anyway; not wanting to let a crisis go to waste - that's how cynical these bastards are.

Now, there are some conspiracy theorists who will go even further and say there was no terrorist attack on the world trade centre: it was a CIA plot; it wasn't a plane, it was a cruise missile; the cruise missile was disguised to look like a plane using a 3D hologram; the 3D hologram was created by the BBC (!)

Those who promote the theory that America attacked targets on its own soil in order to create a pretext for invading Iraq and Afghanistan are not the brave crusaders for truth. What they are is defeatists who who are saying, in effect, that the military/industrial complex has got things so tightly sewn up that they can pull off any outrage they can dream up and we are helpless to do anything about it. The conspiracy theorists who like to think they are under attack from their own government are living in fear as much as those who are convinced that we are all under constant threat of annihilation by Muslim fanatics.

In fact, one reason to doubt everything conspiracy theorists say is because, by their own logic, all these stories about faked evidence of terrorist attacks could just as easily be emanating from a shadowy intelligence agency trying to confuse and divide people as come from real people who have really seen through the deception. When the same people who claim that the 9/11 attacks were faked also claim that attitudes and beliefs are being framed in cyberspace by intelligence agencies, how can you choose which of their bullshit stories to believe and which to doubt?

[vzzbux]

For anyone to say that 911 was self inflicted have something loose in the head.
I can still remember clearly that day. I had an early finish from work, about 1300, and watched the events unfold at home until the wife got home from work at 1800.
The sheer scale of what happened and an iconic world landmark wiped out is just preposterous. Not even Bush jr would have been that stupid to give it a go ahead.
Just thinking about that day sends shivers down my spine.



V

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

That's what the Lizard People want you to think

[JOE SOAP]

I think you're missing my point. The people who make a living off 'conspiracy', and it is a business news demographic now, the Alex Jones' of this world, have definitely created a lexicon that many who are looking for an explanation of 'why' things happen that are not 'officially' acknowledged have adopted and use to explain almost any major event down to the royal wedding. This lexicon is continually used as shorthand by those who feel the need to rail against the Landlords of this world and to describe what's happening. This is a dangerous road as it shrinks the actual pursuit of achieving anything positive.

The Japanese people would not be the target of these "Pearl Harbour" posts (if some or all were faked). The target is you and me.

I'm fairly aware why propaganda is produced, Jacques Ullul practically wrote the book on it, but it still doesn't need explaining that there are plenty of Americans with that attitude so 'they' wouldn't really need to 'fake it' even if they did or not.


and the reason why 'conspiracy' is a bad term bandied about is not just because of mainstream pigeonholing of investigations/exposes but also the higher profile names that come across as arrogant, vain and rather silly when properly challenged when it comes to actual evidence and logic of their opinions. Many times have Alex Jones, Jim Corr et al just glossed over or shouted down any criticisms of their agendas when caught out, they are expersts on nothing except rants. None of these have the investigative intellect or graft of someone like Greg Palast who does put boots on the ground and discovers true corruption without the need for silly hyperbole but still gets marginalised. I wouldn't even touch Icke, often a guest of Jones.

And, just in case you think governments never, ever conspire against their own people, conceal truths, tell outright lies or are themselves conspired against, have a look at some of these:

Hitler burns the Reichstag as an excuse to ban the Communist Party.
The Gulf of Tonkin incident, a Vietnamese/U.S. naval engagement which led directly to America entering the Vietnam war, never actually happened.
Operation Northwoods.
MK-ULTRA.
Operation Mockingbird.
Manhattan Project.
Watergate.
The Tuskegee Syphilis Study.
1990 Testimony of Nayirah.
Counter Intelligence Programs Against Activists in the 60s.
Main Core.
Rex 84.
The Iran-Contra Affair.
The BCCI Scandal.
CIA Drug Running in LA.
Operation Ajax.
Operation Snow White.
Operation Gladio.
The CIA Assassinates A Lot Of People (Church Committee).
The New World Order.
Kennedy Assassinations.
CIA Drug Smuggling in Arkansas.
Bohemian Grove.
Operation Paperclip.
The Federal Reserve Bank (U.S.A.)
Etc, etc, etc.

The above are all what you refer to as "'factual' truths." I don't see how this is a "limited perspective" and I do object to being called "lazy" for looking into such things. In my opinion, a lazy view of the world comes from plonking yourself in front of the BBC or the Telegraph and just digesting the pre-chewed crap they spew all over you and accepting the opinions of their "experts" without question. For example, when was the last time you heard about World Trade Centre Tower 7 on the BBC? I bet you thought only two towers collapsed on that day, didn't you? Now, that's lazy...

I've never said such things could not or never happened, I'm aware of all of them on that list and more (I'm involved with a US doc on the Franklin Case in Omaha which ties in with the Savings and Loan Scandal, based on the available evidence and personal testimony; I can tell you some scary shit about that and the difficulties getting it finished).  

I'm criticising the laziness of people who fall back on the usual 'conspiracy' tropes and phrases/buzz-words that give them away about where they're getting their info from -in the way anyone who only watches SKY or reads the Daily Mail does with the news and repeat a certain vocabulary- easy answers created by the likes of Jones with his literal 'satanic govenrment' and Rense's Zionism etc. a lot of it without actual verification and some of the real stuff distorted to suit the news that fits the demographic. These people are really running 'conspiracy' rackets that are as one-sided as FOXCORP/Glen Beck/Rush Limbaugh. There is nothing 'fair' about any of them when they are analysed. It is these people who have spun and spun so much 'conjecture' as 'truth' that it is becoming the equal of government disinfo.

We can cite examples all day about things that have happened or we've read that endlessly get repeated -many of which we'd find hard to prove or know the 'why' of anyway-  but it never makes for any solutions, the trick is to provoke others to solve problems for themselves not to always convince them that everything they know is a lie.

[Dandontdare]

I began composing all kinds of stuff to post about conspiracy theorists, but HoU summed it up better than I ever could.

When it comes to Groupings of Bastards (Bilderburg, Bohemia Grove, Freemasons, Skull'n'Bones whatever) people mistake common purpose for conspiracy. These shitsuckers don't sit around plotting Bond villain stunts to deceive the public and distort the economy, it's just that the top million or so of rich and powerful fuckers tend to behave in similar ways, prop up each others' interests and thus appear to be a "conspiracy", when all they're probably doing at these meetings is snorting coke off teenagers tits and comparing yacht sizes.

[JOE SOAP]

Don't forget the blackmail.

[The Legendary Shark]

Well, 9/11. Where to begin?

Yes, there are a lot of nut cases out there and a lot of bullshit. (Indeed, there are conspiracy theories that some of the more outlandish conspiracy theories have been deliberately made to look mad and then let loose into the world to discredit the serious questions - kind of like in those legal dramas where the nasty lawyers hide the one scrap of evidence that will damn/exonerate the accused inside a mountain of trivia and bullshit.) I find that the best way is to believe none of it and just ask questions.

Here are some of the questions surrounding 9/11 that I think have yet to be answered adequately:

Why are at least four of the alleged 9/11 hi-jackers still alive? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/1559151.stm

Why is USAMA BIN LADEN not wanted for the 9/11 attacks? http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/wanted_terrorists

Why did the 47-storey WTC Building Seven collapse at near free-fall speed when it wasn't even hit by a 'plane? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A

How do two 90,000 ton steel and concrete skyscrapers (WTC 1&2) collapse perfectly symmetrically into their own footprints, from the top down, following the path of MOST resistance at near free-fall speeds with enough force to pulverize concrete and leave pools of molten steel in the rubble due to asymmetrical impact damage and relatively cool jet fuel (kerosene) fires which burned for just a few hours? (Build a tower of dominoes or cardboard boxes or something, set fire to one of the top corners and see if you can achieve a similar collapse pattern. Bet you can't do it.)

How did one of the hijacker's passports survive the plane crash, subsequent fires and building collapse only to be found in the vicinity of Vesey Street, near the World Trade Center? http://www.911hardfacts.com/report_08.htm

Why was there thermite in the wtc rubble? http://www.911hardfacts.com/report_08.htm#sc

Why was the steel from the towers exported for recycling within weeks of the attacks, before any thorough investigation could be undertaken? http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/groundzero/cleanup.html

And this only scratching the surface. There are still questions about how the US Air Force, which was well used to intercepting commercial aircraft wandering off their flight paths (nearly 100 times in the 12 months before 9/11, if memory serves) on the fatal day failed not once but FOUR times. Before we get to the lack of debris at Shanksville and the Pentagon impact which was powerful enough to vapourise a full passenger jet (including twenty ton engines and titanium alloy landing gear) and yet not hot enough to destroy the dna evidence required to identify the victims.

Questions, questions, questions. That's all I'm saying.

And, given that there are many questions, and that the upshot of 9/11 was war that has now lasted longer than WWII, slaughter on a grand scale and profits that read like cosmological distances - shouldn't there be a full and independent inquiry into what exactly happened on that day? To my mind, the answer to that question is a resounding YES.

[The Legendary Shark]

I'm not a big fan of Alex Jones, Michael Moore and their ilk. Maybe they're good for attracting the attention of people who haven't thought about any of this stuff before, but beyond that they are, as you say, just making money out of it.

My advice to anyone looking into this is to start with WTC 7 and just root through the more sober 9/11 Truth websites, of which there are a fair few. If you look through it all and find nothing amiss with the official version of events then I'm truly glad for you because your world will go on as normal and all will seem as it ever was. If, on the other hand, you find gaping holes in the official story then it'll probably scare you shitless for months. It scared the crap out of me when I first started looking, I don't mind admitting that. The revelation of WTC7 led me into a rabbit hole of terror and paranoia, but that eventually wore off.

Now I don't really give a shit if other people believe it or not. Other people's beliefs are other people's beliefs and I respect that - I wouldn't want to force anyone to see things "my way" because I'm fairly certain that I don't have all the facts or understand most of what's actually going on. I guess that now I simply suspect that there's all kinds of evil shit going on in this world, most of it perpetrated by the very people we look up to or aspire to emulate. It really sucks.

In the end, the only beliefs I can change are my own. The only world I can alter is my own. I choose to distrust the higher strata of power, the majority of the so-called "elites." But I'm also a bit of a romantic and choose also to believe that, as well as the secret evil agendas pushed by trillionaire devils from their various ivory towers there are also a few trillionaire angels on our side. Although, I do fear that the angels are an endangered species. All we really have to do to stop the conspirators is keep an eye on them, refuse to be anything less than free human beings and to call the bastards to account when they step too close to the line. There's more of us than there are of them, so they're the ones who should be scared, not us.

Now, where's me Blitzspear? I fancy tearing the place up a bit...

[House of Usher]

Michael Moore? I've never heard Michael Moore come up with anything implausible and far fetched. I thought his thesis was just that the super rich and powerful take every opportunity they get to do down the common working man. Isn't that the way it's always been?

[vzzbux]

Perhaps aliens orchestrated 911 so the world can pound itself into the ground. Soft and weakened, ripe for invasion.

I am sure that is a theory that is banded out there. If not lets start is and shit on all those lives lost on that fateful day.




V

[The Legendary Shark]

Perhaps aliens orchestrated 911 so the world can pound itself into the ground. Soft and weakened, ripe for invasion.

I am sure that is a theory that is banded out there. If not lets start is and shit on all those lives lost on that fateful day.

V

This is precisely the kind of uneducated and offensive waffle that hampers real investigations, trivializes the disaster and truly shits on all the lives lost both on and as a result of 9/11. Did you even look into any of the questions I posed or just write the above based only on what you've been told to believe by the media?

Now, if you want to believe in this "aliens did it" theory of yours, you should at least provide some evidence to support your claim (unless of course you were just joking...). Personally, I want a fully independent, international inquiry into what happened. What's so dumb about that? I want the first responders (firefighters, police, paramedics, rescue workers, members of the public who pitched in to help etc) treated properly now up to 70% of them are suffering from debilitating respiratory illnesses. (On Sept. 28, 2001, 17 days after the attacks, New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani said, "The air quality is safe and acceptable." 8,000 to 12,000 people are currently sick, many of them terminally so, for daring to help and only now is the US Government beginning to grudgingly accept that there's even a problem. Now that is shitting on all those lives lost.)

I used to get angry at foolish comments like the one Vzzbux makes above, but what's the point? There are none so blind as those who will not see. Get past your knee-jerk reactions and just look into the questions arising  before pronouncing with such blind certitude that the official version of events is set in stone and iron clad.