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Author Topic: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?  (Read 2899 times)

Steven Denton

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #30 on: 21 May, 2021, 01:07:02 PM »
Answering the original question of wether a creation should die with the creator is a hard no. You can write all the sequels to Hamlet you want and copyright post the authors death is already to long in my opinion.

Should IP be exploited by people other than original creators? It can be yes and maybe it will be good and maybe it will be bad. If it’s still in copyright that should depend on if the creators sold or licenses the IP

Did Pat Mills give up his IP for too little? Maybe, but the IP is probably with a lot less now then he made off the back end and continuous work, which was the old business model. The new one in the, you get to chose creator owned or work for higher, is arguably just as bad. 

Creator owned stuff that’s split between a number of creators and the publishers tends to have a good chance of going out of print and never being seen again though complex copyright issues. So that’s not ideal. Creator owned work were one creator owns everything and contracts co-creators as work for higher is possible worse than corporate owned. And I was reading about when Todd McFarlane didn’t get Nail Gaiman to sign a work for higher contract for a single issue of Spawn and has been fighting legal battles with him ever since, so unless your acting like a corporation you had best be a one man band or you are going to get into trouble.




Steven Denton

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #31 on: 21 May, 2021, 01:21:41 PM »
Often cited is creators not creating for things they will never own but you could literally charge people to work on Batman and never run out of professional quality work.

Historical injustices are not hugely relevant to the modern landscape outside of film adaptations because most of the money is also historical and comics just aren’t the cash cow they once were.

sheridan

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #32 on: 21 May, 2021, 01:38:29 PM »
Given that Gerry Finley-Day wrote the vast majority of Invasion!, does that mean Pat shouldn't have written Savage? Or that he owes GFD some cash? And should he have given up on Slaine when his co-creator (Angie Kincaid) was shelved off the project?


And wasn't Ro-Busters and ABC Warriors originally inspired by a poster that Kevin O'Neill painted before 2000AD even existed?

Link Prime

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #33 on: 21 May, 2021, 02:32:23 PM »
Pat Mills (72) is pretty much our Stan Lee.

Agree with him or not, guy wants to blow off a little bit of steam - so what?


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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #34 on: 21 May, 2021, 02:40:16 PM »

All of the above is why I'm really not interested in becoming a professional comics writer any more. It's much more satisfying, for me at  least, to remain strictly amateur. Writing for Zarjaz or Paragon is fulfilling enough for me - and complicated enough.

To illustrate, I'm still rather proud of Flesh: Extinction , which would never have seen the light of day if not for Dave and Rich. Those guys taught me, albeit probably unintentionally, that enthusiasm is far sweeter than profit.

Over the years I"he enjoyed a sporadic exchange of emails with Uncle Pat and, without wanting to betray private words, was disappointed in his dismissive attitude to my efforts based on his original ideas - which he did not read. I felt as if he was afraid of giving any opinion on work that was not his own - which is fair enough as I have broadly the same attitude - in case it somehow undermined his own position. As if I was angling to monetise his ideas myself, somehow - which was not the case. The concept of me putting my own spin on his ideas as a labour of love, in honour of the original and not an attempt to supplant or subvert it,  seemed to have little merit. It is difficult for me to read public statements he's given and not feel as if I'm just a hack recycling his ideas. Which, of course, I may very well be - but not intentionally. I never begin by thinking, "I wonder what I can steal,, monetise undermine, and ruin today?" 

So no -  I think I'll just keep on writing for the love of it, thanks.  Money and contracts and rights and all that rubbish would just ruin it for me. Let Pat have the money and the contracts and the rights -  I'll just take the love and the enjoyment.
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Jim_Campbell

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #35 on: 21 May, 2021, 02:44:06 PM »
I"he enjoyed a sporadic exchange of emails with Uncle Pat and, without wanting to betray private words, was disappointed in his dismissive attitude to my efforts based on his original ideas - which he did not read.

With the best will in the world, I don't think you'll find many writers, in any genre or medium, who'll read fanfic, no matter how well crafted or well-intentioned. It opens the writer up to accusations of 'stealing' lesser known/amateur writers' ideas, so the vast majority of writers have a blanket "Not gonna read that" policy.
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Funt Solo

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #36 on: 21 May, 2021, 03:52:05 PM »
Piggybacking on what Jim said - you'll find that's quite a common policy across disciplines. Unsolicited (computer) game ideas sent to established companies will be left unread specifically to avoid any legal questions over ownership.

Your choices, for games, are to either self-publish (thus retaining your ownership) or join a company and try to get your ideas to market that way (and therefore probably not retaining ownership, but getting paid a wage).

---

As to *why* we're examining what Pat said. Well, it's exactly because of who he is that we pick over his utterings.


And wasn't Ro-Busters and ABC Warriors originally inspired by a poster that Kevin O'Neill painted before 2000AD even existed?

Plus it's a Thunderbirds knock-off, of course. That's the rub for me - again and again - from someone who hungrily hacked the zeitgeist to create his baby (2000 AD), it galls to hear him rail against other writers by slapping the "hungry hacks" insult onto his contemporaries, as if he's morally above them. He's not. That there emperor - comic wonder or not - is in the nude.
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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #37 on: 21 May, 2021, 03:56:10 PM »

No, no - I get that. It wasn't"t any specific "will you read this?"  "No," conversation. It was more the underlying attitude of what is intrinsically worthwhile and what is intrinsically worthless.

Of course, Pat and I have never discussed copyrights and such because, boy, that would be a spat for the ages! :-)

All that being said, he never tried to stop or block me - which is definitely not nothing - but he certainly thought my efforts were pointless and inconsequential which,  also, I can not disagree with, but that doesn't automatically translate to exploitation or lack of respect on my part -  which is the impression I got.
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Steven Denton

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #38 on: 21 May, 2021, 08:06:35 PM »
Because a lot of my fan art and writing is essentially fan elaborate fan Mail to the creators of comics I have admired all my life part of me would like them to see it. A bigger part of me realises they would probably hate it and think I was some kind of dick head trying to rip them off. It’s a weird and complicated dynamic. Essentially it’s like dressing like someone who you admire but you are not friends with then hoping they notice and compliment your shoes that are knock off versions of their shoes.

Leigh S

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #39 on: 21 May, 2021, 08:34:25 PM »
My understanding is Pat was very anti-robots when 2000AD began, considering them a tired trope or some such?  Ro-Busters was  put to him by one of the old-timey editors as "why cant we do Thunderbirds with ex service men?"  Which Pat then decided to use robots instead?

Also Invasion was pitched to Pat by John Sanders IIRC, who had previously pitched it to Michael Moorcock (who had refused to do it on the grounds he wanted no part in Commie Bashing)

Given that Gerry Finley-Day wrote the vast majority of Invasion!, does that mean Pat shouldn't have written Savage? Or that he owes GFD some cash? And should he have given up on Slaine when his co-creator (Angie Kincaid) was shelved off the project?


And wasn't Ro-Busters and ABC Warriors originally inspired by a poster that Kevin O'Neill painted before 2000AD even existed?
« Last Edit: 21 May, 2021, 08:40:28 PM by Leigh S »

sheridan

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #40 on: 21 May, 2021, 11:00:32 PM »
Also Invasion was pitched to Pat by John Sanders IIRC, who had previously pitched it to Michael Moorcock (who had refused to do it on the grounds he wanted no part in Commie Bashing)

I can't imagine what they were expecting Moorcock to do with Invasion (the end of the eighties was 2000AD, Fighting Fantasy and Moorcock for me).

Art

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #41 on: 21 May, 2021, 11:05:11 PM »
Willem Sauvage, eternal defender of Albion, wielder of the Black Arquebus, rolling a cigarillo of restorative herbs whilst reading a red topped rune-sheet.

TordelBack

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #42 on: 22 May, 2021, 06:43:47 AM »
Willem Sauvage, eternal defender of Albion, wielder of the Black Arquebus, rolling a cigarillo of restorative herbs whilst reading a red topped rune-sheet.

If a 12-episode outline of this isn't on Tharg's desk by Monday, along with Weston's concept drawings, I'll be very disappointed. We'll square it with Pat later.

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #43 on: 22 May, 2021, 05:03:18 PM »
Original Creation Do Not Steal

Leigh S

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Re: PAT MILLS ASKS SHOULD CHARACTERS DIE WITH THEIR CREATORS?
« Reply #44 on: 22 May, 2021, 06:07:45 PM »
Jillem Cauvage, surely?