You may know Noel Clarke from such TV shows as Doctor Who and variously writing, acting, directing Kidulthood, Adulthood, Brotherhood, Bulletproof, 4,3,2,1, Fishermen's Friends.
Now he's interested in working with 2000AD...
Twitter (https://twitter.com/pauljholden/status/1267777926524739585)
Quote from: NoelClarkeI want my company
@UnstoppableLtd (https://twitter.com/UnstoppableLtd) to have rights, for a chance to make a show with a current or new 2000AD black character. We are established and real and can develop the show with you. how's that?
Good to see. 2000 AD needs more diversity. Relatively few black characters to choose from in 2000 AD's history, mind.
An Aquila tv show could work. Or a new character, with a comic story published simultaneously with the tv series. Noel Clarke knows what he's doing, so this has great potential.
Aquila and Daniel Harrison from Absalom spring to mind.
Or a Harlem Heroes standalone movie could tie-in nicely with the Dredd universe.
Quote from: JasonKingsleyJason Kingsley OBE
@RebellionJason
·
2h
I've followed you so we can DM.
Not only talented, but a terrific fella by all accounts. And regularly fighting the good fight on social media. How well Tharg would take to sharing rights is another matter, but I'd say it's a bridge to be crossed if you're inviting in creatives from more equitable spheres.
You say 'relatively few' black characters, IP and this is sadly true: most of those there are are minor characters in a white person's story (Mac, Malcolm, Giants 2 & 3, Francisco, Luiz Cannibal etc). But then off the top of my head there are Blackhawk/Aquila (same guy), Marshall Holt from Asylum, Eve from Crisis, the two lads in Tribal Memories, the all of whom would make for good stories (or different lengths and budgets!).
I almost dread to mention Nolan Blake, Tracer of Skips, but maybe that's something that would work on the screen in a way it hasn't worked for me on paper...
I would also suggest non-2000ad characters that Rebellion own, like El Mestizo.
He could be Dexter.... get a bit of a 'buddy cop' movie..... but with more ruthless murders......
But yeah, he's a talented lad, would love to see what he'd WANT to do.
Jeez, how did I forget Dex! Get Domhnall Gleeson for Finny and we're off! Kooky non-specific-time Euro hitman comedy-drama sounds like a goer to me.
Flippin' heck... Dexter's the most obvious choice and he didn't cross my mind either.
I'm glad other people could remember more black characters than I could! Discounting Dredd-world (due to ongoing TV devel stuff) I'd only managed Blackhawk, Aquila, John 'Giant' Clay (figure that's far enough removed from Judge Dredd: Mega-City One that it wouldn't cause licencing problems) and Outlaw.
Time to trot out my old and not 100% accurate 'history of BAME characters in 2000AD' blog series...
http://meanwhileon.blogspot.com/2016/10/bame-pow-comics-get-diverse-part-1.html (http://meanwhileon.blogspot.com/2016/10/bame-pow-comics-get-diverse-part-1.html)
Absalom does seem like the obvious choice for a modern-day British series that could be done on TV that features at least two black characters, not to mention the East End vibe that seems to get the money people interested, at least as far as UK film funding goes.
Why does the character have to have been black in the pages of the Prog? I, for one, think a black verison of Wolfie Smith could add that extra frisson of exclusion to this most conflicted anti-hero.
And if we're talking dream movie, my vote goes to Bad Company. Whoever said Kano was white?
Thanks Alex - I came back to add Lux Roth Chop, but no doubt he's already on your page (just going to mosey on over).
How could I forget Chief Judge Silver? The first new Chief Judge when I became a squaxx.
And you could just have a current character that hasn't historically been portrayed as black be portrayed by a black actor.
Right off the bat you've got Dredd - I might be getting my wires crossed, but wasn't he drawn as black by McMahon originally? Anyway - it's not as if his ethnicity is central to the character.
Rogue Trooper (I know, I know - he's blue) could be played by a black actor.
- What about Buttonman? That's an easy switch.
- The protagonist in Age of the Wolf could work.
- Al's Baby but reset in London.
- Armoured Gideon. [Can you tell I'm working my way through the A's?]
- Survival Geeks could be a Spaced for our (new) times, but much, much blacker.
- Could The Bogie Man work like that? It adds another layer of mad to his delusion.
- Dead Eyes leading into Indigo Prime.
- Finn.
- Harry Twenty
- Luke Kirby
- A Love Like Blood
- Lilly MacKenzie (wait...)
Quote from: Funt Solo on 02 June, 2020, 10:44:09 PM
And you could just have a current character that hasn't historically been portrayed as black be portrayed by a black actor.
Right off the bat you've got Dredd - I might be getting my wires crossed, but wasn't he drawn as black by McMahon originally? Anyway - it's not as if his ethnicity is central to the character.
I gather that Ezquerra's assumptions when creating the character was 'New York cop' = black guy (I'm completely paraphrasing here) but also that he'd read that in the future there would be a lot more people of mixed race, so Dredd could have partial black ancestry. Being hired to copy Ezquerra's style, McMahon picked up on this but was the only person to do so (maybe Belardinelli did as well).
Quote- Finn.
Don't forget that Finn was introduced as merely a supporting character in Eve's story.
Quote- Luke Kirby
I can't see Luke Kirby working in 1950s Britain as a black kid without the tone of the strip changing substantially - particularly when going to a sleepy country village.
Quote from: sheridan on 02 June, 2020, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 02 June, 2020, 10:44:09 PM
- Finn.
Don't forget that Finn was introduced as merely a supporting character in Eve's story.
Aieee! Now I'm a bit embarrassed that I didn't think outside of the 2000 AD box on that one. You're quite right. Third World War would actually be a great story. Boris's Britain, unfortunately, not that far from Thatcher's Britain.
Quote from: sheridan on 02 June, 2020, 10:51:29 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 02 June, 2020, 10:44:09 PM- Luke Kirby
I can't see Luke Kirby working in 1950s Britain as a black kid without the tone of the strip changing substantially - particularly when going to a sleepy country village.
I think it would need modernized.
why do we not have a very dark comedy tv show of sinister dexter yet? hell the premise alone works for a hit of the week scenario
Who would you cast? Samuel L Jackson and John Travolta, perhaps? :P
Also many thanks Sheridan for finding some more holes for me to fill in that blog!
Quote from: Funt Solo on 03 June, 2020, 01:23:49 AMI think it would need modernized.
Isn't the point of Kirby that it is a period piece? It's The Wonder Years meets Harry Potter. Then again, given the shit BAME kids go through, a black Luke in some middle of nowhere village could still work as a premise, without losing too much of what made the original great. Mind you, I suspect at that point McKenzie would kick off about rights and such again.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 03 June, 2020, 10:20:23 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 03 June, 2020, 01:23:49 AMI think it would need modernized.
Isn't the point of Kirby that it is a period piece? It's The Wonder Years meets Harry Potter. Then again, given the shit BAME kids go through, a black Luke in some middle of nowhere village could still work as a premise, without losing too much of what made the original great. Mind you, I suspect at that point McKenzie would kick off about rights and such again.
Always seemed dodgy to me that the editor of 2000AD apparently gave himself rights over characters he was writing for the comic when they weren't available to other creators - I wonder if he paid himself the same amount as those who weren't (allegedly) retaining right?
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 03 June, 2020, 10:20:23 AM
Then again, given the shit BAME kids go through, a black Luke in some middle of nowhere village could still work as a premise, without losing too much of what made the original great.
Worked just fine for Worzel Gummidge.
Actually think a black Luke Kirby would be a wonderful idea - marrying modern world to ancient english folklore and magic.
-pj
Yup - I agree. I could see that being a big hit.
Can't help but think we're missing an elephant in the room here...
(https://images.rebellion.co.uk/productVersion/a7/97/00.large.jpg)
Don't think he's got the physical presence to pull that off, and if we had to go down the CG road, you start ramping up costs and then the budget runs off and hides in a corner.
Did he say he wanted to star as the title character though? If he wanted to be in it there are plenty of other roles.
Quote from: norton canes on 03 June, 2020, 03:33:57 PM
Did he say he wanted to star as the title character though? If he wanted to be in it there are plenty of other roles.
Fair point, think he's generally happy to take a lesser role if he's also directing, so guess it could work.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 03 June, 2020, 10:20:23 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 03 June, 2020, 01:23:49 AMI think it would need modernized.
Isn't the point of Kirby that it is a period piece? It's The Wonder Years meets Harry Potter. Then again, given the shit BAME kids go through, a black Luke in some middle of nowhere village could still work as a premise, without losing too much of what made the original great. Mind you, I suspect at that point McKenzie would kick off about rights and such again.
Totally agree - the first one had a serious tinge of - well, I believe there's a Portuguese word for a type of nostalgia for something you've never experienced personally, so that. Can't see any reason why Luke shouldn't be black, but I can see every reason why he shouldn't be in his mid-40s.
I recently binge-watched Auf Wiedersehn Pet; Clarkey does a great job as the late Wayne's young lad. Every bit the smug lady's man his TV dad was, with the advantage of not looking exactly like Ronnie Wood.
The game Cluedo, by the way, should have remained a period piece too. Playing as a kid, i could suspend my disbelief and imagine I was walking round a dusty mansion in the 1920s. Nowadays you can only buy a modern version where the house has a jacuzzi or something and all the characters are young secret agent types. Break your bleedin' heart.
Quote from: sheridan on 02 June, 2020, 01:32:57 PM
You may know Noel Clarke from such TV shows as Doctor Who and variously writing, acting, directing Kidulthood, Adulthood, Brotherhood, Bulletproof, 4,3,2,1, Fishermen's Friends.
Now he's interested in working with 2000AD...
Twitter (https://twitter.com/pauljholden/status/1267777926524739585)
Quote from: NoelClarkeI want my company
@UnstoppableLtd (https://twitter.com/UnstoppableLtd) to have rights, for a chance to make a show with a current or new 2000AD black character. We are established and real and can develop the show with you. how's that?
Well that ain't gonna happen now.
Yeah. I was thinking about this when the news broke. This did not age well.
No. It
really didn't age well, did it?
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 June, 2020, 03:35:17 PM
Not only talented, but a terrific fella by all accounts. And regularly fighting the good fight on social media.
I'd forgotten about this thread. Fooky Nell.
I think Tordelback can be forgiven here (not saying anyone's attacking him or anything). I thought Rolf Harris was an absolute gentleman right up until the mask came off.
Mm. It's interesting how Clarke's story never came out widely at the time. There was lots of shit at the time about Barrowman, but never Clarke. All we heard was that Who was "toxic" and Eccleston walked because of that atmosphere.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 09 May, 2021, 03:52:30 PM
Mm. It's interesting how Clarke's story never came out widely at the time. There was lots of shit at the time about Barrowman, but never Clarke. All we heard was that Who was "toxic" and Eccleston walked because of that atmosphere.
I have a vague memory of hearing a while back that he was Mr Grabby with female fans at cons.
But, you know what? You depressingly hear that about a surprising number of 'terrific fella' fan favourites.
Quote from: GordonR on 09 May, 2021, 12:03:45 PM
No. It really didn't age well, did it?
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 June, 2020, 03:35:17 PM
Not only talented, but a terrific fella by all accounts. And regularly fighting the good fight on social media.
Eeee-oook....
:sick:
Quote from: TordelBack on 10 May, 2021, 09:22:23 AM
Quote from: GordonR on 09 May, 2021, 12:03:45 PM
No. It really didn't age well, did it?
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 June, 2020, 03:35:17 PM
Not only talented, but a terrific fella by all accounts. And regularly fighting the good fight on social media.
Eeee-oook....
:sick:
Haha!
I remember being a con awhile back when he and couple women from Doctor Who were being asked about backstage antics he went on for about 5-10 minutes on how John Barrowman would get his cock out and wave it about at the other cast and crew,holding the mic at his chrutch as it was his penis waving it in the women's faces and putting it on their heads and shoulders making them feel uncoftable as they tried to say that John Barrowman's antics were ment as fun and harmless but Noel Clark kept going on and on about this. Every time the host went to ask about other people's antics he kept bring Barrowman's penis up to delect the question away from him
That'll be this event... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58FO_SMW7II&t=1s
(BE warned: it is EXCRUCIATING... )
Its a bit odd (and I concede this is also my feeling) that Clarke's description is so deeply uncomfortable to watch but the heart of it is Barrowman's antics that are really bang out of order.
unfortuantly another event
crikey
Quote from: pauljholden on 10 May, 2021, 09:51:13 PM
That'll be this event... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58FO_SMW7II&t=1s
(BE warned: it is EXCRUCIATING... )
:o OMG - well, I can't say I wasn't warned.
Jesus Christ.
FFS.
If you wanted handy advance warning of dogshit, you could do worse than take careful note of the people I vocally admire(d). Orson Card, Whedon, Rolf Harris, Spacey, Rowling, Dawkins, Ellis... Heartfelt paeons to their glory litter my indelible internet record.
Rest assured this level of judgement extends into my personal life, and of course, I love you all.
Years back, I interviewed Graham Linehan. I had a lot of fun. He seemed like a solid guy. He wrote the afterword for a Rebellion book (IIRC, Book of Scars) as well, so someone at 2000 AD must have been a fan too. Were the signs there? I mean, possibly. Some of his writing in hindsight in IT Crowd now doesn't look too good, to say the least. But, mostly, it's impossible to see behind the public shields people put up. Add to that the 'benefit of the doubt' being too broadly and liberally applied for those with power and influence and you end up with the shitshow that's now exploding everywhere.
The question is more what you do when you know. Do you double down on the person? Do you make peace with the property? My wife's a massive HP fan (even if she found some aspects of the... very white/English/bit racist outlook troubling), and is deeply upset by Rowling. Her take: she won't let this sour her love for those books nor her extremely happy memories on seeing the stage show, but she won't fund any further activities Rowling partakes in. That's more or less where I sit right now. (I'm not going to hurl our Firefly DVD into the skip, but fuck Whedon. And had I realised Scott Allie was the guy behind the final BRPD arc before it arrived in my house, I would have skipped over that too, despite really wanting to read the conclusion to that series. Although it was, unfortunately, shite. Clarke? Same thing goes, although I suspect he's going to find getting more work pretty tricky anyway after all this.)
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 11 May, 2021, 10:09:15 AM
Graham Linehan.
God yeah, him too. Comedy idol, the first guy I followed on Twitter. Like a moth, me.
Robert Webb, to a lesser extent. I got his book as a gift. And: oh my. It's stuffed with humblebrag and not great depictions of women. Very much the "poor younger me, because girls didn't really fall for me much, on the basis I wasn't very manly, but let me tell you about the next several girls I fucked". Just awful. And then there's all his weirdness about trans and the recent fuck-up on US radio (which is toe-curlingly awful to listen to).
In hindsight, it seems that entertainment industry is full of these people. I remember the outrage when it was announced that James Gunn is hired to do Suicide Squad 2. I was like, "James Gunn, really?". Same with Warren Ellis. In fact, Warren's case came as a total surprise to me. Considering his feminist activities on social networks. Oh well, live and learn. That's why I say - don't look for the idols for yourself.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 11 May, 2021, 10:09:15 AM
Years back, I interviewed Graham Linehan. I had a lot of fun. He seemed like a solid guy. He wrote the afterword for a Rebellion book (IIRC, Book of Scars) as well, so someone at 2000 AD must have been a fan too. Were the signs there? I mean, possibly. Some of his writing in hindsight in IT Crowd now doesn't look too good, to say the least. But, mostly, it's impossible to see behind the public shields people put up. Add to that the 'benefit of the doubt' being too broadly and liberally applied for those with power and influence and you end up with the shitshow that's now exploding everywhere.
The question is more what you do when you know. Do you double down on the person? Do you make peace with the property? My wife's a massive HP fan (even if she found some aspects of the... very white/English/bit racist outlook troubling), and is deeply upset by Rowling. Her take: she won't let this sour her love for those books nor her extremely happy memories on seeing the stage show, but she won't fund any further activities Rowling partakes in. That's more or less where I sit right now. (I'm not going to hurl our Firefly DVD into the skip, but fuck Whedon. And had I realised Scott Allie was the guy behind the final BRPD arc before it arrived in my house, I would have skipped over that too, despite really wanting to read the conclusion to that series. Although it was, unfortunately, shite. Clarke? Same thing goes, although I suspect he's going to find getting more work pretty tricky anyway after all this.)
Who?
HP: Harry Potter. As in, the most famous children's book series in living memory, written by JK Rowling? There were some movies and videogames, I believe.
I thought you were referring to Howard Phillip Lovecraft.
To me, the product is fantasy, the producer is reality. One takes from the fantasy world the aspects one likes and rejects the rest. The same with reality. The dreams of madmen and fiends are as valid as the dreams of paragons and angels.
If one enjoys the dream but despises the dreamer, well, that's what Pirate Bay is for...
Quote from: Mister Pops on 11 May, 2021, 01:04:14 PM
I thought you were referring to Howard Phillip Lovecraft.
Yeah... I suspected it was him, but wasn't sure. Indigo's description was pretty much HPL
Really? When the next bit said:
"and is deeply upset by Rowling. Her take: she won't let this sour her love for those books nor her extremely happy memories on seeing the stage show, but she won't fund any further activities Rowling partakes in."
Is there some renowned Lovecraft stage show I haven't heard about? That would be quite something, admittedly.
No, but I thought of Howie when you mentioned
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 11 May, 2021, 10:09:15 AM
(even if she found some aspects of the... very white/English/bit racist outlook troubling),
The Cats of Cthulhu, obvs. I'll get me slimy, timeless, indescribable horror of a coat...
Joseph and the Amazing Dunwich Horror.
At the Mousetrap of Madness.
The Reanimator of the Opera.
My Fair Dagon
The R'lyeh Horror Show
Herbert West, Superstar.
Would the music be by Erich Zann?
For some actual HPL musical action I would direct you to this:
https://store.hplhs.org/collections/filk/products/a-shoggoth-on-the-roof-cast-album-cd
The White English Ship.
Obviously.
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 11 May, 2021, 04:47:01 PM
Would the music be by Erich Zann?
For some actual HPL musical action I would direct you to this:
https://store.hplhs.org/collections/filk/products/a-shoggoth-on-the-roof-cast-album-cd
Don't think I've heard that one - I'm a great fan of Carol of the Old Ones - the HP Lovecraft Historical Society rendition of Shchedryk (perhaps better known as Carol of the Bells).
I'm totally lost, now.
.
What's that noise...?
Fhtagn of the Opera
The Man Who Would Be King (In Yellow)
Hastur and Commander
In many ways, Andrew Lloyd-Weber is a frightful messenger from unformed realms of infinity beyond all Nature as we know it; from realms whose mere existence stuns the brain and numbs us with the black extra-cosmic gulfs it throws open before our frenzied eyes.
I mean, have you seen Cats
Quote from: Mister Pops on 11 May, 2021, 10:19:43 PM.
I mean, have you seen Cats
Is it based on The Cats of Ulthar?
Fun fact. Cats is based on poems by T.S. Eliot. A man known for racism and misogyny.
Sorry, I don't have a funny HP Lovecraft musical name, but I did giggle at the suggestions :)
The King in Yellow and I
Late to the party but -
Joseph and his Amazing Technicolour Out of Space
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 11 May, 2021, 10:09:15 AM
My wife's a massive HP fan (even if she found some aspects of the... very white/English/bit racist outlook troubling), and is deeply upset by Rowling. Her take: she won't let this sour her love for those books nor her extremely happy memories on seeing the stage show, but she won't fund any further activities Rowling partakes in.
I hate to be
that guy but this is a thread about a well-known actor who's recently been exposed as a serial sex abuser. I'm not sure it's appropriate to turn it into a thread attacking a well-known writer who's been smeared as a bigot for advocating better protection for women from abuse and the potential for abuse.
Rowling herself is a sex abuse survivor and is the subject of an online campaign of sexual harassment. It's got to the point where parents are having to bar their children - her fans and target audience - from her Twitter feed because any thread she starts gets turned into a sewer of obscene messages and images from her trolls.
To the best of my knowledge Rowling has never made any disparaging comment about trans people either individually or collectively, and the characterisation of her as a transphobe is a fraudulent distortion of her sex-based rights advocacy. But even if it were accurate then I don't see why this makes her as bad as man who has used his power and influence to assault women repeatedly over the course of decades, or why a discussion of his
actual crimes should need to be sidetracked into a lengthy discussion of her alleged thoughts.
Rowling's involvement in the thread arises from the idea of being a vocal fan of a public figure/creator who turns out to be, at very best, a disappointment to you. I agree JKR is in no way Rolf Harris, nor Noel Clarke, but many people have found her public position (no mind reading required) on gender issues and self-identification in particular to be the antithesis of their own. Not everyone, I freely grant you.
That leaves one feeling a fool, and while I agree there's a enormous gulf between opinion on a difficult subject and committing criminal acts, the former have real-world consequences for real people too. Disclosure: I'm a Potter fan, and I find her various remarks disappointing, because they run counter to my position on Trans rights.
But I agree, JKR is a distraction from the direction the thread has taken (although that itself is the opposite of how it started) and one I may be responsible for.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 09 May, 2021, 03:52:30 PM
Mm. It's interesting how Clarke's story never came out widely at the time. There was lots of shit at the time about Barrowman, but never Clarke. All we heard was that Who was "toxic" and Eccleston walked because of that atmosphere.
No idea where I heard it but there has certainly been word out there of Clarke being an unpleasant person to work with for over a decade, at least. Obviously nothing to the extent of what's come out, but I remember being disappointed to hear he was a prick as I liked his performance in Auf Wiedersehn, Pet.
Quote from: The Corinthian on 17 May, 2021, 07:25:28 AM
To the best of my knowledge Rowling has never made any disparaging comment about trans people either individually or collectively, and the characterisation of her as a transphobe is a fraudulent distortion of her sex-based rights advocacy.
Whilst I don't disagree with your broader point, I want to note that this is a
very charitable characterisation of Rowling's position. She has explicitly said, for example, that women are "people who menstruate" — and that's not even true of all people born biologically female, never mind being a clear swipe at trans women. She tweeted a link to an online store full of merchandise displaying openly transphobic slogans. That's two examples I can recall immediately — I don't want to get down into the weeds of this, but I think "fraudulent" is far too strong a descriptor for accusations of transphobia. She's said plenty of things that might give a person that impression, and doubled down on them when called out on it.
Part of my confusion re. the Rowling / Transphobia debate was in not understanding what the core argument is. The hinge question is whether or not you're willing to accept that trans women are women, or that trans men are men. If you're not, then you're in agreement with Rowling. That position is considered (by people on the other side of the debate) as transphobic.
So, barring trans women from a women's prison, or from a women's toilet, or from a women's sports team, or from a women's shelter, means that you need to somehow identify people's birth gender, and then legislate to separate them from their gender identification. Effectively, from some kind of legal standpoint, it means that you are creating at least four gender classifications, and separate rules for each of the four. (Or, you're sticking with two and forcing trans folk to stick to their birth gender in lots of situations in which that puts them in danger.) Never mind legislatively, when it comes to any sort of potential enforcement, things start to get super-creepy. Gender police? (Aside: when I emigrated to the US, my physical sex was checked, by a doctor, as part of the process. Also, that my limbs were real.)
This is Rowling's effective stance. She says she likes "them", she feels for "them", she worries for "them" - but "them" ain't women in her eyes. And that, right there, is the crux of the debate.
There's an online commentator that did a whole piece about this that explained it in a much better way than I can. Prof. Bear posted it up a while ago ... let me see if I can find it ... ah, here: J.K. Rowling | ContraPoints (https://youtu.be/7gDKbT_l2us).
Quote from: Funt Solo on 17 May, 2021, 03:44:21 PM
(Aside: when I emigrated to the US, my physical sex was checked, by a doctor, as part of the process. Also, that my limbs were real.)
That seems bizarre. I wonder how extensive the medical literature is on verifying limbs. I assume they do this because American health care will literally cost you an arm and a leg.
I am sure some read this JKR post. (https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/j-k-rowling-writes-about-her-reasons-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/) Take it as you want.
Edited for rights/forum usability—IP
I managed about a third of that, and already I'd read enough.
I get that she has no hate for anyone, but she really needs to stop equating trans people with perverts and potential sex crimes.
The idea that people (born with vaginas) would be scared of people (born with penises) being able to use the same changing room area as them only shows that current changing rooms aren't private enough!
So yeah, I get her concern. She just points it at the wrong people.
The Corinthian was asking that we not conflate by association someone's views, however completely we might disagree with them, with the disgusting actions of the specific subject of this thread. Not to minimise the significance of the former, I think we should respect that request and, if people want to continue, take this (important) discussion of trans issues and/or JKR elsewhere.
Although note I AM NOT A MOD, so you've no reason to pay me any heed, but I do feel responsible for leading us down this path.
Quote from: TordelBack on 11 May, 2021, 09:54:37 AM
FFS.
If you wanted handy advance warning of dogshit, you could do worse than take careful note of the people I vocally admire(d). Orson Card, Whedon, Rolf Harris, Spacey, Rowling, Dawkins, Ellis... Heartfelt paeons to their glory litter my indelible internet record.
Rest assured this level of judgement extends into my personal life, and of course, I love you all.
Trying to be helpful - it looks like this is where the thread splits off into a wider discussion about famous folk who have disappointed in some way. Maybe a mod might agree to split the thread here?
Quote from: Mister Pops on 17 May, 2021, 04:02:00 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 17 May, 2021, 03:44:21 PM
(Aside: when I emigrated to the US, my physical sex was checked, by a doctor, as part of the process. Also, that my limbs were real.)
That seems bizarre. I wonder how extensive the medical literature is on verifying limbs. I assume they do this because American health care will literally cost you an arm and a leg.
The check (for which I assume the doctor is very well paid) consisted of observing and then poking my legs and arms, then - I kid ye not - counting my junk parts. No poking there. Ah well. Imagine - all that training and education so you can go
poke-poke-poke-poke-1-2-3.
All threads drift. Unless someone is up in arms about this one talking about wider issues, I'm not sure we really need to carve it in half.
I think we already have the thread - Separate art from the artist where JKR views had been the starting point for the debate. I kinda feel The Corinthian was right about threads going astray.
Bottom line: you have your own views, you can't please anyone, nor you should. Just be a good person, create some inspiring piece of work and pray people will love it. Your personal crimes are your own personal shame.
So back to Noel Clarke - the police have dropped any investigation into those claims (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-60900404).