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Author Topic: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!  (Read 1895 times)

wedgeski

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #15 on: 28 October, 2021, 10:01:05 AM »
The cover as a  3D model:


That's very cool. Did you do that?

broodblik

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #16 on: 28 October, 2021, 10:07:47 AM »
No way I do not have that talent, it was done by Alex Ronald. Here is the article on how he did the cover: https://2000ad.com/news/2000-ad-covers-uncovered-alex-ronald-tests-his-hag-reflex-for-2000-ad-prog-2255/
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norton canes

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #17 on: 28 October, 2021, 10:58:57 AM »
I thought the most telling line in Nic's letter was "my kids prefer the classic violent stuff". I don't think even the most ardent proponent of the Regened strips would argue that they aren't extremely sanitized in terms of removing violent content, or in fact content of any controversial or potentially contentious nature. It's all, sadly, far removed from the era when Action and 2000 AD would actively provoke outrage. And it's creating a huge schism with the regular content, which over the past couple of weeks has included face-fryings, cock jokes and all manner of depravity in The Diaboliks.

Still, if you can scare kids with Words and Pictures, perhaps there are a generation of children who'll grow up with traumatic memories of Finder and Keeper (I know a few adults will...)

Anyway...

Love me an Alex Ronald cover, and that 3D wireframe looks wonderfully Harryhausen. In fact I'm looking at the final part of 'The Hard Way' now imagining Keeper Hag moving like a stop-motion puppet. It's a bit of a hectic conclusion (does Dredd know he's going to be swept straight into the airlock?) but I guess that's in keeping with the breakneck pace of what's been a very enjoyable story.

A portentous wrap for another excellent run for The Diaboliks. I feel it's been a rather underrated strip lately; perhaps it's languishing slightly in the shadows of Caballistics, Inc. and Absalom but it always gets on with the job of being discreetly brilliant. The Pandora Perfect strip has been much better than I anticipated - a thought just struck me that maybe it could run as a one-pager, like the old Captain Klep and Dash Decent stories? Scarlet Traces has lost me plot-wise (I say 'lost', I haven't read the chapters so never really found the plot in the first place) but I love its weird aesthetic.

And... The Out. The Out is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you're going to get - but sometimes you get the same chocolate from the bottom layer as you got a couple of weeks ago from the top one.


norton canes

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #18 on: 28 October, 2021, 11:00:39 AM »
Scarlet Traces has lost me plot-wise (I say 'lost', I haven't read the chapters so never really found the plot in the first place) but I love its weird aesthetic

the *early* chapters

Colin YNWA

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #19 on: 28 October, 2021, 11:17:12 AM »
But let's examine this idea that the old violence and anarchy has been sanitised. The three strips that have moved over to the regular Prog have been:

Full Tilt Boogie - plenty of all sorts in there. Good high octane thrillage, entirely comparible to older thrills, but agruably better written than many.

Department K - Kirby inspired action adventure, with as much violence and daring do as in any comparible strip back in the day

Pandora Perfect - yep this one isn't awash and is a much more slapstick strip, more a parallel to an old Robo-hunter story in tone I'd suggest and glorifies a thief and ne're do well I'd suggest.

The Regened issues themselves - 4 a year lest we forget - are I think slightly violent overall BUT does that reduce the quality of the storytelling, I don't think so. Does it shy away from violence, again strips like Mayflies strongly suggest otherwise, They just don't rely on it as a default (neither did strips from earlier days as well - there was more no doubt though). They simply open up other avenues of storytelling. Avenues that kids today are exposed to and seem to enjoy - I'll not pretend to have done the market research to know this for sure.

None of that invalidates Jacqusie (or Norton Canes that's landed as I type so not properly read that - but will say 'creating a hugh schism with the regular content' is a good thing for me. The Prog has always been about variety and being exposed to stories you otherwise might not) point. If its not working for them, well there's no point trying to disagree with that and the cliche, ya pays ya money ya makes ya choice is in full affect. Its just to say there are different views, different ways of seeing this and the Prog has always evolved and if y evolving it opens itself to new, different readers then for me that's a plus.

As long as the craft, good storytelling and energetic art is still there I suspect I will be too.

norton canes

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #20 on: 28 October, 2021, 11:24:08 AM »
'creating a hugh schism with the regular content' is a good thing for me

Looking forward to the first run of 'Hugh Schism' : )

Link Prime

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #21 on: 28 October, 2021, 11:33:04 AM »
they were aimed at a kids target audience

I’d say I on average I’ve cared about three of the five strips. There have been plenty of clunkers. But only during 2000 AD’s nadir period did I consider binning the Prog (John Smith being the reason I didn’t).

A key distinction here - even the worst 2000AD strips from the so called "dark days" (not looking too dark right now) were at least aimed at the core audience.

It's a graph we will never see, but I would be interested to review a bar chart some years down the line comparing the sum total of new readers that Regened gained Vs older readers that just thought "fuck this".

Colin YNWA

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #22 on: 28 October, 2021, 11:37:01 AM »
It's a graph we will never see, but I would be interested to review a bar chart some years down the line comparing the sum total of new readers that Regened gained Vs older readers that just thought "fuck this".

The fact that they are still pushing Regened so hard suggests that that gains outweigh losses? Unless they are looking at a long game and prepared to risk a short term loss for a potential long term gain I think Regenes most be working on some level.

As you say we'll never see the figures but the one piece of evidence we have, they are still coming and I think will continue to do so next year (why do I think we know that???) suggests something about them is still working.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #23 on: 28 October, 2021, 11:48:36 AM »
I thought the most telling line in Nic's letter was "my kids prefer the classic violent stuff". I don't think even the most ardent proponent of the Regened strips would argue that they aren't extremely sanitized in terms of removing violent content, or in fact content of any controversial or potentially contentious nature.
Markets change. But also, I wonder how much of the “my kids prefer” is down to parental influence. I know that’s the case with my daughter and some of the things she loves — although less so with reading, since she’s a voracious reader and very much finding her own path.

On content being sanitised, I’m not so sure, much like Colin outlined in his replies. Modern comics are certainly less violent and less likely to go for the visual shock. But they’re also often smarter. They’re certainly more representative and inclusive. I grew up in an age of comics written by when men for white kids — or white men for white girls, but very much from the male gaze. I look back at Robo-Hunter now and it’s cringeworthy. Some of the old ‘girls comics’ reprints are dodgy in terms of representation — very stereotypical and sexist at times. Not that this has been eradicated from modern comics, but it’s less apparent, and I’m happy that’s the case for my daughter.

Quote
And it's creating a huge schism with the regular content, which over the past couple of weeks has included face-fryings, cock jokes and all manner of depravity in The Diaboliks.
Again, I keep coming back to this being an anthology comic. 2000 AD has had a huge variety of strips throughout its history. Horrifying strips frequently sit alongside funny ones; violent strips sit alongside thinky ones. I don’t see Pandora Perfect as being much different from a whole bunch of humour strips the comic has run in the past, bar — as I’ve said before — me actually wanting to read it.
« Last Edit: 28 October, 2021, 11:50:59 AM by IndigoPrime »

dweezil2

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #24 on: 28 October, 2021, 12:01:33 PM »
Or, to put it another way, I’d much sooner have another series of Pandora than more Skip Tracer or, I dunno, Greysuit.
And yet I loved Greysuit!
You see the Prog really is the epitome of something for everyone!!! :)
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Link Prime

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #25 on: 28 October, 2021, 12:03:10 PM »
Unless they are looking at a long game and prepared to risk a short term loss for a potential long term gain I think Regenes most be working on some level.

As you say we'll never see the figures but the one piece of evidence we have, they are still coming and I think will continue to do so next year (why do I think we know that???) suggests something about them is still working.

My guess is the obvious one; it's a cost effective means of producing kid friendly material that can be reprinted for the Regened collections (which can be more accurately marketed thereafter).

The only tax that our Green Overlord is willing to pay is some core reader dissatisfaction (to what degree outside the Forum I guess we will never know) and perhaps some credibility as a respected publication of sophisticated comic strips.

IndigoPrime

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #26 on: 28 October, 2021, 12:07:31 PM »
I don’t see why making more comics people like would impact on 2000 AD’s “credibility”.

Link Prime

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #27 on: 28 October, 2021, 12:08:21 PM »
Word on the street is 2000AD be actin like a beeyotch.

broodblik

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #28 on: 28 October, 2021, 12:50:51 PM »
There is only 4 regen episodes a year basically its represents 8% of the published progs. So if you do not like them just skip them it is not like it is a 50/50 split.
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord’s way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death’s in case we didn’t take the hint.

scrotnig

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Re: Prog 2255 - Hag Reflex!
« Reply #29 on: 28 October, 2021, 07:29:10 PM »
I’m 53 and I think Pandora Perfect is awesome.

There’s a place in the main prog for stories like that.
Not everything has to be all dark and serious.