The Political Thread

[Steve Green]

I've seen a few background pieces to the debate, which were interesting.

I'm not sure how useful the interference from Con/Lab/Lib lot or the EU presidency, or Spain is, or if it's going to be totally counter-productive.

Whether 'project fear' is going to have the reverse effect remains to be seen.

I don't quite get the rationale that Scotland would have to reapply to the EU, but apparently the RestoftheUK wouldn't.

Cameron's rather cowardly potshots from the sidelines rather than going up to have a debate grates a bit.

I don't envy those having to make a decision...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuyVlWbcfgQ

[Old Tankie]

Hi Jim, I believe boundaries should be drawn at a national level for things like foreign policy, immigration, taxation, amongst others, but I also believe in localism i.e. a district council area to decide certain things on a local basis, like health, transport, care for the elderly, and some benefits.  I certainly don't believe that European integration is the answer.  How could a politician in Rome, for example, (even if I could vote for him) know what's best for the East Midlands of England or England as a whole.

Not saying I'm right, it's just my opinion.

[Frank]

Dave Bowie's ill-advised contribution to the Scottish independence debate seems destined to be the talking point of this year's Brit awards. Quick capsule summary of reaction: he cares so much about the country he asked a middle aged junkie with an eating disorder to read out a telegram instead of showing up in person.

[ZenArcade]

Old Tankie: is what you say just the West Lothian question, but at a continental level as opposed to a national level? Z

[TordelBack]

It's always amusing to see these things talked out.  I'd end all nation states tomorrow if I could.  A nested hierarchy of administrative units would do me just fine, starting at the street/townland level.  Sub-Regional-Scale Division 14 is the best Sub-Regional-Scale Division, can't stand all those Sub-Regional-Scale Division 13 bastards with their accents and attitudes.  But we can't go to war with them, because Regional-Scale Division 8 won't authorise the spend. Bastards.

[Old Tankie]

Hi Zen (hope I can call you Zen).  If the United Kingdom is going to remain as it is, the West Lothian question certainly needs to be sorted.  For example, how is it viable for Scottish MPs to be able to vote on changes to the English health service but they can't vote to change the Scottish health service?

I'm quite happy to be British, but I'm English first.  I believe in an English Parliament and if the only way to get it is to start with Scotland breaking away, then it's fine by me.  I think it's absurd that a country the size of England doesn't have its own Parliament.

[Frank]

I'd end all nation states tomorrow if I could.  A nested hierarchy of administrative units would do me just fine, starting at the street/townland level

This, basically. If there is a point to the EU, it's that once you have a working version of that in place for macro matters, there's no reason why the real decisions which affect your daily life can't be taken at a level which means your vote actually counts.

[JOE SOAP]

This, basically. If there is a point to the EU, it's that once you have a working version of that in place for macro matters, there's no reason why the real decisions which affect your daily life can't be taken at a level which means your vote actually counts.

And if you don't vote the way they want you to, they'll ask you to do it again and again until you get it right.

[Old Tankie]

Couldn't have put it better myself.     

[ZenArcade]

Old Tankie, I totally agree with you. The situation as it stands is absurd. There are intrinsic difficulties inherant in Scottish Independence taking place for parties both within the UK and indeed without.
Scotland as an Independant nation will be subject to all of the vicissitudes that entails...but with hard work and the use of intelligence there is no reason they cannot surmount them (God keep them that they will).
For England (and I'm not for a minute presupposing the political views of my follow squax in this thread) may well be faced with a continual conservative hegenomy.
The EU issue is farcical. How a political dream has turned into a nightmare; where founding ideals are subordinated if not prostituted  to greed, arrogance and unaccountability is staggering and shamefulm I must add I'm not of the UKIP camp here at all but that particular Temple is in serious need of someone to clear the moneylenders and shysters out! Z

[The Legendary Shark]

Independence for me or independence for nobody.

I'm basically with Tordels on this - independence begins at home.

[Colin MacNeil]

Re the 'myth' about permanent Tory rule if Scotland were to gain independence.

http://wingsoverscotland.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/

http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-useless-samaritans/

http://graphicalyes.blogspot.co.uk/2013/09/scotland-is-virtually-powerless-to-stop.html

The last two links can be found from the first link, but I thought I'd add them anyway.



Here's another interesting link.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/ukparties2010


Cheers

Colin

[ZenArcade]

Colin, interesting links and I'd be happy if I'm wrong in my view.
If I can say as an aside and as an old Simon Harrison fan, your work on prog 736's Firepower Dredd story is beyond compare. Z

[JayzusB.Christ]

Colin, interesting links and I'd be happy if I'm wrong in my view.
If I can say as an aside and as an old Simon Harrison fan, your work on prog 736's Firepower Dredd story is beyond compare. Z

I liked Chopper's death scene most of all; with the huge holes in his back.  If only it had been a death scene.

As an aside, I'm with Tordelback all the way on democracy at ground level.  I read a book by new-age billionaire Marc Allen, who suggests 'leaving J. Edgar Hoover behind' - in other words, flatten the hierarchy and let people make their own decisions; it's the people who do the work who know how it should be done.

[The Legendary Shark]

Spot on. Try running your own affairs though, as I am discovering, and the system doesn't like it. Personal freedom is anathema to our government, which instead touts freedom of choice as the only form of freedom one is allowed. And who presents us with the choices we are free to make?

Yep.