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Completely Self-absorbed Top 100 Comic Runs You Need to Read

Started by Colin YNWA, 29 October, 2023, 03:36:51 PM

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IndigoPrime

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 08 February, 2024, 07:44:32 AMthe struggle to see through the fan reaction to 'This is a classic and needs to be on the shelves' with what is actually commercially viable, would horrible for me!
One might surmise that all the noisy shouting for HC Case Files, for example, didn't exactly translate to sales, given that we only got one of the things. (Similarly, while I often see calls from the US that they'd buy Dredd or other 2000 AD titles in omnibus format, I suspect that would be maybe a few dozen copies sold and an awful lot of books sitting in warehouses.)

As for Y... I've read this one a few times. I have it in the same deluxe format as you. And I put it kind of on that tipping point Preacher sits on, although slightly closer to 'keep'. There are a lot of great moments in the series, but during my last re-read, I felt it hadn't aged terribly well, or I'd moved on from when I first read it. The book as a whole felt weirdly sexist quite often, for a title based on an almost exclusively female world. There were quite a few moments that felt quite cringeworthy.

I could never quite get the world building to work either. The disaster aspect made sense. But the rebuild felt too swift. I mean, the instantaneous removal of 'males' means an instantaneous collapse of the food chain. It's not just a case if "we can't eat beef now and should all go vegan". There'd be no pollinators. In fact, no insects at all. Cloning isn't going to cut it. It probably helps if you don't think about it too hard.

Broadly, though, I do recall liking the series – I mean, I must have given that I replaced my paperbacks with the deluxe editions. And while I know people disliked the ending, I thought that at least worked very well. That's more than I can say for quite a few things I've read of late. (I'm looking at you, Gideon Falls...)

broodblik

I enjoyed Y when I read it but for some reason I will never see it as a true classic. I think my mine problem was that later on it felt like it is just continuing for the sake of it (reminds me of ABC Warriors going on and on and going nowhere)
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

IndigoPrime

Mm. There was a sense of that. You quite often see series where they say they're doing X issues and so they damn well do them. I fear Saga might be heading the same way. It's quite refreshing when creators don't do that. Mignola wrapping up Hellboy when he was done, for example.

broodblik

True about Saga it might be they are aiming for some 100 plus episodes
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

PsychoGoatee

#259
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 February, 2024, 09:42:55 AM(Similarly, while I often see calls from the US that they'd buy Dredd or other 2000 AD titles in omnibus format, I suspect that would be maybe a few dozen copies sold and an awful lot of books sitting in warehouses.)

I think there's gotta be at least 100s of us US fans. :D But I do prefer the regular trade paperbacks to heavy hardcover omnibuses. Although I do like the new Strontium Dog hardcovers, just got the latest Portrait of a Mutant one. Mainly paperback for me though, lightweight works for me.

Great countdown as always! And even 2000AD titles that had kind of slid down my to-read list are being bolstered here and higher. I've never read Bad Company, not much Red Seas etc, so much great stuff to read. Been meaning to read Y too. For Saga, I just started it recently.


Colin YNWA

Quote from: PsychoGoatee on 08 February, 2024, 01:06:58 PM...But I do prefer the regular trade paperbacks to heavy hardcover omnibuses....

I'm just writing about that in the latest entry I'm typing up (#94 fact fans). Omnibus look lovely on the shelves but are a 'mare to read.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 February, 2024, 09:52:44 AMMm. There was a sense of that. You quite often see series where they say they're doing X issues and so they damn well do them. I fear Saga might be heading the same way. It's quite refreshing when creators don't do that. Mignola wrapping up Hellboy when he was done, for example.

This is defo true, in all media to be honest. All my fav shows ended before it was too late (though The Sopranos did tease us for a while in Season 6!). In comics its all the more important as they appeal to the collector in me and I've stuck with series long after I should have so I 'had them all' unless there is a conventient jumping off point. Both Vertigo in the past and Image these days seems to do all that really well. Creator, assuming they get going more often then not seem to nail the time to bow out.

There are of course exceptions. Dredd, Usagi Yojimbo and Bunny vs Monkey are diverse examples of series that seem to keep momentum and quality regardless of longevity. That's a rare beast though.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 February, 2024, 09:42:55 AMI could never quite get the world building to work either. The disaster aspect made sense. But the rebuild felt too swift. I mean, the instantaneous removal of 'males' means an instantaneous collapse of the food chain. It's not just a case if "we can't eat beef now and should all go vegan". There'd be no pollinators. In fact, no insects at all. Cloning isn't going to cut it. It probably helps if you don't think about it too hard.

I thought it was just mammals that died and insects were all good? I might be misremembering?

It will be interesting how I see the gender issues on a re-read, after even 6 years since I read this I've learnt a lot (look at ol' Woke me!) so I'm intrigued how this one would be impacted by a re-read.

IndigoPrime

QuoteThere are of course exceptions.

Indeed. And while Dredd has longevity, it's not nearly as consistent as Usagi Yojimbo. In fact, I can't think of another comic as consistent as that, in terms of sheer ongoing quality. (As for BvM, I'd like to do a full read on that at some point, assuming the 9yo will let me borrow her books. But even though that's a comic, my brain aligns it more with Peanuts than Usagi, even though that's in many cases arguably unfair – not least given the ambition Jamie Smart often shows in terms of the stories.)

As for formats, I'm a sucker for a HC, but my ideal would probably be the typical deluxe Image volume. No dustjacket (horrible things). Not too unwieldy. Outsized. Beyond that, the Hachette volumes are very nice, as are the Reckless ones. I do own some omnis, but they tend to be a bit much. And I will never understand the appeal of having everything under one cover. I'm much happier with eg my Hellboy Library Editions (which are frankly more than big enough) and my four Invisibles deluxe HCs, rather than getting that Monster-Sized Hellboy or the all-in-one Invisibles.

Regarding Y, I'm misremembering. Wiki argues that they have different sex chromosomes, and so I guess that future society will be eating a lot of fish and chicken. So not a complete collapse, but a partial one that would have interesting repercussions in the long term. If mammals are wiped out, the landscape of almost every country would change. Birds would presumably quite rapidly start to fill niches again. And while I recall in Y we saw society continue into the future and Yorick's old age, I don't remember quite how it was sustaining itself. (I'm assuming something something cloning. But there's no way that would be viable to retain more than a tiny number of people. You'd rapidly have severe issues as the people alive when the event happened got old and died, because there would be few to care for and replace them. Ultimately, I imagine Y in any reasonably realistic scenario has humans basically going extinct within a couple of generations.)

Colin YNWA

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 February, 2024, 01:28:06 PMIf mammals are wiped out, the landscape of almost every country would change. Birds would presumably quite rapidly start to fill niches again. And while I recall in Y we saw society continue into the future and Yorick's old age, I don't remember quite how it was sustaining itself. (I'm assuming something something cloning...

There's a different book that I'd really like that couold cover that as the rammifcations would be so far reaching on ecosystems and yeah a few hundred years down the line I like to think we'd have 'Death birds' back on the board! For Y it covers as much of that ground as the story needs, but is in no way forensic in its approach and by necessity hand waves a lot of stuff so as not to let the yarn get bogged down.

As for the end yeah something, something cloning sums it up.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 08 February, 2024, 01:28:06 PMAs for formats, I'm a sucker for a HC, but my ideal would probably be the typical deluxe Image volume. No dustjacket (horrible things). Not too unwieldy. Outsized. Beyond that, the Hachette volumes are very nice, as are the Reckless ones. I do own some omnis, but they tend to be a bit much.

Yeah I love a good hardcover but have a low tolerance for size. I have a Humanoids Bouncer collection (fun continental western along the lines of Blueberry - not on the list) and at 412 pages just about defines my limit (see #94 when it comes) BUT have lots of nice collections under that mark. My complete Bone Hardcover is an object to me rather than something I'd read - as it a thing of beauty, I have the series in various forms so don't need to read it.

For paperbacks I'll stretch a bit further I do look at my Usagi Yojimbo Saga collection which I picked up a while ago bit haven't quite made it to the top of the reading list yet) a little nervously at 600+ pages I wonder what they will be like to read. One day I'll take the plunge and think about collecting all the original floppies but that seems a while off yet!

IndigoPrime

With Usagi, I went full HC. So I have the second edition of the original books, and then the Dark Horse hardcovers. I'll admit I haven't read most of that though. (I do still have all the paperbacks, in a box in the garage. They need another home at some point, but I couldn't shift them on eBay last time I tried.)

Colin YNWA



Number 104 - X-Statix

Keywords: Peter Milligan, X-Men, Allred, Mass media, Social Media, Funny

Creators:
Writer - Peter Milligan
Art - Mike Allred (in the main, others join in but!)
Colours - Laura Allred (in the main see above)

Publisher: Marvel Comics

No. issues: 56 (to date, we might get more?)
Date of Publication: 2001 - 2023

Last read: 2023

Peter Milligan's fourth entry so far, putting him way ahead of anyone else. So it's fair to say I'm a big fan of his writing. BUT


Copyright - Marvel

will be his last entry for a while and he only has one more to go (I think). So one thing I need to consider here is why I like his work so much yet the bulk of what I like most by him is at the lower end of my list? I think this series will reveal some of that.

First things first I've labelled this X-Statix but it includes a number of different comics based around the same themes and ideas, teams and characters as they develop in the Marvel Universe. So included in my thoughts here are:

X-Force 116-129
X-Statix (ongoing) 1-26
X-Statix Presents - Dead girl 1-5
Giant-Sized X-Static
X-Cellent (vol. 1) 1-5
X-Cellent (vol. 2) 1-5

There are various other bits and bats - the character Doop has a mini or two for example, but this is the core of the material.

X-Statix actually started life as a revamp of X-Force after the original team was believed to all be killed a couple of issues before, with issues 114 and 115 being an epilogue of sorts (it would seem, I've not read any of the issues). Side note these later original X-Force comics were written by our own Ian Edginton so I'd imagine they have some merit, who knows? Anyway, back on track, the tables cleared, the scene is set for a relaunch, but I'm not sure that anyone was expecting the change to be quite like what happened. Joe Quesada had become Marvel's Editor in Chief a year or so beforehand and was really shaking things up. It's hard to imagine any title being changed quite so much as X-Force.

X-Force was born at the dawn of the pouches and big guns era of mainstream comics. Created by Rob Liefeld it was at the very vanguard of that 'gritty' 'tough' era. Now I'm sure in the subsequent 10 years or so it developed beyond that - as I say I've really not read much of the earlier X-Force material but it was still a mainstream mutant title in the X-verse and I believe they were still the most militant of the groups. The new team that appeared in X-Force 116, lead by Zeitgeist, the name tells you a lot, were a team of self-interested, media savvy, media hungry young 'heroes' driven by the need for exposure.

They tried to fight the same battle as previous X-Teams, but rather than do so as underground operatives, defending those that persecuted them, they did so in the glare of the media spotlight and courted popularity, quite successfully. This was the era of television pop shows that produced numerous manufactured bands (as ever it was) but those bands formed on televisions and selected by popular vote. The new X-force reflected this. They must have felt like polar opposites to long term fans and this was seen strongly in the letters column with many fans baulking at the change.


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Nowhere was this change better emphasised than in the art of Mike and Laura Allred. Prior to 2001 Mike Allred has established himself as a bit of an indie darling with Madman (which we may well talk about later in this list) and Red Rocket 7. X-Force was (almost) his first major work in the mainstream brought to the title by editor Alex Alonso who he had worked with at Vertigo. His art is vastly different to the hyper-realised, death by many lines, early 90s mainstream action comics from which X-Force had grown. Allred's pop-art, with clean beautiful clear lines, open to superb storytelling and a leftfield sense of design that is quite wonderful. It retains a real retro feel while remaining entirely modern and fresh.

It's a breath of fresh air when compared to even the great work of this time at Marvel, see my entry for Bendis Daredevil (entry 125) and Gotham Central (DC but ya know, entry 128) for how I view the art of this era. I should note very possibly incorrectly, but this is how I think of the art of the time from my exposure. It pops (pun possibly intended) off the page. Brims with energy and zeal, carries human interactions to perfection but is so, so clean and neat in the best possible way. The 'indie sensibility' to his character designs, the way he posed characters, with real drama but feeling entirely different to the traditional house style. Characters lounge, relax, they move naturally, though like pop stars there's a real glamour to things. His art has real charm while keeping all the melodrama and danger of a superhero title.

The colouring of his partner Laura Allred makes the art sing as well. In the early days of computer colouring she didn't fall into the trap of overusing effects or grading. She gives the art flat colours enhancing the retro tone of Mike Allred's art, yet just as he does, keeping things feeling modern and current with her colour choices. When computer effects are used they are done with perfect placement and they have real impact and express super-powers and other psychedelic elements of the stories with dynamism and in ways that I believe would have been new and exciting at the time.


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Mike and Laura Allred's art is a massive part of why I enjoy this series so much. It would seem a shame therefore that over both the X-Force and X-Statix ongoing runs there were a number of guest artists. When those guest artists are the likes of Darwyn Cooke, Duncan Fegredo, Paul Pope and Phil Bond, all coloured by Laura Allred to maintain a consistent through line, there really isn't much to complain about. Sure the series would have benefited by Marvel having the patience to wait for Allred, but Marvel was a monthly grind in those days so fill-ins of that quality are a cross it's a joy to bear! Overall the entire run of comics is an artistic triumph.


Copyright - Marvel

Having acknowledged the wonderful art it's time to talk about Peter Milligan. In doing that I need to put a little bit of context in as I'm going to attempt to unpick why so much of the work of his that I really like is so low down the list. Why is there only one (can you guess which) that breaks the top 100 (though I do wonder if on re-read others would make it?), yet so much in these early placings. In doing that there will be some emphasis on some of the elements of their work I enjoy less and this may come across a little negatively.

It's important therefore to remember that I LOVE Peter Milligan as a writer. He's one of my absolute favourites, hence having so many great comics on this list, keep in mind any comic on this list I think is really great. Not just good, but GREAT! There are a number of other titles by him that almost made it, he's had a run of IP generating minis over the last few years that have been various degrees of good. He's one of the few writers that I will always consider getting everything I see their name on.

Got it. I think Pete Milligan is a sensational writer... can I stop being defensive now and crack on with this?

In X-Statix Milligan created a rich and diverse cast of characters. They are wonderful. Tike Alcar, Mr Sensitive, U-go Girl, Dead Girl, Doop, Venus Dee Milo, Phat, Vivisector, Spike Freeman... I could go on, I really could. There are so many fascinating and original characters, quite unlike the cast of any other mainstream comic I can think of. Each one fresh and original. Each one is enhanced by being part of the ensemble, interacting with the others in ways that reveal them and make them grow as characters.

Yet sometimes they can feel a little forced and edgy. Made for dramatic tension and those interactions can sometimes read as a little unnatural, only sometimes, but it's there. They are very often unlikable. Now unlikable characters aren't a bad thing. I love so many unlikable characters, I've mentioned this before, but here they can be, well... just unlikable. A bit too cool for school, a bit too edgy, not people I actually want to spend time with, unlike many unlikable characters who I feel

'Well you know what, they might be a twat but it's fun being around them!'

People I imagine if I met them at a party I'd feel really self consciously uncool around. This is a trait that I've noticed before in his work, Lenny in Shade The Changing Man (position 131 on my list) is the example that strings to mind. There are others, sorry for picking you out Lenny. Characters I don't feel I fit in with and end up apologising for myself too. That is probably seen most in X-Statix. I love the fact there is such a cool, diverse cast of characters, he does wonderful things with them so often. Apparently X-Statix has Marvel's first gay kiss, astonishing it took until the 21st Century but there you go. It's just on occasion I don't enjoy hanging around with them as much as I do other characters.


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Mind for many of the characters this isn't a major problem as many meet quick unpleasant deaths. Zeitgeist and most of the team introduced in X-Force 116 don't make it out of that issue alive. Interesting side note X-Force 116 was the first Marvel comics since the early 70s Spider-man 'drug' issues to not carry the Comics Authority Code, something that marked the start of the end of that awful body.

As the series progresses many characters meet a fatal ending. This creates a wonderful sense of tension in the series. Imagine 'The Walking Dead' if it was as good as this. You genuinely don't know who will make it out any given issues, even characters you'd assume to be safe can be seen off. So overall this is a good thing, but does add to my sense that Milligan's writing can be cold, can feel a little sensationalist, it's not as human as my very favourite writers works. It puts a sense of being edgy over a sense of humanity at times. Again important to note it can have some really powerful, human moments, just often they can feel a little knowing and cynical.


Copyright - Marvel

That sense of sensationalism is no more apparent than in the curtailed, infamous Princess Diana storyline. For those that don't know Milligan and Allred were going to introduce Princess Diana into the series as a superhero. This makes perfect sense given how she craved publicity, while at the same time claiming to shun it and be fearful of the media's glare. So don't get me wrong I have absolutely no problem with the idea, in fact I think I would have loved it, I'm a big fan of criticism of our monarchy.

However others weren't so keen. The English press got hold of the storyline, creating a whirlwind of outrage at how a comic could so abuse 'The People's Princess'. I know the irony is staggering even for the English press, anyway. The issues were pulled and redone with Diana changed to Henrietta Hunter, a pop princess rather than the literal Princess. It was a thin veil drawn across the matter and the press quickly moved on to bullying immigrants or some such.

So, while this particular example didn't worry me at all. In fact I'd have applauded it, it does illustrate Milligan's ability to be too edgy and a little abrasive. And this is the reason a lot of Milligan's stuff isn't higher than it is. As said he can be a little too cool for school and not quite hit those human moments as well as others. While, as I have said already, being a wonderful writer and the vast majority of this work I really, really like.


Copyright - Marvel

X-Force and X-Statix told its story and even though cancelled before its time after 40 issues across both ongoing series it feels like it has a satisfying beginning, middle and end. With issue 26 of X-Statix it felt like a good time for the comic to end. The idea of a superhero team as media darling had been explored as far as really needed.

The creators have returned to their world on a number of occasions. X-Statix Presents Dead Girl being a particularly fine example. The mini parodies how comic books treat death as a revolving door very well.

The core theme of the series is robust enough though that the return in 2022 felt almost necessary. It isn't forced at all and feels entirely satisfying and indeed timely. It makes perfect sense to return to the ideas and characters in the age of the internet and the constant drive by people to create content to be consumed. The later X-Cellent minis, starting only a couple of years ago, deal with that perfectly. I do wonder if we will get another return at some point as media consumption and the drivers from creators to satisfy that and clutch at fame, takes its next significant shift. Will the next iteration of X-Statix be AI generated facsimiles of the current team? I wait with excitement to see if we get more as this is a truly great series and comfortably the best and most interesting of all of Marvel's many, MANY X-based mutants books. Something I will return to later in the list for the other (kinda) X-Men comic that makes my top 100(ish)*

*Which isn't an X-Men comic at all - wait until we get there to find out more!

Where to find it

As is so often the case Marvel's best comics get overlooked and there is little or no heat around these comics despite the masterful creative team. With a little patience you'll be able to pick these up in the aftermarket for next to nothing. It's what I did buying the bulk as back issues maybe 15 years ago and picking up the rest for bobbins over the following year or two. A series like this, both timeless and of its time is well served by having in the original floppies as the adverts and similar really place them in their context.

That said the usual online stores have these in a variety of collections. The X-Statix omnibus (which does include the X-Force issues) goes for silly money these days.

Wait long enough and I'm sure they'll get reprinted or a new edition. It's one of those series that while not a massive commercial success Marvel knows what they have and keeps returning too.

If you prefer digital you'll have no problem getting these as they are all available via Comixology - or Kindle as it now is!

There are also trade collections of the two recent X-Cellent mini-series readily available.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page

The fantastic Cartoonist Kayfabe provide an excellent analysis of X-Force 116 which introduced the concept.

The not as good, but still watchable Comic Tropes has a nice series overview.

My favourite Strange Brain Parts has a video too... but its a 30 second short so I'm struggling to justify including it! If you want a really quick succinct summary it's worth 30 seconds of your life surely!

Crushing Krisis provides a good overview with a reading order, that isn't really required, but hey its there.

There's a fair amount out there in this one so just a quick google search will get you other takes on the series.


What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list.

Barrington Boots

I've read this one! Or at least most of it.

I'm generally not a superhero fan, so when this came out I found it a very refreshing and interesting read. On a revisit, I found a lot of the things I liked about the first time around - such as the cynicism, the brutal violence, the joke names, the vapid characters and their propensity for meeting sudden deaths - to be the things I didn't like about it. It all felt a bit forced, which I think is part of the point - very few of these characters are likeable or relatable and it does feel like a superhero team that could be on instagram, which is brilliantly executed but also not really that fun to read about. Everyone is very zeitgeisty as well, so it's a weird mix of ahead of its time and of its time.

I think the art is fantastic.

Really good writeup though Colin and some really good and interesting points made that has made me consider anothe re-read, if I still have the comics - I'm going to search them out later!
You're a dark horse, Boots.

PsychoGoatee

Great read as always! I myself prefer other X-stuff, Allred I respect, bought a bunch of Madman trades etc, just not quite my thing. And the trying to be edgy and cold or off-putting thing you describe is not my fav. But I like hearing what other people enjoy about it, and vicariously I can appreciate it.

I'll take an operatic Claremont run for me.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 12 February, 2024, 10:30:47 AMI'm generally not a superhero fan, so when this came out I found it a very refreshing and interesting read. On a revisit, I found a lot of the things I liked about the first time around - such as the cynicism, the brutal violence, the joke names, the vapid characters and their propensity for meeting sudden deaths - to be the things I didn't like about it.

Quote from: PsychoGoatee on 15 February, 2024, 01:00:15 AMGreat read as always! I myself prefer other X-stuff, Allred I respect, bought a bunch of Madman trades etc, just not quite my thing. And the trying to be edgy and cold or off-putting thing you describe is not my fav. But I like hearing what other people enjoy about it, and vicariously I can appreciate it.

I'll take an operatic Claremont run for me.

I can defo see why folks don't like that cynical side of these comics. I enjoy it as the context in which they come makes sense as this series deals with the cynicism of mass media, but yeah it can be 'too cool for skool' at times.

As for the Claremont X-run I've got a post coming up about that at some point a little off yet...